Libyan rebel leaders say no military intervention. I think we should respect that.

[readmoreoften]

Ruken says he fears for the safety of people inside Gadhafi-controlled Tripoli but that Libyans are adamantly against any Western military intervention.

"No one is interested in having foreign soldiers on Libyan soil," Ruken said. "There's a firm belief that this matter will be settled internally.
"I am torn about the suffering of the people in Tripoli, but I am telling you what people are saying inside Libya, whose voices can't be heard."

Who is Ruken?

>Ruken was last in Libya two weeks ago and remains in close contact with his former university colleagues in Benghazi, who he says are helping co-ordinate the efforts to bring an end to Gadhafi's 42-year dictatorship and approached Ruken for his help.
"I was asked, as one who lives in the West, about what was the best way to represent ourselves to the world," said Ruken. "I am involved in the ongoing discussions to help in the vacuum of leadership that the situation has created.<

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/02/28/f-libya-kozma-ruken.html

Airstrikes and a no-fly zone put foreign soldiers on Libyan soil.

[ixion]

1. "No one is interested in having foreign soldiers on Libyan soil,"

Exactly. We invite ourselves to other people's parties all the time.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

24. America, the Salahi's of international affairs.

My lame attempt at a joke in a not funny situation.

[geek tragedy]

2. That was three weeks ago, before Gaddafi started defeating the rebels.

"Ruken said he is confident that the situation in Benghazi and other parts of eastern Libya is stabilizing.

"Security is established," he said. "There have been co-ordinated efforts across the cities to prevent a humanitarian crisis. Medical supplies are flowing in from Egypt and from other places. Even banks are open, and people are running the cities.""



Yeah, things have changed a bit since then,

[readmoreoften]

4. He said it's a "firm belief" and Gaddafi was bombing them from the beginning.

They've always been fighting an uphill battle.

"I am torn about the suffering of the people in Tripoli, but I am telling you what people are saying inside Libya, whose voices can't be heard."

[geek tragedy]

3. How does a no-fly zone put foreign soldiers on Libya's soil? nt

[readmoreoften]

6. You need people on the ground. There's no such thing as a "pure air mission".

I asked this very question to an ex-military pal.

[Pirate Smile]

9. The Resolution "ruled out a foreign occupation force"of any form on any part of Libyan territory".

The resolution's key provision also authorized countries enforcing the zone "to take all necessary measures . . . to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack . . . including Benghazi," but it ruled out a foreign occupation force "of any form on any part of Libyan territory."



Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/17/2120797/un-security-council-approves-no.html#ixzz1GuZWd5N4

[readmoreoften]

20. We'll see how that actually plays out.

[killbotfactory]

5. The no fly resolution prohibits foreign soldiers from setting foot on Libyan soil

So it seems like we are.

[northoftheborder]

7. Rebels in the city cheered and shot fireworks and guns in the air when....

.....they heard the UN resolution passed.

[readmoreoften]

8. Was that the National Front for the Salvation of Libya?

The far-right, free-market, CIA-backed group who want intervention? Or was that the majority of the rebels.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[readmoreoften]

16. You know, it's really fucked up to assume that because I disagree with intervention I support

Gaddafi or Chavez. I'd bet money that I've done more for the resistance in Egypt and Tunisia than you. And I'd personally die to fight get rid of Gaddafi. Furthermore, I'm not a Chavez supporter. I'd like the working-class to uprise against Chavez, thanks very much.

So much for your facile assumptions.

[joshcryer]

15. What are you talking about? More people trying to demean the revolutionaries?

[readmoreoften]

19. Oh please. There are tons of genuine revolutionaries in Libya fighting for this.

But the NFSL are a CIA-backed group positioned to give us whatever we need in the region. There is no demeaning of the revolutionaries on the ground to point out that we have people on the inside who we use to spin this to our advantage.

[joshcryer]

21. It is demeaning to say that the revolutionaries don't want a NFZ and that it's some CIA...

...backed meme. It's not. The CIA has nothing to do with the revolutionaries.

[readmoreoften]

26. It's also demeaning then to say that the revolutionaries who DON'T want a no-fly zone are irrelevant

It's not a meme. It's an absolute fact that the National Front for the Salvation of Libya are CIA-backed.

[joshcryer]

27. The revolutionaries who don't want a NFZ are fine, but they have a NFZ now.

They are not irrelevant, but clearly they didn't represent the situation on the ground. Gaddafi about to raze Benghazi, etc.

