Libya is NOT about oil

[SpartanDem]

the logic that Iraq has oil, and Libya has oil therefore Libya is like Iraq is simply wrong. Foreign oil companies already have very lucrative oil contracts in that country, Bush lifted oil sanctions against Libya in 2004 despite their past misdeeds.. It would actually be in the oil companies best interest to crush the rebellion and go back to business as usual, they'd much rather deal with devil they know than one they don't. Nor do they make money if their operations are disrupted due to a protracted civil war. You want to argue it's none of our business, or we can't afford it, ok. But no informed person can say this is about oil.








BP is not the only foreign oil company in Libya; U.S. corporations like Exxon Mobil, Occidental Petroleum, Conoco Phillips, Marathon Oil, Hess Corp., and Halliburton all run profitable operations there. European nations are also well represented by Eni SpA (Italy: the largest foreign producer), Total S.A. (France: one of the six largest oil companies in the world), OMV AG (Austria), Repsol YPF SA (Spain’s largest oil company), Royal Dutch Shell (Netherlands), Statoil (Netherlands), BG Group (U.K.), Wintershall (Germany). China’s largest oil producer, CNPC, also drill for oil in Libya. Most if not all foreign companies are shutting down their Libyan operations for the moment. The chief executive for Eni said that his company will cut production “because of difficulty loading the tankers to export the oil,” inconvenient difficulties like Gaddafi’s army mowing down the Libyan people with machine gun fire.

http://art-for-a-change.com/blog/2011/02/libya-bp-lacma.html

[old mark]

1. K&R- You are right, but still seem toi have many unrecs...why?

[leftstreet]

2. Probably more about all this Democracy stuff breaking out

Tunisia, Egypt..

Who knows where it could all lead

[Shagbark Hickory]

3. All the more reason we should not get involved.

[leftstreet]

4. So if it WAS about oil.....

wait, what?

[Shagbark Hickory]

7. Fuck yeah I said it. At least we'd get some fucking oil drilling contracts.

In theory.
We just let these private companies go in and do whatever they want.

[leftstreet]

8. Does the US threaten Ecuador to guarantee the flow of frozen broccoli?

I think it's called trade negotiating for goods and services

And by the way..."At least we'd get some fucking oil drilling contracts" - "we" wouldn't see jack shit. "We" also have private contractors.

[Shagbark Hickory]

12. Invading a country for its resources makes sense to me.

Doesn't mean I'd support it but it's a reason. I think we have to be frank about why military action is taken.

[leftstreet]

14. (omg) Then let's invade Canada and secure their national healthcare

:bounce:

[Shagbark Hickory]

35. Add in their oil and gas and that's a war I could really get behind.

Of course some would say we're already taking both.

We've been taking their doctors (brain drain) and they're our largest supply of oil.
Not really any reason to invade.

[Bluebear]

34. .

[cedric]

37. Non interventionist

Let the populace be suppressed so that business can still continue to make a profit whilst the populace are tortured, have no freedom of expression or opportunity to change the government.

Yep, that dictatorship!

[Shagbark Hickory]

48. Removing Quadaffi will change that how, exactly?

nt

[Uncle Joe]

5. In one sense, I agree, I believe this has more to do with trying to ride current democratic trends

in the Middle East combined with Gaddafi's track record.

The time became ripe for him to pay the price for his previous transgression of blowing up Pan Am 103.

Thanks for the thread, SpartanDem.

[Davis_X_Machina]

6. This is DU...

...simple answers only, please.

No Blood for Oil!

[GSLevel9]

9. teeheee, heeee...

Yeah! roflmmfao.

[JCMach1]

10. It is about the oil- otherwise we would have invaded Cote D'Ivoire already...

[tabatha]

11. yep

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_C%C3%B4te_d%27Ivoire

[NightWatcher]

13. It's about WAR, we make war, sell war, profit from war. Then after the war we sell "security"

Contractors sell weapons to the government, the government rents security contractors. We hire war contractors.

[ReggieVeggie]

15. well, it's not about the Libyan people

there are plenty of other repressive dictatorships around the world that we're NOT acting on, so . . . What is it then?

[MedleyMisty]

16. The Libyans are in an active revolution

and asked for help.

