(DISASTER SCAM ALERT) Homeopathic Product Marketed For Radiation Poisoning Using Japan As A Hook

[HuckleB]

This is just despicable... there's no bones about it.

Homeopathy Plus, Radiation Poisoning and Japan (Yes, You Guessed Correctly)
http://www.merseysideskeptics.org.uk/2011/03/homeopathy-plus-and-japan-yes-you-guessed-correctly/

"Having written about and campaigned against homeopathy extensively in the past, I’ve seen a number of counter-arguments and issues raised by people who either disagree with the 10:23 Campaign (primarily homeopaths, admittedly). The one which crops up most regularly and seem to have, at least on the surface, the most sway is: if homeopathy IS just a placebo, is that so bad? Placebos, after all, can be shown to have an effect, and if judicially used could form a perfectly legitimate part of mainstream healthcare.

Persuasive as this sounds, the answer is actually pretty simple – leaving aside the implications for doctor-patient trust (handing out pills known to be ineffective and claiming they’re medicine definitely doesn’t gel with the important notion of informed consent), incorporating homeopathy into proven medicine lends the modality legitimacy, which can lead to things like this (screencapped from an email):

(GRAPHIC AT LINK)

Following the link from that alert takes you to the Homeopathy Plus website, with their advice on how to deal with the side effects of Chemotherapy – advice they believe to be equally applicable to radiation poisoning. Just to make it absolutely clear, as if I even needed to, there is a HUGE difference between the side-effects experienced after having a well-controlled, targeted and managed dose of chemotherapy to fight cancer, and being randomly exposed to an uncontrolled amount radiation following a damaged nuclear power plant. It goes without saying that this is irresponsible and dangerous advice, and by all means it should be ignored.

This advice from Homeopathy Plus is a clear demonstration of one of the hardest to grasp issues surrounding homeopathy – almost overwhelmingly, homeopaths aren’t conmen, aren’t charlatans and aren’t frauds. I absolutely believe that the majority – the vast majority – of homeopaths and proponents of homeopathy are utterly sincere and well-meaning. They genuinely think homeopathic preparations work, they absolutely believe the remedies are effective – this is why they turn up to Haiti to give away their pills, and it’s why they advise potentially-radiation-poisoned people to take homeopathy as a cure. It’s an act of kindness – albeit a tragically misguided one. Keeping this fact in mind is the hardest thing to do, especially at a time of overwhelming tragedy such as in the wake of events in Japan.

..."


------------------------------------




:-( :( :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :puke: :puke: :wtf: :crazy: :grr: :grr: :grr: :scared: :thumbsdown: :banghead: :banghead:

[Dogmudgeon]

1. FEAR the Atom -- and buy our snake oil, on sale this week only!

Here on DU, it's all about "Teh Nukezz", but outside on the Intertubes, there's also a lot of talk about HAARP, the Supermoon, and UFOs being seen.

--d!

[HuckleB]

3. Oh, goodness.

I knew I should have gone backpacking this weekend.

[fascisthunter]

4. really dumb

[Motown_Johnny]

11. and the coronal mass ejection that occurred on the same day

Don't forget that coincidence leading to a logical fallacy.

[Posteritatis]

25. There was a decent chunk of people here claiming the CME caused the quake

Post hoc ergo propter hoc and all that.

[etherealtruth]

2. I expect the scammers out en masse

[xchrom]

5. recommend

[peacetalksforall]

6. Could you clarify? Which is despicable - someone putting down homeopathy

or some firm coming up with a product to use against/after (whichever) radiation?

I don't know enough to say more, yet, but I will defend homeopathy. Maybe not that product, but I never call homeopathy in general despicable. Not at all.

This is a very touchy topic.

[SidDithers]

7. Despicable is someone selling snake oil (homeopathy) to a scared and gullible consumer...

Homeopathy is bullshit of the highest order.



