"It will never happen that way again."

[MadHound]

That's what we here after every nuclear catastrophe. They will have a red tagging system to stop valves from being inappropriately opened. They will improve the human-machine interface to prevent another catastrophe. They will put a containment building around the reactor.

But this is simply closing the barn door after the horse has fled. Man and nature keep coming up with new and interesting ways to create nuclear disasters. This time, a set of reactors, located on the coast, hit by a huge earthquake followed by a tsunami. Next time, an F6 tornado, the list is going to go on and on.

So once a generation we're going to see a major nuclear disaster that causes pain, suffering, destruction and death. This generation, our kids, our grandkids, our great grandkids. This simply isn't sane. The simple fact is that nuclear power simply can't be trusted.

Nor do we need nuclear power, that bipolar thinking of either nukes or fossil fuels is gone now. Green renewables, on a decentralized smart grid can fulfill our energy needs. So why do we, as a country, continue to pursue this madness? Money of course. Centralized power generation makes money for those corporations that are currently in power and in charge. They make massive profits from polluting the planet and killing people. They use their money to buy politicians and lobbyists, lap dogs and yes men to do their bidding.

Hopefully this latest nuclear tragedy motivates people to rise up and put an end to this nuclear madness. Hopefully this latest tragedy will make politicians so nervous about nuclear energy that they won't dare touch that political third rail. Hopefully the corporate powers that be recognize that everybody, themselves included, are downwind when it comes to nuclear power.

Otherwise we're going to see this kind of tragedy continue to strike our kids, grand kids, ad infinitum. Until we've finally beaten our head bloody against that proverbial wall and finally see the truth.

[scarletwoman]

1. Bravo, well said.

Decentralization of energy generation is the key.

sw

[Newest Reality]

2. It looks like, what with Peak Everything and the failure

of globalism in practice, decentralizing things and re-localizing are important concepts in any kind of sustainable future for we, the common folk.

JIT, (just in time) is going to continue to demonstrate to us just how vulnerable it makes us in so many ways. It may be a great profit creator, but its a form of potential suicide, collectively.

[grahamhgreen]

3. K&R let the advocates come forth and volunteer to go into fukushima

[madmax]

4. I live about 4 miles from Shearon Harris Nuke sight

http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/guards-sound-alarm-over-security-at-shearon-harris-nuclear-plant/Content?oid=1196255

Must confess that I've not kept up with Nuclear Energy. We knew about the plant but, had been lulled to think - meh, it's ok. Now I'm officially and sufficiently :scared: We moved here from NJ 3 years ago.

I hope this tragedy in Japan forces our government to get their shit together and start immediately to take measures to make us safe. Ok, right - in my dreams. This is the good 'ol USA USA

[originalpckelly]

5. Those SOBs want to put a new nuke plant here in CO.

Debate was going on tonight. I wonder if they'll stop it, or if the industry has really paid off the people running the show?

[Night Crawler]

6. What we have here is about 6000 deaths and about 10,000

still missing from the quake/tsunami. Baring the unthinkable, how many have died in the nuclear event so far?

Oh, BTW, there are 15 CONFIRMED dead in the bus accident in New York. Maybe we should shut down all public transportation until we have all the answers and can guarantee zero casualties.

[MadHound]

10. Well, of course we don't know that,

We won't know the full death toll for years, until the cancers and birth defects start to show up.

You are trying a failed ploy, comparing short term immediate deaths to a situation that has long lasting ramifications.

[Night Crawler]

15. For perspective, 1.5 million people die every year in

traffic deaths. 50 million are injured. How does that compare to even the worst estimates from Chernobyl?
Maybe a world wide ban on vehicles is in order. No?

[MadHound]

16. Again, you are drawing a false analogy.

Your logic is, well, lacking.

[EstimatedProphet]

27. No

Traffic accidents don't have the potential to completely render an area uninhabitable forever.

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. And THAT is exactly how they explain away the 3 Mile Island disaster.

No one died and no one was hurt. Therefore, everything is peachy keen. What they ALWAYS neglect to quote are the statistics of increased cancers, birth defects and illnesses in people who lived there. It's nothing short of criminal, IMCPO.

[MadHound]

21. Yep, the same way they explain away the NRX disaster,

Not to mention all the little incidents, leaks, etc.

Since there is relatively few immediate deaths, they can simply let time conquer all.

[bvar22]

29. Will you be happy WHEN (not IF) the BIG ONE happens....

...and a major city is irradiated with a million (plus) casualties?

What happened in Japan confirms that it WILL happen,
possibly on the West Coast of the USA.
Only a mater of time.

[DeadEyeDyck]

7. sure glad there wasn't a car wreck

[PufPuf23]

8. When I see a shiny, new, macho 4WD with winch etc. driven by a city boy,

my thought is that there is the capability to get really, really stuck and make a road mess of mud or have huge whoopsy in the snow.

