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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:46 AM
Original message
No more.
In 1934, the repukes, headed up by banker prescott bush, tried to over throw the US government.

If it weren't for good Americans like Ret. Gen. Smedly Butler, they might have succeeded.

And that is what is happening today.

This isn't repukes over dems, this isn't left vs. right. This is what it should be called, The Rich against everyone else.

And with that, the extreme right wing and the repukes have become willing participants believing that they will get a piece of the pie.

They couldn't be more wrong.

We are seeing the willful march to corporate control of everything. And the right wing stooges are holding open the door. Little do they know, it will eventually get slammed in their faces.

The rich will dictate what we can and can not do. They will tell us how long we can work, they will tell us how and when to have kids (Oh your pregnant? Sorry but your fired), the return of child labor (because when you are on the street, your kids will now have to help support you and the family, because you were fired for having that same child in the first place), the return of massive deregulation that would make Upton Sinclare's, "The Jungle" look like a nice trip to the grocery store, no more overtime, no more health care (forget about affordable), no more Workman's comp (tort reform anyone? It will be on steroids), no more unemployment insurance, no more SS, no more Medicare nor Medicaid, and on and on it goes.

Because those are "overhead" to the rich. Money which could otherwise go into their pockets.

We are just tools to them. Cogs in their grand design of a sweat shop disney land. Where when one hapless worker fails, another is waiting to jump right in his or hers shoes. And that hapless worker? To the streets, to the poor house or to the debtors prison. Which I might add, will be corporate run for profit. So you lost your paying job and now you have to work for nothing while still doing that same work.

Back in 1934 FDR knew what was happening. He saw in the American people the good and the hardworking. The people who have been put down for so long for want of profit, that he put forth the New Deal with in weeks of him being sworn in to his first term.

He laid the ground work for SS and unemployment insurance. He knew that a person who gets simple respect is productive person. And if that person, is old and can no longer work, that there was at least something to keep them going. And to the unemployed on the soup and bread lines, they could have a few bucks to float them until they could find another job.

FDR was a charismatic individual who understood that it's people who drive society, not corporations.

The rich then as they do now, didn't like these "social welfare" programs. Back then, the Dems controlled the house and senate for years with a very healthy majority. The rich had to sit idle and slowly build while at the same time tear down. Today, we have lost the house and have a very slim majority in the senate. We have a president who states he's for the people but appears to be more of a corporate glad hander than a worker supporter.

Rich fail to understand something fundamental, when you treat people like shit, people hate you. They run their corporations with the worker at the bottom of the list. And when a worker is under paid, under appreciated and is not given the basic respect any human deserves, is it any wonder when that hard working person gets pissed off? To the rich corp owners it is. To them, they can't wrap their heads around it.

They think that everyone should be thankful for having a job. Just a job and nothing else. No OT, no health care, no benefits of any kind.

But there is the rub, even when most people work for a bastard, they still work hard, why? Because your average working person is generally a moral person with a good work ethic. They might not like the bastard, but they still have to live with themselves and knowing that they put in a good days work, regardless of the circumstances, sometimes is all that gets someone through the day regardless of how little they get paid.

And the repuke corp owners know this and exploit it. They laugh at our hard work, they laugh at our ethics and morals. They toy with our beliefs. They think we are just stupid prols with no business mind or understanding of "how things really work".

Oddly, we know how "things really work" better than they realize.

We know how to balance budgets with almost non-existing money. We know at the end of each month we can not have a deficit. We know what "hard discussions" are. They are either eating or paying the light bill, they are either paying the medical bill or driving slower because we can't afford to fill up the tank.

The rich corps haven't a clue as to how well we really know.

While they like to say it's all about business, let me tell you something, they are so full of crap.

They like to say, "in business, it's never personal". To them, their money is as much a part of their life as is major organ is to us.

They like to "stay above the fray" never to dirty their hands with the problems of the masses. They intellectually and emotionally remove themselves from the plight of the poor and middle class working folks, because, if they actually looked into the plight of the people, instead of making half assed excuses as to why people are poor, they would have to examine themselves. And as we all know, narcissists and sociopaths never do that, because it would highlight their massive short comings.

They would see themselves as the ugly blight they are on society.

We the people have been sitting down and taking this bullshit far too long.

This is something that the rich bastards thought would continue. Feed us more bullshit, stuff us with more crap and lies. Divide us and conquer us.

There are rumblings in this nation folks. It's not stopping. People are waking up and and are beginning to raise their voices. They rich are frightened. You can see this by how hard they are pushing back. They know once the scales of their bullshit has been removed they are in deep shit.

