"Passenger prayer spurs security alert on L.A. flight " I can't believe we're this stupid.

[sinkingfeeling]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42070392/ns/travel-news/

LOS ANGELES — Pilots on an Alaska Airlines flight from Mexico City to Los Angeles locked down the cockpit and alerted authorities Sunday when a flight crew grew alarmed at the behavior of three men who turned out to be conducting an elaborate orthodox Jewish prayer ritual, officials said.

FBI and customs agents along with police and a full assignment of fire trucks met the plane at the gate at Los Angeles International Airport, and the men were escorted off.

After questioning from the FBI, the men were released without being arrested. They continued in their travel which took them overseas, FBI spokeswoman Laura Eimiller told City News Service. Eimiller said she could release no further information because the men were not charged with anything.

Egan said airline officials later learned from law enforcement the men were performing the ritual known as tefillin.

**************
Would it be too much to ask that airlines reviewed religious prayer customs with their crews?

[snappyturtle]

1. Excuse me? Don't airline crews have enough to do without studying

religious prayer customs? Personally, silent prayer works for me in public places.

[SoCalNative]

2. Thank you

eom

[LanternWaste]

4. I imagine we are compelled to ask...

I imagine we are compelled to ask, "which is the greater waste of time-- cultural studies, or wrongful detention?"

[varkam]

3. I may well be wrong in thinking this...

but wrong place, wrong time IMHO. Honestly, I'd probably raise an eye-brow or two if I saw folks doing that right after take-off even if I knew it was a Jewish prayer ritual.

[jpljr77]

5. That was my first reaction, as well.

As in, would it be too much to ask people to practice their religion in places that aren't so closed in and mixed?

And I honestly ask that...maybe it is too much to ask.

[varkam]

10. It isn't even so much the closed in and mixed part that I mind...

I mean, it'd be strange but sure -- go for it, whatever rubs your Buddha.

The bit that I take umbrage with is the fact that you're performing a group-based, esoteric prayer ritual right after the plane that you're on takes off.

[Kennah]

13. I wonder what would the reaction be if ...

... a group of voluptuous wiccan women stripped down to engage in a religious ritual just after take off, pardon the pun.

[Drale]

15. They'd probably get arrested for indecent exposure

but I'm sure the male passengers would enjoy the show.

[stockholmer]

6. but, if logic & rationality were used, the miasma of mass paranoia would pass, & we can't have that

:sarcasm:

[Vinnie From Indy]

7. "an elaborate orthodox Jewish prayer ritual"

Which, I believe, involved chanting and strapping things to their bodies. Yep! Cruising at 30,000 feet in a metal cigar tube seems the perfect place to stage an elaborate, impromptu religious ceremony without giving anyone on the plane any notice whatsoever that this ceremony would take place. Why would anyone be a bit touchy about that?

[snagglepuss]

8. Get get pissed off with people parading their piety in public. There is no

need for public displays. There in no reason people can't say prayers quietly without inflicting their theatrics on others. What if pagans decided strip naked and pray? Should voodoo followers be allowed to strangle chickens in planes?

[LanternWaste]

32. I'm the same way when it comes to philosophies and opinions

I'm the same way when it comes to philosophies and opinions. Can't people believe in a philosophy or have an opinion without saying so aloud or acting it out with absurd theatrics using simplistic props like Che t-shirts or piercings?

(six of one, half a dozen of the other...)

[snagglepuss]

33. Apples and oranges. Would you want to witness a chicken strangled while

in a plane? The theatrical displays of piety are nothing more than arrogence and egotism.

"The trees do not
shout their faith,
But how they speak of God."

[Puglover]

9. After working for an airline for 30 years I believe that if

one of the folks who was going to pray would have told one of the cabin crew that they were going to do this there would not have been a problem. Given the whole attitude towards anything outside of the mainstream on an aircraft during flight since 9/11 to me this would be a no brainer.

[lies and propaganda]

11. How hard is it to PRAY TO YOURSELF???

No matter if its stupid that we are so uber paranoid and dumb.. Wouldn't you try to lessen the spotlight on yourself, knowing that people are paranoid and dumb!!???

[sinkingfeeling]

12. Well, the TSA agrees with me...

https://www.5tjt.com/international-news/6759-tsa-talking-tefillin

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has taken steps to educate its personnel as to the nature, contents, and use of tefillin. Information on tefillin has now been added to briefing materials for security officials across the nation.

