If We Are Living In A Feudal Based Economy, Then We Will See Mass Migration Out of the U.S.

[Yavin4]

I've been reading several progressive columnists, thinkers, and economists describe the current state of our economy as a feudal based economy in that American labor works to repay debts which is a long term losing battle because wages are declining. Thus, American labor is becoming more and more like indentured servants.

In feudal based economies, the members of the population that can move to other nations in order to avoid their debts, do just that. These tend to be the better educated, more industrious members of the population. If you're a middle class family with student loans, credit card debts, a house under water, children to raise, and you're under or unemployed, why not gather whatever meager resources you have and move to another nation wherein you can start fresh?

Yes, emigration is difficult and most nations are hostile to new immigrants, but compared with an ever declining standard of living with no hope of it ever getting any better, how bad will emigrating to another nation seem to be in comparison. The bottom line is that the American standard of living is in complete free fall with no hope of recovery.

[LiberalLoner]

Well maybe they will build a big wall around our country to keep us from

escaping, like they built around Berlin in the early 60's. I heard something about McCain wanting some wall to be built down south. Walls work to keep populations out - or in.

[rucky]

6. No-fly list.

Nobody really knows how you get on or off of it.

[hobbit709]

1. If you're one of the serfs you can't afford that option.

[Yavin4]

7. The Better Question Is, Can You Afford to Stay?

The savings in health care costs between living in the U.S. vs. living in Canada alone would trigger the move.

[hobbit709]

11. Can't sell your house cause it's underwater

Have no savings because they've gone to living expenses, have an old car that won't make the drive and not enough money to survive on in Canada-assuming they will let you in. It's not "can you afford to stay", it's can you afford to live. If you are just short of living in a cardboard box under the overpass how are you going to anyplace that will take you.

The people you are defining are what's left of the middle class-not the poor.

[Yavin4]

14. If You're Living in a Cardboard Box in America....

does it not make sense to live in a carboard box in Canada where they have National Health Insurance? Also, how much money does a bus ticket to Canada costs anyway? Hey, what's one more piece of debt that you cannot pay?

As for establishing residency in Canada, once you're there in-country, it gets easier to establish citizenship.

[LiberalLoner]

22. This might be something many young US'ers should learn about...n/t

[notesdev]

2. I do love this country

but I have to admit that applying for political asylum elsewhere has crossed my mind more than once... having been involved in that process for others I'm pretty sure that any American citizen could make a solid claim on that basis, political considerations aside.

[Boojatta]

3. There has been migration out of various countries by people who periodically send money back home.

[RKP5637]

4. I still think a lot of Americans have their head in the sand as to what's occurring. n/t

[LiberalLoner]

5. Yup. I think so too. n/t

[LiberalLoner]

8. Ever see that movie "Tommyknockers" by Stephen King? Remember the people and

animals being hooked up and used as batteries - drained dry and in terrible pain the whole time from it?

I see that as a metaphor for what the U.S. is becoming for most of us.

[mainer]

9. but where will they go?

to Mexico?

[Yavin4]

12. Mexico. Costa Rica. Canada. Possibly Europe.

All over.

[ananda]

10. This is basically a global trend.

That's the problem.

[EFerrari]

13. Yep. No matter where you go, there you are. n/t

[DBoon]

15. didn't a lot of European immigrants come here to avoid indentured servitude?

nt

[treestar]

16. That'll be a relief to Lou Dobbs

But I do not see it happening. Many people still want to come to the U.S.

[pitohui]

17. boy are you in for a rude awakening

middle class people who are under/unemployed are not welcome anywhere and won't be middle class in another country
if they choose to enter another country illegally to steal services

i have family members who have emigrated, they are SUPERBLY qualified with higher degrees/education/experience and GREAT jobs

nobody wants our losers, nobody

look at the qualifications to get into canada sometime and wake up, canada wants YOUNG people, not old people, no middle aged people, not sick people-- you are not emigrating to canada, not legally you're not

if you're SUPERBLY qualified you wouldn't be on the internet bitching abt how your life/economy is in free fall, i'm afraid i'm making some judgments here but i know i'm right

you want to emigrate? EDUCATE yourself in a useful skill and a multiple of languages, then get out there and "just do it"

emigration won't be an option for the tired or the sick

as one of the sick and middle-aged, instead of bitching that there's no hope and we're all gonna die, i think i'm just gonna try to keep moving forward...to hell w. those who wanted obama to clean up the whole reagan/bush mess in under 10 minutes...for most people your best chance to succeed at life is the place you know with the people you know and the connections you have...if the people you already know don't like you and won't help you why will canadians love you better? maybe look into your own problems first and then think about moving

[Yavin4]

21. I'm Doing Just That

I have a Master's degree, and I am proficient in software development. I am studying another language, and I am saving my money for a move to another country sometime in the 2020s.

People the world over move to other countries all of the time. Yes, it's difficult, but do you want to starve here or have a chance at a full life somewhere else?

It's your choice.

[galileoreloaded]

24. People will starve everywhere else WAY before they do here.....

global collapse comes, there is NO place safer than the US.

Innumerable workups on this out there. Europe, Latin America, and part of the US will burn for sure, but Asia (includes India) would be about the only place that has the cultural infrastructure to survive. You know why? because the majority of their populations still live very simply and are generally very conservative.

And they hold their wealth in gold and other tangibles.

it's funny, our "advanced" society is purely unsustainable at its core.

[Recursion]

18. Wait. In feudal economies you can't move at all

Particularly if you're poor, but both poor and rich are legally tied to the land. The land "owner" (in most feudal societies all land was owned by the monarch) pledges military service to the monarch and in return is allowed to live in his castle. The serfs pledge yoeman labor for the season and then in the off-season can either farm for themselves or do boonwork for the lord for cash. But nobody gets to move anywhere; that's why cities had so much trouble getting off the ground.

Professor Tofts of the University of Manchester puts it like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16RZqXXfcjg

[pitohui]

19. well you know there you go...trying to put that fancified elitist LOGIC out there

ha!

[girl gone mad]

23. Serfs fled quite frequently..

often in large numbers.

Google "Razin's Rebellion", for example.

Sometimes lords fled, too.

[Better Believe It]

20. Wall Street and big business don't base themselves on a feudal economy.

But that doesn't mean that people won't leave the United States for Canada in order to have health care even without the opportunity to find jobs.