(Now) 3 nuclear reactors in trouble after Japan quake (Real Meltdown Risk)

[denem]

Source: MSNBC

TOKYO — Coolant systems failed at three quake-stricken Japanese nuclear reactors Saturday, sending radiation seeping outside one and temperatures rising out of control at two others.

Radiation surged to around 1,000 times the normal level in the control room of the No. 1 reactor of the Fukushima Daichi plant, Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said. Radiation — it was not clear how much — had also seeped outside, prompting widening of an evacuation area to a six-mile radius from a two-mile radius around the plant. Earlier, 3,000 people had been urged to leave their homes.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Saturday that the temperatures of its No.1 and No.2 reactors at its Fukushima Daini nuclear power station were rising, and it had lost control over pressure in the reactor ...

Tepco said the reactors shut down due to the loss of offsite power due to the malfunction of one of two off-site power systems. That triggered emergency diesel generators to startup and provide backup power for plant systems. About an hour after the plant shut down, however, the emergency diesel generators stopped, leaving the units with no power for important cooling functions.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42025882/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

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The reactor core remains hot even after a shutdown. If the outage persists, it could in a worst-case scenario cause a reactor meltdown, an official with Japan's nuclear safety agency said on condition of anonymity, citing sensitivity of the issue.http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/market_news/article.jsp?content=D9LTBHRO0

Fukushima Daich No 1 is one of the eight biggest nuclear reactors in the world. Each of the reactors in trouble is water cooled. Internal temperatures have long since passed 100C so the pressure is out of control as temperature rises.

That radiation inside is 1,000 times above the normal level shows how compromised the cooling/separation systems are.

[opihimoimoi]

1. Infrastructure needs upgrading asap

[riverwalker]

2. MSM-->look over here it's Charlie Sheen!

They just need a little super magic nuclear antifreeze...no problem...nothing to see, move along. :sarcasm:

[Jackpine Radical]

3. Oh, crap.

I'm no nuclear engineer, but this does not sound good.

[bemildred]

4. Sounds like some sort of pattern. nt

[sasha031]

5. update there are now five reactors under a state of emergency

(All times are local in Japan GMT+9)

8:59am
With a state of emergency declared at another nuclear reactor, there are now five reactors under a state of emergency - two at Fukushima No.1 plant, and three at the nearby Fukushima No.2 plant.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia/live-blog-japan-earthquake#update-10551

[PaDUer]

17. this is worsening....

<http://abcnews.go.com/International/japan-earthquake-nuclear-reactor-damaged-yields-high-radiation/story?id=13114181>

"Given the large quantity of irradiated nuclear fuel in the pool, the radioactivity release could be worse than the Chernobyl nuclear reactor catastrophe of 25 years ago."

[Poll_Blind]

6. Fukushims No. 2 evacuation radius expanded to 3 KM by Japanese government.

PB

[denem]

7. For the unrecs. if there is actually no meltdown risk, tell me why

Sure, you could go in Chernobyl style and full out the fuel rods I guess.

[B2G]

9. This is not good, but

these reactors have containment chambers. Chernobyl did not. So it's a different situation.

[creeksneakers2]

12. If its contained...?

Why did some radiation leak outside and why are they evacuating?

[denem]

13. Yeah I know. A meltdown is not necessarily a big explosion.

But I hope they got their math right.

[B2G]

14. My understanding is that it's a planned leak

to relieve pressure in the reactor. Please correct me if that's not right.

[denem]

20. Thats right - a leak of water vapor keeps the pressure down.

It does nothing however to reduce the temperature of the reactor core. As that rises, the water vapor pressures rises again. The pressure is indicative of the temperature of the reactor core, as is the 1000 x normal radiation levels.

[Arrowhead2k1]

8. Please tell me the situation is being blown out of proportion by the media.

PLEASE!

[denem]

11. Sounds to me like complete failure of the cooling system.

I'm no scientist. We can expect the Japanese government will doing it's best to minimize panic, by avoiding talk of worse case senarios.

[B2G]

15. They don't have power to run the cooling system

Their backup generators were swamped by the tsumani. They are working from battery backups that will soon run out of power.

[jannyk]

24. There must be more to it than that. Why aren't they flying in Generators

to replace the swamped ones? I've been following this story all night, and the guy that gave the original report on BBCWorld regarding Fukushima #1 looked terrified.

[B2G]

25. The size of the generators required

cannot be 'flown in'. They must be transported in via the ground. You see the problem here...

[jannyk]

29. What about more batteries then - I heard the batteries will (have?) fail?

Not trying to be obtuse - really trying to understand.

[Journeyman]

21. OK. It's completely blown out of proportion by the media. . . .

You got it here straight from me, another guy just as clueless as the media, no more knowledgeable than most of the rest commenting about this on the internet.

Go get something to eat. Take in a movie. If your assistance is required in Japan, you'll get a call. Otherwise, no sense worrying about something that may or may not happen and over which you have absolutely no control.

