My great niece is gay. I am having a hard time accepting it.

[live love laugh]

She will be 17 Sunday.

I love her to death. She would give you the shirt off her back. She lived with me for a while when I relocated--just me her and the dog. She has soft jaws which I never miss a chance to kiss -- or pinch. I have taught her everything I know about the military, the economy, politics, you name it. She used to laugh at my rants against Boosh but she understood why I hated (hate) him.

About two years ago she came out. I have continued to see her as my little girl but she is getting older. She dresses like a boy. Today she came over and I asked where she had been. She said she had been out walking with her girlfriend. I caught my breath. I love her.

She had violent fights with her mother over coming out. Her mother rejected her and even had her committed to a mental facility for a short time. Her mother and I stopped speaking because of this treatment and we barely manage a few words now.

At school she was suspended recently for some very petty issue that I won't detail. She graduates in June. I told her that the recent problems she is having in school I attribute to her being openly gay. I hugged her, told her that I love her and that she can expect to face more petty issues because of being openly gay even after school ends. She cried.

As much as I have taught her she is now talking about joining the military. I jokingly tell her I would disown her if she joins. She laughed. I think that she wants to escape. I try to tell her about the gruesome rapes of women in the military to change her mind. I don't think she will go.

I had a talk with my best friend of more than thirty years (since sixth grade) about her. My friend who is religious thinks that gay is a choice and that this is a fad. My friend wishes my niece would knock it off. I defended my baby telling my friend that the Jesus and the bible said that love is the most important thing mankind can do--and that whatever love people are blessed with in their lives no matter from whom--is what Jesus wanted. I stated that I don't like that she is not the cute, feminine girl that I hoped she would grow up to be but I know that she is not making a choice that would cause her so much hardship.

I do hair kind of as a hobby for a few friends. One friend of many years was over and my niece was there. I could see my friend looking at her curiously. We never discussed her. But I felt bad that my friend "knows".

I have distant family that I don't see often. I don't want them to know either. Last summer my sister remarried. My baby dressed up really girly to be in the wedding so that visting distant relatives did not know.

I am rambling. I fear for her safety. I think that girls who act like boys get treated like boys and boys get treated roughly. She is not rough.

She won't go to prom same sex dates at prom are not allowed at her school.

I took her to work with me many times. She asked recently and I don't want her to go.

I have grappled with gay rights issues from afar and now the chickens have come home to roost. I love my baby. She knows that I love her. I just still have some mixed feelings and I am not 100% accepting. I wish that it did not matter. But it's not so much that it matters to me as that it matters to so many others who are far less accepting than me--and I feel ashamed because I know how ignorant people are (not that I'm not ignorant somewhat myself.)

Just sharing and clarifying...

[sudopod]

1. *hug* nt

[live love laugh]

6. Thank you. nt

[cynatnite]

2. You love her and you love who she loves...

That's the best you can do. Be there for her and support her in every way. We've got a neice that's gay and she's been with her partner for years now. We love 'em dearly and can't imagine our lives without them.

[live love laugh]

21. "...love her and you love who she loves..." Got it. I think I can do that. nt

[Matariki]

3. She'll be fine and so will you.

Maybe it would help you to look up your local chapter of PFLAG? Your niece is lucky to have you ;-)

[live love laugh]

7. Thanks. Never heard of PFLAG but I will definitely look into it. nt

[Matariki]

98. Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays.

http://community.pflag.org/Page.aspx?pid=194&srcid=-2

I remember on year being moved to tears seeing this group marching in Seattle's Gay Pride parade. The parents of gay children publicly supporting them and accepting them for who they are. Still makes me weepy.

[murielm99]

My daughter is bisexual.

She dated women exclusively for ten years, and was in a six year relationship with a woman. Now she engaged to a nice man who knows her history and is not the least bit threatened by it.

One of the best times I ever had was riding on a float with her and her sister in the Chicago Gay Pride parade. It was for Equality Illinois. Of course I would be involved in a political organization for GLBTs. I can't keep out of politics.

[murielm99]

4. If you have a PFLAG chapter near you, please join.

Other families with gay loved ones can help you. If you are not close, at least subscribe to their newsletter.

[live love laugh]

8. I will do that. Thanks a million. nt

[Ozymanithrax]

5. My daughter is gay.

She, and I, discovered this when she was in high school. The way I look at it, it is her life to live not mine. I love her and support her in whatever she wants to do.

I think the best thing you can do is tell your niece you love her and will support her no matter what. Choosing to live an open gay life isn't going to be easy for her, but it is her life to lead. If she has someone who loves her and supports her no matter what, she will have a better foundation to live life on her terms.

[aquart]

9. So glad I live in New York.

And that my cousin Diane lives in California. Places where gays and lesbians can live normal lives like the normal people they are.

I remember when Diane came out to my mom but my mom didn't know it. There was this phone call with Diane saying she'd like to visit and bring her lover and was that okay? My mom said, "Sure" because that wasn't ever going to be an issue but then asked me if I thought it was funny that she used the word "lover." Which is how I found out my cousin Diane was gay. And told my mom that she was being given a chance to back out or ignore it. My mom called her back, asked her point blank if that's what she was trying to say and then told her the welcome mat was out whenever, wherever, no matter what.

I was on the fence about gay marriage until my friend Dennis was dying. I watched his lover Ruben help dress him for that last trip to the hospital. If those two weren't married, nobody is. And they should have had the right to make it legal.

