CNN Breaking: -- U.N. agency: State of emergency at nuclear power plant in Onagawa, Japan

[gateley]

where excessive radiation levels reported.

No link, just a Breaking e-mail rec'd @ 7:39am PST

[madokie]

1. f**k

Yeah lets build a bunch more of these bastards called nuclear power plants.

[denem]

22. THIS IS 700X RADIATION THAT THEY ARE BLAMING ON FUKUSHIMA FALLOUT

No trouble with their reactor at all
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x632395

[ReggieVeggie]

2. Japan is one of the most earthquake-prepared countries in the world

but, apparently, not for their nuclear facilities

[Submariner]

3. Next season's "World's Deadliest Catch" will be the Radioactive King Crab

I can visualize them now checking the full crab pots with geiger counters. It should be interesting since Japan is now pumping seawater though the reactors to keeps the rods submerged.

[Marblehead]

4. I know nothing

about reactors, but that seems to me like a last ditch effort that in the end will fail.

[PearliePoo2]

11. are they pumping that hot shit right back out to the ocean?

Say it ain't so...
we are so fucked!

[CanonRay]

13. I think it's going into the air as steam

not that that is any better. Kills us instead of fish.

[gateley]

39. And poisons crops, animals, everything. nt

[Submariner]

19. It is in a dire emergency mode of "once through cooling"

They are pumping cold seawater in and through the reactors. The radioactive discharges will be carried up the Aleutian Chain currents to the Bering Sea crab fisheries.

Some discharge is steam, and that will nail the downwind residents of Japan. But you can bet the seawater pumps are pumping hard and fast for max-cooling. The fisheries Pacific-wide will feel this radiation.

[PearliePoo2]

26. if that's the case...

and that's how the currents work, then it's not just the King Crab..it's everything.
Krill, clams, oysters, herring, salmon, seals, dolphins and Orca.
The entire FOOD chain.
:puke:
:scared:
:cry:

[B2G]

27. What makes you think that water is being released back into Pacific??

Link please.

[MadHound]

28. Because it is an emergency,

They need cool seawater, which means they can't recycle the water, it has to be fresh from the ocean.

Furthermore, they don't have the capacity to store million of gallons.

This has been an emergency procedure for many nuke plants close to the ocean or rivers.

For those plants that are inland, there are emergency water supplies that will come in through piping, go once through, and exit back out. From there, the hot(in both sense of the term), water is either discharge back into piping leading to the wastewater treatment plant, a nightmare in and of itself, or is discharged directly into a nearby stream or stormwater runoff pipes.

[B2G]

30. Cooling reactors with water is standard proceedure

Just because they're using seawater instead of fresh water...it should make no difference as to where the hot water ends up. If they were discharging it back into the environment, don't you think everyone would be screaming bloody hell??

[MadHound]

33. The thing is, they are probably not pumping it through the normal piping,

They simply could be piping it into the pool through hoses or temporary pipes, much as they did at the NRX plant in Canadian disaster. The normal drainage system is probably also overwhelmed, and either not functioning, or not functioning completely.

Furthermore, even if it is being drained in the normal fashion, the filtering system is probably overwhelmed, and is thus letting radioactive material back out into the environment, going downstream to the wastewater treatment plant, which has little or no means of removing the radioactive material.

Finally, since such a large volume of water is being pumped in, the normal systems for removing it are overwhelmed, and they are having to use other systems to help remove the water as they pump fresh water in.

[B2G]

34. Lots of 'probablys' up there

Hope you are wrong.

[gateley]

41. Me, too - but it's a good point about the emergency - you do what

you have to do.

[Submariner]

32. If they are cooling the rods inside the reactor containment vessel

then they have to be pumping cold water in, and the hot water discharge through the outfall. BBC/CNN have reported the seawater cooling scenario. I worked on the River Bend nuclear plant construction in the early 1980s. It is also a boiling water reactor (BWR), and that's how cooling works on a BWR. The hot discharge has to go somewhere, and they do not have closed-loop cooling towers.