No more, I'm not shouting that. I'm just stating the obvious.

Say it with me. And say it every day. Make a sign. Walk with the unions. Protest. Never stop. Make the rich worry.

No more.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. kick to keep you on top
great post.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
89. +1
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. FDR was empowered because he had "the People" behind him.
I wish we were united together for the sake of self-preservation.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. FDR had the people behind him united. Today, we have corporations united behind
two parties. 'We the people' got left out.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Its not even corporations but the corporate media that is the far worst enemy
If Faux news and the other corporate media was no longer around, the majority of the people would be forced to think for themselves and would vote in their best interest instead of against it. FDR did not have to deal with this corporate media and if he did, people here would be criticizing him no "not doing enough progressive stuff" as well.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Very good point!!! n/t
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. You know, that has been said over and over for years here.
Lets just accept it as a given, and decide how to work around it.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I don't think you can work around it
nothing will change until the Media is either forced to truly be fair and balanced or when the media is destroyed.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Good. Then we're screwed and we can stop talking about it.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I know...
some people don't get it and would rather give up before the fight begins.

cheers to you and all the good you do here on DU. :)
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Thank you for the kind words, Javaman! That means more than you know!
You know... I totally undertand the feeling of giving up... been there so many times.

Mostly, it is the isolation.. when you are alone with something this huge, it is obviously BEYOND what one person can do, and you think... what the fuck... I only have so much time anyway, so why not drop this shit and just go smell the roses!

I know despair intimately, and I am agonizing over the despair that others, including DUers are also feeling. There is tragedy in the wings here... just waiting, and it will destroy me.

thank you again... I do what I can, and would welcome your help with it!

:pals:
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
109. Wait a second....look at the
Old Soviet Union....very few of its citizens believed Pravda after a while. The citizens knew it was all propaganda.

When someone says they watch Faux, I say, "Oh, you really aren't letting them tell you those lies, are you? It's all propaganda...they're just filling you w/ hate and lies. Too bad you're falling for it."

This Union Busting and War on the Middle Class may just wake up a few of the couch potatoes...now they just need a little push. Tell them to watch 'The Ed Show' for just ONE NIGHT. Or Rachel. I wish Ed were on at 6:00 pm.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
35. The "Corporate Media",
...brought to you by Bill Clinton, the "Centrist" Democrats, and their allies, The Republican party.

Telecommunications Act 1996.

The job at hand would be easier if the Working Class & The Poor (the lower 98%)
had a political party that represented them.
They don't.


Who will STAND and represent THIS American Majority?
Rhetoric, broken promises, and excuses mean NOTHING now.
"By their WORKS you will know them,"
and by their WORKS they will be judged.



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kimsarah Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #35
85. Amen
How soon many of us forget. I don't forget.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
87. This is what I've been saying
since I joined the DU.

No effort, no matter how well intentioned, can overcome the level of propaganda we face. There is simply no way we can win unless our side is heard from.

When I complain about one-sided TV news I frequently have DUers jumping up to say, "Well, I no longer watch TV so I don't have to listen to their crap." They are missing the point entirely. America gets nearly every bit of information from TV.

Those of us that do monitor TV are seeing that this attack on working Americans is barely covered. America and all she has been since our founding is under a grave threat. Half the nation believes this is because Obama is spending too much. We are in deep shit.

I want answers from the Obama Administration. Frankly, at this point in what is obviously a crisis, he is either with us or against us.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. So did Obama.
The voters gave him both houses of Congress. I'm not blaming Obama but the DINO Congressmen and Senators that allowed the minority to rule again during those two years. This discouraged the voters and now we had a Republican sweep across the nation both locally and nationally and the ensuing results of our democracy being extinguished.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. No he wasn't - FDR had his ass kicked into action by the communists making inroads in labor
circles in the 1920s-30's. Wilson's Palmer Raids targeted leftists and FDR further moved to cut their power by enacting the social reforms that calmed folks down and put them back to work. It has nothing to do with support from the people, rather everything to do with protecting capitalism.

Here is some reading for you: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAcommunist.htm
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. "Regulated capitalism in order to save it" -- it was going down ... and should have been gone
long, long ago --

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime!