And when is New York going to live up to its Stonewall heritage and make gay marriage legal????

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Acceptance, and for what she is

and what you are.

a cousin of mine is gay and the most we ever talked about it was, when I asked him to be safe... that was the extent of it.

His husband came to weddings and I am fine with it

[FedUpWithIt All]

11. What a beautifully honest post. It is clear that you love her dearly.

That type of love can mean the entire world.

I agree with those who suggested you find a local group.

:hug:

[Newest Reality]

12. You seem to be able to admit that she is what she is right now.

As far as accepting it goes, that's what is important. Should she be what you wanted her to be or thought she was? Should she be what you think she should? Those are just your thoughts and expectations, ey? They rely on the past and the future of her being this, here and now.

You love her as this. That's what she is with all that comes with it. Your love might be the key. It could allow you to even accept your nonacceptance, because that is what you have and feel right now. Don't let it be a struggle or a problem beyond what you are experiencing right now. Don't add thoughts about thoughts and feelings about feelings to it and it will resolve itself that way.

Best of luck and thanks for sharing your dilemma. I think you can let it be and find some great liberation in that alone. Think of all your own quirks and differences that make you who you are, for better or for worse, and extend it as much as you can to those you love, and maybe even, those who piss you off or hate you.

[live love laugh]

26. "...extend it as much as you can to those you love, and maybe even, those who piss you off..."

I have definitely become more accepting of others because I love someone who is not always accepted.

[Newest Reality]

29. Thank you! That's a potent realization.

There is knowledge and that, my friend leads to the kind of wisdom you are harvesting.

Keep going. It is, after all, not about a thing that is static and changeless, but a continual and dynamic process.

[readmoreoften]

13. She needs support. She is not acting out. She is a masculine person. This is who she is.

It is not a phase. It is terribly difficult to live life as a masculine woman. If you think being out is hard for her, imagine how much harder being closeted was. That means that all the difficulties: the discrimination, the rejection from her family, the violence from classmates--all that is nothing compared to the pain of the closet. It should give you some indication of how impossible the closet actually is. That's the choice. It is no more comfortable for her to go to school in pretty dresses than it is for a boy. She feels ridiculous. It can feel something like a daily sexual assault.

My own partner is a masculine female. I am a lesbian, but not masculine. Gender identity is not the same as sexuality. Your niece is both gay and gender non-typical. My own partner who is the same has been incredibly damaged, not by who she is, but by the lack of support and shaming by family. You need to work on letting go of all this pretty-baby-girl stuff. Don't worry about the prom--that's what you care about, she probably doesn't.

She is her own person. Your feelings of loss are related to your own assumptions. It's not fair to put your assumptions on your niece.

You're going to have to learn how to accept and learn to understand LGBT people, or your going to cause harm and pain to your niece. Luckily the LGBT community is quite used to talkin' folks through it. ;)

[Dappleganger]

Wonderful advice!

[wickerwoman]

24. +1000

Thanks for saying it much better (and nicer) than I was going to.

[live love laugh]

27. Thanks. nt

[SlicerDicer-]

28. Agreed! Thanks for the post :)

I couldn't have written it better myself.

[OneGrassRoot]

57. And I'm so glad the LGBT community is patient and willing to educate...

and enlighten.

:hug:

[lapislzi]

72. Agreed!

I've come a long, long way from my Irish Catholic upbringing. Although I'm straight, I am eternally grateful to all of my gay friends for their patience as I learned, accepted, and loved.

My life is so much richer for having my friends in it.

[krabigirl]

85. This. Hopefully she can move to a more welcoming area as well once she is on her own.

[Xenotime]

100. Thank you for your kind words.

[otohara]

104. Thanks

You helped me understand something I've wondered about.

[Dappleganger]

14. She's lucky to have you...

but at her age she should be allowed to do or be whatever she wants and learn for herself, and just support her and not try to shield her. Life is going to kick her hard, it's better she has loving arms such as yours to run to when it does than to have that happen when you're not around. I would also insist she get self-defense training. As for the family they will find out soon enough, but let it be her decision how to handle it. None of it will ever be nice and neat but that's not how life is. Just keep reinforcing your acceptance of her no matter what.

[live love laugh]

22. Thanks. nt

[SlicerDicer-]

15. Let her be herself.

I am Gay and it took 10 years to get beyond all the bullshit with my family.. I am nearly 30 imagine all the years wasted eh? In the entire thing my mom rejected me and was murdered etc etc.. Life can go horrible and its even worse when your pushed away :(

Just sharing small tidbit of my personal experience.

[live love laugh]

23. I'm sorry about your struggle, I will continue to support her as much as I can. nt

[FreeState]

16. Print this post out and take it to a PFLAG meeting ASAP

The organization is there for you. These issues you are having are 100% about you, shame, guilt, fear, etc, they are not about you're niece. You made several stereotypes and uninformed statements in this post - you really need to get into contact with a group that can both educate you and support you. These issues are not uncommon, your in good company with a lot of loving people who have grown past this.

http://www.pflag.org

[Ignis]

20. +1 for great advice.

:kick:

[JTFrog]

50. +1000 n/t

[EFerrari]

17. Have you seen that yearbook picture of Rachel Maddow?

So "feminine", so beautiful.




But not nearly as beautiful as she is now, in her own skin, living her real life. She was beautiful before but she is at times radiant now.



