Germany has 42 gigawatts of solar & wind; That's about 42 nuke plants worth.

[grahamhgreen]

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2011/03/german-solar-energy-may-get-a-boost-from-japans-nuclear-disaster

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_output_MW_of_a_nuclear_power_plant

We can get off the dirty fuels of the past if we try.

[truedelphi]

1. Yes, we can.

If as a nation we had the will and the effort, and the politicans we elect to do the right thing weren't in the pocket of the nuclear industry and their lobbyists.

ANyuway I was wondering how much energy Germany has in terms of its alternative efforts.

thank you for psoting this.

[Cetacea]

2. K&R

Thank you.

[ErikJ]

3. 12 Times more Wind Power Potential than used!

Current wind technology deployed in nonenvironmentally protected areas could generate
37,000,000 gigawatt-hours of electricity per year,
according to the new analysis conducted by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory and consulting firm AWS Truewind.

The US currently uses
3,000,000 giga-watt-hours of electricity every year.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/02/better-wind-resource-maps/

[upi402]

4. Pretty words are all we get

k/r
We are soooo screwn. RWers use France as justification for our return to nuclear, even now.

[kristopher]

5. Not really. It is probably about 10-15GW delivered

There are two ways to measure. The 42GW is the nameplate capacity - a standard way of looking at the machines from a design engineer's point of view.

But if you want to look at it is XX "plant's worth" you need to look at actual output.

That is here is the story:
"nuclear energy accounts for 23 percent of German energy and renewable energies 16 percent"


So 25GW of wind and 17GW of solar generated 70% of what the 17 nuclear plants did.


This is the best quote; because it is seldom realized that nuclear "crowds out" renewables. Glad he said it.

"If the federal government is really serious about an accelerated development of renewable energy, it must permanently withdraw the lifetime extension of nuclear power plants and not just for three months," said Dietmar Schutz, president of the German Renewable Energy Federation (BEE). "The extension is not a bridge, but a serious obstacle to the necessary restructuring of our energy system."


This is a good article. Thanks.

[OHdem10]

6. Germany also has Nuclear and were planning to expand

the Nuclear. Even in Germany Solar and Wind not enough.

Yes we can but as everything in life,there are trade offs.

Even Natural Gas has some problems.

We will get there but it will take a long time.

[Luminous Animal]

9. Portugal went from 17% to 45% renewable sources to generate electricity in 5 years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/10/science/earth/10portugal.html

[kristopher]

11. For about 13 years Germany has had one of the strongest renewable programs

There is very little to no support for extending the life of the nuclear fleet, and Merkel's right wing government was just trounced in an off cycle election - almost certainly a result of her support of nuclear power.

After this it is unlikely her plan will go forward.

The had no plans to expand their nuclear fleet at all.

"Currently, nuclear energy accounts for 23 percent of German energy and renewable energies 16 percent. Schutz said that renewable energies would be able to cover 47 percent of German energy demand by 2020."

[grahamhgreen]

13. In reality, Germany is closing 7 of it's 17 nukes (link)

"Germany could cover its energy needs without nuclear power by 2017, the research group for the environment ministry has said. It added that by 2050, all the country's energy needs could be covered by renewables.
 
The research group that answers scientific questions for the German environment ministry, the Umweltbundesamt, has calculated that the country could complete its exit from nuclear energy by as early as 2017 and that consumers would not see an appreciable increase in their energy bills.

The German government, in the wake of the nuclear crisis in Japan, ordered the shut-down of the seven oldest of the country's 17 nuclear power plants.

Chancellor Angela Merkel also slapped a three-month moratorium on the government's decision last fall to extend the lives of its nuclear plants, reversing a decision by the previous government to end the country's nuclear program by 2021."

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14919681,00.html


Nuclear power is a nice fantasy, when it meets reality, it results in massive catastrophes that pollute for tens of thousands of years.

[Initech]

7. And according to Doc Brown, how many does it take to travel through time?

[grahamhgreen]

14. ?

[Initech]

24. How can anyone have not seen Back To The Future by this point?

[grahamhgreen]

25. Aw geez

Maybe about two of these?

[suffragette]

8. Agree with that

You might find some of the info in this thread interesting:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x653404

[A HERETIC I AM]

10. "WHAT ABOUT ALL THE BIRDS THAT ARE KILLED??!?!?"

Sorry, but I'm convinced that there is NO electricity generating method that all DU'rs are OK with.

Someone on this board has a problem with wind power because fucking birds fly into windmills.
Likewise, there is some DU'r that has a problem with Solar because solar panels shade the ground and that will affect the natural plants or a turtle or something. Or Hydroelectric because fish can't swim upstream or wave or tidal generation because it will affect migratory fish in the sea.

Buy extra milk, for fucks sake

If nothing else, this website is entertaining.

[grahamhgreen]

12. That's a lie, just like the rest of the RW talking points you mention (link)

http://mediamatters.org/research/201005040009

[pintobean]

20. Did you read the whole post, or just the subject line?

[grahamhgreen]

21. Yes, it's one of those "some people say" arguments Outfoxed exposed on Fox news ( link)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYA9ufivbDw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Shiver]

15. Any birds that do get killed

by flying into A HUGE FUCKING THING they can CLEARLY SEE are probably too dumb to be passing on their genes. Put up wind turbines and let natural selection run its course.

[jacquelope]

16. ARGH!!! Horrible logic!!

Judging animals by human standards is insane!

Birds aren't the only creatures threatened by human-constructed objects.
http://www.audubonmagazine.org/darksideoflight.html

[Shiver]

17. Last I checked, humans are animals.

So I'm judging animals by animal standards. Survival is at the top of the list, and I would think that after however many millions of years of evolution, birds should have learned by now not to fly into things. Natural selection applies to every species - introduce something new into the environment, and you either move away, adapt, or perish.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shiver]

19. Logical points

Except for the calling me a Republican, that is. My environmentalist cred isn't up to snuff, I admit, but wouldn't using wind power be more Earth-friendly than the methods currently utilized? And is there something wrong with natural selection and evolution, which is an aspect of life and nature?

You make a good point about dolphin and tuna, however. I suppose saying anything deserves to perish simply by not being smart enough to not die is a wrong way of thinking about it, and was poor phrasing on my part. Is it natural selection if an external, unnatural element is introduced, such as tuna fishing or wind turbines? One the one hand, humans are a part of nature, and on the other, the tools we use in our own survival are technically not. But then, usage of tools is a characteristic of humanity, and is completely natural for us. An interesting topic of thought.

In truth, I was going for the cheap laugh with my post - yes, I have a slightly morbid sense of humor - and wasn't expecting a debate or anything that would spark the current philosophical musings playing out in my head right now...

[roody]

22. And the sun does not shine on Germany

nearly as much as many places in the US.

[Zorra]

23. Great comparison for helping understand the amount of power generated. nt