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vicarofrevelwood Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
60. Competition with the Communist is what drove FDR.
I figured this out on my own years ago. When the Berlin wall fell I knew then the Class war would begin in earnest.If it wasn't for the socialist and the Communist, Social programs would never exist. Now that the "Commie Menace is gone and the socialist are Pariahs, their is no one to compete with. so it's time to get rid of the greatest social safety net America has ever Known. On to a Re-puke Utopia.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #60
103. You three have it right..........
FDR was not a traitor to his class. He SAVED his class. The only thing that stopped the socialist/communitst wave in the 30s WAS the New Deal.

We need another widespread working class/poor uprising. Maybe Wisconsin starts it.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. Please provide any evidence you have that...
Prescott Bush was involved in any way with the "Business Plot".
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Since you already know the correct term as being "business plot",
Edited on Fri Mar-11-11 12:11 PM by Javaman
for the planned overthrow, you are just being disingenuous as usual.

Provide your own link.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Dude...
I studied it in undergraduate school. Prescott Bush's name was never mentioned in conjunction with it. His name was never mentioned by the McCormack Dickstein Committee, nor does his name appear in the Wikipedia entry.

It's YOUR claim, dude. Please quit demanding that I prove YOUR claim.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. A BBC Radio 4 programme linked P. Bush to the "Business Plot"
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Which is my point...
Not only is there no "smoking gun", Thomson fails to offer any corroboration for his claim whatsoever. I studied the "Business Plot" in undergraduate school and Bush's name never came up, nor was he mentioned by the McCormack-Dickstein Committee nor in the Wikipedia entry.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Just offering a link for where people could get the idea that Bush was involved
I remember when this made a minor blip in the blogosphere when it first came out.

I think the more iron-clad thing to focus on is what happened during the war when Bush had his assets seized for doing business with Germany.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I understand...
but it's a little more complicated than Prescott simply having his assets seized for doing business with Germany, but many (not you) try to portray him as either a Nazi collaborator or sympathizer, which simply isn't true.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
42. I think that providing financing , credit lines, and contracts with Hitler is collaboration
He had his assets seized by a Democratic President because he was assured by a republican congress that he could continue his association with Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH),which acted as a US base for the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s. The whole Nazi financial machine that powered Hitlers war efforts was a construct of Prescott Bush and Averill Harriman.

This 9/2004 article in the Guardian lays much of it out.

Prescott Bush was a collaborator because he saw dollar sins, plain and simple. There were no philosophical notions.

But to suggest he was not a collaborator is absolutely , positively FALSE.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Bullshit...
if Prescott Bush was a collaborator, then so was Averill Harriman. You're leaving a great deal of the actual fact of the circumstances out of your "analysis", including the fact that, during most of the time in question, Fritz Thyssen was actually imprisoned by the Nazis, until he was liberated by the Allies. Bush was certainly no angel, but smearing him as a "collaborator" is despicable.

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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #43
74. Retrieved from LexisNexis Congressional, March 31, 2009.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #74
77. Yes...
Prescott Bush got his entire ONE share (out of a total of 4,000 shares) of stock seized.

The issue isn't whether it was seized under the Trading With Enemy Act; it's the extent to which Prescott Bush could, under any circumstances, be deemed "Hitler's banker", which, under even the most generous of interpretations, is remarkably stupid.

People who make this absurd claim typically omit the following information:

a) the business relationship between Germany and Brown Brothers Harriman and Company extended at least back into the days of the Weimar Republic

b) by the time Nazi Germany was officially an "enemy" within the meaning of the Act, Thyssen had already broken with the Nazis and was, in fact, later imprisoned by them.

c) the reason for omitting this information is to make it appear that Bush's relationship with Germany was far more sinister than it actually was. In fact, most of this crap originates with John Buchanan. I would take anything this guy says with a huge grain of salt.

As I stated before, Bush was no angel, however, the notion that he was a Nazi collaborator or, failing that, even a Nazi sympathizer, is patently absurd and has been debunked by no less than Joe Conason, Herbert Parmet and the Jewish Anti-Defamation League.

I loathe trying to reason through extremely complicated issues with people stuck in binary, black-and-white thinking. The only thing worse than that are those who draw their conclusions first, then go off in search of only evidence which supports their pre-determined conclusion. We call that "confirmation bias"
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #77
81. Thanks for the lecture on confirmation bias.
Though it means little coming from someone who uses Wikipedia as a primary source.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. Well, I thought I'd start you off on something...
a little easier to comprehend.

At this point, I suspect that Political Science Quarterly is way too advanced for you.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. Yawn.
That's the best you got?

Weak fucking sauce, dude.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #83
84. Sounds like someone needs...
a nap.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #43
75. Oh, my.
What a tiresome boor you've become.

Dance for me. I find it entertaining.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. Well...
if I am such a "boor", do us both a favor and don't reply to me.