Your niece is so lucky to have such a loving aunt. :grouphug:

[Raine]

46. WOW! Rachel has said that her critics say she looks like a guy

she'd never be mistaken for a guy in her high school picture! If she looked like that now though I don't think she would be taken seriously either.

[Zorra]

18. Just accept and love her unconditionally and without reservation.

GLBT folk are no different than you.

Are you a bigot? Prejudiced against "races" other than your own?

Of course not.

Embrace how unique she seems to you.

She is obviously teaching you to learn how to open your heart and mind, and more than likely, neither of you know it.

[Maru Kitteh]

19. I think you are going to learn a lot from her, if you will let her teach you.

Many of us end up having to mourn a bit of what we thought our kids might be. The important thing is that we realize that disappointment belongs to US - it's OUR baggage to deal with and we need to make sure that the kids themselves are never made to feel like they are some kind of disappointment, defective or wrong.

This young woman can teach you how to look beyond what you wish she would be to make you happy and instead learn to simply wish for her happiness, realizing that only she can know what that will look like.

This young woman can teach you that if some "friends" make you ashamed of a young lady you love - they ain't friends.

This young woman can teach you that love really can conquer all, if you let it.

Best of luck to both of you. :grouphug:

[Morning Dew]

25. *hugs* and more *hugs*

and try to read post #19 about 80 times - it's a great post.

[RainDog]

30. She is the same person she's always been

She's just older and has reached a point in life when her sexuality/ more open interest in sex has emerged with puberty - just like every other teenager.

If you didn't live in an environment in which you have friends and family who think there's something wrong with her sexual nature, you would only have to feel weird because she's growing up and changing - like every other kid you knew when he or she was younger who is no longer just a kid, but also a sexual human being.

I can't imagine having to spend a lot of my time with people who cannot accept that homosexuals exist in this world just like everyone else. I wouldn't want to live in that environment, even tho I'm hetero, as are my kids.

My son's girlfriend's long-time best friend is a lesbian. So what. That's the attitude in my family - so what.

It's hard enough for kids to make that transition to being young adults. Your niece needs someone who recognizes she's the same person she always was - and also one who is growing into adulthood - with the sexuality that implies.

If one of your friends "looks are her" like she knows - so what. Why should your niece have to pretend she's something she's not to make people with prejudices comfortable? Maybe when you feel awkward around people you think are judging your niece, you can just say to yourself, "so what?" and let that help you get past the fear of someone who seems "different" and get back to loving her because she's your family - same as she's always been.

[orleans]

31. just a couple thoughts here

kids need & deserve unconditional love--we know that and it sounds like you really love this girl. but they also deserve unconditional acceptance and those who love them need to step up to the plate and accept them for who they are.

i think pflag was a good suggestion (post #3) for you to check out.

this girl is gay--that doesn't mean she is a bad person. it just means she is gay. and our sexuality is a major deal when we're teens. remember? i would imagine unconditional acceptance from you would be rather important to her.

you said she came out two years ago. that is a huge milestone in her life. be happy for her that she was able to do such a possibly difficult thing at such a young age--be happy that she was strong enough in mind and spirit to do that.

would you feel the same way ("not 100% accepting") if she told you she was a poet, an artist, biracial, bipolar?

you mentioned the problems she is having at school and you attribute it to her being openly gay. perhaps the problems she is having at school could be better attributed to closed-minded, bigoted/prejudiced people? maybe the problems are not her fault? when you say you are attributing it to her being openly gay you are faulting her. that's harsh.

can you imagine being committed to a mental facility for who you loved when you were a teen?

one of my daughter's friends told us his father used to lock him in the closet with the bible--wanted the kid to pray his gay away. for *hours.* how sick is that? the boy was in seventh grade when that was happening. btw--it didn't work. he's still gay in spite of his maladjusted, fucked up freak of a father!

you can continue to have a relationship with this girl where you continue to be disappointed that she isn't the "cute, feminine girl" you hoped she would grow up to be or you can learn to get over it and celebrate her joys and strengths and courage and be a strong ali in her life.

you also said you know she isn't making the choice that would cause her such hardship. um... newsflash? it's not a choice! do you really think she is just saying she's gay but she really isn't?

you say it doesn't matter that much to you but it matters to "so many others who are far less accepting than me." well, wouldn't it be great if she had someone that encouraged her to stand up for herself against these assholes? wouldn't it be great if she had someone who was in her corner no matter what?

you're right--she'll have enough to deal with when it comes down to the ignorance of others. don't be in that crowd, making her feel bad about herself. open your mind.

[live love laugh]

32. I cannot reply to everyone it's past bedtime. But THANK YOU. I am in tears

b/c of your kind and supportive words.

Bless each and every one of you.

[SlicerDicer-]

34. Have a good evening. Things will be better :)

[jemelanson]

33. As the Mother of a gay child, let me tell you that the best thing you

can do for your niece is to love her as she is and who she loves.

It broke my hear when my gay son told me that among the gay men that he knows and that are in his circle of friends, some of whom I have met. That he is the only one who did not face at first at least temporary rejection by family. I can not imagine the pain that must have been to those boys or men. My son is a wonderful, loving, creative, understanding, person. I am so proud of the man that he has grown up to be and could not be more happy for him. The most important thing I want for him is to be in a healthy, happy relationship with some one he loves.


Be there for her. Bless you.

[tavalon]

35. You're doing better than most and your reasons are more protective than anything

Would that I had an aunt like you. Would that I had an aunt, come to think of it.

