Why are sock puppet armies a threat to democracy

[BanzaiBonnie]

and our personal sovereignty?

Because social manipulation has been studied by the military, the marketing industry to the point of being a science. If someone is lying to you about who they are that is unethical, immoral, and just plain wrong, but they are willing to do lie to get what they want.

The best we can do is be aware of our own mind. The thing is, any of us can be fooled, at least for awhile. And by the time we awaken to what is going on, it may be too late. We may have turned some pivotal corner.

In recent years and especially in the last election, we had stealth political candidates who came out of nowhere and no one knew too much about. They sounded sympathetic. They related to the people that elected them. They had a lot of money backing them and once in office, they've now gone to work dismantling our world.

But here, on DU, it's not as obvious who might be a lying snake. They take their time, share their life with you, gain your trust and then... seem so reasonable when they work to get you to see their POV. And our herd instinct is to pay attention when there are a bunch of people we trust turning in a particular direction. Remember the lessons of the red deer that Thom Hartmann has shared many times. The deer decide which watering hole that it's safe to drink from based on the number of deer pointing in that direction. This is instinctual for us too. They are democratic. Once the majority turn that direction, say the 51st deer out of 100, they will all move in that direction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation

According to George K. Simon, successful psychological manipulation primarily involves the manipulator:
concealing aggressive intentions and behaviors.
knowing the psychological vulnerabilities of the victim to determine what tactics are likely to be the most effective.
having a sufficient level of ruthlessness to have no qualms about causing harm to the victim if necessary.
Consequently the manipulation is likely to be covert (relational aggressive or passive aggressive).<2>

[Cirque du So-What]

1. Sock puppet army busy at work on this thread?

After my rec, this thread is still 'underwater.' For the most part, DUers are aware of attempts at psychological manipulation and approve efforts to get out the word on sockpuppetry as a tool for suppression of the truth.

[BanzaiBonnie]

2. Interesting... I can't think of a reason anyone would unrecc

unless they are working as a sock puppet.

Yes, some of us are onto this activity, but there are some newbies around and I thought it might be helpful to let them know this information.

Is there any way to tell how many unreccs?

[Cirque du So-What]

3. AFAIK there's no way to determine number of unrecs

For a brief, shining moment, it showed up as an actual negative number, but a thread 'under water' now merely shows ' Net recommendation: 0 votes.'

[BanzaiBonnie]

4. I heard that unrecc is going away in the new DU

If it is, I'm all for it.

[Matariki]

6. But then couldn't a sock puppet army rec one of their own threads to the greatest page?

influencing opinion in the way the OP mentioned?

[hootinholler]

12. More than that.

Done well enough the entire thread could consist of all opinions pro and con tailored, strawmen set up and taken down, all designed to steer the debate in the intended direction, perhaps to obscure some fact and bury it in mystery or turmoil.

With a few real voices thrown in that can either be ignored or responded to flippantly without damage to the message.

All of that by designing a storyline, choosing the cast from your persona bank, done from a neat and tidy dashboard application. Not much different than one would use in game design.



Look at what Fox News has done with that 30ish% of the population. Now imagine a much more subtle operation...

-Hoot

[BanzaiBonnie]

14. I had a post a couple of weeks ago

where that exact scenario was played out.

Interesting. If you know and understand what to look for, you can watch it happen. Subject of post gets shifted, then flooded by just a couple of characters.

[hootinholler]

15. It is interesting.

How do you detect it? I'm not talking about a couple of characters, I mean a supporting cast as well.

People think this is about trolls. It is not, trolls are humans who feed on stirring controversy. This is much more subtle and dangerous. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x456764">Worthy of serious study.

-Hoot

[BanzaiBonnie]

17. Nevermind...

[hootinholler]

5. I'm relieved that I'm not the only one who see the danger

Perhaps we about it?

-Hoot

[Matariki]

7. The flip side of the danger is communities tearing themselves apart out of suspicion. n/t

[hootinholler]

8. Oh Dear...

I screwed the pooch on that reply.

It was supposed to say: Perhaps we can do something about it.

You are indeed correct about the flip side. There seems to be no downside for those using this, and it is anyone with enough money and interests to protect. It not only delivers your message, but if uncovered it sows distrust and anger among your opponent, very powerful stuff sociologically speaking. The instigator wins both ways.

I haven't gotten any traction yet, but I'll help push this issue, people don't understand what is at stake here.

-Hoot

[Matariki]

16. It's disgusting isn't it?

And it shows the length folks have to go to when the truth isn't on their side.

[BanzaiBonnie]

11. What I propose is to watch who influences your opinion

I am a trusting soul. I trust first, but keep my antenna operating. When challenged as to my position on an issue, I consider long term affects on ALL people. Looking at long term results seems to me the best way to make sure we're all safe when political/societal decisions are made.

If you think, what kind of country do I want this to be, that's where I will come from.

[leftstreet]

9. Meh. The television is a greater threat

The interwebz are interactive

I disagree that "here, on DU, it's not as obvious who might be a lying snake"

DUers are pretty damn sharp. Not much gets past them

[petronius]

10. Not to worry - those tactics are only really dangerous when you dismantle the educational system,

distract the people with a rapid flow of 'shiny objects', provoke fear at all times, and swamp their senses with a flood of triviality...



...oh.

[BanzaiBonnie]

13. Oh... indeed

And I have no doubt that the push is on for bread and circuses.

At this point, many are realizing their bread is threatened. And they're rising up in revolt. Let's continue looking to keep it nonviolent.

[BanzaiBonnie]

18. So hootinholler proposed an interesting direction

hootinholler wrote:

The goal would be to develop a system that can identify ideas that blossom in a widespread manner. Actual ideas that go viral tend more towards a wave than a scatter. One way to visualize it is to think of a large rock versus a shovelful of gravel thrown into water. The rock representing an idea with resonance and the gravel representing cyberturfing.




I love this. The project needs to be very focused because some people began writing about trolls and online predators. While trolls and predators are a problem, there are legal solutions and also others working on those troubling trolls and things. What I began with in the OP is about the military or corporations manipulating public concensus by using many personas to flood discussion groups with propaganda.


One proposal for a name for this project is VirtuWall, the other is BotSpot. Both are good, but BotSpot tells you what it's about.