Has anyone here lived in Bed-Sty or Cabrini Green?

[Sonoman]

Has anyone here ever slept on the floor - every night - to keep from getting nailed by a stray round? Have you ever thrown yourself under a parked car when the shit hit the fan? Have you ever run for your life?

Have you ever lived in an environment where every single adult you know is caught up in the legal system?

I think that the great majority here have led pretty soft, white-bread lives (apologies to those who have not).

Just curious...

Sonoman

[carterbob1]

1. No, but...

Back in the early 1980s, I had some friends at college who had grown up in the Cabrini Green housing project and some of the adjacent areas off of nearby Division Street in Chicago. They talked at length about their experiences growing up there, and it was definitely some pretty rough stuff that they went through on a regular basis compared to the mostly middle class subdivision where I grew up downstate in Springfield, Illinois.

[Berserker]

2. No but

once during a tennis match I scraped my knee and the club doctor used a white towel to wrap it. Is that what you mean by white-bread? It was pretty hard to walk to my condo after that. But I did make the party later that night. Thank god for my limo driver he's a real hoot but I think he likes me too much (giggle). Ta Ta

[Sonoman]

4. That is pretty much what I expected.

Pretty much...

Sonoman

[Berserker]

6. Lighten up

I was joking. But I think the term white-bread sucks and is racist.

[bobbolink]

9. Live in hell and then live in your car, then YOU "lighten up"

Insensitivity is ever soooooo attractive.

[Sonoman]

10. I love you, bobbolink....

I have followed you for a long, long time.

You know how it works.

Ya gotta bounce off the sidewalk, sometimes.

Otherwise, it's all just padding, isn't it?

Much love,
Sonoman

[bobbolink]

14. Awwww......

:pals:

[HEyHEY]

20. No, here's where we're supposed to feel guilty because of what we had no control over.

The OP's smug attitude and veiled insults are pretty lame.

[Sonoman]

27. I posted this in response of another thread...

basically, if you cannot stand the heat, get the fuck out of the kitchen.

Have you hung out, much?

Really?

Sonoman

[blueamy66]

26. Yeah, and I've driven by Cabrini Green

and haven't had to dive under my car or steal one....whatever

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. Similar places early in my life. That is why am so hard over in support of the 2nd amendment

in terms of self defense for the poor and minorities. Those places show the racist and classist nature of gun control in the starkest of terms.

[Sonoman]

5. If I could add to that, I would....

but I can't.

The deal is, all of these (whatevers) have no fucking idea.

It is hard, out there.

Sonoman

[bobbolink]

7. You are right. NO. FUCKING. IDEA.

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. OK Carlos

:rofl:

Still signing your posts I see.

[Sonoman]

12. My name is Jose Jemenez...

I just call myself Carlos.

I sign my paintings and I copywrite my songs.

And I sign my meanderings on this site.

You did not answer the question.

And I have to tell you, a_m, that I have been around here for a very long time.

I hold your values and insight on a par with blm.

And, in my opinion, that is Pretty High Cotton.

Sonoman

[closeupready]

44. Completely agree.

nt

[leftstreet]

11. Anyone here lived in Central Park West penthouses?

:shrug:

[bobbolink]

13. Are you offering one?

:rofl:

:hi: :pals: :hi:

[leftstreet]

15. hehe

:o

[bobbolink]

16. I take that as a "yes".

When do I get the keys?

:bounce:

[Bryan]

17. No, I've had an exceptionally soft middle-class life

Whitebread candy-ass all the way. My father did time, but even that was for white-collar crime, if you'll forgive the term of art.

If I may ask, is there a particular hypothesis that has moved you to ask this question, and is it being borne out by this thread?

[Sonoman]

18. Yeah, there is, Bryan...

On DU, there is just a whole lot of goddamned idiocy when it comes to living hard.

I think that most of these folks have led an ideological life, not in the real...

I was simply trying to test the waters...