I don't doubt that there are many other motivations. I know that the humans who get into power in our society are not motivated by anything good and decent.

But I think helping revolutionaries who have asked for help is a lot different than randomly deciding to go and depose a dictator for people who aren't in an active revolution against said dictator and who haven't asked for help.

[meow mix]

19. trying to talk sense to the "everything is evil" anti-america mob...

i appauld your efforts good luck

[ReggieVeggie]

24. you must not know much about history

The US does NOTHING without economic motivation

[ReggieVeggie]

25. dupe

[Aerows]

36. Oh LOOK! It's an "anti-war" is "Anti-American" poster

Where have I seen those before? I guess we are all traitors, too, are you going to play that card, as well?

I absolutely hope that you and all of the "experts" are correct and this is over quickly. History tells me that it will not be, and we will either get roped into a quagmire in Libya, or in another country, such as Iran, because they "attack" us. This is a great opportunity for a false flag, you know.

[ReggieVeggie]

20. The US doesn't do anything because people ask

so, again, the motivation has nothing to do with Libyan revolutionaries asking for our help.

[cedric]

40. Well said

too many on this board seem to support repressive regimes.

[DJ13]

17. +1

If there was a pattern of helping repressed people in countries with no oil then I might agree with the OP, but there is always oil in these countries.

[SpartanDem]

21. Do Kosovo and Somolia ring a bell

[SpartanDem]

18. Are their popular uprisings this advanced?

No. Have they asked for our intervetion? Here we have a defined opposition asking for the world help would you rather we ingore them and let be them be slaughtered.

[Davis_X_Machina]

22. Oil makes people crazy -- on both sides -- or 'sides'. n/t

[cedric]

42. All the more reason

to wean ourselves off the drug. Then again some of us have been saying that since the 1970's and it's taken to now before most have even realised that the stuff's finite.

[ReggieVeggie]

23. You act as if Bush did nothng wrong

but I bet you wouldn't agree with that

The US does not drop one bomb because anybody asks for hel. The motivation here has some other factor determining it. Not about oil? Fine. WHat is it then? And, please, stop with this nonsense about advanced uprisings, etc. The Egyptians were starting to be beaten and killed and Biden said he wouldn't call Mubarak a dictator.

[Davis_X_Machina]

28. You've got...

...legal sanction from the UNSC, backed (albeit mostly symbolically) by the Arab League (the relevant regional body) and the operation has France and Britain as its main supporters, and the US coming round late, and reluctantly.

The rebels at one point held half the country. And prior to the rising it was Qadaffi was making nice to the multinationals -- including China, who abstained instead of vetoing the UNSC resolution -- and pumping oil like Billy-be-damned. If the oil companies run the world, we go in on the opposite side from where we find ourselves.

[ReggieVeggie]

33. The UNSC is the US and Israel

just about every other country does what it's told

And, again, is this internal to Libya? Do we simply get to decide when a sovereign country is to be attacked? This is the justification Bush used.

[Davis_X_Machina]

38. China and Russia...

..of course, are in Israel's pocket. Which is why they didn't veto the UNSC resolution. With the Arab League, of course, also a Zionist tool.

I can understand a principled objection to any international collective use of force, but this is just special pleading.

[tekisui]

29. That's not entirely accurate. In Egypt, the army was on the side

of the people. Mubarak had no one willing to kill at the level that Gaddafi has. Gaddafi has a significant number of loyalists in the military and has been bringing in mercenaries to kill his people.

There are distinctions between the two.

[ReggieVeggie]

32. I doubt the army was on the side of the people

maybe they just didn't like Mubarak

Still doesn't justify declaring war on Libya (without actually declaring war.)

[Zynx]

41. Are any currently openly saying that they will slaughter everyone who opposes them like

Gaddafi is?

[Warren Stupidity]

26. Which explains our interventions in Yemen, Sudan, Cote D'Ivoire ...

oh wait.

[Davis_X_Machina]

30. Sudan's a big oil country...

...which is why China slow-walks any UN action there.

[Aerows]

39. South Sudan, yes

North Sudan, no.

[sabrina 1]

Don't forget Bahrain where the people are also in revolt and

asking for help and being mowed down by their government, one of our close allies.

And don't forget Iraq, although no one can be blamed for not knowing what is going on there where peaceful protesters are also being mowed down by our puppet government, also asking for help.

