How many ways can you save?

[PhillySane]

Reducing energy consumption is maybe the best way to insure we have enough. We all know how to do it.

Keep your thermostats at livable temperatures, not comfortable ones. Buy more fresh food, more often, so you don't need to blast your refrigerator. Drive less. Turn things off that consume electricity when not in use, and try to use them less.

But does anyone have a tip to share that maybe isn't so obvious?

I always charge my cell phone in my car whenever I can, so I'm not using additional energy to do this. Maybe we can all share some ideas. What's yours?

[rurallib]

1. Well just like my dad used to do - lights off when not in a room

doors shut tight, turn off appliances not in use (hey, are you watching that TV?)

[PhillySane]

2. Nope

gave it up years ago

[we can do it]

26. TV What's That - Glad To Be Off the BoobToob

[Fumesucker]

3. Buying more fresh food more often is going to take more driving..

At least it is for me, there is no shopping at all within walking range and public transportation is but a fantasy here.

And unless you turn off the refrigerator it's going to make very little difference to energy usage how much there is in it.

[PhillySane]

6. Well I guess I'm lucky

We have many local grocery shops that you can walk to. Still, there must me something you can do? I was hoping for posiitve feedback here. Anything?

[Fumesucker]

20. My home is 240 square feet..

My electric bill in the coldest part of the winter was $85 and I have electric heat.

My motorcycle gets over 50 mpg at 70 mph on the highway, I don't own a car or a TV.

All my lamps are compact florescent.

[Shagbark Hickory]

28. Just curious, where do you live where you can have a 240 sf home? NYC or something? nt

[PhillySane]

44. Tiny Houses!

check em out

http://tinyhouseblog.com/tiny-house/tiny-house-plans/

[Shagbark Hickory]

73. Right but there are zoning regulations that often don't permit dwellings under a certain size.

If you read that blog (if it's the one I think it is), you'll see the guy had to put the thing on a trailer to make it compliant.

[CTyankee]

105. I have a friend who lives in a pretty small house in Branford, CT.

It's old and 3 stories, but each floor is very small. It's an old house in an area near the Sound, kind of a Yankee Clipper captain's house, or more likely, one that a crew member of those old ships lived in with his family. You really have to creep up the stairs, they are so narrow. But it is stylishly spare and she has put minimal furniture and stuff into it. She likes living near the water and in an out of the way location...hard to find this place, the streets are so tiny and a bit complicated...

[Fumesucker]

I live in this..

[etherealtruth]

31. You should be a model/ inspiration for all of us

Sacrifice is hard .... trying to maintain our current levels of consumption is disastrous.

[Fumesucker]

106. I tend to think of myself more as a bad example actually..

It would not be a good thing for the world if everyone was like me..

Trust me on this.

:hi:

[etherealtruth]

108. LOL

I'll trust you :evilgrin:

[hfojvt]

81. the coldest part of winter?

In Atlanta?

What, did the overnight low get down to 40 degrees or something?

[Fumesucker]

100. About twelve actually.

I have seen it below zero F here in the past although it's been quite a while..

I bet it never gets as hot and humid where you are as it does here though.. :eyes:

[etherealtruth]

4. we all can and should do more to reduce our consumption

The larger issue is implementing societal change .... small efficient homes (<1,000 sf), small cars .... efficient mass transit, investment in industrial processes that conserve energy (vs $$$) .... imagine how much power we would save.

Societal change comes very slowly ....but, so does change in reliance on energy sources .... both need to occur.

[PhillySane]

8. I just think we all need to encourage each to do it.

Share ideas. Practical things. I know it sounds too simple, but if everyone did it all the time, it would make a difference.

[etherealtruth]

13. It would

[Statistical]

17. One thing the govt can do is mandate higher standards...

For example the minimum allowed r-factor (measure of insulation effectiveness) is pathetically low in the US. Most countries have much higher requirements. Yeah it is expensive and builders don't like it because potential buyers can't see that cost but it is the right thing to do. Increasing the R-factor in attic and wall insulation by 50% would require insulation that is TWICE the cost but compared to total cost of home it would raise cost by maybe 1%-2%. The payoff is 20%-30% lower heating cooling energy requirements for the life of the building.

Think about that. If you could go back in time and pay the builder 2% more in exchange your heating and cooling costs would be 20% lower forever would you?

Similar things should be done for A/C units. Minimum allowed SEER is 13 (it only takes SEER 14 to be energy star) but we have SEER 28 units on the market (less than half the electricity for the same amount of cooling). SEER 35 units are possible in the lab. Higher energy standards mean companies will invest more to make those higher units low cost (rather than niche).

[etherealtruth]

24. For me, this is the larger part

We all have personal responsibilities .... however, in order to achieve the massive change we need (on a societal level) ... we need strong and knowledgeable leadership.

I fear our government has interest in nothing but immediate corporate profit :(

[PhillySane]

47. True, but

when demand goes down, they can't make those profits. Witness the oil boom/bust in 2008. When people stopped buying cars, gas prices dropped.
Which is why the major corporations spend so much money to convince us all that we need more and more and more. Resist! Resist!

[etherealtruth]

52. Oh yes ....

I'm old enough to remember Jimmy Carter being mocked for his stance on energy conservation. Had we only listened to him then ...

Our corporate overlords (and their lackeys aka our elected representatives) do all they can to encourage us to use use use :(

[Horse with no Name]

58. Problem is too

When demand goes down, prices go up.
They are going to get our money no matter what we do.

[roguevalley]

80. get power strips and put your stuff on it. turn them off when you

don't use them. I went from $195/mon to 40.

