What happens if Obama loses in 2012?

[jacquelope]

You don't have to tell me how much Obama has failed to stand up for Democratic ideals. I've just about given up on his ability to summon a pair.

My question is what happens if liberals stay home in 2012 like they did in 2010?

What will our chances be of saving half a GENERATION of children from apocalyptic education cuts, welfare cuts and school meal cuts? How will we stop the spread of these anti-union bills? How will we stop other states from (practically speaking) deposing their elected officials and pulling a Robocop OCP on various cities in America?


Once again, I know we're pissed off at Obama. Terminally pissed. But let's get some straight answers on what happens if we act on that. Think long and hard. Do we want another 4-8 years of total Republican dominance, this time salted with Tea Party madness?

If we don't support President Obama what are our odds of getting Hillary Clinton in his place, or a truly liberal Democrat? Really, what are our odds?

Edited to add: Come on, people, WHAT IS OUR OPTION C? I want to know.

[GatesofPunk]

1. What happens?

Germany: 1933 to 1945.

[undeterred]

4. Give me a break.

[GatesofPunk]

38. It's basically true.

Republicans preach nationalism, they couldn't care less about human rights, we have INSANE defense spending under Republicans, they want to turn the US into a theocracy, they are corporate whores, they favor corporate interests, they want to bomb anything that even looks different, they have absolutely zero respect for constitutional law, and they want to eliminate unions.

[KillCapitalism]

106. I don't think that's what they want.

Germany at least was, or became an affluent country. Most people shared in the wealth & massive poverty was the exception rather than the norm. I can tell you what they do want...they'd like to turn us into modern day Sierra Leone, Haiti, or Bangladesh. Affluence for maybe 3% of the population and dire poverty for the other 97% is what they want.

[truebrit71]

120. Germany was almost bankrupted by the terms of the armistice deal from WWI. They were NOT affluent..

..which is what allowed a nasty little Austrian turd to stir up such a shit-storm..

As to what would happen under President Huckabee, I don't know, but I won't be here to find out either...

[adigal]

135. Me neither...I will move to Canada

and take my kids and my dogs with me.

Which is why I will vote for Obama. But not one penny, I draw the line at that. Let his corporate masters give him money.

[jacquelope]

5. That's what I was thinking..

Glad to see someone realizes this.

[1monster]

51. The way things are going it will be like that even if Obama wins.

[GatesofPunk]

56. Unfortunately...

You are probably right.

[JTFrog]

90. What a load of bullshit. n/t

[1monster]

132. Whatever you want to believe. I've watched this country move so far to

the right that I would not recognize this country as the country I grew up in if I'd done a Rip Van Winkle. And a big lot of that movement to the right has happened in the last two years with Obama cheerleading most of it. Much of what Obama has endorsed would have been and was condemned loudly on DU if it were Bush doing it. Obama has done the same thing and way too many DU members have given him a pass.

Obama himself said we should hold his feet to the fire. Have you?

[JTFrog]

145. See reply 112.

This new DU just keeps on giving.

[1monster]

147. New?!? I've been here as a member since 2002 and was reading it from March 2001.

I'm not new here. I was here four or five years before you.

[JTFrog]

154. Did you learn to read four or five years before me?

No one called YOU new.

But have no doubts, this is the new DU. Where new records are made everyday. :shrug:

[AlinPA]

65. That's possible.

[NeedleCast]

112. Wow, Godwins Law applied on response #1

New record?

[Cali_Democrat]

121. LOL

Probably.

[DutchLiberal]

141. Fascism has already reached the US, under Bush and continued by Obama...

Guantanamo Bay, indefinite detention, torture, extraordinary rendition, signing statements, Citizens United etc.

Fascism has already arrived and Obama is continuing it.

[treestar]

2. You'll be living with a Republican President

That is what will happen.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[meow mix]

93. we have one now... complete with DEA thugs busting mmj providers

20 shops all over the state, 1000s with thier meds stolen away.

