Evacuation reported on CNN: Prof. Alvarez said this morning that was a sign

[flamingdem]

When asked what to look for Robert Alvarez said:

1. Watch for when they evacuate, that means they have given up hope
2. Watch for announcements on failure of containment

On the live NHK link an announcer was saying it "might be" that containment
was breached at No. 3

Just sayin'

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Edano said that yes

ah what can I say L-7 disaster, am SO GLAD I got my milk today.

[flamingdem]

I think I'm going to the health food store

What else can I do, get some vitamins!

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Tetrapak milk right now

I have my doubts we will need iodine...

[flamingdem]

2. Sample of twitter feed: Anderson Cooper is quite frankly shaken over evacuation news

#
‎
grumpyMichael‎ ... workers evacuated from nuclear plant
ABC News - Japan Earthquake Live‎ - abc.net.au
Twitter - seconds ago
#
‎
treazrmcconnell‎ Anderson Cooper is quite frankly shaken over the evacuation news.
Twitter - seconds ago
#
‎
markvanbaale‎ Not seeing anything on CNN.com yet, but hearing reports that all workers have been evacuated from Fukushima nuclear plant.
Twitter - seconds ago
#
‎
kirkmurphy‎ Beware the Ides of March: All remaining #Fukushima nuke plant workers evacuated. Catastrophe now appears certain. NYT
Latest Updates on Japan's Nuclear Crisis and Earthquake Aftermath ...‎ - nytimes.com
Twitter - seconds ago
#
‎
Mar4L‎ All workers evacuated from nuclear plant in Japan and the experts were saying its not that bad. Tired of trusting experts.
Twitter - seconds ago

[wtmusic]

3. "Professor" Alvarez?

What degree does he have? :shrug:

[flamingdem]

6. Senior Nuke Scholar at IPS

http://www.ips-dc.org/staff/bob

[wtmusic]

8. That doesn't make him a professor. nt

[flamingdem]

10. He is Phd and was addressed as professor, and? nt

[wtmusic]

12. That's what I was asking

Phd in what? I can't find anything online that shows he has a doctorate in anything.

[leeroysphitz]

9. IPS?

Well why didn't you say so?

[flamingdem]

11. Why the bitch fit, you can use google, yes? nt

[leeroysphitz]

31. I was mocking the OP for using it as a source. n/t

[suffragette]

14. He has extensive expertise in this area

http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Robert_Alvarez

Robert Alvarez "is a Senior Scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies in Washington, D.C., where he is currently focused on nuclear disarmament, environmental and energy policies.
"Between 1993 and 1999, Mr. Alvarez served as a Senior Policy Advisor to the Secretary and Deputy Assistant Secretary for National Security and the Environment. While at DOE coordinated the effort to enact nuclear worker compensation legislation. In 1994 and 1995, Bob led teams in North Korea to establish control of nuclear weapons materials. He coordinated nuclear material strategic planning for the department and established the department’s first asset management program. Bob was awarded two Secretarial Gold Medals, the highest awards given by the Department.Prior to joining the DOE, Mr. Alvarez served for five years as a Senior Investigator for the U. S. Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs, chaired by Senator John Glenn, and as one of the Senate’s primary staff experts on the U.S. nuclear weapons program. While serving for Senator Glenn, Bob worked to help establish the environmental cleanup program in the Department of Energy, strengthened the Clean Air Act, uncovered several serious nuclear safety and health problems, improved medical radiation regulations, and created a transition program for communities and workers affected by the closure of nuclear weapons facilities.In 1975 Bob helped found and direct the Environmental Policy Institute (EPI), a respected national public interest organization. He helped enact several federal environmental laws, wrote several influential studies and organized successful political coalitions. He helped organize a successful lawsuit on behalf of the family of Karen Silkwood, a nuclear worker and active union member who was killed under mysterious circumstances in 1974.

[wtmusic]

20. He's an activist with expertise in disarmament

and AFAIK none in nuclear power. And he's not a Phd.

