What, exactly, is the rich trying to accomplish by being richer

[Hawkeye-X]

and not giving back?

Is it really all about greed?

[Hannah Bell]

1. power ultimately -- control over assets, territory, politics, people's lives

[Hawkeye-X]

4. After that, they'll face death or abandonment of this experiment.

They're just literally ripping the Constitution to shreds.

Something's gonna happen, sooner or later....

It's time to stop getting lip service from the rich and have them pay their fair share.

Even the billionaires are trying to destroy public schools (Bill Gates among others) just to prove they have way too much money to spend.

I believe it is Warren Buffett that said that the taxes for the rich are too low, and needs to be raised.

During Clinton years, he raised taxes, and they paid their fair share. Chimp cut it down, and the rich are being bored and destroying itself from within.

Hawkeye-X

[Abq_Sarah]

42. There's nothing stopping Warren

From getting out his checkbook and writing a nice fat check to the treasury. But no, all the rich people who claim they aren't paying enough can't be bothered to do it on their own... they want the government to force them and everyone under them to pay higher levels of taxation. Can't let the "little people" creep up the income scale.

[Silent3]

43. Wealthy as he is, Buffet alone paying more taxes would hardly make a dent...

...in the deficit. I doubt his simply paying more on his own as a "gesture" or to set an example of some sort would create much of a bandwagon effect among his fellow billionaires either.

If I were that wealthy, and didn't think the rich were being taxed enough, I wouldn't go it alone either, I'd just give more to the causes and charities of my choosing if the government wasn't going to make everyone else in my income bracket pitch in too.

[Hannah Bell]

95. it would if the money he's socked away in private foundations he controls were taxed.

or the income from that money.

[Abq_Sarah]

23. Which explains why

Over half the members of congress are millionaires.

[GKirk]

25. You think having

a million dollars in assets makes you rich? It sure doesn't fell that way.

[Donnachaidh]

32. tell that to the person who has lost their homes, and are now living with relatives

or in shelters, or in the streets. Lost their jobs because businesses moved overseas, or because of cuts owners deemed important just to keep THEIR profit line.

And that IS happening now, while those with millions whine about how tough *their* lives are. :sarcasm:

[Hydra]

35. Care to share some of that with me?

Because being asset neutral sure isn't fun.

[tech9413]

45. You're right, $1M in assets does not make you rich

It might feel like that to most working people. I never made more than $58K a year. My payout on SS will fall far short of what I need to cover living expenses. I'm lucky, I've got retirement accounts that I could cash out and cover expenses for two more decades. I don't plan on living that long. I just want to be sure my 89 y/o parents don't have anything to worry about until they're gone.

I'm 57 and my chances of getting gainful employment in my field or any other are pretty much nil. At this point in my life, I'd rather pass on my skills to someone who could continue the support of needed assets.

[WinkyDink]

48. You are both (insert pejorative adverb) wrong.

[NashVegas]

85. Try Telling It To Someone WIth NO Assets

[WinkyDink]

47. Here's a "feeling" to try: Empathy.

[MedicalAdmin]

24. Poverty = slavery

They want slaves and many of the rich either keep or rent slaves.

[Foo Fighter]

52. You nailed it. It's about power and nothing else. n/t

[tabatha]

2. Buy elections.

[Hawkeye-X]

5. Soon all people KNOW that the elections are fixed

and bought and paid for by the corporations and the rich.. Then the people get pissed off....

Then what?!

[martymar64]

67. The "then what" is what nobody wants to talk about

Everybody knows what it is but are afraid to utter it lest it become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

The "then what" can go several ways. How it will go once it is set into motion is the big question mark.

[socialist_n_TN]

89. The "then what" can get your post deleted.........

or get you tombstoned too, even if it's just alluded to.

Let me hasten to say that I don't blame website owners for treading a careful line about the "then what" issue. These are dangerous times and care IS needed. Unfortunately, one of the conundrums of not talking about "then what" is that there is no strategy developed to CONTROL "then what". "Then what" can go in a LOT of directions and not all of them good for us.

[WinkyDink]

3. They've never read Poe.

[RKP5637]

6. It's a compulsion. Even greed does not explain it all, it's a compusion to

steal and cheat everything off the table while trying to call it legal. I've always felt unbridled capitalism leads to basically sociopathic behavior and moving a society toward fascism.

