Aw fuck. I don't often say it, but aw fuck

[uppityperson]

Can anyone tell me why I shouldn't be saying this? Edited to add, the writing is a bit sensationalistic, esp using the Chernobyl comparison, but still, using salt water to stop it means they plan on abandoning it later.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
2318: US nuclear experts warn that pumping sea water to cool a quake-hit Japanese nuclear reactor is an "act of desperation" that may foreshadow a Chernobyl-like disaster, AFP reports. "The situation has become desperate enough that they apparently don't have the capability to deliver fresh water or plain water to cool the reactor and stabilise it, and now, in an act of desperation, are having to resort to diverting and using sea water," said Robert Alvarez, who works on nuclear disarmament at the Institute for Policy Studies

[tekisui]

1. An unfolding tragedy.

:-(

[LiberalEsto]

2. I read earlier that the seawater will leave permanent damage

in the form of corrosion, even if nothing else happens to the reactor.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. They are sacrificing the unit

to try to contain it. It will not reenter service

[RKP5637]

3. Bad news, very bad news.

:( :scared:

[jaxx]

4. I've been reading along there too, it's the best news update.

I won't tell you that you can't say it. It's an aw fuck day.

[truedelphi]

5. Iknow that I have some iodine containing tablets in the household.

Timing of these things coincides with a week of rain here in Northern California. What gets out of those plants will be hitting the rest of the world in short order.

If Homeland Security was worth a rat's ass, every household would have a supply of iodine tablets, but they have never been worth a half dollar.

[tavalon]

13. Correct

They need to be taken within four hours of exposure.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

6. I gotta bad bad feeling about this

I don't know if it's just my natural distrust of all "official" news sources, but I just don't feel like we are getting the whole story.

If so, maybe as so not to spread panic, while the emergency personal are doing their jobs...hopefully, optimistically..

Watching CNN, just had a rather large aftershock

[roguevalley]

11. Japan's government has a long history of not telling the truth until

their pants are on fire and the flames can be seen from the moon. I'm first on the flight path. I pray for us all.

[Xenotime]

7. I hear an expert say...

"I know of no emergency action plans that involve the use of sea water."

[snagglepuss]

20. He is saying using seawater was a desperate measure

indicating there were no other means available.

[whosinpower]

8. It means they have written off

any hope whatsoever of saving the reactor for further use. I just hope that the seawater does the trick and cools the rods off quickly and safely enough to stop a complete meltdown and its hazards of long term radiation poisoning.

And perhaps this will force them to rethink the other 50 odd reactors they have...in terms of failsafe methods to keep those pumping systems working in the event of any sort of shutdown. It would appear that this is a weak link....as other plants are having the exact same sort of issue.

[thewiseguy]

9. They have measured radioactive cesium and iodine in the air on Saturday night

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.quake.nuclear.failure/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

Have not been able to get close to the core to confirm a meltdown but suspect that it is taking place due to their air measurements.

[wtmusic]

10. "Experts"? Robert Alvarez is an activist with no training in nuclear power

and spreading bullshit like this is criminal.

STFU, Robert. :grr:

[snagglepuss]

27. Oh really. You're the one who seems to speading the BS.

snip

Between 1993 and 1999, Mr. Alvarez served as a Senior Policy Advisor to the Secretary and Deputy Assistant Secretary for National Security and the Environment. While at DOE, he coordinated the effort to enact nuclear worker compensation legislation. In 1994 and 1995, Bob led teams in North Korea to establish control of nuclear weapons materials. He coordinated nuclear material strategic planning for the department and established the department’s first asset management program. Bob was awarded two Secretarial Gold Medals, the highest awards given by the department.

Prior to joining the DOE, Mr. Alvarez served for five years as a Senior Investigator for the U. S. Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs, chaired by Senator John Glenn, and as one of the Senate’s primary staff experts on the U.S. nuclear weapons program. While serving for Senator Glenn, Bob worked to help establish the environmental cleanup program in the Department of Energy, strengthened the Clean Air Act, uncovered several serious nuclear safety and health problems, improved medical radiation regulations, and created a transition program for communities and workers affected by the closure of nuclear weapons facilities. In 1975 Bob helped found and direct the Environmental Policy Institute (EPI), a respected national public interest organization. He helped enact several federal environmental laws, wrote several influential studies and organized successful political coalitions. He helped organize a successful lawsuit on behalf of the family of Karen Silkwood, a nuclear worker and active union member who was killed under mysterious circumstances in 1974.

