60 Minutes story about huge turds on floor, doesn't notice Elephant in Room

[kpete]

Mon Mar 14, 2011 at 03:05 AM EDT
60 Minutes story about huge turds on floor, doesn't notice Elephant in Room
by Lefty Coaster

Tonight 60 Minutes ran a story on the $75 billion a year counterfeit drug racket that makes up 26% of the $289 billion U.S. market in pharmaceuticals.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/10/60minutes/main20040693.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

"So, you're talking about a very low risk, very high reward, potentially tons of money," Gupta remarked.

"Yeah. Absolutely," Kibble said. "When you think about that some of these pills can be manufactured you know, for 40 cents and sold for $18 or $20, I mean, just think of that profit potential. I mean, it's insane."

So the real problem is people are counterfeiting pills these pills. It would never occur to people who have been trained as reporters and producers that the real problem here is that these pills sell for inflated prices of $18 or $20 EACH.

Pharmaceutical Industry wiki

US profit growth was maintained even whilst other top industries saw little or no growth. Despite this, "..the pharmaceutical industry is — and has been for years — the most profitable of all businesses in the U.S. In the annual Fortune 500 survey, the pharmaceutical industry topped the list of the most profitable industries, with a return of 17% on revenue." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry <25>

the rest:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/14/956152/-60-Minutes-story-about-huge-turds-on-floor,-doesnt-notice-Elephant-in-Room-

[raccoon]

1. Off to Greatest with you! nt

[no_hypocrisy]

2. I don't get it.

There could be massive class-action strict products liability lawsuits filed and the practice of impure pharmaceuticals at least lessened.

Why is this so prevalent with impunity?

[Capitalocracy]

42. Maybe the existence of an alternative (black) market for these products

keeps us from actually taking effective action against the broken system that, if it weren't for this underground market, would leave the people who turn to that market without medication, in pain, unhealthy, and/or dying

[dotymed]

59. From what I have seen on the internet,

these drugs are expensive. The same prices you would pay if you had no insurance and a valid prescription.
I know people who become addicted to pain meds from their Dr. and are "cut off." These (few) can afford to buy these "meds" off of the internet. They have an "online Dr.(?)" who prescribes the narcotics without ever reviewing anything but the form you fill out before purchasing the very expensive drugs(ask rush). They either use U.S. Mail or (if you pay extra) UPS, FED-EX, etc..and overnight them to you.

[BonnieJW]

61. The solution

is to manufacture ALL pharmaceuticals in THIS country. We wouldn't have to import any of it and the QC would be easy.

[jtuck004]

48. Because our government believes in the free market, as long as there is an "insane" markup. eom

[tclambert]

57. A free market, not a competitive market.

Gotta let those monopolies and cartels make "insane" markups, and help them crush competition that might actually put downward pressure on prices and upward pressure on quality. Business people hate competition.

[jtuck004]

66. I know. I think we need to get around to redefining the word "free" one day. eom

[annm4peace]

3. I had been given counterfeit anti depression drugs from Walgreen's

at Two different Walgreen's my prescription was of counterfeit drugs.
I receive no help from my doctor, the Manager of Walgreen's, my insurance company, or the U of M. All said they didn't know why they could do, or that I must be mistaken.

I knew I wasn't mistaken because my body was reacting as if I wasn't taking the drug and I had really horrible side effects. Thankfully my Dr did give me some of her samples to get be through the rest of the month till I could get a new prescription from another pharmacy.

It was at that little mom and pop pharmacy that the pharmacist said that there was counterfeit drugs out there and that is probably what happened. She gave my Wyeth's national address but I never did send that drug to them. I should have.


So it is also the Pharmacies also.

[glinda]

4. Same thing happened to my husband for his anti-Depression meds. Now I know why.

It was not Walgreens but was a Pharmacy at a large grocery chain.

[BanzaiBonnie]

5. Where might one get these meds tested?

My mother's meds for depression are not working anymore. Something is going on and I'm trying to figure it out.

[AlbertCat]

7. Something is going on

People do develop tolerance for drugs all the time.... where they don't work like they used to.