[PhillySane]

90. Good one

just remembered today that I had stuff on upstairs and ran up to shut em down.

[HillbillyBob]

112. Our place has 2x4 walls with only that much fiberglass and 3" of

loose fill in attic. The house is a 1995 modular.. think Double Wide, but it is hurricane rated, we have seen gusts to 90 so far with few problems (aside from lifting shingles!).

One of our plans to reduce energy use is to add 4" of styro panel to the roof and walls before the new metal roofing and siding go on.
We intend to change out the windows too. We likely have to do a total gut and rebuild in side so when we do we want to do away with the fiberglass insulation and spray foam in.

I wholly agree that insulation standards in the US are pitiful.

Some friends built a SIPS house a few years ago their roof is on the order of R59 and the walls are R45, which gives it LEED status even if they did not put in efficient appliances.

Our house is large for only two people, but we have family members that visit and with my illness we can't get by on only one bathroom.

We bought it because it was the only one we could afford the payments and still live in that we did not immediately have to replace the plumbing or missing walls, or rotting floors.

We plan to redo all three with dual flush and bidet, recirc hot water pump so no cold wash. That will save us something like 6 to 9g gallons of water per year and TP. The secondary bathrooms take 2 min or 3.5 gallons of water to get hot water.
There is not room or amperage for in line water heaters.
We are nearly off grid and getting lp gas tanks up here is a real chore. Some joker got stuck in our driveway and churned it to mud during the snow and ice and we had to leave our car out by the hard cap road and haul in what we did not already have. 10g of kero can get heavy! We will eventually be total solar for heating.

We already use low flow faucets and shower heads.

[Taitertots]

5. Unplug chargers and appliances when not in use, they can draw power even when they are off

Slightly less useful...
Eat with your hands and avoid washing silverware.
Use your hand instead of TP, you were going to wash them afterward anyway.
Sponge baths
Go on a diet


Rip the door panels, dash board, roof liner, trunk liner, all decorative but useless pieces out of your car to save weight.

[PhillySane]

9. I rarely wash anything

haven't gotten to no toilet paper yet, but try to use less all the time. Only recycled type.

Oh, and use fewer paper towels. Mostly rags and dishcloths.

[BadgerKid]

15. Some appliances don't draw when idle (Kill-A-Watt device).

Appliances with a built-in clock or that can be put in a standby mode draw power, just a few watts or so.

I checked a couple of years ago with one of these Kill-A-Watt devices:

http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html

[PhillySane]

19. Coffee Machines with clocks!

Unplug 'em. Does anybody use that thing to tell time? Do you really need coffee waiting when you get up?

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. I have a new coffee pot that turns off after it brews the coffee.

Cold coffee a half hour AFTER brewing? Yuck. So I have to zap it in the microwave.

Some energy savings. LOL

[PhillySane]

43. Maybe you'd be better off with a french press

just boil water. Hot coffee for one or two. Can't say I know which way uses less energy, electric coffeemaker or boiling water, but it's gotta be better than microwaving.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. It's at work

No hot plates allowed. I'm lucky they let me have a microwave and a coffee pot.

[HillbillyBob]

113. I got one with a stainless thermal carafe..its good for about 4 hrs..

by then I have used it either drinking or I use left over coffee in cooking too. I don't use salt but flavor food with coffee, onion, garlic or garlic powder or other seasonings.

Cook slow on low heat using a lid saves power and use much less water, saves the vitamins and flavor. Always simmer never boil.

All these changed in behavior take time to make them habit. I started doing one thing or two then went to the next.
I have always recycled, reused or repurposed.

Almost ll of the furniture is used or antique gleaned from yardsales to dumpsters and refinished or to be refinished. I have HIV, been through 4 bouts of colon cancer, heart and vein problems and seizures..that is why its taking me so long to really get any of the projects finished or financed.

[devils chaplain]

101. +1 for Kill-A-Watts

After using it on all my devices (in on, off, and "sleep" modes if it had one) I learned an awful lot of surprising things. Some stuff that I thought used very little power used quite a bit, and some things that I thought were very energy draining turned out not to be.

[onethatcares]

7. park that thing and walk the two blocks

even three if you want. You'll feel better in your wallet, your heart and your neighborhood.

take cooler showers, you don't need 145 degree water hitting your skin.

[Warpy]

10. How many ways?

I use a solar oven in summer to cut down on cooking and cooling costs.

I use an evaporative cooler rather than refrigerated air to save on cooling costs. It works OK in the desert for all but a few days during monsoon season. I just suck it up those days.

I haven't owned any vehicle with more than 4 cylinders since 1969. I plan shopping and errand trips to consolidate them and make sure I go in a circle instead of back and forth, back and forth. Since I do city driving, I insist on a standard tranny. If I lived in the boonies, I'd use automatic.

My old water heater is turned all the way down, about 120 degrees. That's warm enough for laundry, dishes and showering. When it conks out, I'm going tankless. The pipes are insulated.

The stove is electronic ignition. When I had pilot lights, I turned them off and used a spark lighter. Pilot lights suck up a lot of energy.

I use old sponges instead of paper towels for spills, sponges that have gotten too ratty to do dishes with.

I have an old floor furnace, so I close off rooms I'm not using in the winter to save on heating costs.

I could also go on all day about what a cheapskate I am but will take pity on everybody right here and stop.

[PhillySane]

11. No, those are great!

Just what I was hoping to hear. Thanks for the tips.

[BadgerKid]

12. Recharge electronics at employer's.

It seems grey ethically, but if your work involves electronics or computers perhaps is it less so.