"I am an old man," said Mark Twain in his fading hours. "I am an old man and have known many troubles, most of which never happened."

[joshcryer]

34. It is.

[FBaggins]

10. Now five.

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/market_news/article.jsp?content=D9LTBHRO0

[Tx4obama]

16. There are now FIVE

via Twitter

AJELive

#Japan: Five nuclear reactor units at #Fukushima now under "state of emergency". More on #AlJazeera's liveblog: http://aje.me/gkeOYd

[denem]

18. AlJazeera is brilliant.

[wtmusic]

19. The closed cooling system normally operates with water at 400-500°C,

pressurized so it doesn't boil (pressurized water makes a more efficient coolant).

If there is a leak (and their probably is if the containment vessel is pressurizing) there's steam shooting out of the primary loop pipe. They may have to keep injecting water until the core cools down.

[denem]

22. What then does completely lost control of pressure mean?

Sorry, I don't really understand this.

[wtmusic]

27. A different model, but same principle

The little red blocks on the left are the nuclear fuel assemblies (uranium) that generate heat. The yellow water pipes are called the primary loop. They take heat away from the core and pass it to the secondary loop (blue) which is used to drive the turbines on the right.

The quake has possibly cracked the primary loop, so radioactive steam is spraying out into the containment vessel (big gray shell). Because the shell is airtight, pressure eventually builds up, and if it gets bad enough it will rupture. There is a safety valve on top which they can use to relieve pressure, but by doing so they release radioactive steam into the atmosphere.

[RamboLiberal]

23. Remind me again why it is safe to build nuclear reactors

in earthquake zones all you Repub & conservative nuclear fans?

[B2G]

26. Well to play devil's advocate

I find it to be pretty amaizing that they survived an 8.9 earthquake and the problem is due to massive power outages. They also survived a 30 ft tsunami. This plant is literally right on the coast at ground zero. I find that alone to be amazing.

[GReedDiamond]

28. Just because the structures have survived so far...

...does not mean that they are a "good idea," considering the catastrophe that may follow should one or more containment vessels rupture, or if there is a core meltdown.

Obviously, having backup generators that function for an hour or so, than turn off, was inadequate emergency planning, which was probably a "budget consideration" when it came to maximizing energy company profits.

My girlfriend is over there now, caring for her elderly parents. She was supposed to return to Los Angeles tomorrow after being in Japan for almost the last six months, now she is stuck there with these potential nuclear disasters looming -- those in addition to the standard quake damage, disruptions and dangers she and everyone else are currently enduring.

FUCK NUCLEAR POWER!

[B2G]

30. CNN has an expert on

He's saying that the rods have been inserted into the core, so that a chance of a meltdown is approximately 0 percent.

Let's keep our heads and monitor this.

[Tx4obama]

33. Expert on MSNBC said the containers that hold the rods WILL MELT

there will be a meltdown and radiation will LEAK.
Said that that could lead to TENS OF THOUSANDS of death by cancer!

[GReedDiamond]

36. Like I said...

...FUCK NUCLEAR POWER and, additionally, FUCK THE GREEDHEADS who control the global "energy markets."

[Codeine]

32. What about all of us liberal and Democratic nuclear fans?

Because properly-designed reactors can handle it. There's been no disaster yet. Smart people with far more knowledge than any of us are on the job and handling that shit as we speak. I remain confident.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Because the people making money building them say it is.

Would they lie just to make money?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Obama: US Needs 'New Generation Of Safe, Clean Nuclear Power Plants

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/obama-us-needs-new-generation-of-safe-clean-nuclear-power-plants.php

That's the bright future that lies ahead. And it is one my administration is striving toward every single day. We've already made the largest investment in clean energy in history, an investment that is expected to create more than 700,000 jobs across America - manufacturing advanced batteries for more efficient vehicles, upgrading the power grid so that it's smarter and stronger, and doubling our nation's capacity to generate renewable energy. And after decades in which we have done little to increase the efficiency of cars and trucks, we're raising fuel economy standards to reduce our dependence on oil while helping folks save money at the pump.

But in order to truly harness our potential in clean energy, we'll have to do more. In the near term, as we transition to cleaner energy sources, we'll have to make tough decisions about opening new offshore areas for oil and gas development. We'll need to make continued investments in advanced biofuels and clean coal technologies, even as we build greater capacity in renewables like wind and solar. And we'll have to build a new generation of safe, clean nuclear power plants in America.

That's what brings us here today. Through the Department of Energy - under the leadership of a Nobel prize-winning physicist, Steven Chu - we are announcing roughly $8 billion in loan guarantees to break ground on the first new nuclear plant in our country in nearly three decades. It's a plant that will create thousands of construction jobs in the next few years, and some 800 permanent jobs in the years to come. And this is only the beginning. My budget proposes tripling the loan guarantees we provide to help finance safe, clean nuclear facilities - and we'll continue to provide financing for clean energy projects here in Maryland and across America.