I have three friends who were in Libya as correspondents... their bosses have pulled them out

[HEyHEY]

Things are getting too hairy. That's scary. They were also scared of being targetted by Gaddafi forces due to being western reporters.

[hlthe2b]

1. I am not very optimistic on this one....

I fear the rebels have been left out to dry by nations that should be aiding them in Gaddafi's removal.

[HEyHEY]

2. I've said it before, we suck. Rwanda, the Balkans, Sudan... history will remember we suck.

We let all these poor people get butchered. Then, we go into places like Iraq and butcher them.

[JVS]

4. If we go in it will only be a matter of time before there is pissing and moaning about....

1) us killing people

2) whatever people who we put in charge killing people


There is no winning this kind of thing.

[hlthe2b]

5. Covert support in concert with Arab neighbors was what I intended...

along with the no fly zone....

[Duende azul]

9. How about doing the same in Bahrain?

[hlthe2b]

10. Unfortunately, we come up against the Saudis...

who have a major stake in maintaining the status quo in Bahrain...

[Alamuti Lotus]

13. their Arab neighbors are all doing the same thing

Do you really suggest Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Yemen, Jordan and Kuwait storming in to Libya to show them how to treat crowds of protesters? They'd compare notes with the Colonel and realize they're all reading from the same manuscript....... I just read Bahrain is bringing in Caterpillar bulldozers to clear the crowds out of Pearl Square, so it looks like they've all got Israeli advisors too. That's just great..

[hlthe2b]

14. What on earth are you talking about.? That reflects nothing remotely

to do with what I was saying?. I don't even know where to begin.... :wtf:

[HEyHEY]

6. I just want airstrikes on his airbases and some heavy armory

Then let the rest work itself out.

[JVS]

7. Things always start out so simple. One day you're sending advisors to aid one side in a civil war.

Before you know it you're dropping defoliant all over the rural areas of the country you're allied with because the rural area is where the insurgents recruit best and you want to force the local population into the cities where the government you support holds sway.

[HEyHEY]

8. Totally get that, but strikes in the balkans didn't end up that way

I think we neeed to set firmlimit of what we're willing to do and do that and no more. I certainly don't want to see any of our forces on the ground. But, at least bombing airfields will stop jets from being able to strafe people.

[David__77]

11. I think the firm limit has already been set.

And for that reason, the US will not militarily intervene. That's one of the reasons I voted and campaigned for Obama - because I didn't want more military adventures.

[HEyHEY]

12. I'm talking about the west.

Canada...etc should and can get involved. I agree the USA has done enough already

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. Starting with the Arab League

[pampango]

15. Agreed. Gaddafi has set a standard that other dictators can use to stay in power.

After Tunisia and Egypt there was some thought that either dictators would not (or could not) use their militaries against their opposition. Part of that was the thought that militaries wouldn't kill their fellow Arabs/Muslims. Part was perhaps an unknown as to what the reaction of the rest of the world would be to the use of massive military force.

Both of those have been dispelled by Gaddafi. The dictators in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere are undoubtedly much more optimistic today about their own prospects for continued rule than they were a month ago.

I do hope that some effective action against Gaddafi is at least formally proposed in the Security Council. If any countries want to veto it (right now it seems that Russia and China are the most likely, but it could be the US or another), get them on record in opposition. If the people of Libya have to pay the price for the rest of the world's (read the UN) preference of a state's rights (sovereignty) over human rights (which would prove that the "Responsibility to Protect" is a nice-looking document but not to be taken seriously), at least let there be a public record of where each country stood. Perhaps the experience of the Libyan people will leave a lasting lesson that will prod the UN to deal with the next similar situation.