Sid

[peacetalksforall]

9. Sorry you feel that way. I could not disagree more.

[HuckleB]

23. Exactly what is your basis for disagreeing?

[backscatter712]

17. You beat me to it!

In the same spirit, I present That Mitchell and Webb Look: Homeopathic A&E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0

[SidDithers]

20. No homeopathy thread is complete without it!...

:hi:

Sid

[peacetalksforall]

67. Stupid.

[HuckleB]

74. So you can't explain why you find this scam to be just fine and dandy?

:shrug:

[SpiralHawk]

21. "Thanks for your support. Pharmaceutical chemicals are the, um, ANSWER." - RepubliCorp

"All these natural remedies are, um, no good and stuff. Smirk. So shut up, be good little proles, assume the position and eat your chemical drugs. Smirk."

- RepubliCorp

[Posteritatis]

24. What a stupid post. (nt)

[HuckleB]

26. And the big pharma red herring as a defense for faith-based medicine appears.

Do you realize what this company is selling is nothing, and that they could potentially put people's lives at risk?

Hello?

[Desertrose]

30. Do you realize how many have died as a result of big pharma pushing

their inadequately tested pharmaceuticals? Probably no one knows since big money covers for big money.

If homeopathics don't always help- least they won't directly kill.


Hello?

[Posteritatis]

32. Except for the times when they do

"Oh, you have metastatic cancer? This water will fix it!"

Give me a break. Those people absolutely do kill.

[Desertrose]

36. Did the homeopathic remedy cause the cancer?

No.

Can you guarantee that a toxic concoction of chemicals will cure it?

No.

Homeopathy as a killer is bullshit.


Give me a break.

[Posteritatis]

40. In that situation it would certainly be responsible for the patient's death, yes. (nt)

[GoneOffShore]

50. NO - But it certainly can't and won't cure it.

Unless of course you are privy to some double blind, peer reviewed studies that show homeopathetic remedies curing cancer (or anything else, for that matter).

We'll wait.

[HuckleB]

101. are you sure.... ???

:evilgrin:

[cali]

58. do you have any idea how many lives modern medications have saved?

I may despise big pharma but largely not for what they produce. Now, how many lives has phony shit homeopathy saved? Try none.

[SpiralHawk]

31. Hey - Homeopathy works beautifully for me and my family

You are welcome to your BELIEFS. But you are not welcome to try and impose them on me. I reserve the right to not have people shoving their judgements down my throat, especially when they are counter to my direct experience.

[HuckleB]

34. In other words, you choose faith healing.

There is nothing in homeopathy. It is a scam, at this point in time, pure and simple.

There is no ethical defense for pushing it, and no ethical defense for recommending it to others. If you want to expose yourself to this scam, then fine. But then we should make all scams legal, too.

[SpiralHawk]

37. You can carry on your tirade all day and night

Won't change reality. I know homeopathy works for me and my family. I know hands-on subtle energy healing works, too. For the record, I have experienced the beauty, and power of The Medicine in the Inipi (Sweat Lodge) hundreds of times with true spiritual elders. Your inability to grok is your own karma.

Fume and fulminate and sputter until the cows come home. Won't change reality. Won't change the mind of anyone with direct experience.

Sayonara.

[HuckleB]

38. You believe it works.

It's the same as religious belief.

You might as well simply come up with a mantra as a treatment, for whatever ails you. Say it five times, and you'll be fine!

Or eat a red pepper. At least your body is getting some nutrition then.

The reality of your superstitious belief is VERY different.

The fact that you are defending the product in the OP is ludicrous, and that is being very kind.

[superduperfarleft]

41. "Won't change reality."

:rofl:

Says the person shilling for faith-based "medicine."

[HuckleB]

43. +1,000,000,000,000 ... 000 ... 000 !!!!!!!!!

[uppityperson]

54. If you were exposed to radiation, would you use a homeopathic cure?

[HuckleB]

100. And the silence is deafening...

[cali]

60. Sorry, hawk. Science is a bit more than a belief. What you are engaged in is magical thinking

Your direct experience does not outweigh the science. You are welcome to your magical thinking but don't push your so-called experience as evidence. It ain't.