[treestar]

124. Sorry, that's too silly even to respond to

Remember the last Republican President?

[Autumn]

3. If Obama is running against a republican,

and we don't vote,the pukes win. That's not good. Hillary won't run.

[Riley18]

6. The odds are stacked against us. Somehow I don't think

Obama intends a second term. The way he has acted seems strange to me. He does not seem to give a damn one way or the other. If he does not have a primary challenger who support the working people, then we will have a Republican president.

[amandabeech]

129. I agree. He just doesn't seem to want the job.

As far as I can tell, he has four advisors with whom he consults and they sit around thinking about winning the next election, as if Obama seems to want the job. I think that he just likes jetting about making speeches. Maybe he simply does not have what it takes psychologically to be president.

VP Biden and Sec. Clinton seem to want to want to get things going, but Obama just seems so completely out of touch.

At this point, I'd rather that Obama just resign and leave it to Biden & Clinton if he doesn't want to do the job.

[adigal]

136. I agree with this, I think Biden and Clinton should just do the job

Let Obama go to a nice think tank, where he can ponder being a liberal.

I wish Hillary was president, or Michelle Obama was president. I heard some of her early speeches and she was fabulous!!

[amandabeech]

140. Let Obama make speaches and travel and let someone else run things.

I think that it is the best we can hope for, and I suspect that people much more powerful than this aging boomer have made just that decision.

He may end up being a figurehead, nothing more.

That's usually what happens when the person of the top abdicates his or her responsbilities.

Neither Obama nor Hillary were my faves in 2008, but I think that Hillary has guts. So does Biden.

I think that Kerry should be in the mix as well.

Maybe Anonymous will be able to take out Geithner like it wants to take out Bernanke. That would be a big improvement.

[DutchLiberal]

143. Great... more right-wing corporatists!

[amandabeech]

150. The Dem party is full of them.

I'd have Sanders running things if I could, but we're stuck with the current team and thing all around the nation and the world are going from bad to worse quite quickly.

I just want someone in charge who is not afraid to run things. Obama just does not seem to have the right personality and frame of mind.

[Mojeoux]

149. Obama has had 400 times as many death threats than any POTUS EVER!!!!!

The Secret Service reported this last year.

I think the poor man may be scared out of his mind!!!!!!!

[Cleita]

7. Hillary? Only if you want more DLC corporatism.

The fact is Obama will be the candidate and we will vote for him because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

[adigal]

139. I doubt Hillary would have signed tax cut for rich

She would not have allowed the republicans to manuever her into a corner with the unemployment benefits, the way Obama did. Say what you want about Hillary, and she is a DLC corporate gal, but she knows the republicans are evil, and to not trust them or count on them. They crucified her husband, and she wouldn't trust them one inch.

[onehandle]

8. Highly unlikely that he will lose. Especially with the sleeping tiger of Unions awakened.

Hillary said just today, no Presidential anything after 2012.

No serious candidate will challenge Obama in the primary.

[jacquelope]

12. Obama is doing everything in his power to alienate the unions now.

What I want to know is... why?

I wonder sometimes if Obama has a Keeper put on him, you know, like Emperor Mollari in Babylon 5. :P

[onehandle]

41. LOL!

Maybe he needs to drink more.

[Diclotican]

156. onehandle

onehandle

Good one.. A good reference to the current troubles the US president have today... Even tho the current President dosen't have a "keeper" in the way Lando had it in B5, he might have some form of a "keeper" in the way he are given advice from peopole..

And that is sad, as I hoped for a different politic under Obama than under GWB, who I still belive was the rock bottom when it came to US presidents..

Diclotican

[Riley18]

16. I do not see why unions will vote for Obama. What has he

done for us? I am a union member and Ed says it totally right. If Obama does not come out and "walk" with us, he is not getting my vote. This coup that has been going on with these lousy governors is against the working people. We need a real leader and there is not a leader in the White House right now.

