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bdf Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-11 12:48 PM
Original message
Japan Nuke Design: What they did right and what they did wrong

Japan Nuke Design: What they did right and what they did wrong



Why yet another article on the nuclear disaster in Japan? Because there are a lot of partial truths and untruths by the MSM. It's only by piecing them together and resolving the contradictions that a truer picture emerges.

Disclaimer



I am not connected in any way with the nuclear industry. I have no formal training in nuclear power generation, although whilst gaining my degree in Electrical and Electronic Engineering I was taught about conventional (coal/oil) generation (steam is steam and generators are generators, only the heat source changes). I am not defending or condemning nuclear power here, merely considering the engineering decisions that were made, whether they were good ones or bad ones, and the implications.

Background



The Japanese nuclear plants affected by the tsunami were essentially General Electric Mk 1 Boiling Water Reactors with a few modifications. GE Mk 1 reactors are still in use in the US.

What They Got Right



To be more accurate, what they got right together with what they didn't get wrong (decisions that were not great but not wrong either).



  • The decision to use nuclear power at all

    Given the shortage of free land in Japan, its economic circumstances and—above all—the assurances of the nuclear industry of safety, this wasn't an obviously wrong decision at the time. It still isn't an obviously wrong decision, but the implementation clearly left a lot to be desired.

  • Fitting vent valves

    The original GE design did not have vent valves for the core. That meant that a loss of coolant accident (LOCA) partially exposing the fuel rods could generate a lot of hydrogen and oxygen eventually leading to pressures that could crack the core open even if they didn't explode. The designers claimed this could never happen because of all the redundant safety systems.

    After Chernobyl and Three Mile Island, countries around the world started modifying their Mk 1s to have vents. Japan resisted doing so until 1992 but finally added vents. These were used in the early stages of the incident to bleed off hydrogen and oxygen.

  • Siting plants on the coast

    Any thermo-electric system, be it coal, oil or nuclear, requires both a supply of heat and a sink of heat (i.e., something cold compared to the heat source). The thermodynamic efficiency increases with increasing temperature differential of the two. Properties of materials place an upper limit on the temperature of the heat source so good cooling is essential for high efficiency. The heat sink must not only be cold, it must be able to dissipate the heat without itself getting significantly warmer.

    One method of cooling is the cooling tower. Immense structures shaped like fattened diabolo toys lazily emitting water vapour—they take up a lot of space which is short in supply in Japan. Fast-flowing, high volume rivers are good for cooling, but they're in short supply. Many nuclear reactors in many countries are sited on coasts to use the sea as a heat sink.

  • Quake-proofing

    The reactors survived the quake. Despite the fact that the quake was of higher magnitude than the worst-case the designers expected. Despite the fact that the underlying rock was a lot more friable than it was believed to be (it was claimed by TEPCO to be solid but you could crumble it in your hand). It is possible to design reactors to withstand earthquakes and these did withstand a more severe earthquake than anticipated, despite the current outrage about the stupidity of siting reactors in an earthquake zone.

  • Three backup generators

    The GE Mk 1 design (as used in the US) had two diesel backup generators in case power from the grid was lost. One of these could provide sufficient power to pump cooling water into the reactor core if there were a LOCA. If that generator somehow failed, the second was there as a backup.

    The Japanese reactors had three backup generators. Even if one were in pieces due to maintenance/repairs, there were still two generators available.


What They Got Wrong



These are seriously flawed design decisions.


  • Choosing the GE Mk 1

    The Mk 1 was cheaper than competing designs because, amongst other things, the containment was not as strong. It has attracted criticism over the years, including from regulatory authorities, but no action was taken.

  • No vents in the reactor building

    After retro-fitting valves to the reactor core to vent off hydrogen and oxygen in the event of a LOCA it appears they gave no consideration as to the consequences of venting. According to reports the gases vented into the main building rather than being vented to the outside. This appears to be the cause of the explosion that blew the cladding off the reactor buildings leaving only a skeletal steel framework, the reactor and associated machinery.

    At best this was a stupid design decision but not a catastrophic one. At worst was a catastrophic decision as it could have destroyed internal power lines and control systems that would have taken out backup generators and/or pumping systems necessary to prevent meltdown.

  • No allowance for tsunamis

    The word "tsunami" is Japanese and has entered into usage worldwide because tsunamis are frequent occurrences in Japan. It is beyond belief that the Japanese reactors did not take tsunamis into account. Yet the emergency diesel generators were sited close enough to ground level that the tsunami flooded all three with water and particulates, rendering them inoperational. This is design stupidity bordering upon criminal negligence.