I really think there is an inner self-satisfaction in some of the grossly wealthy of kicking the majority of the citizens under the table and stepping on them. Regulated capitalism is fine IMO, but we've been living sometime now with a whole lot of cheating and gaming going on. Sadly many Americans remain asleep at the wheel.

[Cassandra]

22. It doesn't so much lead to sociopathic behavior...

as much as it rewards it. Sociopaths function best in this environment and appear successful in a society that overvalues material success.

[RKP5637]

29. Excellent point/comment! Thanks! n/t

[Lorien]

31. If you've ever known any of the extremely rich, then you know what drives them

their vast wealth fails to make them "happy" because they're willing to destroy anything worth living for to amass vast wealth. But, because society tells us all that being wealthy will bring happiness and having more "stuff" will make us better than than our neighbors, the rich believe that they obviously aren't rich enough, otherwise they would be happy. So "more" becomes their one and only objective in life. And having more isn't enough; having more than anyone else becomes the fixation. They can't elevate themselves unless they crush everyone else. They won't stop until they've destroyed the rest of us-or until we find a way to stop them.

[Foo Fighter]

54. "...having more than anyone else becomes the fixation. They can't elevate

themselves unless they crush everyone else."

Bingo! They know damn well they don't deserve their riches (which were, in the vast majority of cases, inherited) and thus have to "prove" how much better they are than everyone else by pushing the "lesser" classes further down.

Lucky for them they have a government that promotes their agenda (thanks to campaign financing).

[Raine]

60. It's a sick twisted addiction

to acquire more and more. Too much is never enough, they'll never have enough to feed that filthy addiction of theirs. They are no better than so crackhead, infact they're worse because society rewards them instead of shaming them the way they do people on drugs.

[Demeter]

7. I think their mental and emotional problems are culminating in a death wish

They don't know how to live, they only know how to steal and indulge themselves.

They don't know how to govern themselves, their families, their appetites--and so they buy countries to practice on.

There is a void, a hole so deep and empty, that no amount of stuff will ever fill--and no structure in society to teach them how to fill up that emptiness, to penetrate that bubble.

Because we are all afraid of death by poverty, we permit greed instead of demanding economic justice and equality and fraternity.

It doesn't make sense. It will change. We can change it the easy way, or the hard way. But even if we do nothing, it will change. Because it cannot continue.

[RKP5637]

15. +1, n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. It's about control.

It's about getting accustom to a certain lifestyle. It's about knowing that the rich get benefits that none of us ever see, and unwilling to let that go.

[Hydra]

33. Benefits isn't the right word

You used the right word to start- control. They get off on it.

The next step is that they codify it- laws. They then exempt themselves from said laws.

In the end, it's about the ability to control and/or destroy other people while being untouchable. Orwell really nailed it:

The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites.

1984

[The Backlash Cometh]

41. Very well said, Hydra.

We live in a stratified system where the rich make the rules, and then, exempt themselves.

Very well said.

[Hydra]

94. T/Y

When I first read 1984, I didn't really understand their mindset. I assumed everyone wanted to work together toward a better world.

Why wouldn't we? The rich would have even more money and opportunities, while everyone else could be as comfortable as they wanted to be.

I had to take a long, hard look at what the rich really wanted when it was clear that their wealth didn't really make them happy, and when I realized they were spending almost more time denying people the right to live a good life.

It was then that I realized Orwell had been entirely accurate in portraying these people, "The Inner Party" as monsters, rather than it being a metaphor.

It's a disturbing idea that such people are in charge.

[treestar]

84. Bingo. control over other people

They do "give back" they just want it to be on their terms, so that any recipient knows it is up to the rich person.

That's why they resist government/law involvement, which would create standards. Why do they claim that "charity" will work? If they are going to give their money to charity, why do they care whether it is government related or not? The government just acts as in between. But the government will have to apply fair standards. The rich want it to be their own standards. They will give to the poor, but only the "deserving" poor, and they want to be the judge of who that is. They want to control behavior that way, so that you can get charity only is you follow their moral codes and their determinations about what lifestyle is proper.