But I'm playing Devil's advocate here.

The way to find out is indeed to get things tested.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

19. Was there a change in her med?

In the past three months has she been given a generic or a differant generic? If that is the case, that could be the problem. I have experienced this personally when I was moved to the first generic for Celexa -- I had to up my dose to get the same effect as the label. A few months ago I got another Celexa generic and I have been having serious problems ever since. I took a few days of my Mom's label Celexa and felt better than I had in years on the generics.

The generics for Welbutrin and Zoloft are notorious for problems.

[glinda]

21. Where can these be tested? Husband had problems with Wellbutrin. He

still takes the generic form but they cost the same. It actually seemed like there would be an occasional "dummy" pill occasionally in between regular ones.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

26. Check out this page --

and see if amy of these reports sound familiar:

http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2007/05/21/report-generic/

I have no idea where/how you can test a generic you are getting. :( You can ask your pharmacist just who manufactures the pils your husband gets and try to find another pharmacy who carries another generic. Or have your doctor represcribe with "no subtitutions" on the script and use the brand.

[dflprincess]

50. But even if the doctor writes "no subsitutions" the insurance companies

won't cover the brand name if there is a generic (or the copay will be higher). Not everyone can afford that.

A while ago I read that most generics are produced in India and China so, even if they aren't technically counterfiet, who knows what kind of quality control there was in the factory the generic was produced.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

64. True about the affordability of the brand. ;(

That is my situation -- I do the best on the brand but can't afford it. I am looking into Medco (Canadian onlien pharmacy) for a differant generic. I hate being a slave to Pharma and their Congressinally protected high prices. :puke

[dflprincess]

68. Medco is a mail order pharmacy but they aren't Canadian

Their headquarters are in New Jersey. (It's the outfit my employer uses for prescriptions and trust me when I tell you, they wouldn't use a Canadian company.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medco_Health_Solutions

Maybe there is a Canadian pharmacy with a similar name?

[glinda]

51. Thanks. Bookmarked this for husband to read.

[dwilso40641]

6. K&R n/t

[DeSwiss]

8. So what this boils down to.....

...is one group of criminals complaining to 60 Minutes that another group of criminals is ripping them off?


- Big Pharma, karma is a bitch ain't it?

K&R

[annabanana]

12. You've pretty much nailed it!. . . . n/t

[femrap]

24. Now that is

f*cking funny. Thank you for the great analysis.

:yourock:

[Paka]

45. Pretty spot on, DeSwiss.

:nopity:

[Amonester]

52. Bingo!

The Circus (60 Minutes) presents: The Legal Hostage Takers vs. the illegal hostage takers.

Guess who the losers are? US!

[felix_numinous]

9. Hey did you know an easy way to save money on expensive prescriptions?

Get a prescription from your doctor that includes an additional ingredient (harmless, inactive) so that the pharmacist has to mix the drug himself, and you can save hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars. Pass it on. :)

[MrsBrady]

43. can you give me an example

because our plan won't cover compounded drugs.

[felix_numinous]

63. I have to ask my girlfriend today

she told me about someone whose original prescription cost 1800 and ended up costing little over 100. I see her today :) Wow so your insurance actually doesn't cover 'compounded' drugs--the bastards, I think they know about this loophole.

[felix_numinous]

69. I am still checking on this

if you or anyone is still interested. My understanding so far is that requesting compounded drug prescriptions from your doctor can be a way to beat the high price of the pharmaceutical product, and that this is done to bypass the insurance company. Your out of pocket price could beat the price you paid with insurance.

[jdadd]

10. I remember all the scare stories

of the possibility of Canadian drugs being substandard or counterfeit they were spreading,to block their importation. Hmmmmm!!

[Hannah Bell]

11. kr

[Taverner]

13. The counterfit drug market seemed nonexistant ten years ago

It only started either getting noticed or began since US Seniors went to other countries for their drugs...

I honestly wonder WHO is making the counterfeit drugs

Could it be, the very drug companies who make the real ones?

[Yavin4]

14. Counterfeit Pills Don't Have A Marketing Budget

of which a huge portion goes to our corporate media.