[onehandle]

31. I agree. He's not being strong on this... or most anything.

But you know that unions will pull for him come 2012.

[Tx4obama]

9. What if Obama says 'take this job and shove it'. We'd be in deep shit then! n/t

[amandabeech]

130. I think that Biden is perfectly capable of doing a decent job,

together with Clinton and some of the senate leaders. Biden would at least get us out of Afghanistan and that to me would be progress.

If Obama doesn't want the job and doesn't want to do it, he should resign, because the problems are far too serious now for the country to be left adrift, leaderless.

[RandomThoughts]

10. The best way to avoid the robocop scenerio.

Is showing the flaws in that system.



Robocop - Only a Glitch scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrXfh4hENKs

:D

Note the metaphor in that film, is once again, about the difference between a machine, and someone that has heart and feeling, and human thought.

Think of the 'cop' part as any part of anything that is power. Then the comparison between the Cop built as machine, and the Cop that is part human with thought and feeling.

[ProSense]

11. I love these arguments

"Once again, I know we're pissed off at Obama. Terminally pissed."

"If we don't support President Obama what are our odds of getting Hillary Clinton in his place, or a truly liberal Democrat?"

:rofl:

[madinmaryland]

17. ...

Sounds like the Primary Wars are being dragged up again.

:think:

[jacquelope]

28. No, I want some real answers here. What is Option C?

Obama's lost it. The Republicans are a bunch of rabid nutballs.

What alternatives do we have? I want to know.

[madinmaryland]

39. There is no Option C. Any primary challenge to the President will split

the party and guarantee a Repuke victory and another Great Depression.

A quick look at history will tell you that an incumbent POTUS who is challenged is going to lose.

[grahamhgreen]

73. A quck look at history said obama would lose, his challenger may well win!

[madinmaryland]

75. Explain. Thanks.

[grahamhgreen]

83. Just because Presidents who face a primary challenge have lost in the past, does not mean

it must happen again.

Or that the challenger might not win.

Most predicted Obama could not win, yet with progressive support, he did.

[SOS]

109. A primary challenge worked in 1884

Chester Alan Arthur lost the Republican nomination to James Blaine.
The Republicans were fractured and lost to Democrat Grover Cleveland in the general.

Every primary challenge for the past 127 years has failed.

The pattern is similar whether Arthur/Blaine or Carter/Kennedy.
The incumbent party is split and goes on to lose the general.

[grahamhgreen]

117. Patterns can be broken. It's an indicator, not an absolute.

[BobbyBoring]

114. At great peril

I disagree. There are more registered independents than there are Ds and Rs. people are finally starting to see the fallacy of the 2 party system. The right and left have a lot in common. IF the right candidate were to run in 2012, they might have a chance

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madinmaryland]

79. Well, what concerns me about a challenger to Obama...

is that would provide a division within the party. History has shown that a challenger to an incumbent president pretty much dooms their chances.

Question for you. Most of the major so-called candidates have said they will not run, so excluding those candidates who do think would be a good alternative?

TIA!

[Rabblevox]

13. he's in for another 4. No matter what. and the rich will keep getting richer. /nt

[madinmaryland]

14. If he loses, then no Democrat would win. What happens? --> Great Depression #2. nt

[Blue-Jay]

15. That's some A+ concern right there.

10 points to Hufflepuff.

(HA! The spell-check wanted to change Hufflepuff to "Bufflehead"! WTF?!)

[tularetom]

18. I doubt that he will lose but if he does

The country will go even further down the shitter, but Obama won't care.

His Wall St buds will see that he is rewarded with a 7 figure salary at some investment bank and he will spend his declining years playing golf with daddy bush and clinton.

[1monster]

54. That is so not fair to Clinton. He has been working very hard since his White House

days expired. And he has been doing "good works."

[Armstead]

This has been said in every election for 30 years

At some point we have to believe that it is possible for Democrats to actually Do Better by Doing Better.