[SidDithers]

75. Good luck with your faith-based medicine...

I hope you live long, illness-free lives, 'cause your homeopathic meds do nothing more than fill your tummy.

Shit and sugar. Enjoy your "meds".

Sid

[FLAprogressive]

88. But WHY do you shill for BIG PHARMA?! Homeopathy works WONDERS for my grandma/uncle/cousin/husband

Big Pharma has killed thousands/millions/billions!!!11one!!

How DARE you question my personal experiences.

[HuckleB]

91. Because homeopathy killed my brother-in-law's neighbor's sister-in-law's great aunt!

And I will never forget the day I heard the news.

:beer:

[FLAprogressive]

92. LOL! Why are you so CLOSED MINDED....I bet you haven't even *tried* the wonders of homeopathy

Are you going to tell me that you haven't even tried blood letting or colonics?!?! Those worked wonders for my dog!

:rofl:

[HuckleB]

96. My dog always got into the nightshade, so I put a little nightshade in her water.

And she lived a long and happy life. At least that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

Besides, my skull fused early. There's nothing I can do about it!

:toast:

[SidDithers]

98. Well said...

:thumbsup:

Sid

[HuckleB]

99. You, you ... you... you and your Excrementum Can...

:party: :hippie: :evilgrin: :bounce: :smoke: :beer: :beer: :beer: :hi: :headbang: :rofl: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :applause:

[WatsonT]

53. Ah yes, imply that everyone who disagrees with you is an agent for "The Enemy"

(doesn't really matter who, we always need a scapegoat).

The great thing about this tactic is not only does it thoroughly discredit the opposition, but it also proves your belief to be absolutely correct in a way that no amount of scientifically conducted studies could ever refute!

[FLAprogressive]

109. It's really the only thing they have besides anecdotal evidence

[Desertrose]

8. Well according to some on this board, all homepathy is despicable.

The usual ones are out to trash homeopathy because current science say it doesn't work and that's all that's in that box.

[peacetalksforall]

10. Sorry you feel that way. I could not disagree more.

[Desertrose]

12. I am not one who is in that particular limited box.....

I have seen homeopathy work for many people, including myself.

There is so much more & so many ways to heal the body (bodies) than science is able to or willing to see. Just because they can't measure it,doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Then again, it doesn't mean there aren't people out to scam & make a quick buck at the expense of others...but that is not limited to just those outside accepted scientific thinking, either.

[HuckleB]

27. Actually, some things don't exist, like actual medication in homeopathic products.

Please stop pushing this scam upon others. It is dangerous.

[Desertrose]

28. I'm not pushing anything here.

You are the one telling everyone that homeopathics are empty nothings....some of us don't see it that way. You don't agree fine...preach away but don't deny me the option to come to my own conclusions & observations.

As I said above, just because science CURRENTLY cannot measure or detect something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist or have an effect.


To quote Homer Simpson ..."you are not the boss of me".

[Posteritatis]

29. And what's science supposed to be measuring? Water's memory? (nt)

[HuckleB]

33. You can believe in whatever religion you want to believe in...

... even homeopathy. But if you're selling it as an actual remedy, there are ramifications for that. If you can't see the despicable, unethical push of the producers of the product noted in the OP, then please move along.

Your argument about "Currently" is something that has been shown to have no genuine basis in logic, over and over again. This is why homeopathy equates to faith healing. Please don't pretend otherwise.

[Desertrose]

39. Pfft...nice try equating the two.

Homeopathy is not a religion. It is an alternative choice to western medicine. You can call it whatever you like.

I know the difference.

And science "currently" knows everything and will never have to revise or change its current knowledge.

Talk about holding on to one's beliefs".





The problem here is not about "scams" and you wanting to protect people...the problem is your wanting everyone to agree with your beliefs.