Sonoman

[Bryan]

19. I thought that might be the case

I appreciated your OP; it gave me a chance to think about the scope of what I don't know I don't know.

[bobbolink]

37. And I appreciate that. An open mind, willing to accept other concepts.

That's pretty rare. :yourock:

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Not to that extreme

but incoming fire is not fun.

I still jump. ok fall, to the ground, flat or go flat on walls... been over a decade.

[REP]

22. Used to play 'name the caliber' nightly at my old apartment due to the constant gunfire

But no, I didn't qualify for subsidized housing because I don't have children (and I didn't live in NY or Chicago, but Miner Court had a reputation nearly as bad and, or a while, I lived near it). I've had to fight off attackers walking home (poor public transportation and no car). For a year or so I had no fixed address. Things are much different for me now, but you can take your foot of your mouth now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. I used to play that game

during shootouts...

:-)

I scared a friend...

POP, I go flat against the wall, then go .38

Guess what it was? a .38

[ej510]

23. I've been shot at three times in my life and have multiple friends and

family members shot to death. A good friend of mine was shot in the face point blank rahge with a mac-10 in Richmond, CA he was only 16. My cousin was shot death at his friends candlelight vigil.

[bobbolink]

38. ouch. Sorry, ej510. That is so hard.

I appreciate you talking about this.... I'm beginning to understand your compassion.

:pals:

[Morning Dew]

24. I thought there were only four Yorkshiremen. n/m

[Raine]

28. No, I've always led a pretty soft, white-bread life

as far as physical amenities are concerned. Lots of family tramas and dramas but that's awhole nother thing.

[hlthe2b]

29. Nope... but spent a little time in Baltimore....

So, the area and the horrific societal woes depicted in The Wire, is not news to me.

[blueamy66]

30. Can you define

"caught up in the legal system"?

Does that mean that they have ALL broken the law and are being subject to the consequences?

Just asking....

[ej510]

31. My brother's friend was shot in the back and in the face in my brother's driveway.

[ej510]

32. My brother's girlfriend's cousin was shot to death at his front door.

My friend was a shot three times in the back of the head over a girl he had sex with.

[blueamy66]

35. And when does he start his prison term?

???

[bobbolink]

39. Nobody else seems to be able to say it so I will... I'm am so sorry.

I can't even imagine what that does to a person.

thank you for being here, and for sharing your life.

:pals:

[Gormy Cuss]

33. "Subject to the consequences" is the key.

There are no remands to private hospitals for substance abuse, no fines or probation in lieu of jail when one can't afford a good lawyer. What gets written off as a minor indiscretion in middle class areas is treated as a gateway crime among lower income youth and they are incarcerated.

Just telling...

[blueamy66]

36. I understand.

But we all make choices.

I've been arrested...done time.....never could afford a lawyer. I now make better choices in life.

If dumb shit people wouldn't just give birth to kids like they grow trees, grass or flowers, then alot of this tragic bs wouldn't occur.

[Gormy Cuss]

40. Some choices are better informed than others.

Simply chalking up the difference in law enforcement involvement to making better choices is naive. I haven't been arrested or done time but many, many of my childhood neighbors, friends, and relatives have and it messed up their chance for "better choices" in perpetuity.

[blueamy66]

41. What?

Yes, making choices is very important.

I realize that having a felony on your record is tough....mine was only a misdemeanor...but I have made a lifestyle change and hope to never be in the same situation as I was a few years back.

I think that many people make excuses for their behavior...

[Gormy Cuss]

45. I'll spell it out for you.

First off, too often law enforcement will lower the boom in low income communities for offenses that would get a warning in better heeled areas.

If you also have the misfortune to live in an area controlled by gangs or other crime entities your ability to avoid breaking the law is constrained by the pressure from such criminals, and by constrained I mean threats of bodily harm or death.