By that I mean it it is not mutually exclusive to push for the Democratic leadership and politicians to actually stand up for populist liberal and progressive values, and use that as a weapon in the campaigns to win.

This notion that we have to accept cold stale pudding every single election because "the country isn't ready for a liberal" is poppycock (in my opinion).

[jacquelope]

22. Okay so what is our Option C?

And what are our odds of achieving Option C?

[Armstead]

30. I said it in my post

Push for and support a move towards becoming a party of fighting liberalism -- and use that as a weapon against the GOP.

Show voters that the Democratic Party will stand upo for the interests of the majority and tame the Corporate oligarchy, and mean it by following it up by action.

Sort of like Obama was like in 08, when he was at his best in courting and inspiring the base. And like the message Al Gore gave in his stirring nomination acceptance speech in 2000 (before his campaign went back to mushy centrism.)

[jacquelope]

33. And what are our odds of success? n/t

.

[Armstead]

48. If I could guarantee that, I'd be making big bucks as a sage....But..

I would say at least equal to and perhaps better than if the Democrats run another V-Chip/School Uniforms substanceless centrist campaign.

If you want to reach the "swing voters" then show them WHY it matters that Democrats beat Republicans beyond the frame of partisanship and esoteric ideology.

In my opinion if the Democrats followed the model of it own

[Joe the Revelator]

19. See: 2000-2008....only doubly worse because the tea party will have a louder voice

[MannyGoldstein]

20. Liberals didn't stay home in 2010

We lost the independents. Their lives didn't improve as the Democrats said they would, so they decided to try an alternative.

[jacquelope]

25. Uhm....

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/11/democrats_lost_big_because_you.html

As far as I recall, younger voters tend to vote liberal. They stayed home in 2010.

[MannyGoldstein]

For example, see...

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=12003775

[jacquelope]

53. And if all the young voters who turned out in 2008 had turned out in 2010...? n/t

.

[MannyGoldstein]

60. My understanding is that it would not have mattered

But I could be wrong.

[jacquelope]

68. It would probably have mattered in a number of close races. n/t

.

[Quixote1818]

21. Scott Walker on steroids probably.

:puke:

[Motown_Johnny]

23. The odds are exactly zero. It is not possible to primary the president and

win both the primary and the general election.

Any primary contender would need to attack the President from the left. If he/she pulled off the miracle of winning a primary against this popular a president, they would be positioned so far left that they would lose most every state in the general.

The odds of someone more liberal than Obama being President in 2013 is exactly zero.

[ecstatic]

24. If the tea party gets in, the left has no right to complain

No matter how bad things get--no matter how many wars are started, or unions busted. Well, I'm sure people will complain, but they'll have zero credibility since they brought the mess upon themselves.

[jacquelope]

37. After that we might as well be called the Corporate States of America.

Replace voters with shareholders and call it a wrap for human civilization as we know it.

[1monster]

62. No, I think they'll have a bidding war on which corporation gets to have its name

on the country. The AT&T States of America! Then every five or ten years there will be another opportunity to bid again for the chance to have your corporate name on the country. The Exxon Mobile States of America... The Dow Chemical States of American... The Koch Brothers States a America.... and so on and so on and on.

[DutchLiberal]

144. 'The left' has not been represented for the last 30 years...

How do they not have a right to complain?

[HEyHEY]

27. The USA finally learns its lesson

[rug]

29. Millionaire tax cuts will be extended. War will escalate in Afghanistan. Gitmo stays open.

And other things.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

105. Ouch!

[Bluebear]

32. What is Obama doing to stave off apocalyptic education cuts and support Unions?

:(

[MrTriumph]

34. Obama cannot win the general election. So what are we waiting for?

We need to find a real Democrat to replace Pres. Obama in the primaries.

[Ikonoklast]

71. He already has won one general.

Name the candidate that will beat him.


You can't. There isn't one.



Threads like this are total speculation based on vapor, and do nothing except get those suffering from ODS all worked up.