[MrCoffee]

15. Nor do they have a R&D budget

[Recursion]

16. The second pill cost 40 cents to make. The first one cost 400 million (nt)

[IdaBriggs]

34. Turns out that is not true.

http://www.slate.com/id/2287227

(snip): "When Light and Warburton correct for all these flaws—well, all the ones that can be quantified—they end up with an average cost of bringing a drug to market that's $59 million and a median cost that's $43 million. In 2011 dollars, that's a $75 million average and a $55 million median.

So the drug companies' $1.32 billion estimate was off, according to Light and Warburton, by only $1.265 billion.* Let's call it a rounding error."

[gratuitous]

17. Indeed

Watch the evening news some time (anytime, really). Count the number of ads for items you can't go out and buy directly, like oil and natural gas industry puffery, or prescription-only pharmaceuticals. Then, when you ask why the price at the pump has gone up another quarter per gallon, or why a 40 cent pill costs $20, you're treated to a rousing chorus of "research" and "production costs." All buttressed by objective reporting from the news shows that directly profit from these ads.

[harmonicon]

39. +1 (nt)

[hedgehog]

18. It should be noted that the counterfeit pills in question were

being made in an open air courtyard with non-sterile water and improper ingredients. (Chalk is a lot cheaper than the active chemical in the original pill.)

That said, the only reason to counterfeit something is if you can make a cheap facsimile that people will pay big bucks for. Any time the pharmaceutical companies rack up their profit margin, they are setting the stage for counterfeiters. The real measure of costs should include a comparison of prices for the patent medicine and the generic form.

[glinda]

22. Some cost exactly the same.

[russspeakeasy]

20. The kid on the corner goes to jail. These assholes make billions.

I'm not for drug dealers. It's just that the rules are skewed
to the already rich.

[Festivito]

23. I thought you'd mean the Curveball story. The Bush admin desire for Iraq - not mentioned.

Just that turd Curveball's story. Certainly to make no mention of the rediculously easy to refute paper, and certainly none of the new revelations of Bush admin desires being noted even before 9.11.

[Uncle Joe]

25. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[kpete]

28. Uncle Joe

too much, too fast,
peace, kpete

[Uncle Joe]

67. Peace to you as well, kpete.

:pals:

[Corruption Winz]

27. K/R. The pharmaceutical industry is my least favorite portion of this country. Hate it. n/t.

[loudsue]

38. That's pretty close to my least favorite...after the health insurance companies.

Monsanto (in particular, and the other chemical compnies, in general) is tied for 2nd with the pharmaceuticals. Or is it maybe the banking industry? Or it might be the oil industry.

[Corruption Winz]

44. Or the educational system. Infinite list. n/t

[madrchsod]

29. the us consumer picks up all the costs of..

r&d,production hardware,and advertising. we are also picking up the difference that other countries /consumers pay.

[liberation]

30. "we are also picking up the difference that other countries /consumers pay."

Newsflash, not all drugs are developed and manufactured in the US by American corporations.

[madrchsod]

33. i know....

i worked for a printer that ran 4 pharmaceutical magazines that were mailed around the world. there were some really interesting articles about r&d and production costs

[liberation]

54. Is this post supposed to be sarcastic

or you expected it to be an actual serious reference?

[IdaBriggs]

35. Ah, but here is an interesting article about where the money is *really* going....

http://www.slate.com/id/2287227

(snip): "When Light and Warburton correct for all these flaws—well, all the ones that can be quantified—they end up with an average cost of bringing a drug to market that's $59 million and a median cost that's $43 million. In 2011 dollars, that's a $75 million average and a $55 million median.

So the drug companies' $1.32 billion estimate was off, according to Light and Warburton, by only $1.265 billion.* Let's call it a rounding error."

[harmonicon]

37. oh, yeah, that's rich.

Sure. Companies just sell prescriptions in other countries at a loss. Of course they do. No profit there at all. You may also be interested in this bridge I have for sale. It's a real bargain.