[Statistical]

14. Upgrade to most energy efficient models you can. (A list of tips I have used).

Usually it doesn't make economic sense to upgrade just for the sake of upgrading but say your AC breaks. Buying a SEER 20 unit will reduce your future energy consumption by about 35% compared to SEER 13 unit (minimum now allowed by law). Older units (installed in 1980s) may be as low as SEER 8 or 12 so the energy savings from your existing unit is even more.

To get the most bang for you buck spend the most money on the appliances that use the most energy.

For average household 80%+ of energy usage is:
Heating
Cooling
Hot Water
Lighting

Buying an highly efficient refrigerator is nice but if one a budget putting more money towards higher efficiency furnace or AC pays a larger "dividend.

Lastly insulation, insulation, insulation. Most houses in the US are very poorly insulated (usually the min allowed by law because insulation cost money and potential buyers can't "see" the benefit). Adding higher R factor (measure of insulation - blocking) insulation to your attic is a messy and labor intensive job but something most homeowners can do themselves. Most home improvement stores will let you rent an insulation blower sometimes for free is you buy insulation. Personally I prefer the rolls of insulation but they are more expensive and more labor intensive. When you upgrade/replace windows compare insulation ratings. A cheaper alternative is heat blocking drapes. Make sure they are THERMAL drapes otherwise they are just cosmetic.

Lastly PV solar (electricity) can be large and expensive but solar hot water heater is much cheaper and can be installed by a competent DIYer. We use thermal solar as a preheater for our tankless hot water heater. In tankless the amount of energy used is directly the difference between inlet water temp and the desired water temp. By raising the inlet temp (comes from solar hot water tank) it cuts the energy used in half.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. I bought a hybrid car

Tomorrow it goes on its first long road trip.

I'm enjoying the savings on gas. :woohoo:

[Taitertots]

18. Are you aware that you are likely to produce more pollution?

While costing more money than a non-hybrid car.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. No I wasn't aware of that

I'm also supposedly at risk for having a wreck when my accelerator sticks. Of course, that's what the internets says. :)

So far, no problems. And I LOVE 48 mpg.

[Taitertots]

34. Those batteries have to come from somewhere

And they have to be made out of something, and it has to go somewhere after the car dies.

You could get comparable mileage by conscientiously driving any compact car.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. Bullshit - 48 mpg??

I have driven compact cars for years. NEVER got more than about 35 mpg - and that was rare.

[Taitertots]

40. Lupo goes around the world 2.38 liters per 100 km

http://www.diskdrive.co.za/newsstories/vw_lupo3ltdi.html

Or better mpg in a VAN!
http://www.diskdrive.co.za/newsstories/chrysler_voyager_diesel_record.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. LOL! Ok, I'll go to Europe to buy my next car.

[Taitertots]

46. Or you could buy a compact car in America and drive it conscientiously

You would still get comparable fuel economy to a prius.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. Like I said - bullshit

Been there. Tried that.

[Taitertots]

56. Then you need to learn how to drive, because other people have no problem doing it

The only bullshit must be your driving ability.

[etherealtruth]

49. You are consciously trying

You made an investment in a newer technology ... also good.

The only point I want to make is that my 2009 Ford Focus gets between 38-40 mpg on the freeways. That's good for me .... but, my purchase did nothing to encourage the development and improvement of new(er) technologies ...yours did.

[Brickbat]

67. We get 40 with our union-made-in-the-USA Focus.

[etherealtruth]

82. Thats about what I get 38-40 highway

[Shagbark Hickory]

102. You'd get 52 with a 1991 Geo Metro XFI.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySidePopUp.jsp?column=1&id=7608

[Shagbark Hickory]

103. You'd get 52 with a 1991 Geo Metro XFI.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySidePopUp.jsp?column=1&id=7608

[NYC_SKP]

72. *Link Please to Reliable Source that Says Hybrids are More Polluting* (thanks in advance)

Will also need to define "pollution" and determine which is worse, CO2 from burning petrol versus whatever awful 'pollution' hybrids produce.

There's a very nasty myth about Hummers being greener than a Prius.

Needs to stop.

Here.

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=8560

http://www.thecarconnection.com/tips-article/1010861_prius-versus-hummer-exploding-the-myth

http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/27/prius-easily-beats-hummer-in-life-cycle-energy-use-dust-to-dust-report-has-no-basis-in-fact/

:hi:

[Taitertots]

76. What a cute little straw man you brought in here

Why not actually get into the conversation instead of obfuscating and derailing it with non-sense?

Compare the hybrid to a non-hybrid COMPACT car. There is no doubt that conventional cars can meet or exceed the fuel consumption of hybrids without the pollution associated with battery production. I have clearly demonstrated this in the previous posts.


I'm looking for the actual MIT and Carnegie Melon studies they cite in the paper.
http://www.greenfootsteps.com/hybrid-car-disadvantages.html

[NYC_SKP]

77. Ya. He can drive around in the "Lupo" you parked in this thread.

Or the Diesel Voyager, neither vehicle for sale in the US market.

:hi:

[Taitertots]

79. Jetta TDI Clean Diesel gets 42 mpg and it is for sale in America n/t

[PhillySane]

91. Had one

my daughter has it now. Avoid Jettas with sun roofs. Caused all kind of water leaks and water damage. Air filtration was messed up on these too several years back. There's a class action law suit pending with VW of America.

[Le Taz Hot]

22. I have a few . . .

I use a drying rack to dry clothes/towels/sheets, etc. Saves me TONS when the weather is warm and it makes my clothes smell really good.

When I cook, I try to cook in large batches and freeze the extra (my freezer is going anyway).

