If you're waiting for President Obama to stand up for the Unions, you need to remember

[ej510]

he is privatizing the school system. President Obama sides with the elite, because he needs money to get re-elected.

[AC_Mem]

1. I was told

that Union leaders did not want Obama involved and asked him specifically NOT to get involved.

And I heard this from someone who was pretty well connected. It shocked me, to be honest.

Annette

[CC]

8. Makes sense to me.

Right now the WI thing is a Republicans against the middle/working class. Obama steps in it becomes Obama and his union thugs. Fox Noise's storyline isn't making it in the rest of the country yet, why help them change the storyline? MSM would not need much of an excuse.

Every time I've seen some so called journalist try to get a union spokesperson to complain about Obama not being in WI the rep says they have talked and are happy with the support he has offered and happy with what he is doing.

[applegrove]

40. It doesn't shock me. By staying out of it, it doesn't allow fox to claim it is all a partisan

plot. Staying out of it allows the dreams and fight for rights of the protesters to bubble up to the mainstream.

[ehrnst]

53. Yes - They don't want the GOP/Fox to paint this as instigated or perpetuated by Obama or the Dems.

This is about the people of Wisconsin, and needs to be seen as such.

[deutsey]

54. Frankly, I'd rather see him stay out of it...what pisses me off is how the White House

allegedly quashed plans the DNC had for mobilizing support for what's going on in WI.

If the NYT report is accurate (and with their track record, who knows?), the WH crew deemed what's going on in WI a distraction.

Keep the cult of personality out of this grassroots movement, but, damn, it'd be nice once in a while to see the Democratic Party structure used for something other than fundraising.

[JuniperLea]

63. He wants this to be about the people...

And purely about the people. That is the only way to make it stick, and keep the dogs of NO from being able to point and howl.

[deutsey]

65. Still don't see why the organizing apparatus couldn't be mobilized to energize "the people"

Fuck the dogs of NO. They're going to bark no matter what we do. We need to stop being so fucking frightened by what they're going to do and start defining/defending OUR agenda.

And, who knows...that might even boost fundraising, which seems to be so damn important to the national Dem leadership.

[GeorgeGist]

59. What you heard was bullshit.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

60. Would you want Lieberman butting in?

:hide:

[craigmatic]

2. Charter schools are going to hurt the unions as much as this walker bullshit.

[fittosurvive]

5. Yes, but charter schools will help the children of parents who value education

and set high standards for their children.

[leftstreet]

6. Charter $chool$ = High $tandard$ n/t

[JVS]

7. LOL

[aquart]

9. Welcome to DU.

May your brief stay be a happy one.

I know it seems confusing sometimes, the way we disagree. But we believe in democracy not totalitarianism.

[fittosurvive]

17. I believe in the nonconformity that stimulates inventiveness

rather than that the status quo that demands conformity and stifles creativity.

Thank you for your kind wishes.

[RainDog]

23. so you think corporate culture encourages creativity?

LOLOLOL

you think corporate culture does not demand conformity?

your outlook on corporate-controlled education is a fantasy world.

[fittosurvive]

24. Well, that depends on the character of each incorporated entity.

Those who meet the needs of their patrons will be rewarded for their achievements. On the other hand, those who fail to develop and implement successful education techniques will be superseded by the aforementioned.

The objective is to allow for a wide variety of ideas and innovations to be considered, rather than to preserve the inflexibility of the status quo.

[ej510]

25. The reich wing is only interested in making our society dumber in

order to continue the charade.

[fittosurvive]

26. Well, if you let them, they will.

However, I believe most people want what is best for their children and as a result, they will reject those who have nothing to offer but "dumbness."

More choices, not less, is what a free society requires.

