Reuters FLASH: TEPCO considering dispersing boric acid over Daiichi No.4 plant from a helicopter

[MelissaB]

Link: http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

[Lone_Star_Dem]

1. Isn't that what they did at Chernobyl?

I think I recall reading that once.

[PufPuf23]

3. They even dumped liquid nitrogen into Chernobyl. nt

[hlthe2b]

5. I wondered about liquid nitrogen, myself....

[Hannah Bell]

9. it seems that nitrogen is actually used routinely in at least some of the plants

in question, can't remember where i saw that, i'll check.

as a neutron (?) absorber/nullifier or something like that.

edit: it was in the press conference given by the guy who designed some of the containment vessels, professor goto (now a nuke opponent).

here:

to counteract this design of containment vehicle is one where you can insert nitrogen into the containment vessel

when you vent gases inside containment vessel you also get rid of nitrogen with hydrogen

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x639624

that might have supposed to have read "get rid of H with N".

there was something else, too, about boric acid used with some designs, N with others, i think...

i was trying to keep up with the speaking so not 100% accurate record

joke in japan now: "it's a miracle! everyone has suddenly turned into nuclear physicists!"

:>)

but i guess it's how we learn things....

[Lastactiongyro]

20. No, they dug a tunnel undeneath and built a room under the melt, then

in the room they intended to put a liquid nitogen unit. But it never happened.. Instead they filled it with concrete.

[MelissaB]

4. I think I read that, too.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

8. I looked and Wikipedia says they dropped sand, lead, and boric acid

So we recalled correctly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

[Lastactiongyro]

23. in that early phase about 600 plots were exposed to high to lethal doses.

[Lastactiongyro]

24. Eventually 500,000 men were exposed to high to lethal doses in the

battle of Chernobyl

[MelissaB]

2. Another link:

http://twitter.com/#!/Reuters

[fascisthunter]

6. Good luck to the Pilot

[jannyk]

7. According to this report, it has gone out all by itself

#
2327: Minoru Ogoda, a spokesman for the Japanese nuclear safety agency, tells AFP: "We have received information from that the fire and smoke is now invisible and it appears to have gone out of its own accord." An explosion on Tuesday morning damaged reactor 4's building and sparked a fire in its spent fuel storage pond. The reactor had been shut down before Friday's earthquake for maintenance, but its spent nuclear fuel rods were stored on the site.

meanwhile......

#
2334: Meanwhile the Tokyo Electric Power Company has said an estimated 70% of the nuclear fuel rods inside reactor 1 at Fukushima Daiichi have been damaged, along with 33% of the rods inside reactor 2, the Kyodo news agency reports. The reactors' cores are believed to have melted partially when their cooling systems malfunctioned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

[Lone_Star_Dem]

11. I don't think the boric acid was to douse the fire

I think the idea is to keep neutron multiplication down.

[jannyk]

15. Yes, I know....but I thought the info might interest some - anyhow...

#
2359: Back to the ongoing crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant: the Kyodo news agency reports that engineers are spraying boric acid to prevent "recriticality" - presumably, the resumption of a self-sustaining nuclear chain reaction - at reactor 4.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

[Lone_Star_Dem]

16. Forgive me for misunderstanding then.

I simply missed your intention.

[MelissaB]

19. I did, too, and am so glad he explained. n/t

[MelissaB]

18. So the fire is out and they are spraying to prevent "recriticality"?

I'm not sure what that means...

[Lone_Star_Dem]

22. I had to ask about that myself

I was told by a friend at NASA it's a when a criticality accident reoccurs. I kid you not. That was her idea of an explanation.

So, I googled and found it in Wikipedia.


A criticality accident, sometimes referred to as an excursion or a power excursion, is an accidental increasing nuclear chain reaction in a fissile material, such as enriched uranium or plutonium. This releases a surge of neutron radiation which is highly dangerous to humans and causes induced radioactivity in the surroundings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticality_accident

I hope that helps.

[TheWraith]

21. You're correct. Boric acid is what's called a "neutron poison."

For the uninitiated, that means that it absorbs stray neutrons, strangling nuclear reactions which depend on neutron propagation, such as fission. It's normally used in the storage of spent fuel rods, but in this case it could be used to try and kill the reactor core.

[nc4bo]

28. So does this mean that the spent fuel rods are exposed and on fire in #4?

Would anyone consider this a confirmation?

:shrug:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

30. They've pretty much admitted as much

This is about last nights fire, not the most recent one.

On Tuesday morning, an explosion was heard and the roof of the building that houses the No.4 reactor was damaged. Tokyo Electric Power, the operator of the plant, says it appears a lack of coolant caused the fuel rods to be exposed, adding that a hydrogen explosion might have occurred.
If the reactor can't be cooled, the fuel rods may emit hydrogen or melt down. Tokyo Electric Power considering pouring water onto the storage pool in the containment vessel through a hole on the roof created by the blast.
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_05.html

However, I'm not sure how they plan on getting the boric acid on the spent fuel. They say the hole in the roof is dozens of meters away from the storage pool.

[Yo_Mama]

12. It started again

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78383.html

They don't know quite what to do about it.

[jannyk]

13. The report of it 'going out' was the fire you posted. Latest News on BBC.

[thewiseguy]

14. There is too much conflicting information going on. No news from Kyodo that it has gone out.

[Yo_Mama]

31. Well people who are local are reporting a smoke plume

Breaking news at Kyodo.

General link:
http://english.kyodonews.jp/

SOMETHING is on fire over there. This reminds me of the Fed talking about "containment" of the financial breakdown early in the progression. It got to be quite a joke.

(Edit) What I really mean is that this "fire" is starting and going out all by itself.

TEPCO doesn't seem to be getting close enough to put water on it; the best guess is that the hydrogen accumulates and ignites, and then flammables burn out, and then the cycle starts all over again. Because this morning at 5:45 they reported smoke and flames, and then when they tried to get closer the flames were gone, and then it is apparent that activity picked up again.

I haven't seen any reports of radiation levels at the plant for a very long time, but TEPCO did say that it can't pour water on it from the ground due to high radiation levels, so the next theory is boric acid coverage. This seems to be a serious and ongoing problem. Also since this thing is on the fourth floor, eventually you have to worry about the whole tank falling down. If it gets hot enough, I would think there could eventually be a structural problem. Maybe that is why they nixed the chopper water drop idea; dropping a lot of water on top of thing certainly wouldn't stabilize the structure and might drain through the building creating a nice radioactive steam bath for the workers down at reactor level.

[Poll_Blind]

10. Yes, please! Unless it makes things worse- I really have no idea.

PB

[taught_me_patience]

17. If I were a pilot, I'd refuse the order.

Sorry... that is a suicide mission. The pilots that flew over Chernobyl are pretty much all dead.

[flamingdem]

26. Plus, the visibility might be very bad due to steam, smoke nt

[noamnety]

27. I'd make the TEPCO CEO ride in the helicopter.

Hell, I think the top 10 earners of TEPCO should have to be in the same area right now as their most at-risk employees.

[jeanpalmer]

25. What about corexit

It did wonders for the Gulf.

[Junkdrawer]

29. Not needed. Radioactivity is already invisible....

Now if you had something that jammed geiger counters....