I'm sure our intervention in Libya is purely humanitarian though, just as it was in Iraq! :eyes:

Libyan people demanded that there be 'no foreign troops on the ground'. All they asked for was a NFZ.

But, today, it appears that 'it may be necessary to put boots on the ground' after all. Once they do that, they will not leave.

[cedric]

43. Just because the west is not intervening in all those

countries does not mean that supporting those fighting repression in one country is wrong

[Amonester]

27. ALL "new" old wars will be for OIL.

Unless we all go back living in the woods, there will be more wars for oil, not less.

We're passed the peek-oil point.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dappleganger]

44. Libya is about feeding the war machine.

It's as lucrative as the oil business.

[robdogbucky]

46. And to add some spice

The US military is the biggest single consumer of oil in the world.

Half of that oil is used up transporting the other half.

How bout that for a double-dip?

Cool, huh?

[Dappleganger]

49. Well said.

Double-dip for them, DF for us. :(

[robdogbucky]

45. I'm an informed citizen and this is about oil

It is about oil and payback to our allies that buy Libya's

Those being specifically UK, France, Germany and Italy.


Libya
PRODUCTION AND LOST OUTPUT
* OPEC member Libya is the world's 17th-largest oil producer, third-largest producer in
Africa and holds the continent's largest crude oil reserves. It normally pumps around 1.6
million bpd, 85 percent of which is exported to Europe.
* Output is normally equivalent to about 2 percent of global consumption, and unrest has
cut it to about 500,000 bpd as many foreign and local workers have left the fields.


CUSTOMERS
* About 32 percent of Libya's oil goes to Italy, 14 percent to Germany, 10 percent to France and China and 5 percent to the United States.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/14/libya-oil-idUSLDE72D20V20110314



"This is a list of countries by oil production mostly based on CIA World Factbook data.<1>

Note that oil production refers to barrels of crude oil extracted each day from drilling operations. This should not be confused with oil supply, which often refers to market availability of multiple types of petroleum and non-petroleum fuels (such as natural gas and bio-ethanol), as well as refinery gains and extraction from man-made petroleum reserves."

2 Saudi Arabia 9,764,000 2009

3 United States 9,056,000 2009

10 Iraq 2,420,000 2009

12 Algeria 2,180,000 2008

13 Venezuela 2,175,000 2008

18 Libya 1,550,000 2008

28 Egypt 630,600 2008

36 Yemen 300,100 2008

46 Japan 133,100 2008

52 Tunisia 86,930 2008

62 Bahrain 48,520 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_p...

The columns to the right represent bbl/day and date of latest information.

I just pulled those of current interest. Russia is #1. Mexico is #8.



If it weren't about oil, why not jump to the defense of Coite de Ivoire? Yemen? Bahrain? etc. etc. etc.

I have heard that people in those countries have not asked for our help, like in Libya. How do they/we know that?

If I was busy trying to survive after the Saudis were called in their troops massacred my people like just happened in Bahrain after the Gates visit, and the Yemeni ruler similarly called in his mercs and avid followers to open fire on unarmed protestors, and to fire on unarmed women protestors like in The Ivory Coast, I doubt I would have time to collar an AlJazeera reporter and say, "Tell the US they have to help us or else!"

I would be trying to stay alive and dodge the weapons the US supplied to the local dictator, eh?

The arrogance of some is astounding.

[Davis_X_Machina]

47. Bahrain is not an oil state?

[Distant Observer]

50. Has some OIL. And already controled by Western Interests.

Bahrain and Yemen have cooperative pro-Western Governments. The repression in these countries far exceeds
that in Libya.

[Davis_X_Machina]

51. So I guess the argument is...

...that we're not bigfooting enough national liberation movements? Or is it that we're bigfooting the wrong national liberation movements?

[SpartanDem]

53. Can you read ? Western oil companies are already in Libya

[EFerrari]

54. So, your logic is that Western oil companies are already in Libya

so this is no about oil

Seriously?

[SpartanDem]

55. Yes, seriously

unlike Iraq they aleady have access to the oil they were making billions with Gaddafi in power. They have no reason to rock to boat and face dealing with an unknown quantity in the rebels

[EFerrari]

56. They don't want to rock the boat, they want to secure it.

Well, I hope the usual suspects make their millions from this little excursion, and that we don't kill too many people. That's about all a citizen can hope for any more.