  • Placement of "cooling pond"

    A new nuclear power rod, in isolation, has so little radioactivity and so little heat that you can safely hold it in your hand. The size and geometry mean that there is a very low level of spontaneous fission but very little induced fission by neutron capture.

    A used power rod, however, is very hot in terms of both radioactivity and temperature. Radioactive enough that it is dangerous to go near it. Hot enough that without cooling the cladding, and then the fuel itself, would burst into flame releasing highly-radioactive particles into the atmosphere.

    For these reasons, spent rods are placed into cooling ponds for years until the radioactivity declines enough that they can be removed. The water of the pond keeps them cool and attenuates radioactivity to safe levels. A cooling pond that loses enough water to even partially uncover the rods results in a serious fire releasing very radioactive and toxic material as fine particles that can be carried by the wind.

    In the GE Mk 1 reactor, the cooling pond is not a separate facility. Instead it is a tank in the reactor building. It is separated from the reactor core by around 1/4 the diameter of the core (visual estimate from various graphics). The vertical centre of the pond is horizontally aligned with the top of the core (again, a visual estimate). A serious hydrogen explosion in the core would almost certainly damage the pond too (as seems to have happened in at least one Japanese reactor).

    The placement of the pond makes transfer of spent fuel rods from core to pond far simpler, safer and cheaper. But it seriously magnifies the dangers of a core explosion both in terms of quantity of radioactive and toxic materials released but in the intensity of the radiation. Another design flaw bordering upon criminal negligence.


Conclusions



The GE Mk 1 reactor has intrinsic design flaws whether it is sited in an earthquake/tsunami zone or not. Of interest is how these design flaws came to be. One GE scientist quit because of them. Nuclear regulatory agencies have spotted them over they years and done nothing about them. Why?

GE marketed this reactor as "intrinsically safe," saying that failure modes would not cause harm either because the failure mode was self-limiting or because of multiple backup and emergency systems. Was this due to inadequate analysis? Certainly the lack of vent valves in the initial design were because they were deemed unnecessary as LOCAs would be dealt with by backup systems.

I doubt GE had incompetent engineers on such a project. Part of the problem would have been "bean counters" insisting that cost be minimized so they would get more buyers. Part of the problem would have been senior management with more financial than engineering expertise insisting that, for example, vent valves not be fitted because it might be interpreted as an admission that perhaps the reactor wasn't as intrinsically as safe as was claimed (good engineers would see vent valves as "belt and braces" just in case rather than as a criticism of other parts of the system).

Nuclear regulators dismissed the flaws because admitting to them might cast doubt on the whole concept of nuclear power and/or impact the profits of GE. Never underestimate the power of politics and money to drive bad decisions.

Given the forces that permitted the design flaws in the GE Mk 1, we have to seriously question if any existing nuclear reactor design is safe, do a thorough analysis of them all, then take the appropriate action. It may not be economically feasible to rectify flaws in some designs and therefore it may be necessary to shut down those designs as soon as possible.

We must not approve any new reactor designs or even new reactors to old designs until the regulatory process is fixed. No more "head in the sand" because ordering changes might cast a bad light on nuclear power in general, or cost GE or plant operators a lot of money. The regulators must place safety above all. I am not confident, given the influence of wealth and politics upon such organizations, that this is possible.

There are a couple of interesting reactor designs that might be intrinsically safe. Our continued lack of action towards the twin problems of Peak Oil and Global Climate Change may mean we have no choice but to use nuclear power to supplement renewable energy sources when the excrement hits the fan in a few years. Our procrastination means that when things get bad we may not be able to deploy sufficient renewable energy sources quickly enough. If our lack of action now forces us to temporarily supplement green energy with nuclear power we need the safest technologies available. The two possible candidates I know of are the Pebble Bed Reactor and the Travelling Wave Reactor—but in light of recent events I take the claims of both with a large pinch of salt.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-11 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Couple of questions.
Are the spent fuel pools open to the inside of the upper structure and then exposed to outside when the upper structure exploded?

How is water circulated in the pools? Has that system failed? If so how? and can it be fixed? What is backup method of getting cooling to the pools?

Do you know how many of this design are in the USofA?
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bdf Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Spent fuel pools
I believe the spent fuel pools are open at the top (they are in other designs where the pools are completely separate from the reactor building), so water pumped from fire hoses or dropped from helicopters might get into them (apparently the wind is disrupting helicopter drops).