[jberryhill]

35. How many nuclear weapons did we and the French set off in the Pacific?

[gateley]

40. Probably more than we're aware of. And the French not to long ago,

if I recall. I THINK we haven't done it in years, but who knows?

[Peace Patriot]

36. Thanks for pointing this out, Submariner! I had not thought of WHERE the sea water

that they are pumping into these plants to prevent or stop meltdowns is going to end up. I have almost no knowledge of how this pumping works (except that I know that their pumping sea water is bad news--it's a last resort anti-meltdown measure which means they've given up on controlling the plant and are trashing it). I got the impression that the sea water is filling something up (the containment housing in the one that still has containment housing or the reactor housing itself in the case of F-1) not that they are flushing sea water through the plants (and out to sea?). But I really don't know. They are presuming meltdown in both, I believe (because they can't get into the reactors to know for sure) and you would think that, to prevent a nuclear explosion, they would have to keep that water COLD--which would mean continual flushing. But even if this is not the case, where will that sea water go, ultimately?

In other words, the danger to life is not just downwind, it is also downstream. (And, of course, air and water interact as well.) And the danger is serious all across the Pacific Ocean whether they prevent meltdowns or not.

I've been worried about airborne radiation (which has apparently already affected some people near Fukushima--report of about 200 people sent to the hospital for "further testing" --and at least one radiation poisoning or death--added to this worrisome report that high Fukushima radiation has drifted 60 miles). But then there's sea water itself. Jeez. Fukushima was hit by the tsunami, too. That wave alone could have carried radiation out of sea. Now the sea water pumping.

I'm just shaking my head. I live in California so I know "how" nuclear plants get built in high earthquake zones. (Lethal combo of corruption and official stupidity.) Still, Japan of all places--one of the most earthquake-vulnerable places on earth, packed with people, and all these plants right on the Pacific Ocean and dependent on the ocean for stopping nuclear explosions. It's mind-boggling.

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. the terms "nuclear reactor" & "desperate attempt" do not go well with my breakfast.

[bullwinkle428]

6. "It was the most quickly constructed nuclear power plant in the world."

"The Onagawa-3 unit was the most modern reactor in all of Japan at the time of its construction. It was used as a prototype for the Higashidori Nuclear Power Plant."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onagawa_Nuclear_Power_Plant

[PearliePoo2]

7. All these back-up plans and back-up generators for power....

so they build their nuclear plants right where tsunamis can (and did) wipe it all out.
stupid...fucking stupid.

[Bosonic]

8. timezone confusion : is this before or after OP? (10:50am EDT)

Japan agency: Onagawa plant functioning properly

(Reuters) - Japan's nuclear safety agency said on Sunday there was no problem with the cooling process at Tohoku Electric Power Co's (9506.T) Onagawa nuclear power plant and that a rise in radiation levels there was due to radiation leakage at another plant in a neighbouring prefecture.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/13/japan-quake-onagawa-idUSTKG00708020110313

(OK, it's bit before)

[madokie]

12. sounds to me like someone is buying bullshit

might ought to take a smell test on that one

[Bosonic]

14. rude

I'm not there, so it's difficult to seperate goverment/corporate bullshit from newswire panic/sensationalism. Obviously you've got the gift, so what's your secret, o wise one?

[madokie]

15. Don't believe the nuclear power industry nor their overseers

and you'll be pretty safe

[Bosonic]

16. and if this turns out to be a false alarm?

[madokie]

17. We'll see won't we

[denem]

20. Been there, done that. PM announced a meltdown at No 3

only to retract later and say meltdown unlikely.

The answer is : They just don't know what is going on.

[godai]

23. But it does appear to be a false alarm. See #21

It appears there were elevated radiation levels coming from the Fukushima plant.

Can we hope that the problem becomes less and is resolved? Or do some have reasons for wanting things to get worse?