Bob Alvarez is an award winning author and has published articles in prominent publications such as Science Magazine, the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, Technology Review and The Washington Post. He has been featured in television programs such as NOVA and 60 Minutes.


http://www.ips-dc.org/staff/bob

[wtmusic]

30. I swear, sometimes people post shit without reading it themselves.

He's an activist with no scientific training and - again - no background in nuclear power. :eyes:

[snagglepuss]

38. You are trying to smear him. He clearly has the background to comment on what is

happening. People don't need degrees in Nuclear Physics to understand the industry. The bullshit you're spreading is no different than corporate shills who resort to these tactics to discredit critics.

[uppityperson]

39. Would you please edit that?

Take out the insult? Thanks.

[Hannah Bell]

47. do you see anything that says he's a scientist rather than an activist/politician?

[uppityperson]

32. How is this bullshit? Serious question. Since i am OP I'd like to know why you consider

it bullshit, please. THank you.

[wtmusic]

33. Um, because he has no background in what he's talking about? nt

[uppityperson]

35. I question the Chernobyl comparison, but other than that, seems what I've read elsewhere is

that using salt water they are trying to contain it and planning on abandoning it afterwards. AM I hearing you right in that your complaint is with Alvarez, not the info? Again, serious question. I am trying to not post sensationalistic bs since there is plenty of that already. Thanks.
-------------------------------------------------------------

US nuclear experts warn that pumping sea water to cool a quake-hit Japanese nuclear reactor is an "act of desperation" that may foreshadow a Chernobyl-like disaster, AFP reports. "The situation has become desperate enough that they apparently don't have the capability to deliver fresh water or plain water to cool the reactor and stabilise it, and now, in an act of desperation, are having to resort to diverting and using sea water," said Robert Alvarez, who works on nuclear disarmament at the Institute for Policy Studies

[wtmusic]

44. I'd like to see the AFP source but can't find it - hard to tell without that

Their use of the word "experts" might mean an actual nuclear engineer is backing him up.

Or, it's their version of Fox's "some say..."

[uppityperson]

45. Rather like my complaints on threads saying "may".

[wtmusic]

46. exactly.

:thumbsup:

[Hannah Bell]

48. was your complaint that people were reading "may" as "is" or "will"?

i have that same complaint.

i really don't get why people do that.

[uppityperson]

49. Yes. The moon may fall out of the sky tomorrow. OMG THE MOON IS FALLING!!!!1111

I hate reporters that use that word. Good grief, quit trying to make predictions into news and how about just reporting what happens?

I guess too many people want to predict.

[Fuddnik]

58. They are abandoning it.

According to MSNBC.com, they're also pumping in boric acid to absorb neutrons, and once the reactor has been contaminated with boric acid or seawater, it's unusable in the future.

[grasswire]

12. does anyone have a jet stream forecast?

I'd like to see the path for the next ten days.

[Paradoxical]

14. Path of what?

[grasswire]

15. air current

[Paradoxical]

16. Why do you want to know about the air currents?

That's what I'm asking.

[upi402]

19. Are you on the beach on the west coast showing us all is well?

Are you so certain? Or just what is your agenda?

[Paradoxical]

26. My agenda is to stop people from running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

Do you have any evidence at all suggesting that there is any reason to believe that the United States is at risk of exposure to considerable amounts of radiation?

If not, are you not simply being a reactionary?

[uppityperson]

That is why people are asking for information.

[Rex]

37. I thought it was to talk down to people, sure seems that way.

:eyes:

[tekisui]

42. What does any of that matter? The poster asked a question.

If you don't want to or can't answer, you should keep your condescension to yourself.

[uppityperson]

43. Thank you Obi-wan. You are our only hope

[TahitiNut]

51. !

:rofl:

[tekisui]

31. If you don't want to answer or don't know, why do you care?

[upi402]

53. ooh-ooh-ooh I know I know!

To push nuclear power and downplay the very real dangers of it.

lol
Like looking through a window. Maybe the posts indicate a true beleif and we threaten that faith - I really don't know, makes no sense to me.

[upi402]

18. here

http://www.stormsurfing.com/cgi/display_alt.cgi?a=npac_250

I got serious flack asking for this yesterday

[StarryNite]

28. Swell :(

:scared:

[dixiegrrrrl]

50. Thank you for that page. I had been looking for it.

[upi402]

52. It took me a while to get it...

like a full day!
Another DUer provided it.
:hi:
Potassium Iodine (KI) is sold out in supplement stores my area, pharmacies don't know what I'm talking about.

[upi402]

17. uppityperson weren't you just poo-pooing this?

Maybe I have you confused, or maybe you got some convincing info. Seems there are some come to Jesus moments happening around this in any event.
Here's a wind prediction map;
http://www.stormsurfing.com/cgi/display_alt.cgi?a=npac_250

I was friggin' pilloried asking for this yesterday!