And so they can be racists. The government will have a standard that includes all regardless of ethnic group, religion, etc. The charity view allows the rich to pick and choose on those grounds.

[The Backlash Cometh]

86. "Deserving poor"

It's so true. They only want to bestow kindness to people in their own community that they know well. I've seen this close up and these are my observations:

The deserving poor are white like they are. There may be some legitimate reason for their need, like the death of a parent. Community members take them in, but over the long run, strange things happen. First, they and the children grow up expecting the kindness. They become professional moochers. It's hard to spot unless you've been spotting them over a period of several years, but they do develop the right kindness, the right words to make you think you're doing the right thing. But over time, something might happen that shows their hand. Like maybe you're having a tight year and they let it slip how well their children are doing traveling around the world. One child, because she married well. The other because they're doing missionary work for the church. Or they become complete assholes when they feel their children are not getting enough time on the high school team, even though the kids are not playing up to snuff. Then you realize that the humble persona they have been presenting is just a fake. But, they are the community's target charity case. The people that everyone bestows their kindness to relieve themselves of all the guilt they're carrying.

In other words, the distribution of wealth, even when it happens, is not even.

[valerief]

9. They just want to outdo each other. We non-rich don't factor into the equation. nt

[ShockediSay]

14. Sure we (98%) do; it's at our expense nt

[valerief]

16. Our labor is just something they take for granted. nt

[MrTriumph]

10. Forget US soldiers, teachers, health care workers, etc. Obama spotlights Steve Jobs

x

[WinkyDink]

49. "Celebrate wealth." Never thought I'd hear a Democratic President utter such shamelessness.

[Foo Fighter]

58. Wow, I hadn't heard that one. I don't watch TV and/or check out mainstream

media sites so I had to goggle it. Damn!

"What is…a fact is that people in the top 1 percent, people in the top one-tenth of 1 percent, or one-hundredth of 1 percent have a larger share of income and wealth than any time since the 1920s,” said Obama. “Those are just facts. That’s not a feeling on the part of Democrats. Those are facts.”

“And something that’s always been the greatest strength of America is a thriving, booming middle class, where everybody has got a shot at the American dream. And that should be our goal. That should be what we’re focused on.”

“How are we creating opportunity for everybody? So that we celebrate wealth,” the president continued. “We celebrate somebody like a Steve Jobs, who has created two or three different revolutionary products. We expect that person to be rich, and that’s a good thing. We want that incentive. That’s part of the free market.”

Holy shit, what planet does Obama live on? When the hell was the last time the US had a "thriving middle class?" 1950's and first part of the 1960's or so, right before the they started cutting taxes on the rich. But according to Obama, "celebrating wealth" creates opportunity. Hell, given how he has done nothing but cave to the desires of the wealthy since he's been in office, America should damn well be a "land of opportunity" by now. Apparently the "trickle down" theory doesn't work, even when it's promulgated by a so-called Democrat. Fucking Obama is full of shit and he knows it. He's nothing more than a snake-oil salesman.

[WinkyDink]

73. It is just this "dream of wealth" obscenity that keeps the Middle-Class from aligning with the Poor.

The MC morons convince themselves they will join the ranks of the Rich, so hey---don't tax them!!

[Foo Fighter]

93. Exactly. I see it all the time.

People making $30,000/yr defending the tax cuts for the rich because they're convinced that one day, they too will be millionaires.

[obxhead]

11. Fulfillment of their addiction to greed.

It's not much different than a drug addict chasing their high of choice.

[alterfurz]

30. The appetite grows by eating. -- Francois Rabelais

Our desires always increase with our possessions. The knowledge that something remains yet unenjoyed impairs our enjoyment of the good before us. -- Samuel Johnson

There must be more to life than having everything! -- Maurice Sendak

[U4ikLefty]

12. Why does a dog lick his balls?

Because he can.

[eleny]

13. It's a sickness

[rhett o rick]

17. It's capitalism. nm

[eleny]

18. At it's worst

[rhett o rick]

19. It's not personal, it's just business. I think the link below provides a great explaination.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=576080

[WinkyDink]

50. In that spirit, I say: When's the next baptism?

[rhett o rick]

79. BP is giving mass baptisms in their poluted Gulf. No charge. nm

[bluestate10]

20. They don't think about it.

It is not like they have tanks surrounding their homes to protect them. Or need a big security convoy when leaving home. Europeans are more socialistic because there are people still alive there who know what anarchy is like. Younger Pols like David Cameron that have no clue of what anarchy feels like are working to change taxation and benefits to the favor of the rich, more like in the USA. Things won't change until large masses of people are starving and raiding the wealthy. gangsters during the Great Depression were admired by common people because they robbed wealthy people, or at least their banks. This poster don't want to see a Great Depression repeat and feel that the individual choices that each of us make are more critical than whether the top 2% of wealthy americans are getting away with not paying their fair share.

I will take on people like Gates and Buffett. If either wanted to massive change life in america, they could. If ether wanted to set up prep schools for poor children, they could. If either wanted to fund capital for innovative startup companies that have society's interest first among their business objectives, they can. The same goes for a person a lot of DUers consider a hero, George Soros. Instead of donating to liberal causes and fuming about Obama, Soros can set up a venture capital fund that funds business people that promote and work on important societal issues like green energy source development, environmental toxin abatement and restoration equipment, innovative teaching and learning systems, the list is almost endless. But is is easier to pour millions into politicians that disappoint. Soros is an ultra smart and uber successful man, that he has not seen that pushing forward politicians is not the most effective way to bring about progressive change, is astounding.

[socialist_n_TN]

21. I think it's a penis thing.........

:) But short answer, yes it is all about greed. The SYSTEM itself fosters greed.

[MichiganVote]

26. Yep. Greed. Call it anything you like. Wrap it in economics. Greed is greed.

They have it. You probably don't but they will say you do.

[ananda]

28. Radix malorum est cupiditas.

Greed is the root of all evil.

The Pardoner's Tale

[MichiganVote]

36. There is a sufficiency in the world....

There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed.


Mohandas K. 'Mahatma' Gandhi

[WinkyDink]

51. Yep. Taught it for many years.

[lynne]

27. What rich are you talking about?

And what's with all the "rich" hate around here? Especially on Christmas Eve.

Well, the rich sure pay more in taxes than I do just based on their assets and income. There are quite a few "rich" that we hear about that do really good things with their money - Bill Gates and Oprah just off the top of my head. The media has had several stories about large checks found in Salvation Army kettles and there was a story today about a gold nugget found in one kettle. I'm sure there are other cases where the rich serve society that we don't hear about.

It doesn't seem to be about greed for all the rich. I'm not one of them but I don't have animosity towards those that help the less fortunate and I am not about to attack a segment of society based on their either their wealth or lack of it.

[TheKentuckian]

34. The discussion has been light on hatred of prosperity and heavy on acknowledging avarice.

Being rich and possessing a form of greed with a black hole in it's belly are very different things.

[MichiganVote]

37. Cue me in when one of them is serving the homeless a meal tomorrow.

For a wealthy person, a cheque is about the easiest thing in the world to write.

[Foo Fighter]

56. [phone]. n/t

[WinkyDink]

46. Oooh, checks in SALVATION ARMY kettles! AMERICA should have no need for the SA!

BILLIONAIRES should not be allowed to BE billionaires when a HUGE percentage of our children are poor! Such private wealth is unconscionablen its vastness.

Oh, yes; let us praise Dickensian charity.

(P.S. Studies have shown time and again that it is people without much money who give the most; you know, people who take The Widow's Mite parable to heart. Let me know when Gates and Oprah get to that point.)

[jtrockville]

76. Have you ever seen a rich person's tax return?

I have. Many pay zero taxes despite their 7 digit income.

[Kurovski]

38. To buy and sell your ass.

[tblue37]

39. In the movie _Superman III_, when the Richie Pryor character

asks the villain, played by Robert Vaughn, why he needed to commit crime to gain even more wealth, when he already had so much more than he could ever use, the villain says, "It is not enough that I win. Everyone else must lose."

[socialist_n_TN]

91. And THAT in a nutshell IS capitalism...........

The ultimate goal of a capitalist is to win at all costs and everyone else (even other capitalists) to lose.