[HuckleB]

42. It has no basis that is different from religion.

It is faith healing.

Unfortunately for you, this isn't about belief for me. This is about science, and, yes, about scams. Apparently you need to pretend otherwise. Well, I guess you pretend that homeopathy is something other than nothing, so I shouldn't be shocked by that.

[Desertrose]

47. Seeing & experienceing results is not the same as religion.

I'm pretending nothing.

Telling me what I believe & don't believe gets us nowhere.

It's clear we don't agree on this. Be rather boring if we didn't all think for ourselves and come to our own conclusions based on what we experience and learn.

[cali]

62. sure it is. people experience healing from religion every day. no difference at all. duh.

[HuckleB]

78. Your response continues to prove my point.

You have a belief, much like someone who believes that the Holy Spirit has entered him or her. It's no different. There is no valid evidence, and there is no excuse for these products to be sold legally.

[superduperfarleft]

44. How is homeopathy NOT religion?

There's zero physical evidence that it works, or even that the crap they say is in that little vial of water is even present at a molecular level.

You're saying it works because "you just know" (just like arguing with my loony fundie grandmother). Same as faith-healing, laying on hands, and trepanation. Sound familiar?

[Desertrose]

48. Having first hand experience...

of success with homeopathy over many years is not the same as knowing or believing.

I've personally experienced enough evidence for me to know that it does work. Just as all medicines...nothing works 100% of the time for anyone....allopathic or homeopathic.

Oh,and it's not a religion.

[HuckleB]

79. Why We Need Science: “I saw it with my own eyes” Is Not Enough

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=729

Also on the topic...
http://books.google.com/books?id=9vWrbr42VA0C&pg=PR11&lpg=PR11&dq=first-hand+experience+is+not+enough+science&source=bl&ots=TsBlPi5_3c&sig=DlPb7otioyq16Mmz_IeTPBcX-j8&hl=en&ei=skp9TemNA5D-rAGtofCLBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=first-hand%20experience%20is%20not%20enough%20science&f=false

[FLAprogressive]

94. A lot of people say they have "first hand experience" seeing "the results" of prayer.....

Why is their belief any different?

[superduperfarleft]

97. Notice I said "physical evidence."

You know, that thing that rational people expect to see before shelling out wads of cash to someone claiming they can cure cancer, AIDS, and hemorrhoids with a vial of water.

[GoneOffShore]

52. Not too up there on what 'science' and the 'scientific method are, are you?

If, as you say ".... science "currently" knows everything and will never have to revise or change its current knowledge" then science stops being science.

Science is constantly changing and exploring. Faith healing, vibrations, homeopathy, no.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvMb90hem8 from 1:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZemJD-9IIqk&feature=related

[HuckleB]

104. +1

[WatsonT]

15. Not despicable, just worthless

[Posteritatis]

22. Yeah, it's the vendors who are despicable. (nt)

[rbixby]

13. I don't see how ingesting poisons like cadmium and strontium

could possibly help anything though

[superduperfarleft]

45. Luckily, homeopathic "medicines" are so diluted that these toxic substances

aren't even present in the final product. While I will laugh my ass off at the fools who are willing to shell out cash to these scam artists, I don't wish death upon them.

[SidDithers]

76. My favourite homepathic remedy is excrementum can.

https://www.helios.co.uk/cgi-bin/store.cgi?action=link&sku=Excr-c

Yes, that really is a homeopathic solution of dog shit.

:rofl:

Sid

[HuckleB]

77. Now that is AWESOME!

http://www.remedia.at/homeopathy/Excrementum-canium/a2500.html


Synonyma -- Hundekot, Dog Excrement, Excr-can., Ex-can.
family --
group -- animal
starting material -- The faeces of a dog that has been fed with cow entrails ( mother; german Shepard, father a mixture between a Hungarian shepard dog and a Setter.)


This could lead to some great questions for homeopathy believers who are also vegetarian.