I do massive amounts of home canning in the spring/summer/early fall. Saves trips to the grocery store and I don't have to buy out-of-season, shipped-from-3,000-miles-away cardboard-tasting produce.

I try to do a lot of baking and stock making in the winter as the stove/oven is on for a longer period of time WHILE I'm heating up the front area of my house so I don't have to use the heater.

I try to make use of my pressure cooker (cooks food REALLY fast) and my crock pot (slow and low).

When I have to use the heater/air conditioner, I heat/cool ONLY the room(s) we're going to be in, not the whole house. I abandoned my forced-air cooling system a few years ago and opted for 2 window units instead. It cut my energy bill down by 2/3.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. We also changed to window units. The savings is incredible!

Smart move. I highly recommend it.

[Shagbark Hickory]

27. Suprised you advocate window units. They are hugely inefficient!

Merely cooling one room does not mean you're getting better efficiency even though the cost is lower.

[Le Taz Hot]

32. Maybe I need to clarify.

Where I live, 113 degrees in the summer is not unusual. From 103-108 from June through September is normal. As far as lower cost, all I know is that my P.G. & E. bill went from over $600.00 a month to about $250.00 a month in the summer when I went from forced air to window units. My advocacy was window units OVER forced air units (those are my choices). Other than going solar (which I plan to do if I ever have a job again), I'm not sure what other more efficient methods I should be using. Any suggestions?

[Shagbark Hickory]

33. Here's a clarification of what I meant...

If you have 5 rooms in your house, but you can only be in one room at a time, using one space heater or portable A/C is going to use less energy than using a central air system cooling all the rooms simultaneously. But central air, at least in my experience is far less costly to operate than if you were to run portable air conditioners or space heaters in more than one room at time.

Space heaters on the highest setting they generally come in run 1500 watts and since they never catch up in our climate, they run continuously.

In the summer time with portable air conditioners, they run about 500 watts.

If it gets into the 100's in your climate, I cannot imagine how the hassle it is worth the cost savings if you want to go into another room that has heated up to 90 degrees and have to run a unit in that room to cool it down.

If you camp out in one room of the house, then you're ok. But if you're going to do that, then you may as well live in a yurt or underground dwelling.

You can forget about a solar system running a space heater or more than one window a/c. Unless you have gobs of money. In which case, you'd be happier with central air.

[Le Taz Hot]

38. Interesting.

I did try using a space heater two years ago. My P.G. & E. went from $250.00 to $600.00 so I sold the space heater. I think I'd be too afraid I'd have the same experience with a portable air conditioner (last I saw, cost was about $800.00 -- which is an impossible expense). The window units work because both my studio and the man cave/office/spare bedroom are all in the back of the house so it's pretty easy to camp out there. Also, one of the window units is in the office which must REALLY be cooled down in the summer with all the computers running.

Your comment about the yurt/underground dwelling notwithstanding, the ability to shut off significant portions of the house not being utilized allows for a little more variety both in utility and aesthetics.

[Patiod]

41. I used to hate having a house w/o central air

Now I'm happy that I can cool only the room I'm in, and most of the time a ceiling fan does all the cooling I need. The summer before last, we turned on a window a/c unit maybe three times.

[PhillySane]

48. Nice ideas taste good too!

Yum!

[Mabus]

68. We have an old-fashioned clothes line that we use

Using it during the spring, summer and fall doesn't unnecessarily heat up the house.

We've hung tapestries/blankets to block off rooms. That keeps the heat or cool air confined to the rooms that we're currently using. Our house doesn't have a lot of doors between rooms. The tapestries/blankets help give privacy and help muffle sounds which is nice when the kids are playing video games.

During the summer months we hang shade cloth over the windows outside to help cut down the heat entering the house. The cloth, which we also use to help keep our tomatoes from baking in the summer heat, when hung outside prevents the sun from heating up the windows and it's helped saved on cooling costs. Also, it allows us to open the windows on those cool days and air out the house. We can still see out the windows which is a plus for the dogs that love to keep an eye on the neighborhood. The shade cloth we put over the tomatoes/garden area also provides our dogs with a cool place to hang out when they're outside in the summer.

We also garden. This means fewer trips to the store for fresh vegetables (not to mention that stuff from the garden is more flavorful). It also means that we spend more time outside which in turn acclimates us to warmer temperatures so we don't need to turn up the a/c as much when we're inside.

We also cook in large batches. This means I don't have to eat processed crap for lunch during the week.

This year, we're going to put a couple of trees in the front yard to help shade the house during the winter. A few years ago we repainted/recaulked the house which has also yielded a lot of savings.

[Le Taz Hot]

104. +100

It's amazing how much you can do if you just think about it. Developed over a period of time you can get a nearly perfect system of water/soil conservation, crop production, and shading for your home.

[Shagbark Hickory]

29. I think one area that a lot of people splurge is on coffee and soda or sugary drinks. If you switch

to tap water or even inexpensive 2 liter bottles of seltzer, it'll save you a lot of money.

[CTyankee]

35. I stopped buying bottled water several years ago. I never drink soda.

I'm fine with tap water.

I wash everything in cold water. I unplug any appliance that I can when not in use.

Planning errands with car so I'm consolidating the number of trips I need to make. I maintain and drive an old car that has been paid for since 2001.

As hubby and I have aged we have had to get some help with the lawn and with snow removal, but we just cut back other ways (cheaper haircuts and help with heavy cleaning once a month instead of twice). A very strict budget on clothing (since we are both retired). I literally wear things out!

[Shagbark Hickory]

37. Then you're ahead of the game and I'm guessing that you feel better than u would on a diet of

liquid crack and sugary sodas.