[diane in sf]

36. Your friend is wrong, your niece didn't choose to be gay, your love and acceptance

are probably some of the most precious things in her life.

[auntsue]

37. My Mom struggled to understand when I came out

to her. She thought I chose it, or she caused it, or that the family would judge her as well as me. I told her - I didn't decide to be gay I finally figured it out. I would not "choose" to do something so hard - who would?

Did you(or anyone) decide to be straight? People get stuck on "what the bible says and there are many places to go to find out what the bible REALLY says about it. The pastor at my Episcopal church says "Being gay is a gift from God - in the same way hair color, eye color etc are gifts from God. God made us and loves us - period. I have a bumper sticker on my car that says "Being myself is not a choice." If someone asked you to "try to be gay" don't you get a funny feeling in your gut? That's your true self saying "Oh not for me". When people tell gays to "try to be straight" we get a feeling just like that our true selves telling us what is right for US.

Your niece is SO lucky to have you to talk to DON"T abandon her. Check out Parents and Friends of Gays And Lesbians _ PFLAG they have great stuff to read and other resources. I wish y'all well.

[Scottybeamer70]

38. All she needs right now

is to know that you truly love her, no matter what. She will work through some problems on her own,
but as long as she knows that she has your unconditional love, that is what will carry her through.
I wish I had had an aunt like you when I was growing up. I didn't dare let anyone know that I was gay.
I think I would have been killed, either by my dad, or my older brother. I left home as soon as I could,
and worked my way through college. Never felt so alone in my life. I'm not at all surprised that so
many gay kids take their own lives. I'm glad I didn't, but the strong feelings surely existed. Now I've
outlived all my family, so I don't have to worry about what they think anymore. Funny how things change
now that I'm in my seventies............
I hope your niece has a most wonderful and fulfilling life.........and that you grow to love her more
and more with each passing day. She will probably surprise you in so many wonderful ways!

[MotorCityMan]

39. God bless you. It will get easier in time.

My hats off to you for such an honest, heartfelt post. You obviously love your great niece. Just remember she is the same person and loves you enough to share this with you.

I went thru this with my parents. They found out I'm gay when I was 19 and mom read my mail (guess she learned her lesson about that). Mom was actually ok with it, even with being a die hard Catholic. Dad, not so much. Dad's always been really liberal and respectful of people's differences, but it's different when it's your own son, or another relative you're close to. They did the same thing, sent me to a shrink to "cure" me (this was back in 83). One session with the shrink, and he told me it sounded like my dad needed counseling more than I did (he could have used it, but that was a different story).

A previous poster mentioned PFLAG, and you might want to look up a local chapter. It certainly helped my parents, just talking with others who were trying to deal with the same issue that they were.

[Luminous Animal]

40. This is a beautiful and wonderfully honest post. I looks like you are both on the brink of stepping

into the world being brave together.

[Withywindle]

41. You sound like a pretty awesome loving aunt, and I'm glad you posted this!

I just want to call your attention to two points:

I have continued to see her as my little girl but she is getting older.

Yes. At 17, she is almost an adult. It's loooong past time to let go of seeing her as a little girl; she hasn't been one for years. Children WANT to grow up, and they should. Idealizing childhood and wanting to hold them back is a sentimental adult indulgence; it does the kids themselves no favors. If you're only seeing the little girl still, it means you probably need to learn more about who this person on the verge of adulthood really is.

the recent problems she is having in school I attribute to her being openly gay.

If the problems are related to her being openly gay, then the problems are really caused by HOMOPHOBIC BULLIES. If you're blaming her for being "out" (which should be the normal state of being for LGBT people just as it is for heterosexuals) then you're blaming the victim, pure and simple. Coming out in high school is a MASSIVE act of courage. It is not easy. Those who manage it have a gift of valuing truth over lies even at a young age -- and are better at accepting the price than many adults.

Again: if there are problems caused by her being openly gay SHE IS NOT THE CAUSE OF THOSE PROBLEMS, BUT THE VICTIM. You need to back her up wholeheartedly, no questions asked, if you want to really help her.

[DearAbby]

42. She is the same person you loved

before you learned she was gay.

My Sister is gay, when I found out, pieces of our life just fell together like a puzzle. It was a great "ahhh ha" moment. But She is the same person I loved before I learned (deep down always knew) she is the same now, and I love her.

Boils down to that. Love, it's always the key.

[Sky Masterson]

43. I think you are a bit misguided on this.

If you want your Niece to be safe and happy then support her and accept her and defend her.
Let her know that there isn't a damn thing wrong with her and if god is almighty and perfect
and doesn't make mistakes then she is just how she was meant to be.
A long time ago interracial couples were looked on the same way.
Can you see looking back through time just how wrong that is?
I am not a religious person but I will send vibes of understanding your way because I believe that your niece
is far less confused than you,your friends,her school, and everyone else that tries to make her out to be defective..

[Scuba]

44. I understand your dilemna. My heart breaks for loved ones...

..that are gay. Not because they are gay, but because of the abuses they will suffer from anti-gay bigots.

Remember: Being gay is natural. Hating gays is a lifestyle choice.

[Behind the Aegis]

45. "Hating gays is a lifestyle choice."

BEST...STATEMENT....EVER!!!!

So you know, I will be stealing it. :)

[Scuba]

47. I stole it from another DU'er. I'm sure she won't mind you using it too. n/t

[polmaven]

62. Oh, I LOVE that!!!

"Being gay is natural. Hating gays is a lifestyle choice."

