Libya Revolution Day 28 (Benghazi protected for another day)

[joshcryer]

Links to sites with updates: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-17">AJE Live Blog March 17 (today) http://blogs.aljazeera.net/twitter-dashboard">AJE Twitter Dashboard http://feb17.info/">feb17.info http://www.livestream.com/libya17feb?utm_source=lsplayer&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=footerlinks">Libya Alhurra (live video webcast from Benghazi) http://www.libyafeb17.com/">libyafeb17.com

Twitter links: http://twitter.com/#!/aymanm">Ayman Mohyeldin, with AJE http://twitter.com/#!/bencnn">Ben Wedeman, with CNN http://twitter.com/#!/tripolitanian">tripolitanian, a Libyan from Tripoli http://twitter.com/#!/BaghdadBrian">Brian Conley, reporter in Libya http://twitter.com/#!/freelibyanyouth">FreeLibyanYouth, Libyan advocate http://twitter.com/#!/LibyaFeb17_com">LibyaFeb17.com twitter account http://twitter.com/#!/ChangeInLibya">ChangeInLibya, Libyan advocate

Useful links: http://audioboo.fm/feb17voices">feb17voices http://www.google.com/search?q=time+in+libya">Current time in Libya http://www.islamicfinder.org/cityPrayerNew.php?country=libya">Prayer times in Libya

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=657497&mesg_id=657497">Day 27 part 2 here.

Revolutionaries captured this fuel tanker yesterday

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-16#update-13676">8:23pm More on the fighting in Ajdabiyah, where Reuters reports that "weary" government soldiers returning from the front lines told journalists that they were meeting "renewed resistance" from the rebels.

The rebels, meanwhile, appear confident of turning the tide, warning of "surprises".

"The fighting is fierce. His supply lines are stretched so he can't push on from Ajdabiyah. We've got some surprises in store. We're going to fight on and we're going to win," said Mustafa Gheiriani, a rebel spokesman in Benghazi.

Reinforcements from Benghazi are said to be heading to Ajdabiyah to help rebels there.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-16#update-13836">10:23pm Updates from Misurata now, where pro-democracy fighters say they are holding their ground against an assault by pro-Gaddafi troops.

"The fighters have defeated Gaddafi's forces from the southern and western side (of the city)," a resident, who gave his name as Mohammed, told Reuters by telephone.

"The shelling on the city stopped and the rebels have captured some tanks. The battle is continuing on the eastern side, but it is not a heavy one."

"They are trying to enter the city. I do not think they will be able to do it, at least not today," a pro-democracy fighter said.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-16#update-13851">10:43pm In an interview with the French Le Figaro newspaper, Muammar Gaddafi says he will win "because the people are with me". He has dismissed the idea of dialogue with the opposition, saying that there can be no dialogue with "al-Qaeda".

He also alleges that pro-democracy activists in Benghazi are "gangs" who are "likely to use citizens as human shields".

Gaddafi claims that soldiers who now refuse to accept his authority and have joined the opposition were "forced" to do so by "terrorists" who "did not let them have a choice".

He says that the government is still not using force, and that its current strategy is to "progressively dismantle armed groups through various means", including encircling cities and sending in negotiators.

While Gaddafi spoke yesterday, protestors in Benghazi threw shoes

"One month ago (Western countries) were sooo nice, so nice like pussycats," Saif says in a contemptuous sing-song tone."Now they want to be really aggressive like tigers. (But) soon they will come back, and cut oil deals, contracts. We know this game." - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2058389,00.html">Saif Gaddafi

(Yeah, Saif, as if you weren't "cutting oil deals, contracts" with western states.)

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0">March 10 7:28pm Saif al Islam Gaddafi says "the time has come for full-scale military action" against Libyan rebels. He goes on to say that Libyan forces loyal to his family "will never surrender, even if western powers intervene".

And so it began.

http://english.aljazeera.net/video/europe/2011/03/2011310193023263578.html">France recognises Libya opposition: France has now officially recognised the National Council, the alternative government set up by the Libyan opposition in Benghazi, and has severed ties with Muammar Gaddafi's regime.

Reports from France, meanwhile, indicate that Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, is also considering lobbying the EU to back air strikes against specific targets in Libya.

Al Jazeera's Tim Friend reports from Paris.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/feb/27/libya-tripoli-unrest-gaddafi-map">Click here for updated and interactive map

Military Installations



Oil Map



http://bit.ly/fe3P">Google Earth DL here to see positions of army and patrolling route of mercenaries

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=212059469427545728757.00049c4df2474b6543347&ll=31.203405,30.058594&spn=96.173452,183.867188&z=3">MAP of Protests across the Middle East

[joshcryer]

1. Current time in Libya, 12:01am, March 17

[joshcryer]

2. Four New York Times Journalists Are Missing in Libya

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/four-new-york-times-journalists-are-missing-in-libya/?src=tptw">Four New York Times Journalists Are Missing in Libya
The New York Times said Wednesday that four of its journalists reporting on the conflict in Libya were missing.

Editors at the paper said they were last in contact with the journalists on Tuesday morning New York time. The paper said it had received secondhand reports that members of its reporting team on the ground in the port city of Ajdabiya had been swept up by Libyan government forces.

The paper’s executive editor, Bill Keller, said The Times had not been able to confirm that information.

“We have talked with officials of the Libyan government in Tripoli, and they tell us they are attempting to ascertain the whereabouts of our journalists,” Mr. Keller said. “We are grateful to the Libyan government for their assurance that if our journalists were captured they would be released promptly and unharmed.”