[gateley]

43. Actually my OP didn't say anything other than high radiation levels --

that's all the info I got -- so that could mean anything until more data was forthcoming.

I think we're just distrustful of the "official word", especially after being jacked around by BP. Maybe Japan's industry leaders aren't as duplicitous and will let the people know exactly what's going on.

[godai]

18. Don't shoot the messenger.

A link was posted with very little comment. Nothing wrong with that.

[madokie]

25. and nothing wrong with my pointing out that other evidence shows that to be false

I'm off to get some breakfast so see you later.

[etherealtruth]

9. I am overwhelmed with dread and horror for the Japanese people

My sense of helplessness is sickening

[denem]

10. Get this - the 700x radiation was fallout from Fukushima

They say the fallout from Fukushima raised Radiation to the level where by law they had to declare an emergency.
They have said the Fukushima radiation release was not serious.

No kidding! 1 + 1 = zero. TEPO liars.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x632395

[Delphinus]

24. I'm just

so confused about everything - not a scientist, so don't know who or what to believe.

[Tom Rinaldo]

31. When thet say they are doing everything possible to resolve the crisis, you can believe that...

...they know exactly how bad a worst case scenario would be and they will do all that is humanly possible now to avoid that. When they say anything else that tends to minimize the potential threat being faced, it should not be believed. Wide scale public paninc on top of everything else that Japan is facing now would be an additional public safety hazzard and there is little to no upside for authorities in revealing anything that might cause the public to panic.

They seem to be attempting to evacuate as many people as possible in a short period of time with the transportation and housing infra structure in the region already shattered. Beyond that they are balencing the pros and cons of issuing further warnings while the outlook remains unclear.

For the most part their best case scenarios are reasonably accurate once you discount their interpretation of the hard data about exposure levels etc. and the consequences implicit in them. The actual data so far might be accurate but this is a moviung picture with the potential to escalate violently rapidly. It is much more an issue of what is NOT being said.

[Delphinus]

37. Thanks for this.

I just heard CNN say there might have been a fuel rod that caused a minor meltdown, but no radiation has been detected - this would be a case where they are trying to minimize panic, yes?

[Tom Rinaldo]

38. The key point is you can't blindly trust them

Governments are known to practice the art of disinformation whey they claim it is in the national interest to do so. Maybe a specific statement is accurate, maybe it is not.

[gateley]

42. "When they say anything else that tends to minimize the potential

threat being faced, it should not be believed."

You're so right -- think BP.

[godai]

21. Here's a link to the original story.

VIENNA - Japanese authorities have told the U.N. nuclear watchdog that the lowest state of emergency has been reported by the operator at the Onagawa nuclear power plant, the Vienna-based agency said on Sunday.

"The alert was declared as a consequence of radioactivity readings exceeding allowed levels in the area surrounding the plant. Japanese authorities are investigating the source of radiation," the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said in a statement.




http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=211959

[suffragette]

29. Here's more info from the thread I started last night on this

which includes location, distance from the other problem plants and increase in levels from last night to today:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x630891

[ChiciB1]

44. For Me, I Can Only Take Other People's Word AND Education... But Given

all that we've seen in the past several DECADES I wonder if we'll ever get the REAL truth. Look how long it took with ASBESTOS. I personally know two people who died from exposure to that. And THAT was a very long time ago.

I'm still watching the BP fall out, which I KNOW isn't taken care of. I've actually seen fish with oil (corexit?) in their bellies, and it HAS been confirmed that it IS from the spill. Where I live we have a well known Marine Biology Institution that issued the report on it.

This disaster may not fully be known or seen for years to come. Food, fish, animals et all very likely will carry this over seas and land.

That's just my musings, but it seems very possible. Can we even grow our own veggies anymore? Makes me wonder and yes it does seem like I'm "chicken little" braying that the "sky is falling!"

:freak: :grr: and very, very :scared: