Friends – we are here today because we know – we are all Bradley Manning.

[kpete]

The article below is from a speech given by Kevin Zeese in support of Bradley Manning at Bus Boys and Poets in Washington, DC on March 13, 2011.

..............

Friends – we are here today because we know – we are all Bradley Manning. That a crime against one of us, is a crime against all of us. We need to stand together, to Stand with Brad, because this is much bigger than Bradley Manning.

We are living through a time of revolutionary change. We see it around the world and we see it around the nation. The corporate-government-media does not report the resistance occurring throughout the nation because if Americans knew that their fellow Americans were standing up against corporate-government, real change, shifting power to the people, would be more likely.

And, the corporate media is threatened by what Bradley Manning is accused of. They are losing hold of their monopoly on information as WikiLeaks shows the way to the democratization of the media. We are living through the birth of a new media that will shift the power of information control from the few to the many. Information is a commodity that the corporate-government has sought to control because they know information is power. But in this new media age we can all be reporters, writers, commentators. Through email, blogs, websites and social media each of us can share information. We all can become part of the new media.

.........

The treatment of Bradley Manning shows their fear. They know they have been exposed, that the truth of their crimes is becoming known to all. Even the corporate-government-media cannot hold the truth back in a time when the media is being democratized.

.........................

please, read the rest:
http://warisacrime.org/content/manning-must-be-tortured-make-example-him-and-intimidate-his-supporters

[ananda]

1. We are one! K and R!

nt

[seabeyond]

2. i dont see him as a hero, and i am not manning. these words are saying nothing about

what is happening to him today, but speaking about the action he did. many people dont admire/respect/condone what he did.

[pintobean]

4. +1 - and I'm me and you're you

I am not Manning. I served honorably.

[seabeyond]

6. I served honorably.

kinda how i see it. and thank you

[Cid_B]

26. I'm not Manning...

I am serving honorably without violation of my oath or clearance....

Hope he sits right where he is in his little box for the next 80 years....

[kpete]

5. the point is not whether you like or dislike manning

agree or disagree,
the point is this:

........... Torture will be used on political dissidents in this country,
that is clear now, and PFC Manning is the first, but there will be "others.

We have ALL become the "others"...

[seabeyond]

7. the point is... it is not a matter of liking or disliking. he is a criminal. not a political

dissident.

[kpete]

8. ahhhhhhhhhhh

a criminal?
WHEN & WHERE WAS THE TRIAL THEN ????

please, this is NOT a Kafka movie
or is it?


peace, kpete

[seabeyond]

10. again... my words are not about what has happened since and the handling of it, but doesnt make him

less criminal in his action.

that is what i am speaking to. to suggest we dont "know" what he has done is dishonest.

[EFerrari]

17. We could save so much money in needless trials if everyone thought as you do. n/t

[seabeyond]

19. we could also ignore the words i specifically type, too, to argue what i am not discussing.

i have specifically stated i am not talking about what has happened since imprisoned. but here you are, arguing about that.

[EFerrari]

30. Easier to ignore once you edit them out.

lol

[seabeyond]

32. so, when a person makes a statement, you edit out words you dont like

so you can have an argument you want? wow.

[EFerrari]

34. No, I was referring to your edit of "he must be punished". n/t

[seabeyond]

37. now you are making up stuff. i dont know wtf you are talking about. but i do agree

that if a person choses to commit a criminal act, they should be punished. consistently, i expect the same from wallstreeters and bushco....

[EFerrari]

40. If you believe criminal acts must be prosecuted

then Bradley Manning's case should be 'way down the priority list after the hundreds of cases of government corruption and criminality his leaks have revealed.

[seabeyond]

41. again... irrelevant and nothing to do with what i posted. nt

[EFerrari]

46. Wrong. It's the logical extention of what you posted.

If crime must be punished, then the list of much more serious crimes than taking digital files off a computer -- a list which includes murder, illegal deployment of US troops in foreign nations, theft, obstruction of justice at the highest levels, bribery, coercion, illegal surveillance -- that list of much more serious crimes must be prosecuted immediately.

[seabeyond]

47. that is ridiculous and irresponsible. you can make up any scenario you want to argue

doesnt mean i am a particpant.

[EFerrari]

50. No, it's not ridiculous. Manning's leaks exposed hundreds

of the most serious crimes possible.

Did you really mean, only some crimes should require punishment?

[seabeyond]

51. so, you admit he is a criminal. that is all. nt

[EFerrari]

60. Nope. You said crime must be punished. n/t

[seabeyond]

62. nope? you declared he did a criminal act. i will agree that criminl acts need to be prosecuted.

i dont know where your argument is. it all is a bet silly because i wont agree, i am manning.

[EFerrari]

71. No, that is a mischaracterization of my posts, as anyone reading can see plainly.

I said Manning's case is a lower priority than the gross crimes the leaks exposed.

I also said that taking digital files off of a computer is a much less serious crime than the crimes shown in those files.

I did not call Brad Manning a criminal. That was you.

[seabeyond]

73. taking digital files off of a computer is a much less serious crime

whether it is preceived to be less serious or not.... a crime it is

[daleanime]

14. Convicted by ??????

:banghead:

[seabeyond]

16. what does that have to do with what he did? nt

[sarge43]

33. And what trial convicted him of any charge?

If he's dead to rights, why wasn't he been court-martialed?

[seabeyond]

35. repeating... i am not talking about what has happened since his arrest. this

article is validating his criminal act and saying we are all him. i am not.

[sarge43]

43. If you don't identify with him, fine.

However, a charge, even a fact, is not, repeat, not a conviction.

You didn't answer the question. If the Army has absolute concrete evidence of his guilt, why hasn't he been court-martialed? Please don't tell me that courts take time. They don't, not when the perp is dead to rights. Why the foot dragging?

[seabeyond]

45. you are demanding i argue something i am not arguing. i never said a charge = conviction

i never argued he should not get a trial. so i certainly didnt argue any of the other stuff you suggest.

this article is validating what he did and saying we are all that. i am saying, no, i am not that.

[sarge43]

67. You called him a criminal

How can he be a criminal, if he hasn't been convicted of a crime? If he's accused of a crime, why hasn't he been brought to trial?

Tap dance all you want, but your choice of words is most telling.

[seabeyond]

69. he has admitted to the criminal act. we have seen the results of his criminal act

whether he has a trial or not, does not take away from the action that we know.

i dont validate that act.

i dont justify what he did. what we know he did.

yes, he needs to have a trial. so we agree with that. there is no tap dancing going on. i dont agree with you, so you are making up an argument that is not there.

[Travelman]

78. Because his Article 32 has not come up yet, that's why.

It is hardly unusual for it to take a year or more for an Article 32 hearing (basically, an arraignment, for those who aren't familiar with the procedure) to be prepared, especially on a large and/or complex case such as this one. His Article 32 is expected in May or June. That would make it about a year from the time of arrest until his Article 32.

Once the Article 32 hearing goes on, and he will quite doubtless be bound over for court-martial, his trial (and pretty much certain conviction) will most likely come rather quickly.

[pintobean]

29. The Madison Wisconsin brig is overflowing with political dissidents

[leftynyc]

65. Agree

He violated his oath and is paying the consequences. Hope he feels it is worth it.

[cali]

3. nope. we're not. I stand firmly against the mistreatment of Manning

but that's it.

[Sky Masterson]

9. I'm not. I didn't steal classified documents and give them to

a foreign entity. If it is proven that he has been given the Abu Ghraib treatment then I want those who committed the crime to pay for it.What he did no matter how much you may agree with it was an act of treason and he should be punished.

[EFerrari]

11. Punitive pre-trial detention is illegal in this country, period. n/t

[seabeyond]

12. o.k. agreed. nt

[Sky Masterson]

15. Can you say for a first hand fact that he is being pre-punished?

(Besides incarceration)From what I read his father doesn't believe so. Do you know his mental state? Is he suicidal?
I don't know and you don't know.

[EFerrari]

20. He himself, his lawyer, his visitor all attest to the same story.

The PENTAGON has verified it in their attempts to justify it. PJ Crowley just quit over it. And no, he is not suicidal. Doctor report after doctor report shows that.

His father has protested his treatment. Here is the video:

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/03/10/wikileaks-mannings-d.html

[Sky Masterson]

23. Watching it now

.

[kpete]

13. we are the "others" - dont you get it - this could be US

His cell is six feet wide and twelve feet in length.

It has a bed, a drinking fountain, and a toilet.

At 5:00 a.m. he is woken up. He will not be allowed to sleep again until 8:00 p.m. If he attempts to sleep at any time from 5 AM to 8 PM he will be made to sit up or stand by the guards.

He will not be allowed to exercise in his cell, not even pushups – for his own protection, too dangerous, say his jailers. If he tries guards stop him.

He has no clothes as they were taken away the night before. He is forced to sleep naked with a scratchy smock over him that itches throughout the night. He tried not to use the smock because it was so uncomfortable but was forced to do so.

A voice asks through the door: Are you alright? I need a verbal response. "Yes, I'm alright." Five minutes later: Are you alright? I need a verbal response. "Yes, I'm alright." Every five minutes, every day for 7 months he is asked: Are you alright? I need a verbal response.

A voice through the door orders: Get out of your bed for the morning Duty Brig Supervisor inspection.

Still no clothes.

He gets out of the bed, shivering from being naked all night in a cold cell.

He walks toward the front of the cell with his hands in front covering his genitals.

A guard orders: Stand at parade rest.

He puts his hands behind his back, with legs spaced shoulder width apart. He stands at ‘parade rest’ waiting and waiting until the Brig Supervisor arrives. Everyone is called to attention.

Brig supervisor and the other guards walk past the cell. They stop, look as he stands naked. Stare at him. Look at the room. Stare at him some more. Then they move on to the next cell. He stands waiting for the inspection of all the cells to end. When completed a guard orders – go sit on your bed. Sitting naked, waiting, waiting, waiting ten minutes later, finally, clothes arrive and he can dress. The shiver from the cold night stays with him.

This is how Bradley Manning’s day begins. The nudity has been required for more than a week with no end in sight, but he has been in solitary in Quantico for 7 months, in total for 10 months.

..............

http://warisacrime.org/content/manning-must-be-tortured-make-example-him-and-intimidate-his-supporters

[seabeyond]

18. what i read was validating his criminal act.... really not a lot fo talk about the prison he sits

in.

[Sky Masterson]

21. Do we know this all to be a fact?

That is an excerpt from a speech.
I'm not trying to be an ass about this I'm just not 100% convinced that it is all true.

[kpete]

22. i give up

then...

[Sky Masterson]

24. I just watched the PBS clip

Can I submit the idea that he is a soldier and standing in his underwear at attention is stuff they do in basic training.
I hope you are wrong and I am right.
I don't condone or defend torture. If he is being humiliated and tortured then I want the guilty to pay.

[EFerrari]

44. Article 13, iirc, says that punitive pre-trial detention

vitiates the case and requires all charges be dropped.

That's how bad this is.

[Sky Masterson]

61. If it is proven then they will be.

If not then they wont be.
I can't imagine why any detained prisoner or his loved ones would try to work that angle to help free their loved one whether it was true or not. Like I said repeatedly..I or any of us only know what we are told because we aren't there.

[EFerrari]

68. Our own experience says otherwise.

John Walker Lindh was tortured in custody, in fact, they played a video clip of him during that period over and over on American tv. His case should have been thrown out.

Padilla's mind was completely destroyed by torture. His case should also have been thrown out.

Similarly, our experience should tell us that if the lawyer and the Pentagon agree on the basics of the story, it's true. And they do.

[cali]

39. Actually, he now has clothes to sleep in, so that's a good thing.

I don't like emotional propaganda crap and that's what this unverified piece is. War is a crime is not a good site.

[kpete]

48. Amnesty International begs to differ:

The conditions inflicted on Bradley Manning . . . amount to inhumane treatment by the US authorities and appear to breach the USA’s human rights obligations.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/10/amnesty/index.html

[cali]

53. begs to differ in what way? I didn't say the conditions that are being visited on

Manning aren't inhumane. I believe they are, but do YOU give a flying fuck that these conditions are visited on prisoners other than Manning every single day- and far worse. In U.S. prisons. My comment was to CORRECT your claim that he's still forced to sleep nude and to criticize the for shit article from antiwar that you posted. your response is, well, non-responsive. no surprise.

[Historic NY]

77. Actually this is his lawyer website....

18 December 2010
A Typical Day for PFC Bradley Manning

PFC Manning is currently being held in maximum custody. Since arriving at the Quantico Confinement Facility in July of 2010, he has been held under Prevention of Injury (POI) watch.

His cell is approximately six feet wide and twelve feet in length.

The cell has a bed, a drinking fountain, and a toilet.

The guards at the confinement facility are professional. At no time have they tried to bully, harass, or embarrass PFC Manning. Given the nature of their job, however, they do not engage in conversation with PFC Manning.

At 5:00 a.m. he is woken up (on weekends, he is allowed to sleep until 7:00 a.m.). Under the rules for the confinement facility, he is not allowed to sleep at anytime between 5:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. If he attempts to sleep during those hours, he will be made to sit up or stand by the guards.

He is allowed to watch television during the day. The television stations are limited to the basic local stations. His access to the television ranges from 1 to 3 hours on weekdays to 3 to 6 hours on weekends.

He cannot see other inmates from his cell. He can occasionally hear other inmates talk. Due to being a pretrial confinement facility, inmates rarely stay at the facility for any length of time. Currently, there are no other inmates near his cell.

From 7:00 p.m. to 9:20 p.m., he is given correspondence time. He is given access to a pen and paper. He is allowed to write letters to family, friends, and his attorneys.

Each night, during his correspondence time, he is allowed to take a 15 to 20 minute shower.

On weekends and holidays, he is allowed to have approved visitors see him from 12:00 to 3:00 p.m.

He is allowed to receive letters from those on his approved list and from his legal counsel. If he receives a letter from someone not on his approved list, he must sign a rejection form. The letter is then either returned to the sender or destroyed.

He is allowed to have any combination of up to 15 books or magazines. He must request the book or magazine by name. Once the book or magazine has been reviewed by the literary board at the confinement facility, and approved, he is allowed to have someone on his approved list send it to him. The person sending the book or magazine to him must do so through a publisher or an approved distributor such as Amazon. They are not allowed to mail the book or magazine directly to PFC Manning.


Due to being held on Prevention of Injury (POI) watch:

PFC Manning is held in his cell for approximately 23 hours a day.

The guards are required to check on PFC Manning every five minutes by asking him if he is okay. PFC Manning is required to respond in some affirmative manner. At night, if the guards cannot see PFC Manning clearly, because he has a blanket over his head or is curled up towards the wall, they will wake him in order to ensure he is okay.

He receives each of his meals in his cell.

He is not allowed to have a pillow or sheets. However, he is given access to two blankets and has recently been given a new mattress that has a built-in pillow.

He is not allowed to have any personal items in his cell.

He is only allowed to have one book or one magazine at any given time to read in his cell. The book or magazine is taken away from him at the end of the day before he goes to sleep.

He is prevented from exercising in his cell. If he attempts to do push-ups, sit-ups, or any other form of exercise he will be forced to stop.

He does receive one hour of “exercise” outside of his cell daily. He is taken to an empty room and only allowed to walk. PFC Manning normally just walks figure eights in the room for the entire hour. If he indicates that he no long feels like walking, he is immediately returned to his cell.

When PFC Manning goes to sleep, he is required to strip down to his boxer shorts and surrender his clothing to the guards. His clothing is returned to him the next morning.
Posted by Army Court-Martial Defense Specialist at 1:40 PM Email This BlogThis! Share to Twitter Share to Facebook Share to Google Buzz

[Travelman]

76. Hear hear!

Manning is no hero. Sorry, folks, but he isn't. He's a traitor. He gets no sympathy from me.

And no, he's not being mistreated. This whole ludicrous line of claims about how awful it is that he isn't left his jumpsuit with which to hang himself is utterly asinine. That's what happens when you're on suicide watch. Don't want that to happen? Don't threaten to kill yourself. Well, don't threaten to kill yourself after you have been arrested for stealing classified data and handing it over to a foreign entity and then bragging about it all on the internet. Better yet, just don't go around stealing classified data in the first place, and you probably won't have this problem.