That is a fabulous statement to make to the bigots!!! Great!

[LibertyLover]

81. May I borrow that line?

It is the perfect answer to that stupid "being gay is a choice" garbage. I love it. Thank you very much!

[BlueIris]

48. Can't feel a lot of sympathy for you over your admitted homophobia.

And I heartily suggest PFLAG because your niece deserves your full acceptance.

[cali]

49. you sound wonderful and loving. and you know what? part of this just sounds like normal

letting go stuff. you fear that she can't handle life as an adult.

[Bluebear]

51. 'she can expect to face more petty issues because of being openly gay'

So you are telling her, point blank, that she should hide who she is. You are chipping away at her self-esteem because of your own prejudice,.

"it matters to so many others who are far less accepting than me" - you don't sound accepting whatsoever. Sorry!

I concur with the many who said you need to go to PFLAG and soon, because your attitude of not accepting her is going to cause mental health issues. Really.

Best of luck to your family!

[City of Mills]

52. Don't forget the love

That's the only advice I have.

[rasputin1952]

53. Rule #1, we are all human beings...

Rule #2, Love trumps all.

Slowly, very slowly, people are starting to realize that gay individuals are no different than anyone else. Virtually every straight individual has had contact with gays on a near daily basis, although many don't realize that an individual is gay, in most cases, it's not something that just pops up in day to day conversation in the workplace or in general conversation. The point is, people are whom they are, old prejudices die a hard death, but over time, tey do indeed die.

From everything I've read or heard, PFLAG is a great organization with a huge knoeledge base that reach out and helps people on every level of this sitaution. From your post, I'd say that you are a wonderful and loving individual, just as your grand neice is...starting off from that square, you've already moved far more forward than many others.

Sadly, there will always be some individuals that will force their opiniions, regardless of how unwarranted on both you and your neice...but love does indeed trump all else, and both of you appear to love in abundance.

[blueamy66]

54. I feel for you.

Just love her.

My cousin was killed by some dumb ass lesbian hating boys....threw a log at her head from a small hill....


Just love her.

[renate]

78. OMG--that's beyond awful

How brutal. I'm so sorry. :cry:

[blueamy66]

84. Yeah, in upstate NY....

at a park..at a college club get together

Just a freaking waste.

Sometimes I really hate people.

[niyad]

123. how awful for all who love your cousin. I hope her murderers are behind bars for life.

[Evolve_Already]

55. Thank you for sharing a piece of your life.

If you have not heard of her, please read about the life and untimely murder of Teena Brandon aka Brandon Teena.

Always be true.

[Brickbat]

56. PFLAG. Quickly.

[Dorian Gray]

58. Your niece

is the person who she is. You either love her for who she is, or you want to make her into someone who she is not so others will accept her.

Do the former, not the latter. If people judge you for her lifestyle, they are not your friends. And if people judge her, they are not her friends.

[mstinamotorcity]

59. don't worry about her being GAY

Stop looking at the fact she is going to be involved in same sex relationships. This is still your niece (baby). The things you taught her will forever remain with her. The fear you have is for her safety. Which is a fear you must overcome. When your niece came out she is the one who conquered the biggest fear. Of my many friends some who are in same sex relationships, the first thing they said was coming out was their biggest fear,coupled with the fact of being ostracized by the general population. But most of all losing the love and respect of their family. Family is very important. Your niece is being true to her self and those around her. Now it is time for you to be true to her and just support and love her no matter what. And those who are unaccepting well you just can't educate those who are brain dead to begin with. As for your sister,she is your sister. We get angry with the ones we love, but it is the LOVE that keeps us from staying ANGRY.

[vicarofrevelwood]

60. Most families try not to think about this subject,

I wasn't gonna take the chance. When my Girls were young I gave this subject some thought, and came up with a game plan. So a few years later, when someone asked me what I would do if one or both of them came home with another woman? I told them that I guess I'll have more daughters to love. I guess what I'm trying to say is take your blinders off, Look at your children and see them one day as adults. Cause you never know what the future holds. They didn't do this because they hate you it's on the genetic level, and thus an act of the almighty.So who are we to question it.

[old mark]

61. lll, if you loved he before, just continue- she was ALWAYS gay, it is not something

she just did to make you crazy...it is not a "fad", nor is
your "religious" friend correct in thinking it is a choice.
She is who she is and she always has been and it is not about you.


mark

[RobertDevereaux]

63. Ditto re PFLAG...

They will understand and give you the support you need.

Golden!

[enough]

64. Thank you for this very honest post. Your niece is lucky to have you. Live, love, laugh! (nt)

[laylah]

65. Your niece is blessed

to have you, and vice versa. :hug:

[Evasporque]

66. The best advice I can give...is let LGBT people live...

Leave our sexuality alone, stop agonizing over it and and just love, respect and accept us without coloring all our behavior with "teh gay" glasses.

And stop telling us how it is so hard and you will be miserable....

YOur great niece will be fine. Just stop saying stuff like "...expect to face more petty issues because of being openly gay even after school ends..." You don't know any of that for 100% sure...we aLL have good and bad times...that is ANYONES life...

.

Encourage her to live and love as she wants, to make herself be happy and have confidence that nothing is WRONG. Accent the positive...and give simple love.

Tell her to thrive, meet friends and love life....