[Xicano]

52. You're forgetting one important aspect here.

The "Petro-dollar" system. Oil producing nations have been considering dumping the U.S. dollar as the currency used for buying oil on the market. If that happens I don't have to tell you how bad that would be for our economy since the petro-dollar system significantly artificially inflates the value of the U.S. dollar. Therefor its just as likely this is happening as a way to secure the status quo as it being just mere coincidence.

The demise of the dollar

In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.

The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.

---

The decline of American economic power linked to the current global recession was implicitly acknowledged by the World Bank president Robert Zoellick. "One of the legacies of this crisis may be a recognition of changed economic power relations," he said in Istanbul ahead of meetings this week of the IMF and World Bank. But it is China's extraordinary new financial power – along with past anger among oil-producing and oil-consuming nations at America's power to interfere in the international financial system – which has prompted the latest discussions involving the Gulf states.

Brazil has shown interest in collaborating in non-dollar oil payments, along with India. Indeed, China appears to be the most enthusiastic of all the financial powers involved, not least because of its enormous trade with the Middle East.

China imports 60 per cent of its oil, much of it from the Middle East and Russia. The Chinese have oil production concessions in Iraq – blocked by the US until this year – and since 2008 have held an $8bn agreement with Iran to develop refining capacity and gas resources. China has oil deals in Sudan (where it has substituted for US interests) and has been negotiating for oil concessions with Libya, where all such contracts are joint ventures.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html

OPEC may tie oil to basket of currencies

JOHN DIMSDALE: The global price of oil is set in U.S. dollars. But when the dollar's value is low -- as it is now -- oil producers have to jack up their prices to earn the same profit.

When the dollar fell dramatically two years ago, the spike in oil prices made more costly alternative fuels more competitive, says oil analyst Stephen Schork.

STEPHEN SCHORK: So not only was OPEC not receiving the full bang for its buck, but they were also seeing the potential for their market share erode.

So OPEC ministers are resurrecting an old idea -- tying oil to a basket of currencies, including the euro, instead.

Houston oil industry consultant Larry Carl says the dollar is losing its dominance.

LARRY CARL: When we look at the way the rest of the economies around the globe are recovering and we're falling behind, we have to start getting used to the fact that we're not going to lead right here, right now.


http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/10/14/am-opec-may-tie-oil-to-basket-of-currencies/

[AntiFascist]

57. The fact that all of these oil companies have interests in Libya...

is precisely what gives Gaddafi so much power. The whole point of these rebellions in the Middle East is to stop the accumulation and abuse of wealth by the few who hold all of the power. Of course is it in the best interests of the oil companies to continue dealing with the few who hold the power, but when the regime becomes crazy, or old, or unable to control its people, then the oil companies will be in favor of a powerful military effort to bring about regime change, and ensure that the new regime continues to enable a select few to control the oil resources.

[AntiFascist]

58. The similarities between Iraq and Libya are worth pointing out...

Saddam Hussein tested chemical weapons on his own people and this was used as one of the reasons for taking him out. However, if you read Forbes magazine prior to the invasion you might learn that Saddam was also leaving several of his larger oil fields to decay, and if we were to invade Iraq, then these oil fields could be improved and it would have a beneficial effect on our oil supplies.

Libya also has substantial oil supplies and taking a crazed leader out of power is probably also beneficial to the oil companies in the long run. Whether you consider this to be right or wrong, I'm just pointing out our motivations.

[AngryAmish]

59. K-dafi has said he will destroy all oil production equipment

We are trying to kill him.

Therefore, the free flow of oil at market prices has nothing to do with this conflict.

Prove me wrong.

[TorchTheWitch]

60. It's about oil

Take a look at the countries that pushed for military intervention. Nearly all of Libya's oil exports go to European countries. Here's why France was one of the countries fiercely pushing for military intervention...

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/02/22/france-oil-libya-idINLDE71L2BI20110222
PARIS | Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:44pm IST

PARIS Feb 22 (Reuters) - France, which imports about 15 percent of its crude oil needs from Libya, will quickly have to start using its strategic stocks if supply from the country is stopped, the president of the French oil industry union said.