[MrTriumph]

102. Name someone who cannot beat Obama.

x

[MadHound]

36. Another question, what happens if he wins?

The same thing as what happens if he loses, we continue off that cliff, albeit at a slower pace.

[defendandprotect]

46. True -- and what about the next two years of Obama -- !!

[defendandprotect]

40. This is more FEAR based thinking -- and we have to get past it -- really!!

I'm sure it has entered many of our minds just how far down this right wing

road we would have to go before there would be a turn around --

Nader talked about it's perhaps being a positive if we actually reached that point if that

was what it would take to wake us up --

Meanwhile, over these decades many Americans have been suffering -- and the corruption of our

government has indeed brought suffering to other nations and peoples, as well.

We seem to be at a turning point -- and fingers crossed that we don't have to go any further

into right wing insanity!


We have to pick up what's left of the Democratic Party and find new leadership --

someone like Sen. Bernie Sanders who is a better dem than many Democrats!

We need two strong anti-war candidates and they should come from outside of the party --

not anyone pre-owned and pre-bribed by corporations --


We also have to dump the Koch Bros' DLC corporate wing of the party!!



The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

If you knew this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know it, pass it along!


:)

[ecstatic]

43. fear based or history based? nt

[defendandprotect]

49. Do you want to explain where you see "history" in this?

The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

If you knew this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know it, pass it along!


:)

[Jmaxfie1]

52. I agree, we'd get past it. It might even strengthen the Democratic Party.

I get annoyed when anyone, Tea Bagger or Progressive, acts like we are moments away from 1933 Berlin or 1917 Russia. I honestly have a lot more faith in the American people than that.

[ecstatic]

55. Actually it wouldn't. It would tear the Dem party apart

You know, the whole race relations thing and all.

[jacquelope]

59. Because Berlin never happened?

What makes you think you'll even be allowed to vote after that?
Look what the Republicans are doing to stop voters now. They're trying to limit student voting rights and minority voting rights, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylNv61hzHdM

The Conservative Supreme Court will make up ways to back them on these efforts. You know darned well those electronic voting machines are rigged. Germany and other countries have outlawed them for that reason, but we keep using them. Oh and we've got all that gerrymandering that's coming up, too. Oh and say byebye to citizenship for American kids born to foreigners.

The GOP will lock us in for at LEAST 4-8 years, long enough to seal us forever in a plutocracy... or worse. I sincerely DOUBT there'll be much of an America left after we manage to kick them out of office... IF we ever do.

[BzaDem]

81. If fear is justified, wouldn't it be a GOOD thing?

There is a reason humans evolved with fear. It seems that you are saying fear is somehow a bad thing, even when it is absolutely justified based on facts and reality.

[JTFrog]

91. Fuck Nader. n/t

[Better Believe It]

42. Huge demonstrations and protests involving millions and perhaps the

formation of a new major working class based radical political party because the Democratic Party can't win and when they do win they can't accomplish much.

That's one possible scenario.

[jacquelope]

44. Then the Republicans call in the military.

They'll find a reason to break up massive liberal demonstrations. If not, they'll make one up. I wouldn't be surprised if they pissed on Posse Comitatus.

[Skink]

45. There is no way the republicans will let Obama lose.

things are going great for them now and are sure to get better. Much easier to let a dem privitize stuff like social security.

[NOLALady]

47. We can always recall the 2012 President

if he/she is a teabagger. That's what we will probably get if the liberals stay home.

[1monster]

50. I'd be fine with that if he lost in the primary with someone like Dennis Kucinch...

And Kucinich won in the general election in November.

In fact, I'd me damned pleased.

[JTFrog]

92. LOL.

Got to hand it to you for imagination anyway.