See? "Boor problem" solved!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. You conveniently left this part out...
Nazi Germany Once the Nazi dictatorship took hold, however, Thyssen began to have second thoughts. Although he welcomed the suppression of the Communist Party, the Social Democrats and the trade unions, he disliked the mob violence of the SA. In 1934 he was one of the business leaders who persuaded Hitler to suppress the SA, leading to the "Night of the Long Knives". Thyssen was horrified, however, at the simultaneous murder of various conservative figures such as Kurt von Schleicher.
Thyssen accepted the exclusion of Jews from German business and professional life by the Nazis, and dismissed his own Jewish employees, but he did not share Hitler's violent anti-Semitism. As a Catholic, he also objected to the increasing repression of the Roman Catholic Church, which gathered pace after 1935: in 1937 he sent a letter to Hitler, protesting the persecution of Christians in Germany.<3> The breaking point for Thyssen was the violent pogrom against the Jews in November, 1938 known as Kristallnacht, which caused him to resign from the Council of State. By 1939 he was also bitterly criticising the regime's economic policies, which were subordinating everything to rearmament in preparation for war.<4>
World War II On 1 September 1939 World War II broke out. Thyssen sent Hermann Göring a telegram saying he was opposed to the war, shortly before leaving for Switzerland with his family. He was expelled from the Nazi Party and the Reichstag, and his company was briefly nationalised. It was returned to other members of the Thyssen family some years after the war. In 1940 Thyssen took refuge and moved to France, intending to emigrate to Argentina, but was caught by the German occupation of France while he was visiting his ill mother in Belgium. He was arrested by Vichy France and taken back to Germany, where he was confined, first in a sanatorium near Berlin, then from 1943 in Sachsenhausen concentration camp. His wife Amelie did not escape to Argentina and spent the whole war in the concentration camp with her husband. "She had spent the good times with her husband and would also join him in the difficult times." In February, 1945 he was sent to Dachau concentration camp. He was comparatively well-treated and transferred to Tyrol in late April 1945 together with other prominent inmates, where the SS left the prisoners behind. He was liberated by the 42nd Infantry Division & 45th Infantry Division on May 5, 1945.<5>
Later life While Thyssen was imprisoned in Germany, a biography was published in the United States in 1941 under the title I Paid Hitler. The book was written by a journalist named Emery Reves, based on memoirs dictated by Thyssen. This book supports the view that the German industrialists as a class supported and funded Hitler and put him into power. After the war Thyssen disputed the authenticity of this book, and this was upheld by the postwar denazification tribunal.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Thyssen
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. Thyssen accepted the exclusion of Jews
from German business and professional life by the Nazis, and dismissed his own Jewish employees, but he did not share Hitler's violent anti-Semitism.

That sentence is self-contradictory. And the whole entry is a sickening and poorly done whitewash attempt.

Thank goodness Thyssen and P. Bush have someone on DU vigilantly looking out for their good names.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. WTF?
Edited on Fri Mar-11-11 09:33 PM by SDuderstadt
Is "dismissing his Jewish employees" the same thing as herding them into death camps? Thyssen was no angel, but by the time German marched to war. Thyssen disassociated himself from the Nazi Party and was subsequenty imprisoned by it.

I will further ask you politely not to question my character, sincerity or motivation.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #57
88. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #45
79. Yeah, that's nice.
Both German and Italian Totalitarians reached power by the active help of influential business men
who looked upon them as their political body-guard. These groups did not mind a socialist program
provided it did not give power to trade unionists. They were not much worried by distant promises
of nationalization, but objected to strikes and collective bargaining. In Germany they had made
sure of their position by securing all important ministerial departments for their appointees; they
were quite prepared to leave political and cultural jobs to their allies.

Bonn, M.J. (1940). The economics of the totalitarian states. Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society, 82(1), 77-87.


There is no indication in all the available evidence that the fanatical, often irrational and usually brutal,
Nazi leadership was in any way deterred from its purposes by the influence or orientations of the German
technocrats or bureaucrats. With few exceptions, the German bureaucrats and technocrats adjusted
meekly to the requirements of the totalitarian movement and were happy to reap any material benefits
that Nazi successes produced. It was not until the Nazi regime began to crumble that the bureaucratic
and technocratic elements, e.g., Speer, showed any initiative or purposeful action of their own. Until then,
it was more a matter of the bureaucrats absorbing Nazi values, e.g., in the treatment of slave laborers,
than of the Nazis absorbing a bureaucratic orientation. It seems, therefore, that a violent, arbitrary
totalitarianism can, at least, arise and maintain itself in an industrially advanced area without loss of its
revolutionary zeal and fanatic brutality.