NYT: afraid they aren't just missing. :(

[joshcryer]

3. Pictures of the captured tanker:

[joshcryer]

4. ICRC withdraws from Benghazi, urges lives be spared

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/us-libya-cross-idUSTRE72F76220110316">ICRC withdraws from Benghazi, urges lives be spared
(Reuters) - The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said on Wednesday it had withdrawn its aid workers from Benghazi and called on both warring sides in Libya to spare civilians and medical staff.

The independent humanitarian agency was among the only aid agencies deployed in the rebel stronghold in the east, where Libyan forces advanced on Wednesday as diplomatic steps to stop the bloodshed ran aground.

"The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) today (Wednesday) transferred its staff in Benghazi to the eastern city of Tobruk, where it will continue to assist victims of the conflict," the Geneva-based agency said in a statement.

Before leaving Benghazi, the ICRC handed over to the Libyan Red Crescent enough food and other essential relief items to cover the needs of up to 15,000 people for one month, it said. The Libyan Red Crescent would continue humanitarian activities in and near the city.

Bless them.

[joshcryer]

5. Libyan army has set an ultimatum to clear Benghazi by 2200 GMT, Libyan television reported.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-16#update-13906">0:00am Reuters news agency has reported that the Libyan army has set an ultimatum to clear Benghazi by 2200 GMT, Libyan television reported.

A text on the screen of Al-Libya television addressed the residents of Benghazi saying:

"The army is coming to support you and to cleanse your city from armed gangs.

"It urges you to keep out by midnight of areas where the armed men and weapon storage areas are located."

Give it your best shot Gaddafi scum.

[joshcryer]

6. Iyad El-Baghdadi tweet dump (people showed their colors yesterday):

http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi


http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/48133332445310977">@iyad_elbaghdadi
Iyad El-Baghdadi
To start, yesterday saw some major psychological warfare by Gaddafi, leading to some very interesting observations. #Libya
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/48133710591172608">@iyad_elbaghdadi
Iyad El-Baghdadi
Of course to recap, Gaddafi claimed to have taken Ajdabia; his son Saif said they have almost reached Benghazi... #Libya
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/48134079538929665">@iyad_elbaghdadi
Iyad El-Baghdadi
In fact Saif #Gaddafi went so far as to predict victory in 48 hours (now 24 hours), and hinted that they're about to take Tobruq. #Libya
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/48134693035581440">@iyad_elbaghdadi
Iyad El-Baghdadi
But I was more interested in the reaction to all that, from various sides & parties. #Libya
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/48134845880217601">@iyad_elbaghdadi
Iyad El-Baghdadi
To start, many supposed "observers" couldn't hide their excitement as they gloated over the revolution's "imminent defeat". #Libya
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/48135005817417728">@iyad_elbaghdadi
Iyad El-Baghdadi
These "lurkers" appeared to be disinterested observers but now show us where their true sympathies (or interests) lay. #Libya
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/48135173262422016">@iyad_elbaghdadi
Iyad El-Baghdadi
So thank you, Gaddafi, for helping us spot hypocrites and know who's friend and who's foe. #Libya
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/48135330271993856">@iyad_elbaghdadi
Iyad El-Baghdadi
Second interesting reaction was foreign media, with the possible exception of Aljazeera. #Libya
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/48135497108815872">@iyad_elbaghdadi
Iyad El-Baghdadi
It was almost painful to see supposedly professional news networks eating up and regurgitating Gaddafi's propaganda! #Libya
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/48135744564379648">@iyad_elbaghdadi
Iyad El-Baghdadi
We know that many international media pulled their reporters from the east after the death of Aljazeera's cameraman a few days ago. #Libya
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/48136036483731457">@iyad_elbaghdadi
Iyad El-Baghdadi
But what awaits further explanation is why they immediately shifted from direct reporting to simply airing Gaddafi's propaganda? #Libya
1 hour ago

[joshcryer]

7. @tripolitanian tweets:

http://twitter.com/#!/tripolitanian

[joshcryer]

8. #Libyans will never forget who stood with us, and who stood against us.

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48054957940809728">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
#Libyans will never forget who stood with us, and who stood against us. | #Libya #Feb17
6 hours ago

[joshcryer]

9. #Saif #Gaddafi says it will all be over in 48hrs | #Libya #Feb17

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48055949876936704">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
#Saif #Gaddafi says it will all be over in 48hrs | #Libya #Feb17
6 hours ago

[joshcryer]

10. looks like it's time to use the block function..

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48059060083363840">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
looks like it's time to use the block function..
6 hours ago

[joshcryer]

11. Referring to the people on Twitter who showed their true colors.

[joshcryer]

12. #Gaddafi forces currently using tanks to shell mosques and residential areas

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48062970806272001">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
#Gaddafi forces currently using tanks to shell mosques and residential areas | #Libya #Feb17
5 hours ago

[joshcryer]

13. Italian oil firm Eni says they want sanctions on #Libya lifted so they can continue to import oil.

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48064002189836288">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
Italian oil firm #Eni says they want sanctions on #Libya regime to be lifted so that they can continue to import oil. | #Libya #Feb17
5 hours ago

[joshcryer]

14. For oil companies: Oil > Blood | #Libya #Feb17

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48064916296450048">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
For oil companies: Oil > Blood | #Libya #Feb17
5 hours ago

[joshcryer]

15. Large-scale kidnapping campaign going on in #Zwara, families trying to escape are being shot

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48130194921373696">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
Large-scale kidnapping campaign going on in #Zwara, families trying to escape the city into #Tunisia are being shot | #Libya #Feb17
1 hour ago