:shrug:

[Solomon]

104. LOL And then you'd find out how weak Kucinich would be

up against the machine. You'd be clammering for someone else within two years. Why do democrats complain that republican presidents are trying to be dictators, but when a democrat gets in there, they complain that the president is not dictating. :shrug:

[1monster]

133. He's stood up to the machine before, even to an assassination attempt, which he

escaped by having an ulcer perferate at the perfect moment (if ever there could be a perfect moment for that).

Don't count him out as weak because he isn't tall. A lot a very strong people have not had the physical stature that seems to be perceived as bringing strength.

[Sonicwall]

57. Good. That means the Dems hasn't learned the lessons.

And need to go hard left, and kick out DLC a-holes.

That's the only way to get motivated. Right now all of us are dispirited with Obama in some form or another. Admit it - you're disappointed.

I'm still a Democrat, and I'll work my damndest to get progressives on the ballots.

[WillyT]

58. He Will Have Himself To Thank

:shrug:

[Systematic Chaos]

61. The inevitable.

n/t

[fascisthunter]

64. His Democratic Challenger goes on to defeat the Fascist Candidate(GOP)

[blogslut]

66. What if he wins?

What will you do?

EDIT ADD: Thank you for this helpful thread.

[jacquelope]

67. Push for a truly liberal candidate in 2016. n/t

.

[DeadEyeDyck]

69. to be honest, I think Obama will be around until 2016

The repubs seem to be following the 1996 playbook are have no one to run. The put up a post-menapause fart (Bob Dole) to run against a badly damaged Pres. for some ungodly reason. It looked like political suicide.

But who is in the running now? Romney? most of the tea-party hate him. Palin?-we can only hope. Gingrich?-he is DOA.

They all want Reagan to rise from the grave and if someone dug him up, they would vote for his decaying corpse. But that ain't happening. So Obama takes it hands down.

Once he is the incumbent, then you will see some work get done.

Jus my 2 cents

[Little Star]

148. I agree with you up to the point where you said...

"Once he is the incumbent, then you will see some work get done."

My 2 cents says we will see the exact same "work" (corporate agenda/Republican agenda) that we have seen for the past two years. Only it will be worse cause then he's really got nothin to lose.

He is who he is and there is nothing gonna change that!

ps: you forgot "The Donald" on the Repub side.

:evilgrin:

[IsItJustMe]

70. Instead of 20 new nuclear power plants we will have a 100 new nuclear power plants. We will start

another war or two with a Republican victory. Hate to be a cynic, but we truly have a bunch of unenlightened people leading us in this country. The way I see it, our dimise will just be hastened by a Republican victory, but unless something drastic happens with the people that govern us, it is the worst of two evils at this point.

[grahamhgreen]

72. Endless wars, outsourcing, nuclear power, oil drilling, rendition, gitmo

mandatory crapsurance, cutting taxes for rich, basically, it will be the same.

BUT, people will no longer be blaming it on democratic socialism, progressives, or liberals.

[Marr]

74. Easy! Lay the blame at the feet of the people currently being dismissed as a "meaningless minority".

Then argue repeatedly that if Obama hadn't made such an effort to appease us, he wouldn't have lost. So the party must move rightward and be more committed to ignoring liberals in the future. Because we're meaningless. And to blame.

[valerief]

76. Let's hope we get a primary with another choice. nt

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jacquelope]

82. How about a poll of likely voters? n/t

.

[Youth Uprising]

84. ...

[pa28]

78. All we need is 40 senators.

The Republicans will be paralyzed, powerless and forced to compromise with us.

:sarcasm:

In all seriousness I would not lose too much sleep over the prospect of Obama losing. He's a trusted retainer for the wealthy.

[sabrina 1]

80. The same thing that happened in Wisconsin.

A Republican will win, and then two months later, those who voted for him will see why we didn't. There will be huge protests in DC with citizens taking over the area and the numbers growing each day.

What happened in Wisconsin has basically answered the question for me. 'What if we finally decided not to vote for the 'lesser evil' anymore? what would happen'?

Well, I like what has happened in Wisc. Walker has done the impossible, he has started a Labor Movement, not intentionally of course, but he did. We could not do that no matter how hard we tried.