[applegrove]

40. The USA is a mature economy and will not be growing as fast a china, India, Brazil.

The greater wealth will be created there. The rich want money to invest abroad so they can become the world uberrich overloard class. Soon, the price of oil will be so high that traditional business, based on cheap oil for the last 100 years, will fall apart. So they want to survive with their habit (being rich) intact... same as the drug addict who robs your house. It is nothing personal when they try and stop environmental regulations you see. It only becomes personal when you tax them or regulate them or whatnot. Then they take it personally and attack you and your middle class world.

[jotsy]

44. This guy has an answer.

And it ain't pretty!

<http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=317&Itemid=317&jumival=Michael+Hudson&search=search>

Did link to this in another thread today, but it seems to answer what you asked.

[McCamy Taylor]

53. They are afraid. They think wealth will buy them security, but all it does is increase

their fear, because now they have to worry about losing their wealth, too.

Part of their fear stems from a terrible self loathing. They despise themselves and are secretly convinced that everyone else hates them too. Money is supposed to buy them love and self respect.

[mainer]

77. They are indeed afraid -- but of poverty and starvation

Many are driven by worries about being poor. That's why so many retain their thrifty ways even though they don't need to. Witness Warren Buffett who has lived in the same house for decades, or Sam Walton who drove the same old car for decades.

Funny thing is, if there were socialized health care and a safety net for all, I bet a lot of these people would feel a lot less driven to get rich.

[Hippo_Tron]

55. Hypothetical question

Do you have a set amount of money that if you were ever able to acquire it, you would never covet additional money again? If so, what is the specific dollar amount?

Human beings rich, poor, and everything in between tend to covet more than they already have believing that it will bring them more happiness. And oftentimes they are right, money will bring them more happiness. Some people also decide at a certain point that money isn't going to bring them more happiness and they become happy with what they have. Some of these people decide this when they have acquired a great fortune others decide it when they have a modest living. Others spend their entire lives trying to acquire more.

Another thing to consider is that somebody living in third world poverty might look at the vast majority of Americans and wonder how they could be so greedy. Most Americans have what would seem to have an abundance of wealth to these people, just as you see an abundance of wealth when you look at the rich.

I'm not saying we don't need to tax the rich more. The fact is that we need to tax them more because they're the ones with the money. But I don't think that many rich peoples' desire to pay less in taxes stems from a lack of altruism in the upper class. I think it's mostly human nature.

Remember too that lots of middle class people want to pay less in taxes and don't want to help those less fortunate than themselves. That's really the essence of the tea-bagger movement.

[socialist_n_TN]

92. Personally, I'm at the point that if I have what I need.........

I don't even want much more. And RIGHT NOW, I have what I need. I have food, warm clothing, shelter and a few extra bucks to buy an occasional small luxury. I'm almost 60 and don't really have much in the way of private savings (my wife has a LITTLE), so retirement, if it ever happens, will have to be CAREFULLY managed, but I can do that. Then I die.

That's why I fight for these general welfare things that should make EVERYBODY'S life easier. Medicare for All, a decent government pension that takes care of NEEDS, roads for travel, schools for the future. You know, socialism. :)

[ThomThom]

57. separation

they don't want to be anywhere near working people

[KharmaTrain]

59. Define Rich...

Quite a broad brush being thrown around here...as if there's some kind of "rich" society that lives or operates separate than the rest of us. That's very misleading. Yes, there are those who are extremely selfish...all they care about is themselves and their possession...always has been, always will be. Even in a so-called egalitarian society there would never be total equality as there will be those who will always seek advantage against others.

Firstly, what is rich? Generally that definition is more money than the next person has...but what's the dollar amount? Income of over 250k a year? Assets of 1 million? How about people like the late Ted Kennedy (and many of the third generation Kennedys...surely they have substantial assets)...are they the selfish rich? Or how about a Michael Moore? I'll bet his earnings and royalties are quite substantial is he "rich"?

I know of some very wealthy people who earned their station in life...worked hard and saved. I also know some "poor" people who are just as selfish and arrogant as the so-called "rich"...willing to take from someone in need for their own.

It's more a mindset...as many of those who supported the tax cuts for the rich weren't...maybe they think they will be some day or there are those who think that if you have money you must know something. Whatever the case, this is more about the mindset of the country...the selfish nature that has swept across over the past 30 years. It's the fall-out of the "me" generations that want all sorts of things from society and the government...many feel entitled...yet are willing to do nothing to pull together in tough times.