[RainDog]

27. the corporate view of education has harmed higher ed immensely

the idea that a professor has to produce work that turns a profit is a damaging concept to intellectual inquiry and free thought.

however, that has become the dominant mode in corporate America culture at this time.

honestly, I will gladly engage in a class action lawsuit against the govt or any school that is affiliated with any religious organization as a charter b/c I do not want my tax dollars to subsidize any religion. I find the idea of tax money going to pay for some baptist church school that indoctrinates children repulsive in the extreme - tho they are able to turn out good little cogs for the corporate world who don't question authority or the "facts" as are handed to them.

This is what makes me absolutely retch about this pretense that schools are the problem - if you took a poor child and put him or her into a middle-class family that did not have the pressures of a lack of health care, of poverty, of dangerous neighborhoods, of often ill-educated parents who cannot provide the level of help with homework - with parents who do not value reading or intellectual inquiry - who are, themselves, often the product of poverty - whether in a large city or a rural outback - you would see that the issue is not the school - it's the poverty that has gotten worse in this nation b/c of declining wages over the last 30 years, because of the massive accumulation of wealth in the hands of a few at the expense of the national commons - which includes schools.

If our tax structure were not such that Paris Hilton is a celebrity b/c she happened to pop out of a rich vagina - you'd have a better educational system.

The status quo is about the destruction of the middle class, not classrooms, and THAT is what has to change.

[ej510]

28. +1, if any of my tax dollars funds any private christian school or any religious school, I will join

you in a class action lawsuit.

[libmom74]

35. I wish I could K&R replies

because this reply deserves one.

[fittosurvive]

41. Actually, nothing could be further from the truth.

Since American universities are not bound by the monopolistic constraints that prevail in our system of lower education, we have the best universities in the world.

[Hannah Bell]

44. bullshit.

[RainDog]

58. actually, you have no idea what you're talking about

you obviously do not know about the ways in which corporate culture has invaded American universities and perverted research that is done at every single one of them. But if you were to talk to professors doing research at top-ranked universities, they could verify what I'm talking about.

and the right wing has been on a long crusade to attack tenure at universities, as well, in order to allow corporate and right wing influence to further pervert intellectual inquiry because they can't succeed in their propaganda when public intellectuals are protected from their pressure to lie.

this has nothing to do with rankings for universities (which, btw, were just released again this week and, yes, the U.S. has top-ranked universities and so do other nations...we're not the only nation with great universities.) Your "jingoism" is telling - this is a right-wing sort of response to any criticism of any corporate takeover endeavor.

the exploitation of graduate students at all of these universities is also shameful - but I doubt you know anything about that, either. some of the top-ranked universities also exploit asst. (new) professors, too, but I doubt you know anything about that, either.

your boilerplate comments don't bode well for the educational system you tout - these comments sound like robo-charter-school-bot.

you have nothing to say about addressing the real causes of massive social problems across the board, including education - and that says more about you than any words you may put up on this board.

[fittosurvive]

66. Actually, I know very well what I am talking about.

My wife, who is an associate professor at one of the original "Public Ivies," has often described her dean as a whore for corporate $$$.

Nevertheless, despite the "invasion" you described, she has always pursued her research autonomously, without restraints or conditions. Don't misunderstand; I am not suggesting that donations offered with "no strings attached" are always as they are publicized; but it is clear to us (and her dean) that they are indispensable with respect to the advancing the realm of academia.

So, while you may view corporate participation as a negative, the unbiased and discerning members of academia are quite adept at utilizing them without compromising their principles.

You make it clear that you have a great deal of contempt for people who see the world differently than you. That is unfortunate; because the narrow-minded character of your beliefs is founded upon the stereotypical biases that limit your ability to consider the possibility that incorporation does not always equate to evil.

Fortunately, there are many innovative and creative ideas being considered by those who are not bound by the preconceived notions of others. And while I do not advocate ending the concept of public education, unlike you, I do not fear the implementation of ideas by those who are sincere in their intent to improve it.

[RainDog]

67. LOL

you are so full of shit.