If a Democrat had won, s/he would have been pressured into doing some of the things Walker plans to do. But the 'Left' would not have participated in the protests even if he had tried to get rid of the unions. They would have been split at the very least, with some arguing 'he had no choice' as always.

So, while initially upset with Walker's win, I am now thrilled he won because without him, how would the people ever have seen what a threat to the working Republicans are?

If Obama loses, but we succeed in electing dozens or more real Progressive Democrats and we win back Congress, it won't matter who is in the WH anyhow.

I think our focus and resources should be directed at Congress.

[JDPriestly]

85. I'm hoping that Obama will simply announce that he is not running in 2012

and that we will get a stronger, more assertive, more sincere, more dedicated candidate.

Obama is a nice guy, but he is just not a fighter.

He does easy stuff, but he has not been able to get anything a little challenging through Congress, not even when he had a large Democratic majority in the House. He is ineffective when it comes to reaching out to the American people and getting Americans to persuade their Congressmen to vote for more liberal ideas. It isn't that Obama can't state a case for liberal legislation. It's that he doesn't do it to the right people at the right time, not to the people who are going to push Congress to support audacious legislation. And if there ever was a time for audacity in D.C. it has been the past two years.

I just hope Obama has the wisdom to see that he needs to let someone else step in.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raine]

88. Agree then we could get a real Democratic fighter

into the race. :thumbsup:

[readmoreoften]

86. The right will push further and the next Dem president will be even more of a coward.

Until Democratic presidents fight back, this trend will continue unabated. I'm not holding my breath.

[JTFrog]

89. Hell will freeze over.

The rest of the OP is just as laughable.

:shrug:

[Scuba]

94. False choice...

If you could have Obama, Palin or Kucinich, who would you choose?

If you could have Obama, Romney or Feingold, who would you choose?


The question isn't "Obama or a Republican?". The question is "Who would make the best president?"

[Pryderi]

95. A repug will get to nominate 2-3 more Justices to the Supreme Court

[rpannier]

97. Great minds

Sadly yours saw this post before me
Scalia and Thomas retire (cuz Thomas does whatever Scalia does).
Kennedy I'd say is 50-50

[Pryderi]

99. What about Ruth Bader Ginsberg?

[rpannier]

100. She's a possibility

If the President is Mitt "The Sh*t" maybe
If they come from wacko brigade -- everyone except for Huntsman she'd probably stay
It depends on her health and the Senate as well.

[OmahaBlueDog]

125. I'm seriously hoping she retires at the end of this Supreme Court session.

..and I'm seriously hoping that she's replaced by Hillary Clinton.

[rpannier]

96. Scalia and Thomas announce they're retiring from the bench nt

[mmonk]

98. We're getting rightward "reform" no matter what. There is no progressive party

or movement. Hillary Clinton is virtually the same as Obama so I don't get people mentioning her unless you don't know the dynamics of what happened to the Democratic Party.

[TBF]

123. Exactly right. We need a labor movement and we need it yesterday. nt

[deacon]

101. I've been one of his staunchest supporters, right now i see him pandering

and posturing and coasting-if he wants his base back he needs to start getting out in front of domestic issues and talking back against the massive layoffs the GOP are after.

[Le Taz Hot]

103. There are more choices than

a) vote blind Party loyalty or b) stay home. I cannot list an option C on this board. My vote is earned, not demanded.

[Cameron27]

107. It took me

61 years to reach that conclusion, and even so, I ended up voting for the Dems anyway last year. The RWers aren't as afraid of the consequences to punish, which is why their base is feared and pandered to by both sides, while the liberal base is openly mocked.

[kath]

142. That's right - the option that must not be mentioned.

I wish there was a "Liberal Underground" - because the "Democrats" no longer stand for the working man and woman. I wonder at what point DU will admit that fact and loosen up on the censorship? The admins do seem to be acknowledging now (at least a bit?) that there are real, legitimate reasons to be VERY disappointed in this President.