[TransitJohn]

61. People with a fuckoad of money. n/t

n/t

[hobbit709]

62. Those that never have to worry about the things us mundanes do.

[B Calm]

64. Someone who never ever flies coach. . .

[KharmaTrain]

65. Interesting...

So lets say a person has a job where they are required to travel and the company pops for the first class ticket even though the person only earns $40gs a year is considered rich?

Just trying to get a definition here.

[B Calm]

66. Good point. Maybe it should be changed to someone who never

flies in commercial jets. . But then you would just find another excuse like this person is only making 30gs or 40gs a year and flying around in company jets. But you and I both know if this person is such a valuable employee and the company is flying then around in first class seats or in private jets, this person is making a great deal more money than you propose.

[KharmaTrain]

68. Just Going For Definitions Here

I see the term "rich" thrown around and am honestly trying to see what that means. I know of a person who travels and gladly takes any private flights or first class he can and earns no more than 40k. He's also single...so that 40k is a lot different than if that money had to go support a family...and then there's where the person lives...the same home in New Jersey isn't the same as it is in Texas or North Dakota.

Not excuses here...attempts at trying to get a better ideas as to whom is "rich". I do know some filthy rich people who fit the definition commonly thrown around about being arrogant and selfish. But I also know of those who contribute a large amount to help others. Recently a home for the mentally disabled I help support hit a major fianacial crisis...thanks to cuts in taxes (income and sales/property) the amount the center got from the state and federal was greatly cut. It was private individuals who stepped up to cover the shortfall. Some of those checks were in the high five figure range.

My point is to try to pinpoint the areas and the individuals who are taking advantage of those who don't...the corporations who gladly offshore and outsource yet expect those who they let go to still remain consumers. Or those in our government who are so bought and sold to these interests that this is all that matters...their own careers over the best interests of their constituents or the country.

I understand the anger and frustrations so many have here. Been on the outside myself having to deal with too much month at the end of a hard worked paycheck. If there is to be social justice is has to be made in sharp focus so those who are currently duped and misled see it clearer. Hard to do that with broad brushes.

Cheers...

[mainer]

75. I know some really rich who always fly coach

because that's how they got rich. And they can't bear to pay business class tickets.

[B Calm]

63. I'm sure it's all about power over the working class. The working class

is starting to get hungry, and I expect to see interesting days ahead.

EAT THE RICH!

[Cal33]

69. Greed is only one of the symptoms of the Anti-Social Personality Disorder called

"Sociopathy" or "Psychopathy." This is often the type of personality
found in criminals. Just imagine Al Capone in a high position -- whether
in a corporation or government position. They are doing what he would
have done. They are better educated, of course, and perhaps more
sophisticated, but at heart they are still Al Capones.

And they can't help being what they are. They are driven to do what they
do. Nor can they change. This is where Obama is wrong about "bipartisanship."
Would you choose to have Al Capone for a business partner? It's suicide!
In order to understand how to deal with them, Obama needs to consult with
expert mental health professionals. Sociopaths don't think and don't feel
in the way most of the people do.

Yes, and some of us even vote for them to rob us of every red cent we own.

[rucky]

70. They know our resources are limited.

And they're storing up for the winter of our economy.

And wealth can make many people paranoid assholes.

[DailyGrind51]

71. Following the total collapse, "they" will be the sole survivors!

[Cal33]

72. That's their hope, yes. But, most of them will also fall. After

total collapse, there won't be enough knowledgeable people around
(the middle-class) to continue doing the work that's producing the
materials and services that's making the rich people rich.

[mainer]

74. Sometimes they just do what they love, and are surprised they're rich

That's what happened to a lot of people I know. Writers, musicians, actors -- they did what they loved, and the world loved their work, and suddenly they're rewarded for it. They didn't pursue riches; they pursued their art.

Yes, it happens.

[grahamhgreen]

78. It is a disease, like morbid obesity, and these people need help to shed their excess. NT

[L0oniX]

80. Competition mega yacht racing.

[bemildred]

81. "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture.

The object of power is power." ~ George Orwell 1984

Money is just an instrument to achieve other ends.

