Outer structure of building that houses reactor at Fukushima plant appears to have blown off - NHK

[tabatha]

Japan Nuclear Safety Agency: has heard explosion was not at reactor.

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

[JVS]

1. Ok. I'm officially frightened.

[steve2470]

2. more from that link:

Tokyo fire department sending special nuclear rescue team to Fukushima - TV
by Reuters_TonyTharakan at 3:17 AM

[steve2470]

3. more:

Tepco says explosion may have been hydrogen used to cool Fukushima plant - Kyodo; Tepco says 4 people taken to hospital after reported explosion, no word on condition - Jiji
by Reuters_TonyTharakan at 3:20 AM

[aquart]

6. So what were they doing that failed so badly?

And what next?

[aquart]

4. Okay. Now why would it do that?

And why would they need this?

Tokyo fire department sending special nuclear rescue team to Fukushima - TV
by Reuters_TonyTharakan at 3/12/2011 8:17:38 AM3:17 AM

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. It is potentially a HAZMAT situation

I really do not want to think what is going in those heads.

[tabatha]

9. Radioactive emergency team dispatched

The health ministry has sent an emergency medical team to the Fukushima No.1 nuclear plant in northeastern Japan in case people should be exposed to radiation.

The team left the National Institute of Radiological Sciences in Chiba City, near Tokyo, on a Self-Defense Force helicopter at 8:10 AM on Saturday.

The group consists of doctors, nurses, and experts on radiation measurement.

The team is now getting ready at a nuclear disaster response center, located about 5 kilometers from the power plant.

Saturday, March 12, 2011 13:09 +0900 (JST)

[Paradoxical]

5. I'd be willing to bet this was a hydrogen explosion.

The result of burning nuclear fuel. The hydrogen will pool where ever they are venting the air from the reactor vessel into. Which is most likely into another portion of the reactor building.

I'd also be willing to bet that the concrete dome on top of the vessel has not been breached.

[roguevalley]

7. the people who are going to have to go inside and fix this will die

early just like Chernobyl. God bless them.

[Paradoxical]

No one should have to go inside.

Even if the core is melting down, there should be no reason why any human being should be setting foot inside of the reactor containment building.


These reactors will, even in the worst case scenario, shut down on their own without any human intervention.

[BoWanZi]

18. The Liquidators of Chernobyl. RIP to every one of them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dLycZdumJI

Lots of sad videos showing the liquidators going into Chernobyl which for sure guarantees them an early painful death. but they helped prevent Chernobyl from becoming even worse than it was.

[Paradoxical]

26. Liquidators were only needed because the reactor exploded.

And breached the primary barrier. Which at Chernobyl was the building walls.

We will not need "liquidators" in this circumstance. Assuming the reactor containment vessel has not suffered a catastrophic failure.

[hlthe2b]

19. Oh, Gawd... I thought we'd said "never again" back then...

We are a very stupid species, it seems. Damn. Hoping for the best....helpless, but hopeful...

[aquart]

10. TEPCO agrees with you. Now what?

[Paradoxical]

13. Well, now we know that the fuel rods are almost certainly burning.

They should continue to circulate the air as much as possible as long as it's a closed loop.

Otherwise, hydrogen will continue to build up and there will be more explosions.

[eppur_se_muova]

25. see post #24 nt

[Hannah Bell]

20. that speculation's been reported here too:

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

[eppur_se_muova]

24. H2 results when fuel rods reacts with very hot H2O, not air.

Venting the gases from the reactor could lead to an explosion when H2 mixes with air. This does not mean the fuel rods are necessarily exposed to air, but obviously the fuel has reacted with water, so the jackets of the fuel rods are probably split or melted.

ON EDIT: I stand partially corrected. H2 can from from H2O plus the zirconium alloy cladding on the fuel rods, not just uranium. Not sure if this reactor used the same alloy, but at sufficiently high temperatures many metals will react this way. I just assumed it was from uranium because the temperature was reported to be above the boiling point of water, not the higher temperatures which occured at TMI, resulting in reaction of the zirconium cladding.

[Paradoxical]

28. Not venting could lead to further explosions, right?

I assume this will continue to happen as long as hydrogen is being produced.

[eppur_se_muova]

29. Not venting could lead to further pressure inside the primary containment vessel.

Every time they vent, it will release a small amount of radioactive material, and probably more H2 -- so further danger of H2/air explosion.

If only they could get the coolant going, they could avoid further venting. I have no way of knowing if any part of the cooling system is functional at this point.

[Paradoxical]

30. Venting radioactive coolant would be preferable to waiting until the system explodes.

At least, that seems logical to me.

[eppur_se_muova]

31. That's presumably what they're trying to do -- H2 has complicated matters.

If there were nothing but steam inside, venting would be pretty straightforward (as such things go). If the H2 blows up every time, their jobs just got a lot more dangerous.