...it's "narrow-minded" to object strenuously to corporate control of public institutions that are integral to democracy?

goodbye.

few here are buying the bullshit you're trying to peddle.

My ex is also at a public ivy and the dozens and dozens of professors with whom I have been acquainted for decades know, if you're talking about the hard sciences - you're lying.

[fittosurvive]

69. It is narrow-minded to make stereotypical indictments of each and every incorporated entity..

It would be naive not consider the possibility that corporate donors are seeking to manipulate scientific research. But I believe their odds are limited by the integrity of professors whose very lives are defined by their research.

It's all about checks and balances...and rejecting the stereotype that all corporations are evil.

[RainDog]

70. you surely aren't honestly this ignorant, I hope

I was referring to charter schools - corporately-owned education. I'm also talking about paying tax dollars to fund religious indoctrination.

You don't know what I'm talking about vis a vis hard sciences research when you talk about corporate donors, either. I'm talking about the type of research that is done and for what purpose.

You want to continue to push the propaganda.

It is not saying that all corporations are evil to note the difference b/t the common good and shareholder profit. You can keep telling yourself you're not harming this nation with this neoliberal bullshit - but, as I noted, you won't find many people naive enough to fall for it here.

[DireStrike]

30. Separate and unequal

More for those that can pay more. Stimulate inventiveness, as much as you can afford to.

After all, you don't want your children touching those filthy gutter rats.

[ej510]

31. It is disgusting witnessing democrats dismantling the public school systems in

this country. You expect it from repukes, but democrats?

[RainDog]

33. charter schools are end runs around separation of church and state

for some and a way to pretend that if only parents "care" their children will not have educational issues - in spite of the reality of special needs and learning disabilities and a current system that forces teachers to pay for their own classroom supplies.

it is disgusting to pretend that teachers are the problem when they are paid so little for doing so much. in other western democracies, teachers are paid good salaries and are respected members of the intellectual community.

in Europe, teachers hold masters degrees in their subject areas. Here, people who have demonstrated ability in a certain field are discouraged from teaching because so many hold the profession in such low regard.

Maybe if people didn't pretend that "innovation" by corporate ownership was "innovative" then we'd have better schools - and if the religious right didn't raise holy hell every time someone wants to talk about real science, and if the religious right didn't make concerted efforts to dumb down textbooks so as not to offend their delicate sensibilities that cannot accept the reality that the earth was not created in 7 days, that Jefferson was integral to the founding of this nation, that some children have two moms or two dads and most of us ACCEPT that this is b/c nature, all of nature, demonstrates that homosexuality is part of the natural world, not some human aberration - then maybe our schools would be more "innovative" too.

[ej510]

39. The religious right has done a phenomenal job of getting the government to fund

their programs. Hell, I still fed up about the faith based initiative. Religion has no place in a democracy. It is suppose to be that individuals personal belief system. Someone religious belief should not be funded by me.

[Hannah Bell]

43. yeah, those creative charter schools where the teachers read from scripts.

[obxhead]

10. Charter schools will hurt the children of parents who value education

and set high standards for their children, but can not afford to send their children to charter schools.

We need solutions for all children.

[ej510]

13. Charter schools are private institutions subsidized by the taxpayers.

Charter schools are around to create low paying teaching jobs by busting the teachers union.

[fittosurvive]

14. I completely agree that we need solutions for all children.

However, it is a fairly simple matter to address the needs of parents who care--just give them the freedom to choose and they will figure the rest out for themselves. Once that problem out of the way, educators will be free to concentrate on how to educate the children of parents who do not care or understand the value of education.

The status quo can no longer be allowed to block the paths of those who seek higher standards.

[ej510]

15. The answer to the Charter school question is to build more public schools

and make class sizes no bigger than 12-15 students.

[obxhead]

16. So, only the parents that can afford charter schools

are the ones who care?