[Jackpine Radical]

82. What, exactly, is a cancer cell trying to accomplish

by replicating and spreading throughout the body regardless of the damage it's doing to the host organism. and eventually killing the host?

To me, those seem to be just about the same question.

[Overseas]

83. We made Corporate Quarterly Profits more important than anything else in our country.

They have given people something to hide behind-- Gosh, you know, I would really like to help US workers, but this is a corporation and we've got to serve our shareholders by keeping production costs as low as possible. Sorry about the death of your towns and cities. Compassion is nice but our duty to make profits for our shareholders is absolute.

Those Republican campaign signs, "Country First," were lies in many ways, not least of which is that they support weakening government so that our policies become "Corporation First," even if those corporations are multinationals, not even paying US taxes.

The rich are just reaping the rewards of the cruel false dogma that "the private sector can do better" or Supply-Side Economics -- keep cutting taxes for corporations and the richest people and the benefits will Trickle Down to everyone. We waited for 30 years and here is what happened. http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#real-average-earnings-have-not-increased-in-50-years-6

When it was clear that our economy had become as distorted in favor of the super wealthy as it was in the 1920's,
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#the-gap-between-the-top-1-and-everyone-else-hasnt-been-this-bad-since-the-roaring-twenties-1

and the Bush Crash had made things even worse, many of us thought that finally, with a pragmatic, practical, compassionate former community organizer president, we would return to Democratic Demand-Side Economics, and put millions to work rebuilding the infrastructure that Modern Republicans had allowed to decay to finance the Bush Wars.

But instead we heard that we needed to compromise with the party that crashed our economy, and even with millions suffering we wouldn't get Medicare for All, we wouldn't even get a public option to control insurance costs which were zooming upward and bankrupting our people already being evicted from their homes from being suckered into fraudulent mortgages that were repackaged and swapped around the globe.

We didn't have Obama For America using the hundreds of thousands of voters they had gathered in 2008 to push our Democratic legislators to do what we know works best for the most of us, and our nation's long-term economic health. Apparently, they allowed OFA to be absorbed into the DNC, which had been taken away from Howard Dean (who recognized and told the truth about the major Republican lies "we are fiscally responsible" and "we are strong on defense") and returned to the (already old-fashioned in the 90's) "New Democrat" dogma of going along with Supply-Side economic policies so that Democrats could chalk up some "wins" and get larger corporate campaign contributions. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/no-we-cant-20100202?page=1

Those corporate campaign donations are very powerful, especially after Democrats were unable to prohibit right wing judicial activists from being appointed to our supreme court. My Democrats allowed another Republican lie, that they "oppose judicial activism," to only be applied to liberal nominees, not to consistently pro-corporate right wingers like Scalia, Thomas, Roberts and Alito. And we got some Super Change, the unlimited secret campaign spending allowed to corporations, including multinationals.

I still hope that our government can be wrenched away from the Supply-Side Quarterly-Profits-Above-All ideologues, but my Democrats let them win on so many issues so far-- getting Some Change we are definitely celebrating, but keeping distorted tax rates in place and letting in the Social Security tax cut (which Democrats were convinced to raise in the first place years ago to ensure the solvency of social security to handle Baby Boomer retirement) even as the "Deficit Commission" wants to talk about cutting our social safety nets which are critically necessary after 30 years of Supply Side economics. How sad that they will not be focusing instead on the war profiteering which has run rampant over the past decade with far too much privatization of military services. When we used to do regular military services like electrical engineering and plumbing and cooking in house, our tax dollars did double-duty, they served as job training programs too. Our soldiers then had broadly marketable skills when they left military service. We traded that in for Private-Sector-Can-Do-Better moldy food and soldiers electrocuted in their showers.

[Overseas]

87. Here's Mario Cuomo's 1984 speech about the Reaganite "Shining City on the Hill"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgIMIEXkcz8&feature=related

[Initech]

88. I think they're using the underpants gnomes theory:

Step 1: Redistribute wealth (back to us)

Step 2: ???

Step 3: Profit!

[Cleita]

90. Keeping the rest of us with hat in hand begging. n/t

[Zanzobar]

96. The poor are trying to get richer too.

What are they trying to accomplish?

My guess is they want to improve their lot, just like the rich.