[aquart]

32. Which means.......?

[eppur_se_muova]

38. That the reactor vessel has not necessarily been breached.

Air is normally excluded from the reactor. It is extremely hot steam, reacting with metals (or graphite, at Chernobyl) that causes the formation of H2. The H2 was apparently in the process of being deliberately vented -- a controlled leak, rather than a rupture of the vessel. The explosion would have happened after H2 mixed with outside air.

[meow mix]

11. nuke fans "perfectly safe.. a guy in georgia said so"

[tabatha]

12. Tepco says explosion may have been hydrogen

used to cool Fukushima plant - Kyodo; Tepco says 4 people taken to hospital after reported explosion, no word on condition - Jiji

[Paradoxical]

15. Hydrogen is not used to cool a nuclear reactor.

I guarantee you that.

I've heard of hydrogen being used as a coolant. But never under such circumstances.

[tabatha]

17. I thought that was odd.

Reuters got it backwards.

[Maru Kitteh]

36. Desperate circumstances require desperate measures? Might a lack of alternatives led them here?

If not that, what would you suspect? What's your best guess?

[Paradoxical]

39. Hydrogen is a byproduct of melting nuclear fuel rods.

Essentially.

There's no way that anyone thought "Hey let's cool this overheating nuclear reactor with hydrogen".

Edit: Someone else is giving a better explanation of how H2 forms within an overheating reactor. It's the product of a reaction between super hot steam and the nuclear fuel rods.

[Maru Kitteh]

45. Thanks. Not my specialty for sure. So you think the H2 built up and blew?

Not great news by any means but not the worst either - like an egg that blew off it's shell, essentially?

[Paradoxical]

46. This is not my specialty either. It was for two semesters.

At this point there are reports of a steam explosion. I'm not sure what's going on.

[coyote]

14. VIDEO of Explosion

http://www.twitvid.com/LICNU

[meow mix]

21. looks large, and destructive

not good

[tabatha]

22. or a lot of material that was pulverized.

[tabatha]

16. Fukushima prefecture says Tepco's no.1 reactor ceiling has collapsed - Jiji

The outside of the building would be the secondary containment boundary. We need to hope that the primary containment is still intact.

[Paradoxical]

23. I am officially refusing to believe that the reactor containment vessel is breached.

This would have to be an explosion of unheard of proportions.

[tabatha]

27. I don't think it has.

I am hoping.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[steve2470]

33. 0908: The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) is urgently seeking information about the.......

explosion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

[steve2470]

35. TEPCO says 4 people who were injured after explosion don't have life-threatening injuries -

TEPCO says 4 people who were injured after explosion don't have life-threatening injuries - Kyodo
by Reuters_TonyTharakan at 4:06 AM

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

[steve2470]

37. 0914: Japanese authorities have extended the evacuation area at the Fukushima-Daini plant -

0914: Japanese authorities have extended the evacuation area at the Fukushima-Daini plant - also know as Fukushima II - to 10km, the same distance as for the Fukushima-Daiichi, or Fukushima I plant.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

[tama]

40. According

to (best guess) of a Finnish official (from radiation security center) the core has melted and was thrown out by pressure in the explosion.

[Paradoxical]

41. Jesus Fucking Christ. There's no goddamn way.

Where are you getting these reports?

[aquart]

42. That's not a good thing is it? What happens next?

[Paradoxical]

47. Uhh if the core exploded, they are in some serious shit.

Like, all of that confidence I have previously demonstrated...if you took the inverse of that. That's how terrible an actual reactor explosion would be.

[aquart]

48. But you don't think it did?

[Paradoxical]

49. No, I do not think the reactor core has exploded.

Clearly the reactor building did. But the reactor core is encased in a gigantic steel-reinforced concrete dome. It's designed to withstand a direct impact from a passenger jet.

If that concrete dome is breached, people seriously need to start getting the fuck out of town.

[aquart]

50. The reaction in Japan seems to favor your belief.

Widening the exclusion from ten to 20 KM says to me they think bad things are happening and better safe than sorry, but I don't get ALL IS LOST HEAD FOR THE HILLS from them.

Not yet.

[dixiegrrrrl]

51. "It's designed to withstand a direct impact from a passenger jet."

Like WTC???

( Jus saying)

[coyote]

43. BBC reporter was stopped 60 km from plant by police

The BBC's Nick Ravenscroft was on his way towards Fukushima, but about 60km from the plant was stopped by the police and told it was too dangerous to proceed. He says there is lots of traffic coming in the other direction. Authorities in vehicles with sirens are making public announcements to the crowds.

[steve2470]

44. more here from BBC:

0927: Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency is investigating the explosion at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant. Meanwhile, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yuko Edano, has told journalists: "As to the evacuation of the residents, of course we will have to ascertain the level of the radiation and, of course, we will have to cope and take appropriate measures. But once we do the analysing and once we know the facts we will let you know."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698