[CTyankee]

60. If I did ONE thing in my adult life to improve my financial well being it would be developing an

annual budget. Simply having a budget shows me where I need to cut back, where I CAN cut back and helps me with flexibility and security in my life. It gives me control and having that is worth a LOT. I am baffled that so many people don't have budgets...

[Shagbark Hickory]

70. They don't teach that in high school. I went to a very expensive prep school.

They didn't teach us how to make a budget.

[CTyankee]

78. Heh. I'm laughing because my granddaughter just got into a nice prep school

and I'll bet she won't be doing budget development...she IS going to be continuing with her sailing lessons and be rowing on the girls crew races...

[Shagbark Hickory]

98. But those are usefull skills.

Especially if you need to row around border crossings to get into other countries.

[CTyankee]

99. Well, she sails around Chappaquiddick Island in the summer...oops, I

meant "Chappy."

[Mimosa]

62. My ATL tap water was undrinkable this am

It smelled like ca-ca. In my N. Buckhead neighbourhood the tap water often smells and tastes gag inducing. We use a Brita filter pitcher to make it drinkable.

[CTyankee]

93. I don't blame you. We DO have a bit of a chemical smell in our New Haven water, but it isn't

egregious. I have a water filter on my ice maker/water dispenser in my refrigeration...

[PhillySane]

51. Tap water is the way to go.

First of all, we are lucky to have more clean drinking water that comes from our taps than many others around the world. Many countries do not. I'm not saying its the healthiest, just that we've got more cleaner water than a lot of people around the world. Not using it is wasteful. Buying water that's been shipped from god knows where inside plastic (petroleum-based) bottles is wasteful.

[Shagbark Hickory]

30. Call up your insurance company and ask them if they can lower your rates.

since the cost of construction went down.
Do the same with auto if you haven't been in any wrecks since your car is only going down in value.

[eleny]

39. We didn't have kids

[etherealtruth]

53. That choice is a huge resource saver

Those of us that have had children need to be super aware of our consumption

[eleny]

61. And so do we

Nobody can escape the need to do better.

[madokie]

45. Considering that the exhaust from an internal combustion engine is dirtier than most power plants

I'd say you've been mis-lead on this idea of charging your phone from the automobile engine. The energy to charge that phone comes from either gas or diesel in that case.

[PhillySane]

55. I don't drive to charge

but if I'm driving anyway, I use the energy from the car to charge the phone. Rather than have it plugged into the grid separately, using additional electricity up. It's just a simple thing. But I think there are many things like this we can think of.

[madokie]

57. So you think that the energy to charge that phone comes from thin air

any additional load such as charging a phone as simple as that is, you put on that engine will require it to burn more fuel. Can't you see that?

[PhillySane]

75. okay

correct me if I'm wrong. I always believed that the electric power comes from the battery. The battery is charged by the car's generator. When the battery has a full charge, then the energy you are using to drive with (and nothing else) goes wasted. By plugging in, you are utilizing this wasted energy.

Right or wrong?

[madokie]

86. No wasted energy there

when the car is traveling down the road the alternator is supplying the energy for the electrical needs of the auto, whether it be lights or the running of the engine. Never is any energy being wasted by the alternator. If by chance the charging system is not calling for energy then none is being produced by the alternator but that is never the case unless the auto is parked with the engine turned off. Once the battery is fully charged after starting the engine then the alternator is only producing the energy that is needed to run that vehicle so any additional load is making the alternator produce that extra energy and when it is making more energy the load on the gas/diesel engine is greater, ever so small but making energy nonetheless and that extra energy is coming from the fuel tank. Its cleaner to charge the phone at the plug in the house because we have a mix of energy producers be it coal, natural gas, nuclear wind or solar, they all play a part in our energy grid. Coal would be the worse polluter in that mix

:hi:

[PhillySane]

88. Thanks

[HillbillyBob]

114. We charge our phones via USB on computer, that eliminates a second

wall warts extra watts used.

Come on charging a phone via the cars lighter socket does not put enough load on the engine to make any appreciable difference.
Now if you were running an inverter and a fridge in the back seat yea it would cause the charge regulator to call for more power.

[madokie]

115. Any load added to the alternator no matter how small is going to put a bigger load on the engine

driving that alternator. An increase in load no matter how small is still going to cause the engine, in this case, to use a tad more fuel.

[Sedona]

59. DUH!

These forums helped my family make through a year of un/under employment in 2008/2009

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=353

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=246

Thanks DU'ers

:hi:

[starroute]

63. You remind me that I need to clean out my refrigerator

All those old bottles of preserves and sauces and chutneys that turn out to be not that yummy but that just drift to the back and stay there forever really cut down on the efficiency and force it to work harder.

Same for the bags of things like oat bran that I tossed in there because I don't use them fast enough to keep them at room temperature.

I hate to throw food away when it's still theoretically usable. But hanging onto food that I may never use can be just as much of a burden on the planet.

[Horse with no Name]

64. Everything we do is little

but those things add up.

We lower the thermostat.

Changed out lightbulbs.

We use dishtowels and cloth napkins--only paper product we buy is toilet paper.

Utilize Goodwill/yard sales/thrift shops when making purchases.

I made my own swiffer mop covers with old diapers.

Cooking more, eating out less.

Cloth grocery bags.

Our old clothes either go to a resale shop or a local clothing charity.


There are a few other little things that we do to conserve but these are the easiest to incorporate into your lifestyle.

This year, my family sat 3 goals.

1. Use more coupons. Shop better. The things that we get good deals on that we don't use--we send to the food pantry or the homeless shelter.