I like to know who I'm listening to.

[suffragette]

26. He's worked in areas of nuclear policy for years

Yes, it's important to look at credentials and yes, I value listening to scientists.
People who actively educate themselves on policy to the extent that they work on policy in government offices in these areas and their input is valued by the Senate have credentials.

[JVS]

21. Professor isn't a degree, it's a level of appointment at a college or university.

[wtmusic]

22. Ah ok.

Is IPS considered a university? :shrug:

[JVS]

23. Nope. And they don't have professors, they seem to have varying ranks of fellows and scholars

Alvarez is called a senior scholar, whatever that means.

[wtmusic]

25. Thx. nt

[jtuck004]

4. This is perhaps the worst news. They were managing the pressures

inside by flooding them, then releasing the steam (which is radioactive), then flooding them, etc.

If the workers have been evacuted that means they have lost hope of control. Which means some portion of the fuel will heat to melting.

The reactors are designed to contain the molten lava at the bottom but if there is water in them, and they did not leave them open to vent (most likley they did, at this stage) then they may well explode from that pressure, at least knocking the panels off.

So now we get to find out if reactors designed to contain a meltdown work...

IIRC

[flamingdem]

7. Update not an abandonment - taken out due to excess radiation nt

[liberalmuse]

19. Are they rotating workers?

I just heard that this is temporary..?

[jtuck004]

27. delete.please

Hate when my computer reboots in the middle of an answer - never know what is gonna happen ;)

[jtuck004]

28. There is no credible authority (at least to me) saying it is temporary.

A government official did come on and say they have abandoned efforts to control the reactor. Then again, the way the reporting is fragmented, even good sources are reaching. I did hear the woman on MSNBC say that, but after listening to her and her "expert" for a bit, I came to the conclusion that they are both too removed from what is going on to rely on, and went back to other online sources.

The prior events point to at least a partial breach of the final cladding of the reactor, and that combined with the age and the likely brittleness of the metal made me think they have lost pressure.

When that happened there was no way to control the steam build up other than to vent radioactive steam (at what intensity has never been described, afaik).

And when that is going on there are decisions being made, off-the-cuff, as to when steam must be released - with unknown effects on the remaining pipe, but a high likelihood that they will exceed its containment capacity.

That would appear to be what has happened, and the radiation finally got so out of control that they had to leave the plant.

Because there is no electriciy, and because all the water used to cool it had to either come from gravity feeds, or perhaps firehoses and portable generators (though we are talking thousands of gallons of water, kind of hard to get that kind of equipment to the site), that means they have lost any control over the reactor.

At this point it is up to the fuel. It will melt, or not. It will be contained by the reactor (which was designed to contain it in this eventuality) or not. With a little luck it will stay inside and cool over a period of years, and then can be removed. Otherwise it melts into the ground, and we have completely uncontrolled release of steam from groundwater.

Unlikely that the fuel in the reactor inner-core actually blows up, (though a steam explosion is still likely, but hopefully would only blow out the access port) but there is an outside chance. I hope that doesn't happen and that the reactor contains it.

[jillan]

13. I just keep waiting for some good news to come out of this - but it keeps going the other way.

My heart breaks for the people of Japan. This is too much to endure.

[suffragette]

15. Feel exactly the same

[originalpckelly]

17. I still cannot believe that I'm watching this on NHK.

For a year I only had over the air TV, and they'd play NHK news casts, and they were so quaint and cute. And now it's like fucking apocalypse now.

[suffragette]

18. I'm watching MSNBC at the moment

What are they saying on NHK?

[originalpckelly]

16. It's pretty much over now.

Now it's for the same shit they did at Chernobyl. Bomb the motherfuckers with some type of boron and shut it the fuck down now.

[damntexdem]

24. A big glowing sign.

Bye bye, Japan.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Not Japan, just a large exclusion zone

[RegieRocker]

30. Cruel and senseless