[joshcryer]

16. The world is seriously failing #Libya - unfortunately the #Libyan people will pay the price

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48130748254916608">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
The world is seriously failing #Libya - unfortunately the #Libyan people will pay the price for the failure
1 hour ago

[joshcryer]

17. #Gaddafi has deployed hundreds of tanks and armored vehicles

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48131170755555328">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
#Gaddafi has deployed hundreds of tanks and armored vehicles, thousands of troops on the outskirts of #Ajdabiya | #Libya #Feb17
1 hour ago

[joshcryer]

18. thousands of troops on the outskirts of #Ajdabiya

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48131170755555328">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
#Gaddafi has deployed hundreds of tanks and armored vehicles, thousands of troops on the outskirts of #Ajdabiya | #Libya #Feb17
1 hour ago

[joshcryer]

19. Breaking news: The #UN have talked again today.......

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48132598047838208">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
Breaking news: The #UN have talked again today.......
1 hour ago

[joshcryer]

21. DO NOT LISTEN TO THE CRAP FROM THE MEDIA, #BENGHAZI WILL NOT FALL, #LIBYA WILL BE FREE.

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48158827614445568">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
DO NOT LISTEN TO THE CRAP FROM THE MEDIA, #BENGHAZI WILL NOT FALL, #LIBYA WILL BE FREE.
28 minutes ago

[joshcryer]

22. Any country that cares 4 human life, & human rights & relationship with Libyan ppl will pass resolu.

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48159822914387969@Tripolitanian>
Libyan
#Libyan Envoy to #UN: "Any country which cares for human life, and human rights and their relationship with the Libyan ppl will pass resol"
24 minutes ago

[joshcryer]

23. #Libyan envoy to the #UN is very optimistic that the people of #Libya can defeat #Gaddafi

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48160530455736320">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
#Libyan envoy to the #UN is very optimistic that the people of #Libya can defeat #Gaddafi - #prayforlibya
22 minutes ago

[joshcryer]

24. Members of the #UNSC have given indications that Arab states will be involved in the #NFZ

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48161896980955136">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
Members of the #UNSC have given indications that Arab states will be involved in the #NFZ
16 minutes ago

[joshcryer]

25. Despite efforts by the #UK, #France, #Lebanon and #Libya - #UN has come out with nothing today.

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48162314515521536">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
Despite efforts by the #UK, #France, #Lebanon and #Libya - #UN has come out with nothing today.
15 minutes ago

[joshcryer]

26. How can the intl. community allow a psychological corrupt person like #Gaddafi to rule a country?

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48163832723554304">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
How can the international community allow a psychological corrupt person like #Gaddafi to rule an entire country?
9 minutes ago

[joshcryer]

27. addafi sending mercenaries to #Ajdabiya as we speak - they were given specific orders: kill everyone

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48164448707428353">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
#Gaddafi sending mercenaries to #Ajdabiya as we speak - they were given specific orders: kill everyone, destroy everything | #Libya
7 minutes ago

[joshcryer]

28. In #Zwara - thousands of youth have gone missing in the past few days, where they are, no one knows.

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48165139643510784">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
CONFIRMED from friend: In #Zwara - thousands of youth have gone missing in the past few days, where they are, no one knows. | #Libya
5 minutes ago

[joshcryer]

33. #Denmark promises 4 F-16's to enforce #NFZ to protect #Libyan people - THANK YOU DENMARK! :)

http://twitter.com/#!/Tripolitanian/status/48195056984793089">@Tripolitanian
Libyan
#Denmark promises 4 F-16's to enforce #NFZ to protect #Libyan people | http://bit.ly/eHt0bN | THANK YOU DENMARK! :) | #Libya
1 minute ago

[joshcryer]

20. Libyan Envoy Says Security Council Must Act in Next 10 Hours

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/16/libyan-envoy-says-security-council-must-act-in-next-10-hours/">Libyan Envoy Says Security Council Must Act in Next 10 Hours
UNITED NATIONS -- Ibrahim Dabbashi, Libya's deputy envoy to the U.N. who has turned against Moammar Gadhafi, said today the U.N. Security Council had 10 hours to pass a resolution imposing a no-fly zone in Libya and possibly authorizing airstrikes.

"We think Col. Gadhafi today has lost his mind," Dabbashi told journalists, explaining that Gadhafi's forces had instructions to "destroy everything and kill whoever you find" in the eastern city of Ajdabiya.

"We think that in the coming hours we will see real genocide in Ajdabiya," he said. "The international community has to act within the next 10 hours."

Dabbashi said Gadhafi's forces would unleash "ethnic cleansing" on villages in mountain region of the western part of the country. "I think something will be in the resolution to allow air strikes," he said.

[happyslug]

29. Tactics in Libya has NOT changed since the Days of Rommel and the Afrika Corp

Basically the only decent roads in Libya are along the coast, any supply line MUST go via that coastal highway.

On the other hand, if you can move across the sands in the Desert (via Camels, Horses or Tanks) you can outflank any force trying to block movement on that highway. Thus the key to winning in Libya is setting up defensive positions that can hold out against a three way attack (From the Desert, from the front along the coastal Highway, and from the rear along the coastal Highway). The defensive forces MUST hold out and string out any attack on the defensive position. The problem with this in 1942 is the same as today, if you have the forces to defend such a defensive position, you attack with those same forces, forcing the other side to retreat and set up such defensive positions.

Thus fighting in Libya today is like it was in WWII, one force advances till it runs out of supplies, the other side then gets resupplied and attacks, till it runs out of supplies. This advance and retreat repeats until someone is able to get enough supplies to maintain an attack for the whole length of Libya i.e. either into Egypt or Tunisia. In the case of Rommel, it was the British who was able to sustain the supply line (and Rommel also had to worry about the American invasion of Algeria and Morocco in the fall of 1942).

No one is even thinking about an attack from Egypt or Tunisia, thus how the war ended in the Desert in WWII does not apply at present. What does apply is that the attacking forces, if they can get forces to move on the Desert sands, will prevail.

The rebels have a lot of Pickup trucks and even heaver duty trucks, but even if four wheel drive of limited help on desert sands. You need a horse (With a lot of water), a Camel, or a tank. The rebels have no tanks, appears to have no camels or horses thus any movement in the Desert has to be on foot.

The main enemy of tanks in the desert is Air Power, and right now Qaddafi has control of the Air over Libya. A no Fly Zone would kill that superiority and restrict Qaddafi's use of tanks, but does not by itself cut out all of the advantages of tanks.

Sorry, Qaddafi's sons prediction that this be over in 48 hours sounds about right. The difficult time was getting the forces together, which Qaddafi has done that and now it is only a matter of his forces taking the coastal cities one at a time. Qaddafi has the tanks, the APC to provide Infantry support and the Artillery to provide close in support. Qaddafi's air force can provide air cover. The revolution had its chance but it seems never to have made much headroom in the eastern part of Libya (Namely Tripoli) and once Qaddafi was able to collect his forces into a single unit of attack the Rebels had to either stop him stretching out his forces (Including sending out forces into the Desert to stop to push further into the desert). The problem with sending out forces into the desert is you need to make sure such forces have water, which means some sort of supply system. Pickups are NOT good enough (Even if four wheel drive). Trucks with low pressure tires are one solution (But as to lower the pressure in the tires, you lower the capacity of the truck), tracked vehicles are another. I do not see the rebels having either and thus they can NOT prevent a tank attack across the desert that outflanks and cuts off any defensive position.

In short, Qaddafi's forces will slowly outflank any defensive position and destroy that position. This will continue till you hit something that prevents Qaddafi's forces from using the desert to outflank any defensive position on the Coast Highway (and the only place you have such a barrier is the Qattara depression the other side of the Egyptian border, where the British stopped Rommel's attack and where various Egyptian Forces over the last 6000 years have stopped almost all invasions from Libya.

For more on the Qattara Depression see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qattara_Depression

[joshcryer]

30. Gaddafi's position would at least be equalized with a NFZ.

As it stands now you can't use the desert to travel because he will see you and then bomb those positions. He can use the road all he wants, if Brega or Ras Lanuf can be retaken then the men beyond are without supplies, and they will fall rapidly.

[joshcryer]

31. UN Security Council have reached an agreement on the text of a draft resolution on Libya

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-17#update-13926">1:29am The AFP news agency reported on Wednesday that the UN Security Council have reached an agreement on the text of a draft resolution on Libya, which will be put to a vote on Thursday, diplomats said.

[joshcryer]

32. The Security Council will continue the negotiations on Libya Thursday.

1:47am The US ambassador to the United Nations has said that the Security Council will continue the negotiations on Libya Thursday.

"My hope that we are able to reach a serious resolution."

[joshcryer]

34. The UN Security Council may need to take measures in Libya that go beyond a no-fly zone in Libya

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-17#update-13936">1:53am The UN Security Council may need to take measures in Libya that go beyond a no-fly zone in Libya, the US envoy to the United Nations said Wednesday.

Can't wait for the rhetoric for this one.

[joshcryer]

35. Draft UN resolution here, haven't read it yet (PDF):

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/March_16_LibyaDraftResolution2011_1.pdf

[joshcryer]

36. Does not have weasel language to let the US put troops on the ground.

I don't see where the "need to take measures in Libya that go beyond a no-fly zone in Libya" is reflected in this draft, however, I don't see member states allowing anything beyond strategic airstrikes as commanded by the Arab League.

The article itself puts most of the onus on the Arab League:

Authorizes Member States to take all necessary measures to enforce compliance with the ban on flights established in paragraph 3 above and to prevent any use of aircraft for aerial attacks against the civilian population, and requests the States concerned in cooperation with the League of Arab States to coordinate closely with the Secretary General on the measures they are taking to implement this ban, including by establishing an appropriate mechanism for implementing the provisions of paragraphs 3 and 4 above.

[joshcryer]

37. Specter of Rebel Rout Helps Shift U.S. Policy on Libya

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/world/africa/17diplomacy.html?_r=3&partner=rss&emc=rss">Specter of Rebel Rout Helps Shift U.S. Policy on Libya
WASHINGTON — The prospect of a deadly siege of the rebel stronghold in Benghazi, Libya, has produced a striking shift in tone from the Obama administration, which is now pushing for the United Nations to authorize aerial bombing of Libyan tanks and heavy artillery to try to halt the advance of forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.

The administration, which remains deeply reluctant to be drawn into an armed conflict in yet another Muslim country, is nevertheless backing a resolution in the Security Council that would give countries a broad range of options for aiding the Libyan rebels, including military steps that go well beyond a no-flight zone.

Administration officials — who have been debating a no-flight zone for weeks — concluded that such a step now would be “too little, too late” for rebels who have been pushed back to Benghazi. That suggests more aggressive measures, which some military analysts have called a no-drive zone, to prevent Colonel Qaddafi from moving tanks and artillery into Benghazi.

The United States is insisting that any military action would have to be carried out by an international coalition, including Libya’s Arab neighbors.

[joshcryer]

38. Oh so now there are enough dead bodies to give a shit?

Oh wait we'd be wrong to help them, forgot, sorry.

[pinboy3niner]

39. K&R...

I'm back online now, Josh. My modem died last night, and it took nearly 24 hours to get everything straightened out and get back online. Going to take a look now and see what I need to catch up on...

:hi:

[joshcryer]

40. F-16s readied to defend Libyan people

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/international/89-international/51195-denmark-ready-with-f-16s-to-defend-libyan-people.html">F-16s readied to defend Libyan people
Lene Espersen, the foreign minister, told parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee on Tuesday that the Air Force is preparing four F-16 fighter jets to take part in an internationally-backed no-fly zone over Libya, should Nato high command decide to act.

The government is trying to build support in parliament and internationally for a United Nations-backed no-fly zone over Libya to block Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi from making further advances against rebel forces and attacking Libyan civilians.

"The Arab world has made it very clear that the UN Security Council must make the decision. That’s why we all need to work right now to ensure that the UN Security Council has the backing it needs to make that decision,” Espersen said.

Espersen emphasised her hope that the UN Security Council could reach a decision before Qaddafi succeeds in crushing rebels in Benghazi and Tobruk in Libya’s east.

[joshcryer]

41. "We think that Gaddafi has lost his mind." Libyan UN ambassado briefing on upcoming resolution vote.

http://www.unmultimedia.org/tv/webcast/2011/03/16126.html

Haha, it's awesome how he says that!

[bobbolink]

42. Capturing a fuel tanker! These people are so amazing! We have so much to learn from them!

[joshcryer]

43. American's must jump in and fix it:

[pinboy3niner]

46. But...might get plane dirty...

:evilgrin:

[joshcryer]

47. +1

[joshcryer]

44. Interview with a Libyan pilot, "Algerian military is assisting Gaddafi"

http://feb17.info/general/interview-with-a-libyan-pilot-algerian-military-is-assisting-gaddafi/">Interview with a Libyan pilot, "Algerian military is assisting Gaddafi"
In fact, I have in my possession some very important documents (link below shows the documents) that truly prove the culpability of Algeria, the Algerian government, the Algerian Airlines, and the Algerian Air Force. These documents, my honoured brother, have the registration numbers of many Algerian airplanes that start with the number 7T; in English the reference is "seven tango". The kind of aircrafts that I have documents on are of either three or four types of aircraft, or five to be truthful with you. In regard to the Algerian forces, it sent planes which were civilian planes used to transport soldiers, military equipment, ammunitions, and others. What I have in my position now are many documents, and I did not have enough time to go over it all..."

[joshcryer]

45. U.S. joins France and UK in urging swift U.N. Libya action

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/us-libya-un-idUSTRE71P26Z20110316">U.S. joins France and UK in urging swift U.N. Libya action
(Reuters) - The United States, France and Britain on Wednesday urged the U.N. Security Council to take swift action on a proposed no-fly zone over Libya, as Washington suggested it might have decided to back the plan.

The Security Council met through the day behind closed doors to discuss a draft resolution authorizing a no-fly zone to halt Libyan government air strikes on rebels. But some council members, including veto powers Russia and China, are either undecided or have doubts.

British, French and Lebanese envoys distributed the draft on Tuesday after the Arab League called on the council to approve a no-fly zone in Libya.

Libya's deputy U.N. envoy Ibrahim Dabbashi, whose denunciation of leader Muammar Gaddafi last month inspired dozens of similar defections by Tripoli's diplomats worldwide, said there was no time for delays as Gaddafi's forces continue to pummel rebel forces in the east.

[pinboy3niner]

48. U.S. Libya policy: "Change came overnight on Tuesday"

From AJE Libya Live Blog - March 17:

3:30am < 9:30pm EDT 3/16 >

Al Jazeera’s Scott Heidler said that Rice’s call for “a resolution that should go beyond a no-fly zone, is something that we haven't heard before.

“We are hearing from diplomatic sources that change came over night on Tuesday when an initial draft resolution presented and discussed yesterday afternoon.

“She came into the discussions today (Wednesday) with a different point of view. And that was yes no-fly zone and even a step further beyond a no-fly zone.”

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-17

[HEyHEY]

49. Only cryer kicks this

Says alot about DU.

[Raksha]

53. Sorry I forgo to kick it.

I've been reading every one of the Libya threads every day, even though I haven't posted anything. I am beyond disgusted with the G8, who obviously don't want to see a genuine grassroots people's revolution succeed anywhere. If the no-fly zone had gone into effect a week ago Gaddafi would be history by now.

[joshcryer]

50. France, Britain and the United States have pressed for a UN Security Council vote on Thursday

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-17#update-13961">3:00am France, Britain and the United States have pressed for a UN Security Council vote on Thursday on a no fly zone to halt Muammar Gaddafi's attacks on rebels.

Council ambassadors met behind closed doors to debate the text for more than eight hours on Wednesday, and said they would return on Thursday morning.

[joshcryer]

51. Gaddafii said his forces would fight a "decisive battle" on Thursday

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-17#update-13981">6:12pm Gaddafii said his forces would fight a "decisive battle" on Thursday, as diplomats backing a no-fly zone to rein him in pressed for a vote at the UN Security Council.

[pinboy3niner]

52. Beat me to it this time, Josh! :)

Did you see my note in #39?

[catchnrelease]

54. When will they stop dithering around!!!!!!!!!!

[pinboy3niner]

55. NYT interactive map of how the rebellion has been unfolding in Libya since Feb 16 to today:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/02/25/world/middleeast/map-of-how-the-protests-unfolded-in-libya.html

[Moral_Imagination]

56. Enough of the NeoCon drivel...

Tell these people to get off twitter... grab a gun and fight for their own country.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moral_Imagination]

58. So you want us to intervene? n/t

[HEyHEY]

59. Well, I certainly don't want to insinuate all these people dying aren't fighting for their country

And yes, I think we should take out Gaddafi's airfields.

[hardcover]

65. I don't.

In reading all the tweets here the revolutionaries have been clear that they don't want western help. It would be better if the Arab League would do it.

[joshcryer]

68. Actually, they don't give a crap who does it, but the US wants the Arab League to "lead it"...

...for political purposes.

If you're getting blown to bits by an enemy you damn sure wouldn't care if you saw said enemy get blown up. But demagogues like Castro or Chavez would claim that the person helping you was an evil imperialist force and you'd have to question their motives, and so on. The US has been waiting to get the Arab Leagues blessing and the UNs vote of confidence. In the end we're going to be doing the job.

[HEyHEY]

81. No, they don't want a ground assault, they want a no fly zone

[joshcryer]

67. Hmm, there aren't enough guns to go around, Gaddafi bombed their munitions.

The vast majority of the opposition is unarmed and unable to be armed.

[pinboy3niner]

69. And they can't use their heavy weapons because of Gaddafi's air power

Al Jazeera has done an excellent job of pointing out, repeatedly, that the opposition has not been able to maneuver and deploy its heavy weapons because, in the open, they'd be destroyed by Gaddafi's warplanes.

Besides some heavy artillery, the opposition reportedly also has more than 100 tanks.

[joshcryer]

71. I wasn't aware of that, that's fantastic, and does explain why they want the NFZ more clearly.

Those who control the skies control the war.

[pinboy3niner]

60. 4 New York Times journalists missing in Libya

4 New York Times journalists missing in Libya

The newspaper says two reporters and two photographers were apparently picked up by Libyan forces near Ajdabiya.

From Times Staff and Wire Reports
March 16, 2011, 8:20 p.m.

...


The newspaper said it had received secondhand information that reporters Anthony Shadid and Stephen Farrell and photographers Tyler Hicks and Lynsey Addario had been picked up by government forces near Ajdabiya.

http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/la-fg-libya-reporters-20110317,0,633628.story

NYT report posted in LBN by Turborama:

Four New York Times Journalists Are Missing in Libya
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4773870

[pinboy3niner]

61. Earlier interview w/ missing war photog Hicks (including his photos):

After photographing the fighting around Ras Lanuf, Hicks said in the interview that it was the “thickest fighting in a single day” that he has ever experienced. The interview and his Libya war photos at the link:

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/in-the-thick-of-libyas-brutal-fighting

[joshcryer]

70. I suspect that Hicks was disappeared for that article.

It showed that in the end Gaddafi wasn't fighting some small rag tag team of terrorists but rather a real military force.

Gaddafi didn't like it.

[HEyHEY]

62. This is why my friends were pulled out by their organizations

They are targetting journlaists now.

[pinboy3niner]

64. That was after Al Jazeera cameraman Ali Hassan al Jaber was killed, wasn't it?

Journalists already were being detained--and in some cases, beaten--before that. And there had been reports that the regime had put out a 'hit' on Al Jazeera news personnel.

[joshcryer]

73. Yep, I think that was the final straw. The mock executions happened before that.

[pinboy3niner]

75. The Committee to Protect Journalists is documenting all of it:

Since the start of the revolt last month, the government has kept a close eye on journalists. Reporters in Tripoli have been given minders and, in some cases, prevented from covering protests.

The Committee to Protect Journalists said Friday it has documented more than 40 attacks on the media in Libya since February. They include 25 detentions, four assaults, two attacks on news facilities, the jamming of transmissions, and the interruption of internet service, the New York-based advocacy group said.

...


Friday, CNN Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson and his crew were detained in Tajura, Libya, east of Tripoli, by forces loyal to Gadhafi. They were released, though their cabdriver was not.

"We are free to go anywhere, any time, talk to who we want, when we want. That's what Moammar Gadhafi's son told me, that's what Libya told the U.N. We already knew it was all lies -- look at any number of our colleagues arrested, detained, in some cases, beaten -- but today it came home to us personally," Robertson wrote.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/03/12/libya.journalist.killed/index.html

[HEyHEY]

79. Yeah, it was. THey just got out the other day.

[pinboy3niner]

63. Specter of Rebel Rout Helps Shift U.S. Policy on Libya

Specter of Rebel Rout Helps Shift U.S. Policy on Libya


By MARK LANDLER and DAN BILEFSKY
Published: March 16, 2011


WASHINGTON — The prospect of a deadly siege of the rebel stronghold in Benghazi, Libya, has produced a striking shift in tone from the Obama administration, which is now pushing for the United Nations to authorize aerial bombing of Libyan tanks and heavy artillery to try to halt the advance of forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.

The administration, which remains deeply reluctant to be drawn into an armed conflict in yet another Muslim country, is nevertheless backing a resolution in the Security Council that would give countries a broad range of options for aiding the Libyan rebels, including military steps that go well beyond a no-flight zone.

Administration officials — who have been debating a no-flight zone for weeks — concluded that such a step now would be “too little, too late” for rebels who have been pushed back to Benghazi. That suggests more aggressive measures, which some military analysts have called a no-drive zone, to prevent Colonel Qaddafi from moving tanks and artillery into Benghazi.

The United States is insisting that any military action would have to be carried out by an international coalition, including Libya’s Arab neighbors.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/world/africa/17diplomacy.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

[pinboy3niner]

66. AJE's latest report from Benghazi:

7:40am

In Benghazi - Libya's rebel-controlled second largest city - opposition protesters are buoyed by news that fighters in a nearby town have beaten back an offensive by Gaddafi's forces.

While some in the city are apprehensive that the war may still come to their door step, they remain defiant, vowing to fight on to defeat Gaddafi's troops.

Al Jazeera's Tony Birtley reports from Benghazi (2:19):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQMX9IXVqbU&feature=player_embedded


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-17

[joshcryer]

74. Tony Birtley is a hero. I'm having alergy fits which is why I'm not posting so much tonight.

But Tony Birtley has been there almost since day one (beat Amanpour by a day, and still hasn't left).

[pinboy3niner]

72. Time to meet democracy demands in #Libya, Turkish PM says#

zero_world‎ Turkish Cultural Foundation : Time to meet democracy demands in Libya, Turkish PM says - Hurriyet Daily News
http://uxp.in/31244032‎ Twitter - seconds ago

[joshcryer]

76. Avaaz: UNSC: Libya No-Fly Zone, almost at a million (about 20k signups to go).

Doh, forgot a link: http://avaaz.org/en/libya_no_fly_zone_3/?slideshow

[pinboy3niner]

77. #Misrata : just called friend there to check the hospital...full of wounded and dead bodies

Husna_yasmEEn_‎ RT @FromJoanne: #Misrata : just called friend there to check the hospital for me , full of wounded and dead bodies #libya #feb17 via BRQ News #febr17
Twitter - 27 minutes ago

[pinboy3niner]

78. HumanityNews&#8206; News: Libya: Rebels prepare for onslaught by Gaddafi forces

TimeIsOver4Dict‎ RT Several Arab states would aid Libya military op: France #news #Jobs
Several Arab states would aid Libya military op: France |PMOI |‎ - mojahedin.org


HumanityNews‎ News: Libya: Rebels prepare for onslaught by Gaddafi forces
Libya: Rebels prepare for onslaught by Gaddafi forces ...‎ - humanitariannews.org

[pinboy3niner]

80. Tripolitanian&#8206; Called family in #Zwurrah...heard a lot of bad news abt what happened there

Tripolitanian‎ Called family in #Zwurrah a few mins ago, everyone is safe - but also heard a lot of bad news abt what happened there | #Libya
Twitter - 1 minute ago

[pinboy3niner]

82. TheNewsPortal&#8206; Gaddafi fights on while private jets flee Libya - #news

TheNewsPortal‎ Gaddafi fights on while private jets flee Libya - #news
Gaddafi Son Libyan Libya Colonel | The News Portal‎ - thenewsportal.net
Twitter - 2 minutes ago

Meanwhile, as continued heavy fighting forced a shutdown of the key refinery town of Zawiyah 50 km west of Tripoli, reports of three private jets owned by Gaddafi left Libya. The sightings have prompted speculation that Gaddafi or members of his family have fled the country.
http://thenewsportal.net/?p=788433

[pinboy3niner]

83. guardian_world: Defiance & fear in Benghazi as #Libya rebels prepare to fight for their freedom

guardian_world: Defiance & fear in Benghazi as #Libya rebels prepare to fight for their freedom http://t.co/a1i3RrC

[pinboy3niner]

84. Misurata: "at least 80 members of Gaddafi's forces were killed during yesterday's fighting"

Medical sources in Misurata told Al Jazeera that at least 80 members of Gaddafi's forces were killed during yesterday's fighting.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-17

[PufPuf23]

85. Thanks for continuing the Libya threads.

Sad that the anti-Qaddaffi forces are in retreat and also sad of the mixed message of Western Powers and vetos in international organizations.

The event should and could have been dampened two weeks ago.

Personally, I abhor violence and most things military except for the fact that military exists.

Two weeks ago unidentied forces would well have taken out Qaddaffi's safe zone, military airports/Air Force, and specific other known military assets and leveled the playing field for anti-Qadaffi people.

Very out o my character to advocate violence but then this is hindsight compared with what has and may occur.

Qaddaffi could very well go scorched earch and remove two generations of men opposed to his family rule.

[pinboy3niner]

86. Libyan forces predict fall of rebel-held Benghazi 'within 48 hours'

Libyan forces predict fall of rebel-held Benghazi 'within 48 hours'


Gaddafi's son Saif confident of imminent victory amid reports of heavy losses on loyalist side in anti-Gaddafi port of Misrata


Ian Black in Tripoli
The Guardian, Thursday 17 March 2011



The Libyan government claimed on Wednesday that it would defeat opposition forces in Benghazi within 48 hours and put an end to the most serious challenge to Muammar Gaddafi's rule in more than 40 years.

But as the leader's son Saif al-Islam boasted of imminent victory, rebels said they had inflicted heavy losses on government forces fighting to regain control of Misrata, a port which is the last big anti-Gaddafi stronghold in western Libya.

Opposition sources said they had destroyed 16 tanks and captured 20 members of an elite unit commanded by Khamis, another son of Gaddafi, after an armoured force attacked Misrata from the south and west. Artillery and rockets were also deployed.

...


Saif al-Islam poured scorn on talks at the UN and elsewhere to impose a no-fly zone over Libya. "The military operations are finished," he told France's Euronews channel. "In 48 hours everything will be over. Our forces are close to Benghazi. Whatever decision is taken, it will be too late."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/16/libya-benghazi-gaddafi-48-hours

[joshcryer]

87. Video: hospital in Ajdabiya yesterday (graphic)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPJ-XH_6BOc

[pinboy3niner]

88. Rebels battle to hold key city under Gadhafi siege

Rebels battle to hold key city under Gadhafi siege

U.N. Security Council to vote on no-fly zone resolution

updated 32 minutes ago 2011-03-17T07:40:39


Libyan rebels battled to hold a strategic eastern city against a punishing offensive by forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi, voicing anger and frustration at the West for not coming to their aid. At the same time, government troops heavily shelled the last main rebel bastion near the capital.

Charred vehicles, bullet-riddled pickup trucks and an overturned tank littered the desert highway where pro-Gadhafi forces had fought up to the entrance of the key eastern city of Ajdabiya. An Associated Press Television News cameraman counted at least three bodies by the side of the road, evidence of fierce battles.

Government troops were bringing in a stream of truckloads of ammunition, rockets and supplies — signs of an intensified effort by the Libyan leader to retake control of the country he has ruled with an iron fist for more than four decades.

...


Dabbashi said according to his information, Gaddhafi has given instructions to "destroy everything and kill whoever you find in Ajdabiya, and don't spare any lives," and to destroy all the Berber villages which Dabbashi said would constitute "ethnic cleansing."

...


Opposition officials said rebel warplanes struck at pro-Gadhafi forces near the western gate — the first time the rebels have struck from the air at troops on the ground. A gas station attendant on the highway said he saw a rebel helicopter firing rockets and machine guns. A colonel in the pro-Gadhafi force, Moftah Sabia, said the rebels did have some aircraft that they had used against the troops.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42124388/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

[pinboy3niner]

89. On the move and on a mission to crush the opposition - Libyan forces loyal to Gaddafi head east

AJE UPDATE - Tony Birtley's latest report (3:05):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u5KhLtlA0w&feature=player_embedded

[JanDutchy]

90. Request: first source information

like to know what happens in the cities by the forces of Gadhafi recaptured. For example, if you know anything about victims, violence, arrests or people who flee the cities, then welcomes

[pinboy3niner]

91. Bahrain: 6 opposition activists detained in pre-dawn raids

From The Guardian's news blog, Libya and Middle East unrest - live coverage:

7.47am - Bahrain:

After yesterday's assault on Pearl square, Bahrain has detained at least six opposition activists. The Bahrain youth society for human rights said those taken in pre-dawn raids include Hassan Mushaima and Abdul Jalil al-Sangaece who were among 25 Shia activists on trial for trying to overthrow the nation's Sunni rulers. The charges were dropped in a bid to calm tensions after political unrest began last month, but the latest sweeps, the Associated Press says, suggests authorities have abandoned efforts at dialogue and are trying to silence opposition leaders.

Britain is to charter planes to evacuate British citizens who want to leave. The Foreign Office has urged people to leave on commercial flights today. Those who cannot get a ticket will be evacuated on FCO-chartered flights to Dubai costing £260.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/17/libya-middle-east-bahrain-egypt-arab-unrest

[joshcryer]

92. Al Jazeera's Tony Birtley has the latest on the uprising

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u5KhLtlA0w

[joshcryer]

93. Gaddafi fighter jets have bombarded Benina airport, 10km south of Benghazi

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-17#update-14081">12:00pm Gaddafi fighter jets have bombarded Benina airport, 10km south of Benghazi city, Al Jazeera's correspondent reports.

[pinboy3niner]

95. What a coincidence...

That's almost identical to the post I formatted and was just going to post--when I discovered you'd beaten me by seconds! Your allergies are sharpening your game, Josh. :)

[joshcryer]

94. UNSC: Libya No-Fly Zone now has 1 mil. signatures!

Mostly bandwagoners though. NFZ is almost certain now.

After 3 weeks of begging for it.

http://avaaz.org/en/libya_no_fly_zone_3/?slideshow

[pinboy3niner]

96. Goal is now 1,250,000 nt

[joshcryer]

97. Sharp eye, didn't notice that. :)

I'm going to do a part 2 soon, sorry for not getting to it sooner, been a long night. I have not been getting much sleep at all lately. 3-4 hours a night.

[pinboy3niner]

99. I hear you

I just napped for an hour, and have been going on coffee and catnaps for too long. I did get some better sleep yesterday, though, when my failed modem kept me offline.

[joshcryer]

100. I swear I keep reading "catnap" as "catnip" and keep thinking you're really strange!

:P :D :hi:

[pinboy3niner]

98. Bahrain: "This is shocking and illegal conduct," UN Commissioner for Human Rights says

From The Guardian:

10.07am - Bahrain:

The UN commissioner for human rights has strongly criticised Bahrain. Navi Pillay, who has a refreshing penchant for speaking bluntly when governments behave badly, voiced alarm at the "military takeover of hospitals".

"There are reports of arbitrary arrests, killings, beatings of protesters and of medical personnel, and of the takeover of hospitals and medical centres by various security forces," she said in a statement. "This is shocking and illegal conduct."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/17/libya-middle-east-bahrain-egypt-arab-unrest

[joshcryer]

101. Day 28 part 2 here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x669519