[rbixby]

105. So its hard to tell the difference

between that and like distilled water?

[HuckleB]

107. To be all too kind...

[WatsonT]

16. Homeopathy is garbage

which is fine enough when it's not being offered to treat real problems.

But when these con-men convince people to take in in place of real medicine when they actually need real medicine then I think it can be elevated to despicable.

Otherwise it's just a clever scam. A tax on the gullible.

[HuckleB]

18. Homeopathy is nothing but a human invention, and can be equated to sci-fi novels and faith healing.

It's time for all Democrats to support science, and work to help our fellow human beings. Part of that includes educating one another about scams like this.

[GoneOffShore]

63. Good luck with that education thing.

Far too many people think that 'wishing will make it so'.

[CanSocDem]

64. Oh I get it....

"Homeopathy is...a human invention,..."

And modern medicine was invented by.....God?,... Aliens? Those really smart guys who run corporations???

"It's time for all Democrats to support science, and work to help our fellow human beings."

You are hilarious.

.

[HuckleB]

72. Why am I not shocked that you don't understand.

You could sit down and come up with a "treatment" off the top of your head, a philosophy and the whole nine yards, and it would equate with homeopathy. No knowledge of science. No discovery. No testing. Nothing is needed.

Homeopathy is a fiction. Does that help?

Or maybe Ben can explain it to you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZiLsFaEzog

[Posteritatis]

19. "Coming up with a product" - you mean making up claims? (nt)

[cali]

55. there is ZERO evidence that homeopathy is effective. Zero.

This is a disgusting scam and is nothing short of pitiful that anyone on DU could fall for such shit.

[Scruffy1]

106. Homeopathy, chiropracty are both scams.

The sad part is that they mainly aim at the poor, who can't afford real health care. Have you ever seen a rich person go to a quackopractor?

[hobbit709]

102. Airhead 101

[HuckleB]

103. Please don't go to the depths of the anti-science fans.

Thank you.

[WatsonT]

14. Homeopathy causes autism, stay the hell away from this stuff

[Evoman]

57. !!!!!

:rofl:

[HuckleB]

35. I'm quite frankly stunned that there are people defending this.

WOW!

:wow:

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FLAprogressive]

95. See my post here, it's almost like a religion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x102509#102512

[etherealtruth]

46. I think I should embrace homeopathy

My municipal water supply (from the Detroit River and Lake Huron) is tainted with every imaginable substance ... unfortunately, in most cases I would need to further dilute the water as the concentrations of therapeutic drug molecules, heavy metals, hormones, etc... are much higher than in homeopathic preparations ... I could make a fortune ...

The only problem is that I am currently afflicted with some damned upper respiratory system virus .... you'd think something tainting my water supply would have healed me ...

[rucky]

49. I'm okay with this

as long as the useless sugar water has a large dose of potassium iodide in it, too.

[Lyric]

51. On second thought...

...that rant probably wasn't very nice. I'll just say that it's wrong to try and make money off of desperate, crisis-ridden people. It's predatory. It's no different than selling $100 bottles of water to people dying of thirst.

[GoneOffShore]

59. Nothing wrong with the rant.

Homeopathy and it's snake oil peddlers "make money off of desperate, crisis-ridden people," all the time.

[etherealtruth]

61. I regret that you edited your original reply

It wasn't posted in a "mean" spirit. Perhaps it could/ would have reached someone .... if it caused one person to truly reconsider their belief your post would have served a great purpose.

[peacetalksforall]

65. Unbelievable - this entire thread is based on OPINION of a Society of sceptics?

What the heck is official in this op and the group of people who 'joined in' to promote OPINION?

Enough said. What a crappy afternoon to have selected this thread to read.

Have fun sceptics.

[HuckleB]

66. Nice try.

You do understand that skeptics tend to care about actual evidence. Thus, the OP is based on the actual evidence that homeopathy is nothing but a scam, and that this company is trying to sell a worthless product to people. There is no justification for supporting such an act.