Representing the national Orthodox Jewish organization, Rabbi Cohen first raised the tefillin issue with the TSA several years ago, when a number of constituents reported problems they encountered at airport security checkpoints. At that time, Rabbi Cohen explained to agency officials the religious obligation to wear tefillin, what the ritual entails, and—using a pair of dismantled tefillin—showed officials how the items are made and what they contain.

At that time, the TSA responded positively to Agudath Israel’s presentation, and undertook to include within its training manuals information to familiarize its officers with tefillin, and to offer guidance on screening procedures. Work on the specific issue of tefillin training continued while the TSA addressed complex concerns regarding headwear screening procedures—another area of importance to the Orthodox Jewish community and of cooperation between Agudath Israel and the TSA.

[Vinnie From Indy]

17. It would have been way cooler if this was a Kaparot ceremony

Just imagine the scene! Your sitting there waiting for your stale peanuts and a coke and a group next to you jumps up and begins waving live chickens around their heads in a circular motion while chanting.

I'm taking my Festivus Pole on my next flight.

[Boswell]

18. at least they weren't "muslim"

they would be marched in front of Peter King for beheading

[bobbolink]

21. That's encouraging. Thanks for posting this.

I rec'd, but it's still at 0. :cry:

[Happyhippychick]

14. It's easy to judge when you're standing on the ground. At 30,000 feet any kind of

activity that is out of the ordinary is terrifying.

[Buzz Clik]

16. What if they'd been snake handlers?

THERE ARE M****ERF***ING SNAKES ON THE M****ERF***ING PLANE!

[OwnedByFerrets]

20. LMAO

[bobbolink]

19. I agree with you completely, but what you will get is all the anti-religionists

posting their disdain for anyone who professes a faith of any kind.

We have come to a very sad place.

This is what wars are made of.... :cry:

[Vinnie From Indy]

22. Who can forget the horrific wars fought over the "Karapot Incident"

in the late 18th century. Millions dead becuase a few folks began waving chickens around their heads on a trans-atlantic sailing voyage. It was a terrible time that no one wants repeated.

Cheers!

[Jazz Ambassador]

23. This isn't about disdain for faith

It's about the flyers' disdain for common sense. Freedom of religion doesn't mean the right to do anything religious, anytime, without regard to context or consequences -- and if you can't figure out that your incredibly obscure religious ritual, which involves strapping boxes to your body, might not be best performed on an airplane in post-9/11 America, then you've set yourself up for a valuable object lesson on what it means to live in the world.

[bobbolink]

24. I guess you have missed all the threads on this with the hatred exposed.

You might also want to refer to the post on the reaction from the TSA in this thread.

[Jazz Ambassador]

25. You know what's not in this thread?

A single expression of hatred toward religion. Everyone who's been critical here (so far) has said only that there's a time and a place for obscure religious rituals carried out in foreign tongues, and 35,000 feet is neither the time nor place. Frankly, that kind of reflexive "ooo, the hatred!" victimology in the face of cogent and common-sensical criticism just helps give liberals and progressives everywhere a bad name.

[leftynyc]

27. What a bunch of crap

Obscure? No, not so much for anyone who lives near a large city. Foreign Tongues? Yeah, I guess the ANCIENT language of Hebrew is just too much "different" for the english speaking Americans to handle. Those that think all spiritual people should keep it to themselves, I feel the same way about beer drinkers - the smell is disgusting and should NEVER be allowed in public (also ridiculous).

[Jazz Ambassador]

28. Yep, ridiculous

Also ridiculous: pretending that anyone here ever said that "all spiritual people should keep it to themselves" or that religious rituals "should NEVER be allowed in public." Never happened. Not in this thread.

Always ridiculous: mischaracterizing an argument through hyperbole in order to refute it.

[leftynyc]

29. Try post #8 and post #11

And then get back to me.

[Jazz Ambassador]

31. I'll give you #8

And #8 alone (1 comment out of 30). #11 seems to me to be suggesting that the problem was not the ritual per se but the context of the plane, same as most people here. Honestly, is that so hard to understand? If the reaction were instead prompted by a group of teabaggers who suddenly began chanting "the tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of tyrants," would you be here defending their right to free speech?

[bobbolink]

30. .

:rofl: Like they needed *my* help? :rofl:

[varkam]

34. Completely agree -- welcome to DU by the way!

:hi:

[rustydog]

26. Republican shock doctrine works! Be VERY afraid!!! They are everywhere.