Confession: I was nearly suckered into accepting nuclear energy

[RandySF]

Yes, it's true. I, a tree-hugging San Francisco liberal, was nearly suckered into accepting the idea of expanding the use of nuclear power in the US. I badly wanted to get off coal and oil as quickly as possible to stop climate change, better air quality and putting an end to wars for oil. But on the other hand, I didn't think solar power was efficient enough yet to make an immediate transition. So, I thought, let's use the nuke, the Japanese have it and nothing bad happened...until now. Needless to say, I've had a change of heart.

[originalpckelly]

1. We have a fusion reaction so big, it's larger than Earth...

and we're piddling around with dirty fission and unobtainable fusion on Earth?

It's like sitting on a gold mine, or oil deposit, and not doing anything about it.

We're basically a bunch of dumb motherfuckers.

We really need to keep from looking down for our power, and look up for a change.

[tabatha]

2. And lets give a great round of applause

to the person who made refrigerators efficient - otherwise we would have had 20+ nuclear plants in CA.

"Energy efficiency has held a special place in the Northwest energy markets for more than 30 years. That place was created out of a very real need for new energy resources as the Region developed and consumed power from the last of the large, inexpensive hydropower projects that still dominate the region’s power supply. In the late 1970s the Northwest stood at the crossroads faced with two very different choices for supplying future electric needs. On the one hand was the industry standard option of building large conventional (at that time nuclear) power generation plants. On the other hand, a new option was being slowly but surely recognized; a saved kilowatt-hour is just as valuable as a newly generated kWh.

When the costs of the two options were directly compared, it became clear that if there was a way to “acquire” energy efficiency the same way that a conventional generating plant could be constructed, then energy efficiency could be a real contender as the “least-cost” choice. Initially, the region’s power brokers decided to pursue a strategy based on the conventional wisdom and embarked on an ambitious program to build 20 nuclear power plants in 20 years. As the real costs of constructing the first five plants began to hit the electric rates of Northwest consumers, the energy efficiency option became the option of choice, and it was codified into law by the Northwest Power and Conservation Act of 1980. The era of efficiency as a resource had begun."

[Tansy_Gold]

3. "Our Mr. Sun"

From 1956, so you'll have to bear with the kinda hokey religious moralizing since that was standard fare when we were up against the "godless commies," but otherwise quite entertaining and, ahem, enlightening.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-297681774672439227#


I remember seeing this the first time it was on TV but then it was shown almost annually in school. Produced by Frank Capra for Bell Labs, starring Dr. Frank Baxter and Eddie Albert and other big name stars (of the day).

[Thegonagle]

9. So Cheesy...

and right on.

I totally love it!

[NYC_SKP]

4. Nikola Tesla: "If we use fuel to get our power, we are living on our capital..."

Close to 100 years ago:

"No matter what we attempt to do, no matter to what fields we turn our efforts, we are dependent on power. We have to evolve means of obtaining energy from stores which are forever inexhaustible, to perfect methods which do not imply consumption and waste of any material whatever. If we use fuel to get our power, we are living on our capital and exhausting it rapidly. This method is barbarous and wantonly wasteful and will have to be stopped in the interest of coming generations."

Energy sources that require fuel include all fossil fuels (plus ethanol and biodiesel):

COAL
NATURAL GAS
URANIUM/NUCLEAR
PROPANE

Energy sources that do NOT require fuel:

WIND
SOLAR
HYDROPOWER
GEOTHERMAL

And Nikola Tesla was close, I believe, to finding a powerful electromagnetic source of energy bound in the earth's magnetic field.

A frakkin' genius to Edison's fraudulent assholery.

:patriot:

[truedelphi]

5. Tesla showed up at car show in 1931 -

Some colleague of his had built him a car. Some type of electronic gear was in the car, but no gasoline or other liquid fuel.

Tesla shows up, with a box measuring 6 inches by 20 inches by 24 inches.

He combines the box, five or six vacuum tubes, five or six rods, with the electronic gear already in the car, starts the motor, and the car takes off.

He traveled over thirty miles, hitting speeds of over 90 mph.

He was quite pleased with the reaction of the experiment and the crowd that had watched was enthused and excited.

But the mainstream media people denounced his stunt as voo doo and the work of the devil.

Tesla never demonstrated the car again.

[NYC_SKP]

6. Thanks. More about that car, a 1931 Pierce-Arrow:

Nikola Tesla's electric car

After the AC induction motor, we think that the greatest invention of Tesla was the electric car. This was no ordinary battery driven car because this car took its power from the ether, just like an automobile antenna picks up radio waves from the ether.

In 1931, under the financing of Pierce-Arrow and George Westinghouse, a 1931 Pierce-Arrow was selected to be tested at the factory grounds in Buffalo, N.Y. The standard internal combustion engine was removed and an 80-H.P. 1800 r.p.m. electric motor installed to the clutch and transmission. The AC motor measured 40 inches long and 30 inches in diameter and the power leads were left standing in the air—no external power source and no recharging of any batteries was necessary.