There are many opportunities for distributed and congenerated and more efficient use of energies.

Big industry is in the way of innovation that is transformative.

[Zoeisright]

9. Yep. And nobody knows what the long-term effects are.

Some people are just more prone to cancer than others. Because you can't see, feel, smell, or hear radiation, you don't know how much you've been exposed to.

Just imagine, if we spent that $45 billion Obama has proposed for nuclear on renewable energy? What's wrong with that?

[madmax]

12. I'm with you - let's go solar, wind anything but nuke. nt

[Night Crawler]

14. How about we spend that $45 billion

Obama has proposed for nuclear on preventing earthquakes and tsunamis? They seem much more destructive.

[Arugula Latte]

24. Wow, that was really stupid.

Enjoy your stay here at DU.

[EstimatedProphet]

28. It would appear General Electric has registered a username at DU

[madmax]

11. Woke me up. Wonder how many people

were not really aware of how dangerous nuclear energy can be. This has been a REAL BFD.

Any attempts to build any new reactors will be met with cries of NIMBY.

[upi402]

13. They always say, "nukes are the safest..." Yeah - until they're NOT

Well nobody expected...
There's never been a ...
After an unlikeley series oh human error...

Until they invent "Nuke-Away!" I'm against nuclear power. The waste will be a HUGE issue, especially if some group targets it. Bill Gates better hurry!

[notesdev]

17. "every" nuclear catastrophe?

It's not like this happens all the time. Hold everything to this standard and we're back to hunter-gatherer society.


Shit happens. It's how we deal with it who makes us who they are. Fanning the flames of hysteria is a recipe for a return to the Dark Ages.

I wonder if, when the first train accident occurred, the detractors of rail technology came out and said similar things? When the two space shuttles were destroyed, did that vindicate those who believed we should never have gone into space?


We have a critical energy crisis and present population levels require that the energy keeps flowing. Whatever damage comes of this accident will be trivial compared to the damage that will be done by failing to meet our energy challenges in a forthright manner.

As is the case in the instant situation: of those who die as a result of the events at these nuclear plants, far more will die from exposure to the elements and a lack of power than the worst imaginable outcome for the reactors themselves.

Our population levels cannot be sustained without the energy resources we consume. So unless you got a better answer as to how we get it, you are advocating a holocaust.

[MadHound]

20. Damn, you go to the "holocaust" card both quick and inappropriately.

I'm getting to the point where I'm posting this link so much, I'm thinking about making it my sig line.

<http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/JDEnPolicyPt1.pdf>

"We suggest producing all new energy with WWS by 2030 and replacing pre-existing energy by 2050. Barriers to the plan are primarily social and political, not technological or economic."

Gee, what a novel concept, getting all our energy needs from green renewables. It is doable, so why not do it? Or are you one of those social and/or political barriers?

As far as how many deaths will occur from this major catastrophe, well, that's the thing. Exposure to radiation is the gift that keeps on giving and giving, across time, across generations. Again, why should we risk that when we don't need to.

Nobody, myself included, is advocating pulling the plug on human energy use. What I am advocating is that we stop using energy sources that cause major disasters, that produce toxic waste, that are expensive(and remember, nuclear is now more expensive than wind and solar), especially when we have a much better alternative.

Why do you, yes you, want to keep pursuing this nuclear nightmare when it simply isn't necessary?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[notesdev]

25. LOL

Did you really alert the mods to delete the whole subthread? Orwell would be proud.

[MadHound]

26. No, I very rarely alert on a person,

Nope, just calling a person on their bullshit. You think I'm Orwellian, yet don't recognize the Orwellian trend in yourself, calling me out for "advocating a holocaust":eyes:

You jump to a lot of conclusions. You jump to the conclusion that I don't know what I'm talking about, that I'm advocating a holocaust, and now that I alerted on you. Perhaps you should reconsider that bad habit.

[AllyCat]

30. But when it happens, it is at enormous cost, particularly in human life

We've seen two huge ones now in our lifetimes and I don't know about you, but I expect to have a long way to go, not to mention the future of my children and those of everyone else.

The embodied energy of building these things along with the cost and time, then the danger each and every day of some catastrophe whether human-made, natural, or both together is not acceptable to me and obviously not to a lot of other people except those that make a mint off building these things and extraction industries as a whole. Then we have NEVER solved the problem of what to do with the waste, creating yet another point in the chain where catastrophe can again rear its head.

This is horrible and could happen again AT ANY TIME. Fossil fuel energy is dangerous. Lets move on to something more sustainable and safer. There are so many ideas out there, all of which get dismissed by the PTB.

[daleo]

18. Wars are like that, too

Next time will always be different. Big mistakes are like that.

[defendandprotect]

23. They're making themselves sounds corrupt and idiotic -- GO GREEN!!

[snot]

31. And who pays for the disaster?

Victims and taxpayers.

Some kinds of business cost more than they're worth.