Brzezinski, Z. (1956). Totalitarianism and rationality. The American Political Science Review, 50(3), 751-763.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. What does this have to do with...
Prescott Bush?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I have never done anything remotely like that
Edited on Fri Mar-11-11 02:52 PM by SDuderstadt
I think facts are important no matter whom they apply to, don't you?

I'll ask you politely one time to quit your personal attacks and stick to the facts.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
39. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
vicarofrevelwood Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
61. Google Smedley Darlington Butler
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. I studied the Business Plot...
in undergraduate school, dude.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
96. Is bank-rolling Nazis not enough for you???
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #96
101. Dude...
read the actual facts of both the Business Plot and Union Bank and you'll find that it's far less sinister than "bankrolling Nazis".
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. BBC: The Whitehouse Coup
Document uncovers details of a planned coup in the USA in 1933 by right-wing American businessmen

The coup was aimed at toppling President Franklin D Roosevelt with the help of half-a-million war veterans. The plotters, who were alleged to involve some of the most famous families in America, (owners of Heinz, Birds Eye, Goodtea, Maxwell Hse & George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott) believed that their country should adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great depression.

Mike Thomson investigates why so little is known about this biggest ever peacetime threat to American democracy.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm with you, brother/sister. No more.
I am talking to people all the time, and finally, it is working. Republicans have crossed the line and their nasty anti-democracy selves are naked for everyone to see and it ain't pretty. Now people who were apathetic before are getting it now because they see the corrupt inhuman filth of the republican agenda.

Thank you for the awesome post.

No more.
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Michigan-Arizona Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. K&R n/t
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. No more!
:applause:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
28. Back when I played fast pitch softball, I used to over throw the
cut off man on a regular basis.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
29. Reference info for newbies:
1934: The Plot Against America

BY Scott Horton
PUBLISHED July 28, 2007
I’m back from the land of heather and thistles, not to mention wee drams and lukewarm ale, but on my way out a friend at the BBC alerted me to this, a not-to-miss program on the BBC this morning, accessible over the next several days by internet. It’s the story of the Plot Against America. I don’t mean the Philip Roth novel, nor even the Sinclair Lewis book, It Can’t Happen Here, but rather the historical events upon which these two works of fiction were based.

In November 1934, federal investigators uncovered an amazing plot involving some two dozen senior businessmen, a good many of them Wall Street financiers, to topple the government of the United States and install a fascist dictatorship. Roth’s novel is developed from several strands of this factual account; he assumed the plot is actually carried out, whereas in fact an alert FDR shut it down but stopped short of retaliatory measures against the plotters. A key element of the plot involved a retired prominent general who was to have raised a private army of 500,000 men from unemployed veterans and who blew the whistle when he learned more of what the plot entailed. The plot was heavily funded and well developed and had strong links with fascist forces abroad. A story in the New York Times and several other newspapers reported on it, and a special Congressional committee was created to conduct an investigation. The records of this committee were scrubbed and sealed away in the National Archives, where they have only recently been made available.

The Congressional committee kept the names of many of the participants under wraps and no criminal action was ever brought against them. But a few names have leaked out. And one is Prescott Bush, the grandfather of the incumbent president. Prescott Bush was of course deep into the business of the Hamburg-America Lines, and had tight relations throughout this period with the new Government that had come to power in Germany a year earlier under Chancellor Aldoph Hitler. It appears that Bush was to have formed a key liaison for the group with the new German government.

Prescott Bush, of course, went on to service as a U.S. Senator from Connecticut, and his son, George H.W. Bush emerged from World War II as a hero.

-snip

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/hbc-90000651



The Whitehouse Coup
Monday 23 July 2007



The coup was aimed at toppling President Franklin D Roosevelt with the help of half-a-million war veterans. The plotters, who were alleged to involve some of the most famous families in America, (owners of Heinz, Birds Eye, Goodtea, Maxwell Hse & George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott) believed that their country should adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great depression.

Mike Thomson investigates why so little is known about this biggest ever peacetime threat to American democracy.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Note that neither...
Horton nor Thomson provide any corroboration whatsoever for their allegations.

Did you fact-check this in any way? Does it bother you that neither of them provide even the slightest amount of corroboration?
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
48. You always seem to come to the defense of the right.
I have to ask: Why?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Dude...
I come to the defense of the facts. Don't we have enough of a problem with the lack of truth on the right? Should we be like them? I will put my progressive credentials up against yours any day, dude.