[jacquelope]

153. No really, let's hear option C

America needs an option C that has a good chance of succeeding.

[LynneSin]

108. Republicans aren't going to focus on the Presidency in 2012, they'll focus on Congress...

just like they did in 1996.

Better they have a strong control of Congress so that in 2016 they can run a real candidate and have control of all 3 - just like 2000.

Seriously Bob Dole? That was a throwaway candidate for them in 1996 - just like the one they will run in 2012.

[Erose999]

110. Sitting out on Obama is not the same as "not voting". I for one will not vote for him but I will

support Congressional, state, and local progressives in all the other races. In my opinion Obama is just as much an enemy as Mittens or Pawlenty or Bitch Daniels or any other right-leaning centrists likely to recieve the GOP nomination.

Of course there are the wackos like Lewd Gingrich, Sarah Failin', and Huckleberry Hound, but they don't have any support outside the deep South.

[lumberjack_jeff]

111. Americans haven't "had enough" yet.

We still buy the GOP snake oil.

If Obama loses in 2012 it'll be to a Republican. Since they are incapable of doing anything good, and since MUCH good is necessary to correct our course, we'll see a Democrat, and a different D congress in 2016.

I'm becoming convinced that it's the only path forward to progressive reform.

[Poboy]

113. Maybe the Dems will act as opposition? We're screwed either way.

He is a FAILURE.

[TBF]

122. "Screwed either way" - best response in this thread. nt

[tallahasseedem]

115. Then we'll get what we deserve...

and many here on DU will be happier than ever.

[kath]

146. Oh, bullshit.

Don't paint us as bad people for wanting Democrats (or SOME party, dammit) to have a spine and to stand up for working people.

[Safetykitten]

116. If?

[grahamhgreen]

118. +1.

[WinkyDink]

119. We can attack destructive programs with a clear conscience.

[Imagevision]

126. Out of all these responses I'll go with..."we're screwed either way"

[mmonk]

127. I hate to bug you but those things you mentioned aren't being saved now.

[Mister Ed]

128. The Supreme Court gets stacked with young, dedicated Corporatist justices. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

131. Meh. The "not as bad", "lesser of two evils", meme got old a long time ago.

Option "A" is to vote for the most progressive, anti-war, candidate on the ballot.

Option "B" is to write one in if there are no progressive, anti-war candidates on the ballot.

Option "C" is to read a good book on election day.

[dkofos]

134. I guess it depends on whether he looses to a REAL progressive or a REAL republican.

[DutchLiberal]

137. Nothing much. It just means Obama gets traded for another Republican...

Major policies, like indefinite detention, keeping Guantanamo open, letting insurance corporations keep running health care, keeping on the war in Afghanistan etc. will all continue. No major changes.

[Wait Wut]

138. Option C??? WTF.

I’m confused.

Why are there more blogs, posts, threads, whatever on primarying (that’s probably not the correct spelling) our President, how awful our President is and how much Liberals hate our President than...

...how fucking insane, evil, selfish, disgusting and soulless Republicans are? I thought this was a Democratic site?

Good friggin’ grief. Get over it. Our President is NOT going to be primaried. The fool that would consider running against him will be blackballed for life after whatever freak the Republicans finally bribe to run wins the damned White House.

Your Option C is to pray to all that is holy that Pres. Obama DOES get reelected despite the hatchet job people like you perform on him so that you won't have to apologize for 4 years because you friggin' stayed home in some ridiculous "protest".

[Kip Humphrey]

151. Fascism (i.e., corporatism) will win the war 2 years earlier. /nt

[mdmc]

152. the wars will continue

[BlueIris]

155. Personally, I don't feel Obama II would be much different than Obama I.

I don't feel he has much to offer the country now, nor would he with a second chance. So I can't agree that a post-Obama world would be much worse, whether it's with another Democrat or a Republican in the White House.