[Richard D]

31. The problem isn't that the counterfeits sell for 18 or 20 each

The problem is that the "real" medications are probably selling for 50 or 60 each and still cost .40 to make.

[Desertrose]

40. SO true!!!!!

[WillyT]

32. HUGE K & R !!!

:kick:

[harmonicon]

36. The companies seem to be doing ok with 60 million britons...

paying 7 pounds 20 for medications (unless you're one of the many who qualify to get them for free). My Dr. is always apologetic about writing me prescriptions that I have to pay for, but I've told her that it basically seems like free when a month's prescription costs as much as lunch.

[xloadiex]

41. This is why people look for cheaper alternatives

preemie preventive now $1,500

snip

-- The price of preventing preterm labor is about to go through the roof.
A drug for high-risk pregnant women has cost about $10 to $20 per injection. Next week, the price shoots up to $1,500 a dose, meaning the total cost during a pregnancy could be as much as $30,000.

That's because the drug, a form of progesterone given as a weekly shot, has been made cheaply for years, mixed in special pharmacies that custom-compound treatments that are not federally approved. But recently, KV Pharmaceutical of suburban St.Louis won government approval to exclusively sell the drug, known as Makena (Mah-KEE'-Nah). The March of Dimes and many obstetricians supported that because it means quality will be more consistent and it will be easier to get.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_17577745?nclick_check=110

[uberblonde]

46. Remember how Obama said...

He was going to lift the ban on buying Canadian drugs?

Seems like decades ago.

[defendandprotect]

49. Did he really? Wow!

[defendandprotect]

47. Why is anyone watching 60 Mins? or Gupta -- ??? !!!

[obxhead]

53. All of this propped up by Obama in back room deals.

Not only propped up, but legislated in such a way that it will be all but impossible to change.

[DesertDiamond]

55. I've read that hit men get paid well. So naturally Big Pharma would be paid well to...

kill more people more efficiently -- and with few people even realizing a murder has been committed.

[Major Hogwash]

56. Counterfeit pills,counterfeit politicians, counterfeit wars!

If we weren't bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq, did you know that we could afford to give Japan a $5 billion dollar check for aid in this, their time of need?
Every single week for the next 10 years!!!

Because that's what those 2 wars cost us!
Something to think about.

So far we've spent $2,500,000,000,000 on those wars.
That's $2.5 trillion dollars.
Instead of spent on aid, it's been spent on destroying 2 separate countries.

But, the neocons don't care about helping a country that is an ally of the United States like Japan.
They just want to start wars and kill people.
That's some legacy you've got there, Mr. Bush!!

[dotymed]

58. Is there any other country in the world

that forbids bargaining with pharmaceutical companies over prices? Hell yes, these fake medicines are headed for America. The greedy politicians have allowed OUR pharmaceutical prices to be outrageous so they can all profit from our misery again. Now, their greed may kill us.
I take about 18 different medicines a day, for heart failure (the SS says I can earn at least $1000 a month, so I am not disabled. really.) I used to earn $32 an hour plus great benefits.
There have been times that I have felt much worse than usual while taking my "maintenance meds." Just "crawling the walls." It did occur to me that my local pharmacy had given me out-of-date medicines. Now, I see the possibility that these "meds" were just trash. "Their" greed has ensured that America is the destination of these fake drugs. The profits are insane.
Recently. while in the hospital, I was charged from $40 to $300 a pill for my medications.
Universal health care, bargaining for better prices...all of these done by all of the other "civilized nations", yet the citizens of the "greatest nation on earth" are treated as walking ATM's which are almost empty (except the top 2%).
Who has the stupidity to really believe that "our politicians" actually work for our interests? Unless you define "our" as wealthy, then there is no way anyone could really think this is true.

[Vinca]

60. In most countries, that would be called an obscene profit.

In this country,it's business as usual. If people die because they can't afford a drug, it doesn't merit a second of Charlie Sheen coverage.

[valerief]

62. Brilliant subject line. nt

[Hubert Flottz]

65. Turds on the floor will bring your Larry Craig class freepers out

of the woodwork.

"Where Their's Turds in the area, There's GOPer Family Values"