2. Reduce our belongings. Pare down to necessities and sentimental things. Get rid of STUFF!

3. A garden. This is where I fall short every year. I think I try to hard each year, but this year I limited to peppers, potatoes, tomatoes, onions and cucumbers. The peppers, tomatoes and onions will also be utilized for homemade salsa for Christmas.

I have picked up one thing we didn't plan for this year--and that is making my own detergent. I am going to attempt a batch next week.

[Sedona]

66. I made my own dish and clothing detergent

I made dishwasher/clothing detergent while unemployed. It takes a LONG time, 2-3 hours. Make sure you dissolve the clothing detergent (even the liquid/get type) in water before you put the clothes in or you get white dusty gunk on your clothes. The dishwasher detergent was a failed experiment...white gunk on dishes every time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfEJHb5lfds

Now I have a great job and the cost benefit analysis of working vs spending hours making soap come out on the working side.

Its nice to know I can do it if it ever comes to that again.

I live in Arizona and block off my sunny windows in the summer with paper temporary darkening shades and cut cooling costs in half. I reused them for three years before they got to the point where I need to buy new ones, which I will this summer. $50 to save a thousand over three years. Easy call.

[Mimosa]

65. Well, we could all just die. LOL

I think most people (at least those I know) aren't rich enough to be wasteful. For instance, who here has a second home? My 2 person 1 cat family hasn't had a second car.

I don't think it does much good to be self-flagellating.

Here's an interesting article about lithium resources which will fuel the batteries of electric cars and laptops, Ipads etc.

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-06/why-finding-lithium-afghanistan-big-deal-even-if-it-never-leaves-ground

I've often suspected the US and UK are fighting in Afghanistan to secure the stable supply of lithium and other 'rare earths.'

[cbayer]

69. If you think about consumables (primarily water and electricity) as being available only

in limited quantities, it will drastically change your patterns of use.

If you ever get a chance to take a voyage on a small boat, you were learn quickly how to conserve. When the supply is limited or it requires an effort on your part to replenish it, you become much more thoughtful about every bit of it.

When it seems to run endlessly from the tap or plug, there is just much less motivation to conserve it.

[PhillySane]

71. I agree

This should be something that we are stay aware of every day. None of this stuff will last forever.

I often think that we are tricked into believing that we should always have a lot, so we don't run out. But, I think the opposite is true.

Example.

Buy just one roll of toilet paper instead of the giant-sized 40 roll pack.

You'll learn how to conserve.

[lumberjack_jeff]

74. Garden. Pantry. Canning. Woodstove. Clothesline. Screen doors.

What looks primitive is actually effective.

The cellphone isn't being charged for free. It's taking the same infinitesimal bit of power from the gas tank that it would have taken from your wall plug.

At 13 kwh for the 10min shower you took this morning, 45 seconds of showering is equal to the energy required to charge your cellphone for a year.

[PhillySane]

92. Who said I took a shower this morning?

:)

Really, showers are overrated.

[NYC_SKP]

83. Great Post. We need an entirely new way of thinking.

Ideas like turning off appliances and changing to CFLs (LEDs now) are the direct ways to save energy.
But energy and, consequently, GHG emissions, are consequences of thousands of decisions each of us makes every day.

You can lower your carbon footprint if you learn to ask these questions of every thing you use, buy, eat, throw away, etc.:

• Is it essential, do I have to use it or can I live without it?

• What purpose does it serve, what need does it fill? Can I fill that need in a different way?

• If I have to use it, can I use less of it or use it more wisely?

• Where does it come from, and is there a better or more local source for it?

• When I’m done with this item, where does it go, is it recycled or reused?

Hopefully, the next generation of world citizens will think differently about packaging, fashion, food, and everything else.

It's the only way.

Awareness and behavior changes and education are the only way.

:patriot:

[Liberal_in_LA]

84. k&r Important topic

Recycle?

[PhillySane]

89. Here in Philly

We recycle 100%. That means sorting out our stuff every week. All recyclables go into one bin, non-recyclables into another. Most everyone I know does a really good job of sorting their trash.

I also look for 100% recycled materials whenever I have to purchase them. I am very slow to throw things away if I think they have some other use. My house is cluttered with this kind of stuff. But I can't help it.

I will use a paper towel until it is soaked and brown before I throw it away. Maybe I have a disorder. But I really do think about this stuff all the time.

[cali]

85. your suggestion of buying more fresh foods more often "so you don't need to

blast your refrigerator" doesn't make a whole lot of sense. For many of us that involves a lot more driving.

[PhillySane]

87. Understood

I did post early that I'm lucky to have many local grown outlets near me within walking distance. For me it makes sense. Others maybe not. I just don't keep a lot of food in my house. I only cook and eat what I need for that day.

[cbayer]

94. Three products I recommend (two for laundry, one for heat)

1. Wonder Wash



http://www.laundry-alternative.com/products/Wonderwash.html

Uses 90% less water and detergent. No electricity required.


2. Mini countertop spin dryer



http://www.laundry-alternative.com/products/Mini_Countertop_Spin_Dryer.html

Minimal electricity draw. Clothes will dry on line in no time.


3. Ecofan



http://www.caframo.com/hearth/

If you have a wood or gas stove, these work great and take no electricity at all.

[uppityperson]

95. Eat local so food transportation costs fall, also eat less processed for same reason.

Don't buy new clothes every yr, have a few basics and accessorize.

[LiberalEsto]

97. I shop at yard sales

It's unbelievable the stuff you can find sometimes.