Do you not understand basic ethics and basic science?

[cali]

68. there is no scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of homeopathy. none.

[CanSocDem]

70. ...or you would have heard, is that it? (eorq)

[cali]

73. huh? it's easy enough to look up. And I have researched it.

You can too.

[FLAprogressive]

89. the only "scientific evidence" they need is that it worked on their uncle/brother/ex-wife's cousin

And how dare you shill for big pharma/knock something you haven't tried/judge them/be so closed minded/blah blah blah.

It's a religion.

[Codeine]

69. Homeopathy is bullshit.

You don't need a society to tell you that. Rub two brain cells together and you'll figure it out yourself.

[FLAprogressive]

93. They prefer to believe....makes them feel good because they're not funding "Big pharma"

[HuckleB]

71. All right. Homeopathic supporters -- DEFEND THIS CRAP!

Don't just unrec in an attempt to make it go away.

[etherealtruth]

80. I really want (need) to know if we are all working with the same definition of homeopathy

Are some conflating the term "homeopathy" with ALL alternative therapies?

This I can wrap my mind around.

I am also not willing to dismiss ALL alternative therapies as pure quackery.

To those that believe in homeopathy ... exactly what is it you believe in?

edit: id to if

[HuckleB]

81. The OP is in relation to the classic definition of homeopathy...

... not the conflated version that those who don't seem to know much about "alternative/complementary/integrative (why do they keep changing the name, anyway?) therapies" use.

Still, in the context of selling a product as a prophylactic against (or a treatment for) radiation, no untested remedy should be pushed on the public. Anyone who does so should be called out, IMO.

[etherealtruth]

82. I understood the OP's use of the term

I suppose, I am hoping that those professing belief in homeopathy have confused the term with "alternative/complementary/integrative therapies"

I can hope .... actually, it would make me feel much better if it were simply a confusion r/t to word usage.

[HuckleB]

84. It's always possible, but I don't think so.

I know that the definition has been clarified with a couple of the homeopathy defenders on this thread before.

Anyway, sales of oscillococcinum are through the roof, so it's not like the believers are alone. :(

[SidDithers]

83. Homeopathy is a very specific subset of alternative meds...

If defenders of homeopathy are conflating it with all alternative therapies, it just proves how little they know about what homeopathy actually is.

Sid

[etherealtruth]

85. I know what homeopathy is

I would truly feel better if folk were simply confused about the term they were using vs believing in "homeopathy" (on any level).

I can deal with ignorance related to word usage ... the other .... no, no I can't fathom that.

[SidDithers]

86. Agreed...

but it's been my experience from similar "debates" in the Health forum, that many posters defending homeopathy here are defending exactly what you and I know homeopathy to be.

:hi:

Sid

[HuckleB]

87. I'm with you.

Still, I have very good friends, who are generally intelligent people, but they let the whole notion that authority must be "questioned" (in reality denied), which allows them to fall for things like homeopathy because it's not "the norm." Luckily, my wife covers for me when I have to leave the room at parties, when the subject is mentioned.

Oh, my aching head.

Maybe I shouldn't do this: :banghead:

[GoneOffShore]

108. Have you seen "Storm"

by Tim Minchin?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQibRZSGREM

[HuckleB]

111. I had not seen that one! THANKS!

:toast:

[GoneOffShore]

112. It's my go-to rant for the woo-sters.

[HuckleB]

113. +1

[FLAprogressive]

90. No, the OP's calling homeopathy "homeopathy", aka mainstream quackery.

[LynneSin]

110. Best treatment for radiation exposure - Iodine Supplements

you can usually find Iodine at any store that sells supplements for less than $10 for a 1-2 month supply.

Thing is you don't need to take iodine everyday, as long as you use salt or eat products from the sea you get enough iodine. Just keep it handy should there be a nuclear/radiation disaster - then start taking the supplements.