In the meantime, I will ask you politely not to question my character, sincerity or motivation.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #50
69. Because it never hapenned, we must conclude there was never a plot.

So when terrorists are stopped, they are obviously innocent because they never succeeded?

In 1934 Butler testified to the McCormack–Dickstein Congressional committee on these claims.<1> In the opinion of the committee, these allegations were credible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

I'm also quite certain that because the M$M hasn't extensively covered this, and that Wikipedia is entirely unreliable, that those also make this an event that was never even plotted.

Seriously, it must be nice to live in a world where even being a first-person witness proves nothing. You know... Obama never proved he was born in the US, right? Well... that depends on your 'standard of evidence'.

Shoe on the other foot; The birthers use the same 'defense of the facts' argument that you have.

"Prescott Bush was never involved in a plot to overthrow the government because there isn't proof."

"There is no 'proof' Obama is an American."

There are as many facts proving that there was a plot as there are proving Obama is a citizen... or at least an equally compelling number. To decide to dismiss some out of one bias or another is no more a 'defense of the facts' than the birthers claim to be executing.

Do you have some compelling evidence to the contrary? Has this 'overthrow plot' been authoritatively debunked? In that case, you may have a point. Otherwise, notsomuch.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. Dude...
read my posts carefully. I clearly stated that I studied the Business Plot in undergraduate school. How in the world you get out of that, that I somehow deny its existence is a mystery known apparently only to you.

Not to mention being a really stupid strawman argument. Please point to any post in which I denied the existence of the Business Plot, dude.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. Dude...
It seemed that you very much denied its existence, dude.

Nothing stupid in trying to pin down a position, dude, but since you still haven't been explicit, dude, dude let's put this to rest;

Did such a plot occur, dude?

I love closed-ended questions, dude, because of the way they dispense with bullshit. Sorry for having to take it to this point, dude. Would have been nice to have clarification sooner, dude.

Dude.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. Dude...
Edited on Sat Mar-12-11 01:40 AM by SDuderstadt
read posts #9, #22 and #63 in which I said I studied the Business Plot in undergraduate school. Do you think I meant I studied a non-existent plot?? I also made reference to the McCormack-Dickstein Committee, which was established to investigate the Business Plot. Do you really think I was talking about a committee established to investigate a non-existent plot?

The next time before you jump in and embarrass yourself, you might want to read through the thread first. Either that or work on improving your reading comprehension. Fucking unbelievable.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #73
92. Dude...
Edited on Sat Mar-12-11 08:27 AM by The Doctor.
Using the fact that people respond to single posts or subthreads to be rude to them, and then acting rude because someone didn't meticulously read every other post of yours in the thread says an awful lot more about you than it does me.

Simply clearing things up on the subject without being rude about it is a mark of class. I now know better than to expect anything of the sort from just one more DUer.

I don't have a damn thing to be 'embarrassed about'. You do.

Un-Fucking-believable.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #92
94. Dude...
Now you are rationalizing your intellectual laziness. Why not simply admit you didn't know what you were talking about?
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #94
105. LOL @ Dude.

So much more important for you to make other people 'wrong'. You're pretty transparent, 'dude'.

Buh-bye.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #105
106. Define irony...
You were simply wrong and now you are trying to somehow rationalize it as my fault.

Too funny.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
30. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
32. Only way the right wing can rise is via political violence and we 've had
more than 50+ years of it -- taking our president and our "people's government" from us --

Bobby Kennedy, MLK, Jr., Malcolm X -- and over the decades any other rising liberal or

progressive --



As the Europeans said after JFK's assassiantion ...

"Liberals and progressives have an odd way of getting assassinated or otherwise disappearing

in America" --


"The myth of a free press died with the assassination of Pres. John F. Kennedy"
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #32
90. I'm starting to believe
they can accomplish it through decades of propaganda. The right has the nation by the ass RIGHT NOW.

Of course we can only imagine the different path our nation would have taken had these liberal leaders lived a full and influential life.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
34. K&R x 100000 nt
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hwmnbn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
36. k&R
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
37. As you said The Rich against everyone else" and too many D's work for the rich.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
38. K&R
n/t.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
40. As I've always said
rather, repeated,

"Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it"

Russia & the last Tsar, the French Revolution are the two big ones that come to mind,
but there have been plenty more.


I was very impressed with a wealthy corporate German businessman who was being interviewed by an 'American' (you know what I mean, it gets so tough to fit in U.S. citizen sometimes) in which the 'American' kept going back to taxes and why he wasn't upset about paying 'so much'. (The link to that article is on my old, now dead computer so can't come up with it -- the 'quote' below is fairly correct IIFC, so maybe it can be looked up via that)

His reply was: 'I don't want to be a rich man living in a poor country'.

What an answer! Was he empathetic? Compassionate?
Or did he learn from history in that the wealthy in an impoverished society are in extreme danger?


Perhaps both,
but I sure wish our Daddy Warbucks would take a lesson from that guy
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AKDavy Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
41. Haves vs Have-Nots...Top vs Bottom
We're going to cross a threshold of suffering. It will be sudden. It will be unexpected.

Expect Power to pull out every stop, to violate any civil liberty, and to use every justification for brutal tactics used against the masses to preserve "order" and "security."

I'm not advocating, I'm predicting.

The question in my mind is: Whose side will the police and military take?
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
44. No mas.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
46. No more.
The Machiavellian greedheads use their money to accumulate power and their power to protect their money -- and the wars. ALL NO MORE.

Outstanding essay, Javaman. Thank you for putting it into words. May all who hear it put it into action.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
47. K&R. Fookin' GREAT post!!!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Well, except for...
the part that isn't true.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Explain this for those of us in the cheap seats.
Thanks!!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Prescott Bush did NOT...
lead the Business Plot aganst FDR, nor was it a function of the GOP.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #53
97. What's your stake in this line of questioning? You LIKE Old Man Bush?
Edited on Sat Mar-12-11 08:55 AM by WinkyDink
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #97
100. For some strange reason...
I grew up thinking facts matter. That's why I am a Democrat.
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Synicus Maximus Donating Member (828 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #100
114. One should never let facts get in the way of a good rant or a
good fable.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #114
115. Unfortunately...
there are some days when segments of DU more closely resemble FreeRepublic. It's truly alarming.
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #100
123. I didn't study the business plot
However, knowing what I do about the Bush family and seeing what the Bush family has done in the past 30 some years, I would be inclined to believe that Prescott was up to his eye balls in it~
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #123
124. Then it should be easy to...
develop evidence for it. Take your time.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
49. Damn straight no more! We have had it!
K & R!
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
54. K&R! n/t
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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
56. damn skippy
just like the earth is rockin & rollin, so is civilization. And ours is teetering on the edge of the precipice as well. feels like Rome sometimes at the end of the empire...

and yet we have the power to shift gears
WE the PEOPLE are the ones who have time and numbers and resources on our side.
community movements, neighborhoos gardens, barn raisings, etc... that's how we survive the fall
know your tribe, and begin working on self sustainability, off the grid, oil independence
why not start building our own conversion kits in garages, the real genius is no longer subsidized in labs, it's got to be our own ingenuity...

ya well, that's my 2 cents
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
58. the culprits were not prosecuted as i recall.
prosecute obama now....get it?
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louslobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
59. Another messenger with the truth. Thank you. No More!
the rich and powerful have overplayed their hand and I'm glad they did, otherwise those who are waking up, might have stayed asleep while they finished the job. So I thank the Republicons, the right leaning Supreme Court and those voters who gave them the additional rope they needed, to finally hang themselves.
Lou
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jacquelope Donating Member (364 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
62. K&R!
.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
64. A Hearty Recommend!
:kick:
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handmade34 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
65. reading Shock Doctrine again
by Naomi Klein... suggest everybody read it!
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
66. They are setting up their lies to break up the US. That is their aim.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #66
98. Not break it up; OWN IT COMPLETELY. A FEUDAL FIEFDOM.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
67. K & R. I actually read this out loud to this song and it fits perfectly -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74LOateq_Jk&feature=related

Some essays would make great visual narratives with the right music behind it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
68. There's been an enormous undue trust in government - we all need our BS meters turned waaay higher !
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #68
104. WAY too much trust in not only government........
but corporations and the whole capitalist system. If you don't think that the government and corps will screw you over in a heartbeat, just look at the Nixon, and yes LBJ too, years.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #104
129. True -- but the reporting hasn't been keeping citizens up to date ... for 50 years or so!!!
:evilgrin:

In fact, I was reviewing an older book today -- Wm. Greidere's "Who Will Tell

The People" -- and he's clearly telling us in this '92 book that in '78 the

Democrats were colluding with the GOP to move tax code for their own benefit!

Corporations ended up with 36% decrease in their taxes!

Then there's the CIA and all they've been doing for 60 years or so to bring

fascism to America!!