[fittosurvive]

19. Vouchers can render that line of reasoning null and void.

[obxhead]

21. They do no such thing.

Vouchers may help slightly, but in no way render that reasoning void.

Transportation issues alone can make charter schools impossible for many students to ever take part.

[Hannah Bell]

45. you're a veritable font of bullshit.

[Angry Dragon]

64. Thanks for the laugh

Not laughing at you
I agree with you

[Erose999]

56. Who gets a voucher and who doesn't? How do vouchers encourage competition? I just don't see it doing

any good.

[WinkyDink]

12. Really? And you know this how? Or do you refer to the militaristic discipline?

[fittosurvive]

22. I am not 100% sure about much at all.

However, it is clear to me that a wide variety of options is superior to a narrow, "this is the way we have always done it" mindset and course of action.

[EFerrari]

18. LOL

[mmonk]

20. Like the learning disabled?

They were nicknamed segregation academies during their inception for a reason.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

34. there isn't much evidence to support that.

:shrug: It's a nice thought but doesn't happen very often....

[Hannah Bell]

42. bullshit. unmitigated.

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. !!!!!

:wtf:

[Scuba]

51. And punish everyone still in public schools who will be left ...

... with the costs to educate all the Special Ed kids. Most (all?) charter schools have been refusing to accept any special ed students.

[Erose999]

55. Charter schools will help the parents who value the Whiteness of their childrens education.

Private schools and religious schools are big here in the South, ad have been ever since integration.

[Scuba]

61. Plus they don't have to look at all the "creepy special ed kids" n/t

[Angry Dragon]

62. UMMM

:popcorn:

[Bluebear]

68. LOLOL

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. "going to"?? They already have!!

My district closed 40% of its schools last year, mainly due to declining enrollment because of charters. And not a one of those charters is union.

[Blue Owl]

3. Carrying on the wayward dimson's privitizin'

Excuse me, but can we try NOT reaching out to the Republicans as they kneecap our country again and again?

[ej510]

4. He believes in the privatization of schools. He ran on it and picked Arne Duncan to execute it.

[aquart]

11. But how else is Neil Bush to make a living?

[dflprincess]

29. He's not worried about getting reelected. He sides with the elites

because he's looking forward to a very comfortable retirement and doesn't care if it starts in 2013 or 2017.

Look how well Clinton has done since he left office.

[Rex]

32. Evidently he is going to let the TSO unionize.

They have nothing to bargain about, but hey it IS a union!

[ej510]

36. Yeah, the only thing they get to do is say we're a union. Defeats the purpose.

[Rex]

37. Yeah but when has that ever stopped anyone?

Defeating the purpose seems to be all the rage.

[Starry Messenger]

38. I'm not and yes he is.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. If he really wanted to help unions, he would have pushed EFCA through

His silence on that speaks volumes.

[blindpig]

50. If he had really wanted to help the unions....

he would have at least attempted to get rid of Taft-Hartley when he had good majorities.

[stillwaiting]

49. He sides with the elite because he personally identifies with the elite.

They are his friends, advisors, and the very people he surrounds himself with daily, and I really don't think he cares one whit whether he gets re-elected. He's set for life, and is ensuring the elite's agenda gets forwarded. Period.

His re-election serves to shut out anyone who would be a threat to the status quo and the continuing consolidation of the wealth, income, and resources by the top 1%.

This is not to say that I would prefer a Repub. in power. For social reasons alone.

On economic policy, we will continue to widen the inequality gap. Even with Obama in power. Eventually, we will have our Egyptian moment. Obama is ensuring its inevitability.

[ehrnst]

52. Walker is trying to implicate Obama in the recall effort - the GOP wants Obama to jump in.

That way they can portray this as Obama trying to engineer the coup of a Republican governor, instead of what it is - the people of Wisconsin resisting Walker by their own volition.

[The Backlash Cometh]

57. He takes money from corrupt trial lawyers too.

This is problematic for anyone who wants to return fairness to government.