[LWolf]

67. Unconditional love is a great blessing. nt

[Stevenmarc]

68. What you need to do is stop confusing acceptance with understanding

I get it, you don't fully understand the whole gay thing, and that's fine, I don't get the whole straight thing but that doesn't interfere with my ability to accept people in my life.

[cbdo2007]

69. It can be a very difficult thing to understand, and a difficult thing to accept....

but all that matters is that you give her your support and your love.

[Bluenorthwest]

70. Love = acceptance. Mixed feelings = your ego first

Just being harsh, but love is not questioning, it is embracing, it is not qualified, it is unconditional. Time to ask yourself who you are, and stop stressing about who your niece is. Who are you? That is the question here, who are you, in the end, going to be?

[Jamastiene]

71. For the umteenth time...

in this thread. Print your post and get thee to PFLAG. It will be the best thing you ever did. It will be worth it.

Just remember, she is being honest about who she is. That takes integrity, courage, and honesty. Imagine if she was constantly lying about who she is. Wouldn't you rather know she has integrity, courage, and honesty? Seems to me she has her act together.

If you go to PFLAG, they will help you come to terms with this. It sounds to me like 90% of your problem is worrying what other people will think. I've been there. Trust me. If they are not paying your bills, you don't have to worry what they think. They need to mind their own business. Just work on overcoming your fears like your niece has and the both of you will do just fine. Don't worry what other people think. Anyone who will be that judgmental, you don't want them in your life and neither does your niece. I'll tell you a secret about judgmental people; they are NEVER happy. They will bring you down. And most of them have some of the worst skeletons in their own closets of anyone around.

PFLAG. You will be glad you went.

[live love laugh]

90. I think that I will go Sunday on her birthday. I may ask her to go with me. nt

[LibGranny]

73. My youngest daughter is gay

which I always suspected - she never asked for a doll to play with, always GI Joes or things I considered "boys toys". She was in her 30's when she finally "came out" to me and the family. She asked if I hated her because of her sexual orientation and I said that would be like hating her because she has brown eyes instead of blue. I don't think you can help being what you were born to be. I have since read somewhere that adrenaline can have that effect on a fetus, and I was abused by her dad when I was pregnant with her. Interesting theory, no? We, as a family, have accepted her and she is now in an open and loving relationship with a young lady who had a child. Together they are doing a fantastic job of raising him and I love him as my own grandchild. I'm happy to see her so happy and hope this relationship lasts her lifetime. I don't know how parents (or any family members) can turn their back on their children because they are gay! No one will ever be as important to me as my children - no matter what they are or what they do.

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. +1 n/t

[CreekDog]

74. if you replaced the word "gay" with the word "black" this thread would've gone very badly

but i don't think the content of this thread is truly different from that.

[Demonaut]

77. yeah, I guess discovering your niece is black at 15

would've created a whole lot of other questions:eyes:

[live love laugh]

91. Guess what...she's both. nt

[CreekDog]

99. but there's no problem accepting that she's black? (there shouldn't be)

and likewise, there shouldn't be any problem accepting this aspect of her identity either.

[Posteritatis]

119. That it would be a problem at all becomes a little more ridiculous each day

Something I think is worth keeping in mind. Of course there shouldn't be a problem accepting that she's black or gay. However, ten or fifteen years ago, having a problem with the latter would still be seen as fairly normal, even while the former would be offensively inconceivable. Maybe ten or fifteen years from now both of those will finally be off the Problem Radar.

We move, we improve. It's not nearly fast enough, but it's still happening, either gradually and quietly as people just get used to things or are raised seeing them as nonissues, or with painful, active effort like what the OP's engaged in.

Both are something.

[Pisces]

76. I hope you gain the wisdom to accept her and stand up for her choices. Who cares what others accept

think ( I know she doesn't). She can still have family, she can still get married and she will have love in her life. Why are you mourning her life?

[madmom]

79. While I am not gay and have no gay relatives, that I know of, I think

what you are feeling is NOT having a hard time accepting that she is gay, but more like fearing the life she will lead because of other people's acceptance or not of her being gay.
You love her for who she is, she is gay, that, I think, is acceptance. But you fear her family and peers will not accept her and it will lead to pain and hardship for her, THAT is what you are having a hard time accepting IMO.
Keep on loving her for who she is, maybe one of these days we, as supposedly an intelligent species, will get it right.

[hedgehog]

80. I'm sorry she's having trouble at school. In most places, young people

are very accepting of others, no matter their orientation. Maybe the best thing you could do for her is to get on to your school board for making her life rough.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

82. I'm very sorry that you are having a hard time accepting your grand niece being gay and don't quite

know what you want from us here at DU. Do you want us to talk you down from your homophobia or congratulate you on your trying to accept her being gay? Obviously this disturbs/embarrasses you enough that you won't even take her to work with you although she wants to.

Depending where she chooses to live can make this either easier or harder for her but remember she has not chosen to be a lesbian, she just is one, and seems hardwired to be a lesbian as you are probably hardwired to be straight. Yes, there are people who are pansexual and have fluid relations but it appears that your niece is not one of them. I have a friend who is a lesbian and knew from a very early age that she was only attracted to women, and though she tried to date boys, it was a lie. She is now in a 13 year relationship with her wife and they have a beautiful daughter.

My youngest son is in the midst of a sexual identity crisis. He believes he's a lesbian and is looking in the future to have a sex change operation. In other words, he's a guy who is attracted only to women but feels like a woman himself. It hurts me a bit as a Mom because if he does do this, it will be a very tough road for him, probably even tougher than your niece's (and no one wants their child to feel pain), but I love and support any decision regarding this he's going to make. I "love him to death" unconditionally.