Agree re LBJ and Nixon -- criminals.

"The myth of a free press died with the assassination of Pres. John F. Kennedy" --


They not only took our president -- they took our people's government!!



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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
71. Obama works for the rich...
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #71
99. I'm convinced. Convinced that that is why the relatively fast-track to the WH.
Edited on Sat Mar-12-11 08:57 AM by WinkyDink
With an accepted man of the people as his V-P, and complete loonies as his opponents.
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joentokyo Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
76. You go Javaman, and I hope everyone who reads this post follows!
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
86. Why is Obama on 'their' side?
Is it just money? Maybe we can pay him to represent us.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #86
108. Because
he is one of "them"?
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
91. K & R
Excellent post
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TatonkaJames Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
93. Carlin has said that for years and no one listened because he was a comedian
"They own you and forget about politicians, they're there for the illusion that someone's in control."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
95. Best post I've read in a VERY long time (including mine! ;-) ).
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
102. Can't argue with a thing in this OP........
RESIST!
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
107. K & R !!!
:kick:
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
110. The only choice is to identify them, remove them from US soil and take over their assets.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #110
111. You might want to read the...
U.S. Constitution.

Stupid post.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #111
112. I have. They are breaking our Constitution. I can see no choice but to have masses
of people in this Country confronting those that are ruining it, starting with the Kochs and others.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #112
113. Two questions
As despicable as they are, how are the Koch brothers "breaking" the constitution? Secondly, the solution to wealth and income unequality is complex and needs to occur on multiple fronts. In any event, can you tell me how any plan to "remove (people) from American soil" and confiscate their assets would be remotely constitutional?

You seem to be advocating "saving" the Constitution by destroying it.
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Synicus Maximus Donating Member (828 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #113
116. There you go using facts again. Don't you know it is ever so
much more fun to think illogically or not bother to think at all?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. I really loathe irrationality, because...
it shifts attention away from practical solutions that will require patience and hard work to implement.

More importantly, casually slinging about ideas like exiling people and confiscating their wealth, besides being totally unconstitutional, is going to create a backlash of epic proportions and not just from the ultra-wealthy.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #117
120. OTOH, that poster's comments DO have precident.
The proposed method , "remove them from US soil and take over their assets"
was very effective in France (1789), and Russia (1917).

I prefer the method currently being used in Central & South America.
The Bolivarian Reforms sweeping across Latin America are nothing short of (near) Bloodless Revolutions,
and give me hope for the future.

VIVA Democracy!
I pray we get some here soon!

When The Working Class & The Poor realize we have more in common with each other
than we have in common with the Rich Elite Leadership of BOTH political Parties,
we can DEMAND "change".



Who will STAND UP and represent THIS American Majority?
Platitudes, Rhetoric, Empty Promises, and Excuses are meaningless now.

"By their WORKS you will know them,"
And by their WORKS they will be held accountable.
Platitudes, Rhetoric, Empty Promises, and Excuses are meaningless now.



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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #120
121. Well, unfortunately for you...
we're not in France not Russia and your proposal would overthrow the Constitution.

Stupid idea.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #121
125. You haven't been paying attention over the last 10 years.
Edited on Sat Mar-12-11 05:12 PM by bvar22
The Constitution has ALREADY been "overthrown" (your term).
First by Bush the Lesser with the Patriot Act, FISA, and "First Amendment Zones",
and more recently by the Obama Administration who has continued these Extra-Constitutional policies.

It is kinda "stupid" (your term) to bind yourself by a document that the leadership of BOTH political parties has been wiping their ass on for 10 years. In our current situation, it would take a revolution to re-instate The Constitution.
Even Jefferson agrees with me.

Like I said above, I prefer the method currently in use in South/Central America.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone



"By their works you will know them."

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #125
126. What you are proposing is...
insurrection. Look up the powers of Congress, specifically at the power to suppress insurrections.

You can rationalize and romanticize this all you want, but there are constitutional remedies. You cannot unilaterally decide that the Constitution has been abridged and decide to overthrow it.

Stupid idea.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #126
127. Jefferson didn't think so,
but, of course, you are entitled to your opinion.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #127
128. Dude...
If you can't understand the difference between the Declaration of Independence and overthrowing King George; and establishing a democratically elected government under the Constitution and how those two situations are different, I can't help you.

Do you honestly think Jefferson contemplated the Declaration supplanting the Constitution?
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #120
122. Thank you
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
118. Too late to recommend, but kicking anyway.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
119. Too late to recommend, but kicking anyway.
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