At the appointed time, Nikola Tesla arrived from New York City and inspected the Pierce-Arrow automobile. He then went to a local radio store and purchased a handful of tubes (12), wires and assorted resistors. A box measuring 24 inches long, 12 inches wide and 6 inches high was assembled housing the circuit. The box was placed on the front seat and had its wires connected to the air-cooled, brushless motor. Two rods 1/4" in diameter stuck out of the box about 3" in length.

Mr. Tesla got into the driver's seat, pushed the two rods in and stated, "We now have power". He put the car into gear and it moved forward! This vehicle, powered by an AC motor, was driven to speeds of 90 m.p.h. and performed better than any internal combustion engine of its day! One week was spent testing the vehicle. Several newspapers in Buffalo reported this test. When asked where the power came from, Tesla replied, "From the ether all around us".





Here is a report of the incident from Tesla biographer Marc J. Seifer:

"The car a standard Pierce Arrow, with the engine removed and certain other components installed instead. The standard clutch, gear box, and drive train remained.... Under the hood, there was a brushless electric motor, connected to the engine.... Tesla would not divulge who made the motor.
Set into the dash was a "power receiver" consisting of a box ... containing 12 radio tubes.... A vertical antenna, consisting of a 6 ft. rod, was installed and connected to the power receiver in turn, connected to the motor by two heavy, conspicuous cables.... Tesla pushed these in before starting and said: "We now have power."
If this tale is to be believed, it would mean that Tesla had also installed one of his powerful oscillators somewhere near Niagara Falls to provide the wireless energy needed to power the vehicle."(Seifer, Wizard. The Life and Times of Nikola Tesla, p. 419).

http://www.reformation.org/who-killed-electric-car.html

[truedelphi]

10. I had no idea the Pierce Arrow was such a beautiful car.

Glad you could fill in the pieces - I have lent both my books on Tesla out to a friend who promises he'll give them back. (We shall see...)

[JohnnyRingo]

7. It may not be popular this week, but I'm still a proponent

Don't get me wrong, I've always felt we're still infants playing with matches and gunpowder, but there's definitely a future in nuclear energy. Had we spent as much in the last 50 years learning about critical fission as we did on designing fusion bombs we'd be shopping for uranium chips to power our iPods by now.

I'm not saying that today's reactors are safe, but I believe someday they will be, much as primitive man learned not to let fire get out of control and destroy the village. I'm sure there were instinctive detractors back then that thought it best to wear more fur and eat raw meat instead of learning to harness their environment.

We should never stop exploring or learning from our mistakes.

On edit: I am also bullish on renewable and solar power, and think it has to be researched and perfected as well. Anything but fossil fuel.

[Arugula Latte]

8. The thing is, there will always be human error. It's not worth the consequences.

It's just not.

[Gravel Democrat]

11. We should never stop exploring or learning from our mistakes.

Exactly.

But we should never burden our Grandchildren's children with our mistakes. If something can go wrong, history shows it will. So until our "mistakes" don't contaminate land for a few thousand years maybe it makes sense to do a little more studying. And subsidizing something other than highly centralized power distribution.

Quick! Someone tell Portugal Solar doesn't work!



From a distance the bizarre structures sprouting from the high Alentejoplain in eastern Portugal resemble a field of mechanical sunflowers. Each of the 2,520 giant solar panels is the size of a house and they are as technically sophisticated as a car. Their reflective heads tilt to the sky at a permanent 45 degrees as they track the sun through 240 degrees every day.

The world's largest solar photovoltaic farm, generating electricity straight from sunlight, is taking shape near Moura, a small town in a thinly populated and impoverished region which boasts the most sunshine per square metre a year in Europe.

When fully commissioned later this year, the £250m farm set on abandoned state-owned land will be twice the size of any other similar project in the world, covering an area nearly twice the size of London's Hyde park. It is expected to supply 45MW of electricity each year, enough to power 30,000 homes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jun/06/renewableenergy.alternativeenergy

[JohnnyRingo]

12. You're a fan of solar energy

So am I.

Efficiency has a way to go, but with new ribbon technology I'm confident the concept will evolve as the need requires (or even a little behind). I just feel the same about nuclear energy. As we develop the technology, the process will become safer and more efficient. Though we've got safe nuclear propulsion for warships down pat, energy companies have lobbied to stifle federal development funding for all forms of alternative energy.

That will surely change when oil becomes less profitable.

[Paradoxical]

13. I'm a tree hugging liberal and I accept nuclear power.

I'm sick and tired of these idiotic threads where people do nothing but talk about how it's basically impossible to support nuclear power and be liberal in any way.

It's fucking bullshit. Unrec and kick.