You might "love her to death" but it is not a true unconditional love and I think that if you begin to realize that what other people think or the conditioning you were brought up with doesn't matter, you might be able to open your heart a little wider and only wish the best for her and not for yourself.

[Jamastiene]

88. .

:hug:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

89. ......

Thank you :hug:

[vim876]

83. Sounds like...

...there are a couple of things going on here. It seems like you are more concerned with her gender presentation (the fact that she "dresses like a boy") than her sexuality (who she loves). It might be helpful to read some books on gender. Here's a good list: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~parkx032/B-GEND.html. Also, it sounds like you don't live in a major metro area. In terms of your safety concerns for her, it might be best to encourage her to move to the nearest major metro area after she's finished school. You love her a lot, despite the fact that your life experience doesn't give you a lot of context for understanding this sort of thing. Hang in there. In our time, it is possible for gay people to be out and live full and happy lives. She'll be ok, as long as she has people like you who love her.

[krabigirl]

86. Well, I would say, try your best to accept it as it is her life to live, not yours.

[slampoet]

87. If you family wants her in their life, accept her, Otherwise she will leave WI for someplace more

accepting and you may never see her again.

Grow up. She already has.

[Arugula Latte]

92. Has she "accepted" your heterosexuality?

[Arkana]

93. Why are you having a hard time?

She's gay. She didn't choose to be gay any more than she chose to be female.

The best thing you could do is support her 100%--so even if she does get pushed around at school, she'll have someone in her family behind her.

[elleng]

94. Maybe it would help if you (and she) would watch Rachel.

[Aerows]

95. I'm a lesbian

and things are better now than they were when I was growing up. My family didn't take it too well. You have to be who you are, though, and better to learn that sooner in life rather than later.

[Aerows]

96. I'm a lesbian

and things are better now than they were when I was growing up. My family didn't take it too well. You have to be who you are, though, and better to learn that sooner in life rather than later.

[GSLevel9]

97. just shows what a fucked up place we live in where there is a difference

between a gay girl and s straight girl.

WHO CARES!

Live and let live. I wish your GN the best, I hope she can be confident in who she is. I hope she can find friends and family who will love her for whats in her heart and soul.

Possibly suggest that in the future she moves somewhere more friendly to gay folks.

[applegrove]

101. Think of your niece as a very young woman who is growing up. She has

to become a loving, compassionate and responsible adult. She needs good information to get there. Bad information would be hatred, persecution, abuse/fear and contempt. Good information would be love, compassion and leading by example. Which type of information do you want to be responsible for imparting to her? I would think that good information would be what you have done...taken total responsibility for your own bias and fears for her. And since that is 'yours' you don't need to share that with her. Just send her the good information ... the 'good stuff'. After all they say kids (and no mistake she is still just a kid) need only a great example in one adult to emulate. It doesn't have to be a parent and in this case it looks like it is you.

[alfredo]

102. Unconditional love

Remember that your expectations are not hers. Open your heart, and if need be, your home to her.

Native Americans (Ojibwe and many other tribes) believed that gays were of "Two Spirits." They were not shunned, but were held in esteem.

The two spirit individual was the healer, the story teller, the potter, the soothsayer, and artist. It was not their choice to be inhabited by two spirits, it was a gift at birth, a blessing. You have a special grand daughter. You should be proud that you are related by such a special and wonderful gift in your family.

Maybe someday our culture will mature to the point where we understand how wonderful and important our two spirit citizens are.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

103. Beautifully said Alfredo. nt

[alfredo]

105. Thanks. I have a sister in law that is of two spirits.

She is a healer/midwife of horses.

[alfredo]

107. My sister in law is of two spirits. She has a special relationship

with animals. She is now a foal-man at an equine hospital.

[themadstork]

106. "My friend who is religious thinks that gay is a choice and that this is a fad."

Sorry if this takes away from the seriousness of this thread, but that has to be one of the funniest sentences I've read. Love the way it's worded.

[yardwork]

108. Thoughts from somebody who is a lesbian....

Most importantly, your love for your grand-niece is essential to her. As you can see she is already being rejected by many people who should be giving her unconditional love, especially her mother. Anything that you can do to make up for this failure on the part of others is even more important. In other words, your niece is counting on you. It's difficult enough to be a teenager without having one's own mother and much of the rest of the world against her.

Being gay is not a choice and is not a fad. Also, there are many religious people who completely accept gay people, being gay, and gay rights. Only some churches are biased against gay people. It is a choice to be religious or not. It is a choice to attend a church that is biased. In other words, your friend is the one making a choice. She is choosing to reject your grand-niece.

While many people will judge and reject your grand-niece, MANY other people will respect her for being openly gay. In fact, in her life she will meet many wonderful people who will love and support her for who she is. These will include highly successful professionals, extraordinarily spiritual and kind people, all kinds of people. I find it somewhat helpful when a person reveals themselves to be prejudiced against gay people, because then I know not to waste my time with them. It is certain that they have other biases and sooner or later I would have realized that I didn't want to be their friends anyway.

Your daughter's decisions about her clothes, hairstyles, etc. are all personal style choices that are very likely to change over the course of her life. As you get to know her friends you will discover that lesbians come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and styles. People who meet me are usually surprised to learn that I am a lesbian. I have always enjoyed wearing dresses, makeup, high heels, jewelry, etc. I am a girly-girl all the way! There are many straight women, on the other hand, who prefer to dress like men. You can't tell by looking. It sounds like your grand-niece likes to dress like a man. She might have liked this style even if she were straight. The two are not necessarily connected.