I believe water is circulated to the pools from pumps. However, the same problems that killed the core pumps would have taken out those too. The good news is the cooling pools can go a couple of days without pumps, unless they're leaking. The bad news is that radiation levels indicate that some of them may be leaking. The backup method without those pumps is firehoses/helicopter drops combined with a lot of luck.

I've seen three figures for the number of operational GE Mk 1s in the US: 22, 35 and 36 (take your pick). Some may be on fault lines but remember that it was the tsunami that turned this into a catastrophe, not the earthquake itself.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-11 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Thanks for the info.
I would think it possible that the earthquake could crack the pools, making them leak. Also, what ever means they use to cool the pools should have a backup.
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bdf Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Possible, but
We know operators and governments lie about nuclear accidents. We know the press get things wrong. So we don't know what actually happened, but...

Yeah, the quake could have cracked the containment of the cooling ponds and/or the core. But that would have led to a different profile of radiation leakage than what was reported (but the reports could have been lies). However, if the profile showed the core or pools had leaked as a result of the quake then the government would have ordered a far larger evacuation zone at the start (all the while claiming there was no real danger and it was merely a precaution). The helicopter water drops would have begun immediately.

What may be possible is the quake caused minor leaks in steam pipes or even core containment. The sort of thing leak that could be compensated for by the cooling pumps and topping up the water, if only the pumps had been operational.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-11 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. One thing about the hydrogen vents.
Edited on Thu Mar-17-11 06:31 PM by Statistical
Western reactors have hydrogen igniters as backup to avoid hydrogen buildup (defense in depth). They should activate automatically, in any emergency condition. Think a high tech blowtorch. They didn't work. They work by igniting the hydrogen before it can build to concentrations that lead to detonation. A controlled burn.

Two questions.
1) Why didn't they work? It is worth investigating. Knowing TEPCO maybe they were defective and TEPCO never repaired them.

2) Why didn't the operators know they didn't work? If the igniter failed and operators knew they could have cut/drilled/blown a hole in containment to allow the hydrogen to vent. It seems based on reports they caught totally unaware when hydrogen exploded.

I believe (based on limited info) there were 3 major failures which contributed to the extent of the damage:

1) Loss of generators and inability to get any power to the pumps before batteries failed. Had this not happened it is unlikely the core would have overheated and hydrogen produced. They had 14 hours from the tsunami till the hydrogen explosion. Getting pumps up before that may have prevented everything else that came.

2) Igniter. The explosions damaged equipment, blew secondary containment and put the cooling ponds at risk. This made the situation far worse and resulted in damaged plants and high radiation even when pumping of seawater started.

3) Cooling ponds. Nobody noticed the coolant in the pond was boiling down. It took a long time. Refilling the pond two days ago would have been much easier (with water acting as both heat and rad shield). The failure to ensure ponds remained filled made the disaster worse and harder to contain.

Each one of these failure made the disaster larger and more difficult to contain.

It went from
Loss of power - simple restore power within 8 hours (time of battery backup)
Hydrogen explosion - pumps and equipment damaged secondary containment blown.
Fuel pond exposure - lethal radiation in some areas and now 12 potential sources of disaster (6 reactors + 6 ponds)


Nice analysis I enjoyed reading it.
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bdf Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Igniters?
As I understand it, it wasn't a hydrogen explosion in the containment because that had been retrofitted with vent valves back in 92 (later than most countries, but better late than never). The hydrogen vented not to the air, not through igniters, but into the building that housed the reactor. That's why, when you see the initial explosions at the reactors, the panels are blown off the building leaving the steel skeleton, the reactor core and the less fragile plant. Look at the before and after pics.

The subsequent problems came from no coolant pumps working after the batteries ran down. That caused far more serious problems.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. The reactor building is secondary containment.
Hydrogen vented into reactor building. There should be hydrogen igniter which kick on in an emergency. This would cause the hydrogen which vents into the building to burn rather than build up and explode.

"The hydrogen vented not to the air, not through igniters, but into the building that housed the reactor."
Exactly and that is where the igniter are located. To burn off any hydrogen before it can build up to levels that allow an explosion.

Here is one NRC doc.

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/nuregs/contract/cr6530/
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bdf Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Was that really the intention?
OK, I can see the outer shell being designed to be secondary containment. Had it survived it might have stopped a lot of radioactive materials escaping.

I can see the benefit of igniters inside the building in the case of an unplanned, accidental rupture of a steam line that causes a release of hydrogen. Makes sense. You hope it never happens, but take precautions just in case.