[dkofos]

96. WOW you must save micro-watts charging your phone in the car.

[LWolf]

107. Limit the number of babies you produce to 2 or less. nt

[SoCalDem]

109. a few suggestions that have helped me

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=383196&mesg_id=383196



Lots of people added their own suggestions too.. click link to read them too


SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat Mar-10-07 08:06 AM
Original message


Prepare your family for the hard times ahead.



No one is immune from the hard landing ahead.
Even with a democratic congress, we will still have almost 2 years left of this mal-adminstration to screw things up even more than they have.

As a boomer, I have lived through many recessions, and they are no fun..

The mini-recession (was it really even a real recession) in the post-Clinton /early Bush years was NOTHING compared to what may be looming on the horizon.

Many people are in way over their heads and a few missed paychecks can send them right onto the streets.

We all think that our family budget is carved in stone and there's no room for "adjustments", but in most cases that's not entirely true.



Easy stuff first:

1. Learn to cook:

......a) Even with higher grocery prices, it's still cheaper (and better for you ) to cook , than to order in, nuke a frozen dinner, or use prepared mixes
......b) grow some fresh veggies if you have some yard space
......c) stock up on bargains at the store when you see them
......d) shop with a list, and stick to it
......e) buy store brands whenever possible
......f) use coupons if they are for things you already buy
......g) Cook several meals at the same time and package your own "frozen dinners" for the rest of the week


2. GET RID OF YOUR CREDIT CARDS

.......a) If you cannot pay them off, please consider filing bankruptcy (if you qualify, and can do it). The deck is stacked against consumers, and it's only going to get worse, folks. The sooner you get "out from under", the sooner you can start rebuilding your financial stability .
........b) Keep ONE credit card with the lowest interest rate possible, and use it once a month (to keep it active)..and pay it in full BEFORE the due date..(If you need to rent a car or reserve a hotel room, you will need a credit card to avoid paying a large cash deposit.
.........c) If your bank offers it, use the online bill-paying service. This eliminates the cost of writing/mailing checks, and it provides a detailed record of what (and where) you are spending your money. It saves on postage too and gas..and time.
........d) Ask your bank for a checking account that comes with over-draft protection (ours has $1k) so if you ever screw up, you will not be charged a bunch of bank fees...or keep a savings account where you have your checking, so you could transfer (online) between accounts.
.......e) Buy a shredder and USE IT. Shred all papers that have any identifying information on them.
.......f) Pay your bills EARLY and pay extra if you can.

3. Examine your "extras".

.......a) Do you really "need" that cell phone package? Are your calls on it, the yak-yak killing-time calls or is it truly for "emergencies" like people tell themselves? Could you get by with a prepaid cheapo-phone that "lives in the car", and a cheaper "frill-free" land line for the yak-yak calls? (People managed this way for over 100 years)
.......b) Cut the cable bill by going to the bare-bones package and have friends tape the HBO stuff for you.
.......c) Take your lunch to work. Even $4-5 a day ends up being close to a Benjamin a month.
.......d) Send kids to school with a lunch too, It's better for them than what they get in the cafeteria. let them make their own, and they might accept it more.
........e) Shop the sales at upscale department stores, and you can often find better clothing/accessories than at Walmart/KMart/Target..and there is no stigma for shopping at resale shops/flea markets/yard sales.
.......f) PAY OFF YOUR VEHICLES (if you can) and figure out exactly what those extra cars are costing you. You have to consider insurance, gasoline, repairs, tires, finance charges.. the whole enchilada
.......g) Take a hard look at the secondary income job (usually the wife's). What are you actually getting to KEEP from that job, after the daycare costs, lunches at work, extra car expenses, extra costs associated with the job, and any income tax implications. Now figure out if it's actually worth the trouble. remember that you only get to spend what's left over, and often that part-time job ends up costing the family money in the long run.
......h) Start saying "We cannot afford that" to your kids. SHOW them the family budget and make them a part of the financial team.
......i) Cancel magazine subscriptions.. (Most probably don't even get read..or when family asks what you want for your birthday/xmas/etc , let THEM subscribe to your favorite magazine as your gift
.....j) When you eat out, go early and use coupons for meals if you get them

4. Maintain your appliances, cars & equipment. An annual "check-up" is cheaper than a complete breakdown.

5. Network and barter casually

.....a) Everyone has a special skill, so trade services within your group. (be careful how you do this, because the IRS is "interested" in bartering :).)..
......b) When you buy something pricey, show them cash and ask for a cash discount
......c) Shop in your community, with privately owned businesses, if you can. Often they deliver free and are eager to please you
......d) Ask your friends for referrals for things you need done (if you cannot do them yourself).
......e) If you have young kids, set up an "exchange" with other families..for clothes & toys.
......f) Set up or join a babysitting co-op (It's easy, fun and it's FREE babysitting (as in no money paid..just your time)

6. Consider "shared-housing" . If you are an empty-nester with a big house, you could "rent a room" to a single who cannot afford the high cost of an apartment..or you could incorporate a parent/grandparent into your home (cue fingernails on a chalkboard here)..but if it's the difference between losing your home or keeping it, you may need to consider this

7. Energy use can be cut down

....a) Obviously the new lightbulbs help, but there are other things you can do.
.....b) Do laundry & dishes at off-peak times
.....c) Close off registers in unused rooms
.....d) Set the turn-off timers on tvs incase you fall asleep
....e) Replace washers in faucets so they don't drip
.....f) Plan your shopping /errands in a circular trip.
.....g) Make sure your car has a locking gas cap




I've droned on long enough, but let me tell you, that when a REAL recession hits, and hits hard, many families will be hit hard. Most young folks have never experienced wage-freezes or 15% mortgage loans .. But when WE endured those things, there were no killer health care premiums or $25K cars or all the distractions we have today.