Unless your grand-niece becomes depressed and beaten down by rejection and prejudice, there is no reason why she can't have just as happy and successful life as any straight woman. I sense that you are worried about this. That's understandable. I want to reassure you that there is a big world out there for gay people, and things are getting a little better all the time. I am openly gay (out) at work and in my personal life. It is no secret to anybody that I am gay. I have many friends and I am respected at work.

You might want to look into a group called Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG). There is probably a local chapter near you. They can be a big help to you and your daughter.

You are doing God's work. Nothing is more important than loving and supporting one another. Thank you.

[Matariki]

109. What a wonderful post n/t

[yardwork]

116. Thank you!

[Kurovski]

112. +1

I'm sure glad you're back at DU, yardwork.

Best of luck to the OP. :hug:

Tell your-grand niece we gave her a big :hug:

Hell, tell her she might want to read DU.

[yardwork]

115. Thank you. And I agree - best of luck to the OP and her grand niece.

[MadMaddie]

110. I was 30 before I came out to my parents

In the years between 18 - 30 I pretended to fit in. I lied to my parents and lied to my friends. It was a horrible burdon to lie to those that you love.

Why lie? Fear of Rejection and guilt of failing to meet their dreams of who their little girl would marry.

One day I had enough I told them, it took them a couple of years to understand that it wasn't a "phase". I have been with my partner now for 16 years, we have traveled the country and we live a pretty good life.

The number thing I would share with you is this.....

"At some time in your life you have to let go of what people think of you or your family". They don't pay your bills and they don't run your life". I will say to you this was the most important decision I made in my life and when I made that decision I started living my life for me. Your niece has accepted who she is and owns it. Now it's up to you to realize that she is still your niece no matter what people think. You should have the same hope and dreams that she meets the love of her life and lives happily ever after.

Best Wishes!
MadMaddie

[Paradoxical]

111. This is my take.

Not everything that someone gets in trouble for can be attributed to ones sexual orientation. Have you ever pondered the possibility that she did something actually wrong?

There seems to be an underlying implication with your words. You don't seem happy at all about her sexuality. You seem to blame negative experiences in her life on her orientation instead of recognizing that it's homophobia and not her being gay that causes the problems.

She's not dressing like a boy. I cannot stress that enough. DO NOT TELL HER THAT SHE'S DRESSING LIKE A BOY. Do not get caught up in the hetero-normative gender stereotypes. She is dressing the way she feels like dressing. This has everything to do with her and NOTHING to do with the outside world's nonsense. The more you reinforce her decisions as the intelligent, open-minded young woman that she is, the more she will prosper.

Tell your friends giving her weird looks to check themselves. Confront them. Tell your Christian friend that she's dead wrong. She's not simply expressing an opinion with which you disagree. She is WRONG. Tell that to her face. And make sure that puritanical garbage stays out of your great nieces head.

It's not about ignoring the problem. It's about confronting it. It's about not letting yourself fall victim to falsehoods.

And for God's sake, don't tell her she has to wear a dress or makeup or long hair to look cute. That is utter nonsense. And if you feel yourself giving in to such emotions, you need to snap out of it fast. All young adults, I don't care how intelligent they are, are impressionable. You are responsible for not only accepting her, but helping her feel personal acceptance.

When I told my parents that I was bisexual, they gave me a blank look and told me that they "weren't surprised" and that they still loved me even though they do not encourage such "behavior". Nothing could have been more crushing to my ego. If they had been extremely negative and mocking, I could have written if off as a bullshit. But this sort of psuedo-acceptance where you give them such a backhanded compliment does more damage than anything else.

Don't just tell her you accept her for who she is. Tell her you love her and are so proud of her for who she is. Tell her those words and believe what you say.

[yardwork]

117. That's a damn good post, actually. I like it even better than mine.

[CreekDog]

113. The earth is round, I'm having a hard time accepting it

Seems like it should be flat. :shrug:

[readmoreoften]

114. +1

[stevenleser]

118. I don't understand what is hard to accept.

My daughter, who is 17 now, appears to be hetero, but when she was 12, because of what I know about how much fear exists in gay teens about whether they will be accepted, I told her that I did not care if she turned out to be gay or bi that she would have my complete support.

I honestly do not understand people who have trouble accepting. I mean, I support your attempts to deal with your prejudices and echo the other statements here that you join PFLAG, but I just do not understand the inability to accept.

This is a 17 year old girl who needs your support to deal with the assholes out there and she needs it badly.

[xultar]

120. You are concerned for her cuz u know the world sucks. I understand...be strong

For her and be there for her.

[a la izquierda]

121. My mother is gay...

I don't fear how people will treat her. I fear how I will react if I discover someone treating my mother badly. She is happy, so I am happy. As long as her partner is good to her, it matters not whether her partner is a man or a woman. And it never has, not since she came out to me when I was 19.

Sorry you're having an issue with your niece's sexuality. But it's YOUR problem, not hers.

[bluestate10]

122. You should send her to school in a big city like NYC, CHI or LA, where

being gay is accepted. Don't rule out the military, that is a way to pay for an education. Your great niece will be ok if you stand fully behind her, seems you are the only family that she can count on, don't let her down.