[Raksha]

25. They are making a very public example out of Bradley Manning.

Not only are they torturing him, but they are making sure all of America knows about it. Everyone knows who wants to know anyway. "See, this can happen to you too if you violate our secrets and air our dirty laundry." Now they are waiting to see if we'll accept it as the new normal. That's precisely what I find so abominable, almost more than the torture itself.

Because information absolutely *IS* power, and they know it and we know it. And they know that we know it. I imagine the corporatocracy is pretty damn terrified right now.

[EFerrari]

27. Precisely. And the moment a regime resorts to violent suppression

they have lost their legitimacy.

That is also happening right now.

[seabeyond]

31. a person can say no to a criminal act. and say no to loss of rights.

it is not tough to do.

[EFerrari]

36. You are not a judge and jury except perhaps in your own imagination. n/t

[seabeyond]

38. nor am i saying i am. nor disagreeing with you that he should have a trial

this is a tough concept for you, huh?

[EFerrari]

70. Not at all. I think the Pentagon, from Gates on down,

should face prosecution for murdering civilians, covering it up and then lying about the cover up.

Same with the State Department, from Hillary Clinton on down, for attempting to force Spain to stop investigating the murder of journalists at the Palestine Hotel -- another attempted cover up of Pentagon murders.

Same with the State Department's attempt to stop the Spanish torture investigation.

And on down the list.

[kpete]

28. thank you Raksha

"Not only are they torturing him, but they are making sure all of America knows about it"

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. But..but..Manning is a really skeery guy. He threatens us with..information.

And, just imagine the torment the bosses go through when their war crimes and screw ups are exposed to the people they work for.

[EFerrari]

49. Dan Ellsberg was villified, too, wasn't he?

I barely remember that part.

/oops

[myrna minx]

58. It's good to know that torture is now ok if we don't like the person and have pre-judged their

guilt. Boy the Bushies really primed the pump for our new American blood lust and contempt due process. :-(

[EFerrari]

63. More, they're reframed what criminality is, right?

"Criminality" is what we do when we fight back against the profound corruption of our government. It's not the Pentagon's murder cover ups, it's not the State Department obstruction of justice in Spain or forcing Monsanto down Europe's throat, it's not the illegal deployment of government assassins in Pakistan.

[kpete]

59. got your back:

The Most Dangerous Man in America: Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers

........... Hailed as a hero, vilified as a traitor, and ostracized by even his closest colleagues, Ellsberg risked life in prison to stop a war he helped plan.
http://www.carolinatheatre.org/screen/most-dangerous-man-america-daniel-ellsberg-and-pentagon-papers

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. Yep. And, as with Manning, he was called a traitor and "dangerous".

It's almost laughable how frightened the government and it's apologists are of the people having information about what their government actually does. Hell, they even "resigned" one of their mouthpieces because he dared call Manning's treatment "stupid".

[EFerrari]

72. One of the three top mouthpieces.

That's pretty impressive. I hope that means someone somewhere in the sewers of government is fighting this cr@p but I'm not holding my breath.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

74. This whole affair displays how frightened this administration is of being exposed.

It's all rather pathetic the lengths they are going to cover up their crimes.

[Scurrilous]

52. I thought we were all Julian Assange? n/t

[seabeyond]

54. lol. god, never. wash that mouth out. geeesh. ewww, lol. nt

[kpete]

55. not until

we arrest him w/o a trial for treason
update to add: :sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

57. i find the man creepy. i dont want to be him, either. what does your post have to do with

that?

[ileus]

56. Not me...he stole or was allowed to steal classified documents.

[G_j]

66. K&R!

[TorchTheWitch]

75. Sorry, I'm not a stupid criminal soldier

This gets more absurd every day.

[bvar22]

79. Amusing and Frightening to observe the extent...

...to which some will go to defend & protect our politicians from transparency and accountability.

The Whistleblowers are the true Patriots.
:patriot:

K&R