[uppityperson]

29. No poopooing but complaining about "may" and other such usage of words.

Trying to post what info I find and "may" is too much of a qualifier. The situation is changing all the time and the info getting out is many rumors and some reality and it can be difficult to tell which is which since those involved are involved and not able to spend time telling us.

Thanks for the map.

[upi402]

54. Remember all the denials, lies, and minimizing in past years?

It taught me a lesson. And now we have a wholly-owned corporatist media as a secondary filter of fact. Outside sources and plenty of 'em are how I put stuff together. Have for decades!
We're not getting concrete details, 'may' is all we get. So we have to do our own investigating. Japan is not forthcoming, and our media has a nuclear agenda (anti-green).

[uppityperson]

55. It is very difficult to know who to trust and when

It will take a while to figure out wtf happened after it is over.

[upi402]

56. On the west coast there is no time to wait until it's "over"

'Over' could mean thyroid cancer, or childhood lukemia for my kid.
It's not helpful to have ignorant, stubborn, short-sighted, comments made while trying to use this forum to gather and share info.

You should remember this, if you've forgotten:
If we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.

If we wait for officials to be open and accurate we're all gonna die waiting. Christ, even gravitation is a theory. If you don't know who to trust, look at history and follow the money.

[uppityperson]

57. It's also not helpful to have rumors and hysterical comments made while trying to use this forum

Hence my distrust of "news" stating something MAY happen. It WILL take time to figure out what happened, and as the situation is fluid, is changing, things are not staying the same.

Why so condescending and insulting?

[upi402]

63. I'm asking you

Why so condescending and insulting?
You've come around to where I was when you were condescending and insulting initially to me, good.

But you still have a blind spot. You don't like the taste of your own medicine, so please don't be so quick to dish it out. Or accept that you did and make amends.
Just a suggestion, worth what you paid for it.

[uppityperson]

64. wtf?

No, I am not poopooing this like you asked. I was complaining about usage of "may" in news reports vs reporting what happens. It is very difficult to know who to trust and when as yes, we have been lied to. It will take a while to figure out wtf happened after it is over.

I am very sorry that you take this as condescending and insulting. It is simply how I feel about this fluid changing tragic situation.

Please point out where I am condescending and insulting as I didn't mean to be.

Also, please point out what you mean by "It's not helpful to have ignorant, stubborn, short-sighted, comments made while trying to use this forum to gather and share info." Thank you.

[tigereye]

21. what I read and was told is that these facilities are of the

type that have much superior containment compared to Chernobyl. Not the same.

[wtmusic]

23. The quoted source is peddling hysteria. nt

[uppityperson]

34. What of the OP is "hysteria"? Serious question, I question the "chernobyl" comparison

but other than that? Thanks
" US nuclear experts warn that pumping sea water to cool a quake-hit Japanese nuclear reactor is an "act of desperation" that may foreshadow a Chernobyl-like disaster, AFP reports. "The situation has become desperate enough that they apparently don't have the capability to deliver fresh water or plain water to cool the reactor and stabilise it, and now, in an act of desperation, are having to resort to diverting and using sea water," said Robert Alvarez, who works on nuclear disarmament at the Institute for Policy Studies"

[wtmusic]

40. Mostly the Chernobyl quote

but calling using seawater an "act of desperation" is just silly.

They're using whatever they have to try to prevent a release of radiation. Period.

[uppityperson]

41. Thanks, the Chernobyl quote is overkill, however, since they don't have enough

fresh water and are using salt water with the idea of then abandoning it later, isn't this act of desperation? They are desperate to stop it, so using salt water? I see what you mean about sensationalism and agree.

[dixiegrrrrl]

62. And this? Is this also hysteria?:

"Breaking on MSNBC: Meltdown likely underway at second reactor, Japan Government Says"

Second nuclear meltdown likely under way in Japan, official says
Seawater poured in to cool 1 reactor; venting starts at 2nd; thousands evacuated

Fuel rods were briefly exposed and radiation levels briefly rose above the legal limit at the nuclear plant where both reactors are located, said Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42044156/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

[Poll_Blind]

24. Here we go...

PB

[Cetacea]

25. Expert: gov and utility have history of not being forthcoming

CNN

[Whisp]

61. yah, not like your Bush buddy's admin, eh Blitz? so forthcoming. fuck ya.

[InvisibleTouch]

36. And then they will dump the radioactive seawater back out into the ocean?

Hopefully that's NOT how it works, but who knows, at this point.

All of this underscores the absolute insanity of building these nuke plants to begin with. Put all that money and effort into solar, wind, and new clean technology.

[Fuddnik]

60. Uh-oh.

Don't they have enough problems without unleashing Godzilla again?

[Cali_Democrat]

59. Fuck!

Now I'm officially scared.