[jbnow]

25. PBS and BBC reporters probably don't speak to only CIA backed

groups and they have been reporting the rebels have been disappointed at the lack of help from US and west. They've had lots of reports on conversations they've had clearly saying our help was more than welcome. They reported women marching carrying signs asking where we were

You think their pride or dislike for us would make them prefer to keep losing ground, face slaughter?
Of course they'd resent a take over

[readmoreoften]

28. Of course its mixed. Some people want intervention. Many don't.

There is no full knowledge of what people on the ground want in the end. Many revolutionaries DON'T want intervention, that is certain. It all boils down to how much you trust the track record of UN forces and how likely you think this is to remain at a simple "no-fly zone".

It has nothing to do with "pride." They don't trust us. And for good reason.

[joshcryer]

29. I highly doubt those who don't are representitive of anyone who is in the line of fire.

The revolutionaries lost 6 cities in 3 days because Gaddafi razed them with arty, tanks, and jets. Thousands were killed.

[readmoreoften]

32. Well okay, ignore the article then and just speculate and make things up.

You'll get your military intervention regardless. So let's see what happens.

[joshcryer]

34. We sure will. And most of you decrying it will not give a shit.

You'll go back to ignoring the problems in Libya just as you did the past 3 weeks.

[readmoreoften]

38. Yawn. Empty accusation.

I'll forget more in my sleep about Libya than you know now. I'll be defending the Libyan rebels next year when you're denying the US has plans for a base there.

[oberliner]

10. Libyan Rebels Step Up Call For No-Fly Zone

From March 11:

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/11/134448292/Libya-Update

From March 9:

Rebel leader calls for 'immediate action' on no-fly zone

The head of the interim government in eastern Libya pleaded Wednesday for the international community to move quickly to impose a no-fly zone over Libya, declaring that any delay would result in more casualties.

"It has to be immediate action," Mustafa Abdul-Jalil told CNN in an exclusive interview in this eastern opposition stronghold. "The longer the situation carries on, the more blood is shed. That's the message that we want to send to the international community. They have to live up to their responsibility with regards to this."


http://articles.cnn.com/2011-03-09/world/libya.civil.war_1_libyan-leader-moammar-gadhafi-ras-lanuf-libyan-people?_s=PM:WORLD

[readmoreoften]

12. Hunh? These people quoted are not all in Canada....

:crazy:

[oberliner]

22. What does that have to do with anything?

I'm not sure I understand the significance of Canada here.

[readmoreoften]

31. Sorry, wrong reply area.

[Puregonzo1188]

13. This isn't about the Libyan people. It's about capitalism and hegemony.

It's very sad that there are people so cynical that they are wiling to exploit genuine humanitarian emergencies in order to advance their own agendas.

[readmoreoften]

18. +1

[joshcryer]

14. The UN resolution expressly forbids troops on the ground. We will not violate it.

[readmoreoften]

17. Well, if you say so. You're the anarchist.

[joshcryer]

23. If only the anarchists were able to help revolutionaries to the extent that is needed...

...we'd have intervened weeks ago.

[readmoreoften]

30. I just find it ironic that an anarchist is calling for a state apparatus--

an imperialist apparatus--like the UN to fight for "the people". Your position betrays every known position of anarchism. As far as I know, there are no international anarchist organizations who could intervene because anarchists don't really have organizations. There are revolutionary socialist organizations on the ground and around Libya and the region and I know they're helping all they can. Certainly if the left were in better shape, then we wouldn't need to cry out for military intervention at all.

[joshcryer]

33. Anarchists can have a variety of opinions, even those which may be counterintuitive.

I support the Libyans above all and they have asked for a NFZ. If there existed an anarchist conglomerate with defensive technology they would've helped the Libyans weeks ago.

[readmoreoften]

37. Nope. No anarchists approve of the state. That's the point of anarchism. It's its only real belief.

There could never be such a thing as "an anarchist conglomerate with defensive technology" because most anarchists (other than syndicalists) can't reach consensus on taking out the garbage. Although I could imagine anarchists with shotguns or something. But, hey, sally forth. :shrug:

[Alamuti Lotus]

35. Yeah, that's floored me the whole time too....

anarchists for the worship and abuse of State power!...wow. Somewhere in Bern, Bakunin's decayed skeleton just threw up.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hardcover]

36. I still think the US should stay out of it

The Arab League should take care of it. No matter what the US does, the Islamic world will find fault in it and blame us for anything and everything. They even want to blame us when we don't get involved.
I support the revolutionaries but I am convinced we will be hated for answering the call for help.