Start now and if it doesn't come to pass, you mightr only end up with a savings account & some good habits.. Wait too long, and you might be homeless and broke.

[HillbillyBob]

110. I have written several posts to this

We have invested 4000$ over 4 yrs and now we save about 2700 per year in electric bills alone. We are no longer using the heat pump it is a first or second generation and sucks power, we use only a small Kero heater, it heats the whole house down to about 5 degrees and keeps the kitchen 73-75 and 65 out in the ends of the house.

Small things, blackout curtain liners (insulated/ Lowes 25$ per window).
Buying LEDs 1 or 2 at a time we now have about half the lights in the house changed over. Do some research, if you want ones that are close to incandescent light get 2700 Kelvin temp. if you want white/bright look for 5500 kelvin or higher (55 is the exact frequency for indoor plants AND fends of SAD in winter.
Look for lumens per watt used..47 lumens per watt is a good place to start since that is where you really start saving on the power bill.

I have replaced the kitchen and greenhouse 4ft tubes with
22 watt LEDs from Eaglelight.com .. 55,000 degrees kelvin and 2000 lumens (40w fl tubes give around 1200 when new and drop off after a year).
A fluro fixture that has 2 40wt tubes and ballast uses about 100 110 watts.
The tubes use 22 watts each so thats about 80% power savings.
I have 3 outside floodlights, we took the 75 watt bulbs out and they have been replaced with 50 watt equivalents..that use only 4.5 watts. that is 4 1/2 watts. Besides we live out in the boonies and literally have deer walk right by the door (near food gardens) and its enough to run them off.
For 17 watts we light the entire garden,leds are better because they are directional and we light the ground and not the starry sky. It is not like we are lighting a baseball field, just enough light that we can see who or what is in the garden and to turn out the dogs.

When the old top loader died, we replaced with a front loader, saving up for it.
It saves us in a a few ways.
Clothes last longer, get cleaner on only 1 or 2 Tablespoons of soap, instead of 1/2 cup or more soap. We have red mud and it gets it out of jeans.
It uses only about 20 gallons to cycle a load of clothes(holds more too7 pair men's jeans) instead of 60 gallons the toploader used.
We are on a well so less water is also power savings.
Clothes take much less time to dry since they come out only damp instead of sopping.
Con: It will get musty if left wet.
Prop the door open to let it dry..that is the only drawback I have seen..and I should have looked for one that has a just spin cycle.

As for cars, keep it tuned, change the oil, tire pressure etc.
We put in K&N reusable air filters, they allow freer flow of air, and can be washed 2x a year every 20,000 miles and put back in, less landfill and adds up to 2 mpg on our Dakota and Versa.
I use a 'wax' coating with Teflon our Versa(needs new 'wax") gets 34 36.5 mpg when it is clean, 33 dirty.
Combine trips, and like UPS delivery does, plan the route to make mostly right turns(less time idling at left turns).

We have vinyl clad aluminum window frames, they suck the heat right out.
Besides the insulated curtains I made some panels from foil back styro insulation to put between the curtains and the blinds. These panels are especially helpful on the metal framed glass sliding doors when it is cold or hot. We can see temps from 10 to 98 in the usual course of the year.
I painted the roof with Henry's Kool Seal 287 (takes several coats for shingle roof), but we can run ac and actually cool off now. It could get to 104 and stay that way for a few days before. Now we ran a window unit last summer because central eats the power and cooled most of the house on that unit and saving 300$ a month in power bills.

It dropped to 40F last night..and we catch sunlight for heat gain..so we did not turn on the heat last night..we lighted a kero heater for about an hour this am to take the chill off. We will eventually be completely solar heated.
Its the cooling that is killer.

If you own your home or condo. Find your pipes and insulate the hot water lines and put 2 insulating jackets on the heater. I also bought Reflectix brand insulation and lined the closet where the water heater is plus 1"styro panels too. (Be sure look for any bare wires, the foil on Reflectix can be conductive to electricity.

When shopping for any appliance I look for power use first.
Then check the reviews for service or lack of needing to be serviced we live where its hard to get a repairman.
I've learned basic appliance repair in the last 4 yrs. I also try to check to make sure there are not consumables like reusable/washable filters instead of paper throw away. I even have a permanent filter for the coffee maker that I toss in the dw with the rest of the dishes. It has the thermal carafe so it doesn't sit there and cook the coffee and use 700 watts.

Only thing I did not get the lowest power use was the TV it uses the same amt of watts that the old tube tv did, but its larger for aging eyes.
It also does not generate heat like that other tv did.
We bought it because it has very good service ratings and longest lasting of several in the price range of what we could afford to spend after being w/o tv for almost a year when the other one quit working.

I use a toaster oven for smaller meals plus small veggies can be put in a covered pan and let them cook while sitting on top of the toaster oven while the rest is baking.

We don't buy disposable plates etc. We use regular dishes and dishwasher (even lower cost dw are HE. now ours was less than 400$).

I buy with an eye to recycle whether its packaging or being able to buy local produce and take my own bags and keep an ice chest in the car and load it all into it. We also have a garden.

If you have a basement and if its wet, first get it dry then insulate.
The last house had a crawl space and I put insulation on the walls and floor it made a huge difference in the house and helped away with mold too. We had to treat the mold then deprive it of moisture.

[raccoon]

111. Don't shower so much. Shower only when you have to. In cold weather, I don't shower every day.

It just dries out your skin.

I live in SC. Just think, if I lived in ME/ND/SD/MN/MT/Canada, how much I'd save by not showering so much.

If you don't ordinarily get dirty, just don't shower so much.


PS--I am being serious.