What I can't get my head around is that it seems that the valves on the reactor core vented into the building and not to the outside (preferably with an igniter at the end of the vent pipe to flare off the hydrogen). Even with the NRC doc showing that a mix of hydrogen and steam still ignites safely if the steam suddenly condenses, that strikes me as incredibly stupid design. There would have to be a hell of a compelling reason to vent the core to the inside of the building and rely on igniters, and I just don't see one. Even if the hydrogen didn't explode the deflagration could well cause harm to personnel.

The fact that the igniters didn't work is yet another flaw. But venting the core to the inside of the building seems a far more serious one.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. My guess.
The intent is to reduction radiation release in a small accident. By venting into secondary they could prevent release into atmosphere. However that is just a guess on my part.
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bdf Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-17-11 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. A secondary, maybe, but...
OK, venting into a secondary to contain at least some of any potential radioactive contamination makes sense. But using the reactor building as a secondary doesn't.

Problem 1: the deflagration could harm (or even kill) personnel.

Problem 2: the contained radioactivity, even though probably low in quantity and energy, would contaminate the reactor building.

Surely if you needed a secondary it would be a separate tank with egress filters to trap particulates and steam. At least for venting the core. Igniters in the reactor building to cope with leaks in steam lines makes sense; using the reactor building as a dump for a deliberate venting of the core still makes no sense to me.

But we're both guessing, based on news reports of what happened. And we both know that the nuclear industry and governments lie about these things and it can often be decades before the full truth comes out. Here in the UK it was 30 years before we learned of the Windscale fire. It could be that the venting wasn't deliberate at all but an uncontrolled breach of a steam line with a lot of hydrogen in it.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-11 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. The reactor building is not habitable durring reactor operations.


Gas was vented into the space between the roof and the top of the reactor shield. That area has far too much heat and pressure during reactor operations. That space is only used to gain access to primary containment and reactor core during refueling and maintenance ops.

The control room in this facility is actually located in the turbine building. This is one reason that nobody died in the hydrogen explosions despite how massive they were.

Still I agree with your larger premise. The MK I has some significant flaws. I am a proponent of nuclear power (although I feel it should be nationalized) but I wouldn't shed a tear if they shutdown all MK I reactors. At a minimum they should be shutdown pending a comprehensive review.
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bdf Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Interesting, but not conclusive
You say:

That space is only used to gain access to primary containment and reactor core during refueling and maintenance ops.


Refuelling is when I'd expect a strong likelihood of hydrogen release if there were an unsuspected problem with the reactor.

Incidentally, I think I've figured out why the igniters didn't work. First you have to figure out how they were implemented:


  • They could use finely-divided platinum black as a catalyst but it's expensive and easily poisoned. So strike that.
  • Candles, regularly replaced. Prone to human error and draughts.
  • Flames powered by natural gas. Better, but the quake probably took out gas lines. Even if gas lines to the reactor survived, gas suppliers probably shut the lines down further upstream because of branch lines that didn't survive.
  • My favourite. A mains-powered sparking device. Like the one on my gas cooker, except the igniter would run continuously rather than when somebody presses a button. These would fail for the same reason the pumps failed.


If my favourite choice is the correct one, another piece of badly-flawed design. Igniters are there, in part, to deal with the problems that can arise if the power to the pumps is lost, but if the power to the pumps is lost so would be the power to the igniters.
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bdf Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Great graphic
BTW, that's a great graphic. It shows perfectly one of the serious design flaws.

Just to the left of the top of the reactor is the spent fuel cooling pond. Above the top of the reactor and to the right is the travelling crane that moves spent rods to the pond. It shows, very clearly, how this design simplifies the transfer of spent rods from reactor to pond. Minimizes exposure to the air. Minimizes radiation dosage to operators. Minimizes costs.

Only problem: it maximizes the worst-case radiation release in the event of a core explosion.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-11 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
11. Sorry, you lost all credibility when you stated that siting these reactors on the coast was good
Putting these reactors on the coast was a horrible move. Japan knows that this area is prone to both major earthquakes and major tsunamis. So why place a nuclear reactor right on the shore where, in a disaster of this size, it would be subject to a double whammy.

Putting reactors on the coast was a foolish, stupid idea.
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bdf Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Nope, the coast was not a bad idea
Not necessarily a great idea, but not a bad one.

Putting reactors on the coast of Japan was not a bad idea. Putting this particular flawed design of reactor anywhere was a bad idea.