Secondly, after you've been arrested the outcome is heavily influenced by the amount of legal power you can buy. It's most clear with drug possession and sale cases. If your lawyer can prove that you have the means for intensive in-patient rehab and counseling the charges will go away as long as you keep your nose clean during probation. In some states it's called "filing" -- the person does not show up as convicted unless they break probation.

Third, if your lawyers aren't able to get you off the charges and you do have a felony drug arrest on your record, you may need to bide your time for a few years before going back to court to have the conviction expunged. Your changes of successful expungement increase dramatically with the amount of money you have.

I could go on, but I hope you see what I'm getting at. The criminal justice system is, unfortunately, rigged based on income. Simply saying that low income people need to make better choices misses the big picture.

[blueamy66]

48. Okay. I understand.

When I was arrested, I told the judge that I couldn't afford a lawyer. He made me fill out a financial app or something.....he looked at it and said that I made too much money to get a PD...then I told him that I would have to "wing it" if he wouldn't give me a PD....I knew the ins and outs of the legal system....so he gave me a PD for $200. I would have still gotten the same sentence with or without the PD.

My degree is in Criminal Justice...I know what happens. But I also know about choices. I made bad ones.

I'll bow out now....cause I think we are on the same page.

[Bunny]

34. Still doesn't justify raping an 11-year old girl.

[H2O Man]

42. My brother-in-law

grew up in Bed-Sty. I've brought him to the reservation. There are lots of tough places in America.

However, the individual who is the lone victim of the only homicide in a "safe" community is just as dead as the victim in the most violent neighborhood.

Taking a closer look at violent neighborhoods is more productive without a chip on one's shoulder, or a self-righteous tone. There is entirely too much of that nonsense in the national discussion already.

[closeupready]

43. Yes, to several of your questions.

nt

[Lyric]

46. Not those exact places, but yes.

Believe me, I know hard living. Of course, our version of "hard" had a lot more to do with starvation and hand-to-hand brutality, and less to do with guns and bullets. In the West Virginia trailer park where I come from, people beat each other to death because bullets are expensive and needed for shooting things that you can EAT. A crowbar, on the other hand--well, that's something you only have to buy once.

As for all the adults being caught up in the legal system--are we counting CPS as part of the legal system? Because the answer would be yes, if that's the case. Pretty much every adult I knew was either in trouble with the law or in trouble with CPS. Poor people tend to use CPS as a weapon against each other, because they know that if CPS comes to investigate, they are NOT going to like what they find. Not abuse most of the time, but "neglect". Poverty pretty much ALWAYS goes hand-in-hand with some kind of legal neglect. Sometimes the power is off. Sometimes there's no running water. Sometimes there's no food in the house. Sometimes all four kids are sleeping in one double bed with their Mom. It was different for everyone, but one thing was always true: if CPS came to your house, they would inevitably find SOME reason to put your family into the system forever.

The ones in trouble with the criminal justice system were usually for things like bad checks, drugs, child abuse, child neglect, driving without a license/insurance/registration/whatever, or petty theft. But we had our violent offenders too. My best friend from childhood lost her virginity when three guys who lived on the other side of the trailer park got her drunk, took her into the back bedroom, and took turns raping her. She was 14, they were all in their 30's. She never told her parents, never reported it to anyone, and now she's one of those most damaged, distrusting, and sad people that I know. She has three kids now by an alcoholic man who beats her, and she still lives in the exact same trailer park that we grew up in. She hardly speaks to anyone outside of her own house anymore, but I keep trying.

And of course, my Dad was beaten to death by a couple of coked-out rednecks who were supposedly giving him a ride to the VFW bar. They bought and sold drugs while Dad was in the car, and then realized that he could a "witness" to this, so (in their drunken, idiotic logic) they decided that they had to "get rid" of him. So they drove him up on top of a hill, beat his head in with a crowbar, and tossed him into the woods to die.

It's a different kind of brutality, sure. It's a different kind of fear. But in the end, maybe it's not that different after all.

[deaniac21]

47. I lived in a pig sty for a couple of years.