My question for the day:

[mmonk]

How can progressives and liberals pin their hopes for progressive change on non-progressive politicians? I can come up with no logical answer to that question. I suppose change can only come through movement politics and that will take a very long time. I wonder what our society is going to look like by that time? How much unnecessary suffering and sacrifice will have to occur?

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Complacency, self-delusion, media deception......

I guess when the U.S. is finally, and unequivocally a third world nation, and we do not have to spend so much money on the military, we will finally be able to spend some money domestically, where it can really help us. Until then, I have little hope for a positive future. I fear for my own future, as well as that of my children and grandchildren.

Worst case scenario, EAT THE RICH!!!

[Scuba]

5. Nailed it ..........

[BrklynLiberal]

12. LOVE that sign......

:rofl:

[NHDemProg]

8. People think half is better than none

until they realize their half ain't worth shit to begin with.

[HereSince1628]

2. It's a dysfunctional relationship, we're so sure we can FIX 'em

then everything will be OK. You'll, see it'll be worth all the battering.

[mmonk]

3. I may be too old to see.

[HereSince1628]

7. Or your eyes could be swollen shut from the bruisings

New movements and new parties are born of comprehensive failures in old parties during critical periods...

The inability of the national Dems to provide support to fight the fascistic enabling acts across 16 states is such a failure. The national party has provided which of the following to state efforts in WI, MI, OH: help with message from geniuses at democratic think tanks, money, legislative or legal expertise, effective strategy, interest? The answer seems to be none of the above. It's clear that for the national party, our problems are not their problems. And in the states it is NOT only about labor, it's an assault on the notion of socially responsible government. Essentially every democratic value since FDR.

THAT aloof attitude from the national will prove to be THEIR problem in the next round of national elections. Because although we say we are energized by the vigorous political fights in the states, nothing is fixing the base's disappointment with the bigger party. The party's relevance to critical political realities of its base is missing in places that in living memory were the raison d'etre of the party.

Quiet shoulder shrugging during the loss of all the social reforms of the last century and a quarter isn't really going to win corporate support for traditional democratic _causes. It just completely redefines the causes of the party in a manner that has little to do with the causes of the base.

Everyone outside this relationship can see that the players are at the brink of irreconcilable differences, there isn't even a reason to keep it together for the children, and in this economy, the pet donkey is too expensive to keep.

[KharmaTrain]

4. Obviously Not Enough Yet...

This is a bitterly divided country with many groups pitted against one another. Just read the threads on DU and you'll see them...not just with rushpublicans and the "oligarchy" but within as well. While many may agree on a broad range of issues, the priorities are another story...and when one gets put in front of the other, the popcorn truck rolls into town.

We may just be seeing an awakening...or a continuing awakening as the country's fates get worse. While people, especially the working class, are suffering, the pain still isn't enough to keep from people voting and working against their own interests. Those who sat out last year's election, you're seeing how avoiding the lesser of the evils means the worst of them. Maybe the GOTB over-reaches and power-grabs will be the tipping point that will lead to a resurgence in a much needed labor movement, but its too soon to tell.

The major problem is our non-stop election system that requires billions of dollars each Presidential cycle and where each House candidate will need at least 2 million and a Senate candidate 15 million. This means those who write the big checks get their calls answered and favors delivered. The working class means little except in the short time in the closing weeks of the election. Then its back to gathering money for the next cycle. Until there's true campaign reform we'll be stuck with the best candidates money can buy.

Cheers...

[mmonk]

6. I guess I see the dangerous aspects. That being many people

who are suffering blame the wrong people or things because of all the propaganda and lack of real journalism. It allows the scape goating of things from Acorn to immigration while Wall Street crooks ride the wave and continue to get their way.

[KharmaTrain]

10. It's Cause People Have Been Lazy...

Those who watch Faux don't do so for the propaganda as much as the affirmation of already established opinions. Many have had them all their lives and now have media outlets that cater to their ignorance and macho. It's living proof of the adage that you can't fix stupid. Truth means little when a convenient spin or lie can be made "plausible" by many who are turned off by both sides or have tuned out altogether.

It's frustrating to see how people in this country have become so stuck in their ways and willing to let the village burn to prove their points. It's the essence of divide and conquer that has become the mainstay of our politics. When you hear words like "triangulation" and "wedge issues", you can see how politicians will always look for the easy way out...promise what they know they can't deliver or run into the beaucratic wall and it overwhelms them. Until enough of the working class stop blaming one another and work together, the Progressive movement in this country will be shat upon by the establishment Democrats cause where else do we go??

[OneGrassRoot]

9. I don't know. I have no reply beyond that...

but wanted to acknowledge the question, as it's a very good one.

:hi:

[mmonk]

11. A substitute or alternative society within the current set up maybe?

The difficulty I guess would be in the details.

:hi:

[Motown_Johnny]

13. because we need 100 small steps. One giant leap isn't possible

The conservatives constantly show up and vote for whoever is on the ballot. It doesn't matter to them if the guy just got caught with a prostitute or embezzling funds. The always turn out to defeat the progressive and this is what has moved everything to the right over the years.

Progressives can't make this up in one election, or three, or five. We need to consistently show up and vote for the least conservative viable candidate in order to reverse the momentum that has already been built up. Then it will take another series of elections to begin to shift things back toward where we want them to be. Then more, and more, and more.

Your "Don't Blame Me, I Voted For Nader!" attitude is part of the problem.



Conservatives fall in line, Liberals fall in love, and when they are not in love they don't turn out. Stop needing to love the candidate and just do what needs to be done. Voting for the lesser evil is LESS EVIL! Deal with it.

[mmonk]

14. We've been walking backward. I will DEAL with it.

I'll fight both parties when they are wrong. And I never voted for Nader. But I suck at blindly following.