Let's go through it again slowly.

As far as we can tell from the reports, the reactors survived the quake without serious damage. That alone kills half your argument because of the following facts:


  1. The reactors were designed to survive a (IIRC) 7.5 quake. The quake was 9.0 (some say 9.1). To be sure the magnitude at the reactor would be lower than at the epicentre, but the Richter scale is logarithmic. A 9.0 quake has a shaking amplitude 31.6 times larger than a 7.5 quake. Yet the reactors survived.
  2. According to Leuren Moret, the underlying was not solid and free from any fault lines but so full of micro fault lines that she could crumble it between her fingers. Even with rock far more friable than TEPCO had claimed, the reactors survived.


So we can, and did, build reactors to survive quakes.

Now for the other half of your argument.

Japan has a shitload (that's a technical term :)) of tsunamis. This tsunami killed the backup generators, which turned the incident into a major catastrophe. The backup generators were needed because the reactor was shut down after the earthquake (sensible decision) and the grid was lost because of the earthquake. Unlike GE Mk 1s in the US which have two backup generators, the Japanese reactors have three.

The critical, serious design flaw was the siting of those backup generators. Had they been in well above ground level in a building with a steel skeleton that would survive both the earthquake and tsunami we'd now be congratulating the engineers for their foresight and great design.

So, to recap:

Putting the reactors in a country prone to severe earthquakes was not a bad idea for we can design them to survive earthquakes.

Putting the reactors on the coast of a country prone to severe tsunamis was not a bad idea for we could (but didn't) easily modify the design to survive even that.

Putting the emergency generators of these particular reactors at or close to ground level was negligence to such a high degree that it approaches pure insanity.

If the designers, operators and—above all—the regulatory authorities had all done their jobs correctly there would have been no problem with reactors on the coast of Japan.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Did the reactors survive?
Yes, the reactor vessel and primary containment survived. But the power to those plants didn't survive, and I imagine that before to long we'll find out, if TEPCO officials haven't found out already, that the water delivery system to these reactors didn't survive either.

As far as relocating these generators, remember, the wall of water was twenty, thirty feet high. Where are you going to put those generators? On the roof? Impractical, given the weight of just one generator.

They could, and should have put these reactors inland, there is no good reason for them to be on the coast, seawater or no.

But then again, there is no need for nuclear reactors period. And despite the assurances that this is a once in a lifetime event, the trouble is we continue to see reactors hit with "once in a lifetime events", and we simply cannot continue to afford to take those kind of chances.

It isn't reactor design that is the problem with nuclear power, it is simply that we can't eliminate human error. It was human error to locate these reactors on the coast. Just like it was human error to build a reactor without a containment building. Just like it was human error that led to the events at TMI and NRX. Just like it will be human error that leads to the next nuclear nightmare.
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bdf Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-18-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Now you're getting towards the real point
You're still disputing the idea of putting the reactors on the coast. That's dealing with a symptom, not the disease. If the special interests can sell that excuse they can ignore the real problems.

The real problem is that the GE Mk 1 is unsafe anywhere. Move it away from earthquake/tsunami zones and you greatly reduce the chance of a major core breach, but there is still a risk. The design of the Mk 1 with the placement of the cooling pond is such that a major core breach magnifies into a gigantic catastrophe. That design should be taken out of service no matter where the reactors are.

The real problem is that the backup generators were not situated to withstand tsunamis. Might have been difficult to do. Might have been expensive. Did they not foresee the problem or did they not want to spend the money?

The real problem is that designers, manufacturers, operators and regulatory authorities do not do their jobs. Special interests cause them to ignore issues because they would cost money and/or reduce confidence in nuclear power. Perhaps it is impossible for humanity to fix these issues.

Putting the reactors on the coast would not have been a bad idea if everyone had done their job. Putting reactors anywhere is a bad idea if safety problems are ignored.

Focus on the fact that they were sited on the coast and we'll end up ignoring the real problems. How do we ensure everyone involved stops ignoring safety issues. Can we ensure everyone involved stops ignoring safety issues. Focus on the coast and all we'll end up with is unsafe reactors away from the coast and the same broken processes.

Can we do away with reactors? I hope we eventually can. I suspect it will be a long time. Peak Oil is starting to bite and we have nowhere nearly enough renewable energy sources deployed to do without nuclear. The way we're handling Peak Oil and climate change means it's going to be a long time before we do deploy enough renewable energy sources. Hint: 58% of France's electricity is nuclear.
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