A growing revolt against Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has already prompted some oil companies to stop production in the country and others to bring staff home. "It would be very, very worrying if there were no longer any crude oil imports from Libya," Jean-Louis Schilansky said.

"We will tap strategic stocks quite quickly," he said, adding that he was not aware of any disruption so far to physical supplies.

-----------

Britain was another country pushing fiercely for military intervention...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8369240/Libya-British-plans-to-strip-Gaddafi-of-oil-revenue.html
Sunday 20 March 2011
Libya: British plans to strip Gaddafi of oil revenue
Britain is studying plans to take billions of dollars of Libyan oil revenues away from Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's regime and place them under the control of the United Nations.


http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Resource-Wars/2009/08/14/Britain-eyes-Libyan-oil/UPI-54261250271038/
Britain eyes Libyan oil
Published: Aug. 14, 2009 at 1:30 PM

LONDON, Aug. 14 (UPI) -- With Britain running out of energy and Tripoli needing cash, British energy giants are scrambling to exploit vast unexplored natural resource fields in Libya.

British energy giants Royal Dutch Shell, BG and BP signed preliminary deals with the Libyan government to help develop the national oil and gas sector. BP announced a $900 million deal with Tripoli in 2007, while Shell moved on a similar deal in 2004 when the U.N. Security Council lifted weapons-related sanctions.

-----------------

Italy has dropped it's friendship agreement with Libya and backed the UN agreement once they figured out Gaddafi didn't have sufficient control. Italy's whole economy is dependent on a stable Libya and gets nearly a quarter of it's crude from Libya...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/world/europe/06italy.html
Turmoil in Libya Poses Threat to Italy’s Economy
By RACHEL DONADIO
Published: March 5, 2011

But Italy — which gets nearly a quarter of its crude oil and 10 percent of its natural gas from Libya, has billions of dollars in lucrative contracts with the Libyan government and receives billions more in Libyan investments — has held back on freezing any assets. Officials say they are waiting for a “coordinated” response from the European Union about whether the measure applies to Libyan sovereign funds, a ruling that Italy said it hoped would come as soon as next week.

With Libya in turmoil and Colonel Qaddafi clinging to power, no country has more at stake than Italy, which finds itself in its most complicated diplomatic position in decades, pulled between its commitment to NATO and human rights and its scramble to protect its investments in a country that has once again become a pariah.

------------


http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23605
"Operation Libya" and the Battle for Oil: Redrawing the Map of Africa

by Prof Michel Chossudovsky
March 9, 2011

The geopolitical and economic implications of a US-NATO led military intervention directed against Libya are far-reaching.

Libya is among the World's largest oil economies with approximately 3.5% of global oil reserves, more than twice those of the US.

"Operation Libya" is part of the broader military agenda in the Middle East and Central Asia which consists in gaining control and corporate ownership over more than sixty percent of the world's reserves of oil and natural gas, including oil and gas pipeline routes.


-------------------

http://arabnews.com/economy/article290952.ece
Libya oil chief: Output down 50 percent

By TAREK EL-TABLAWY | ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: Feb 28, 2011 21:41 Updated: Feb 28, 2011 21:41

CAIRO: Libya’s oil chief said on Monday that production had been cut by around 50 percent, and argued it was “safe” for foreign oil workers to return after a mass exodus sparked by Muammar Qaddafi’s violent campaign to retain control of the country.

The assurances by Shukri Ghanem, the head of the state-run National Oil Company. and Libya’s de facto oil minister, came as uncertainty swirled about the state of the OPEC member’s production and who was actually in control of the brunt of the nation’s oil. Libya sits atop Africa’s largest proven reserves.

The country is the only OPEC member so far seriously affected by the protests in the Arab world, and unrest there has sent shudders through global oil markets.




Yeah, it's about oil and the billions of dollars connected to it.

[HR_Pufnstuf]

61. ..and Weapons

.

[StarburstClock]

62. I'm an informed person and I do say confidently it is partly due to oil

The big speculators in the U.S. who happen to also be some of the POTUS's top advisers make billions on oil speculation and it's much easier to control oil speculation if you can control the propaganda that supports it.

It's not about supply or demand or a global market or the actual commodity of oil, at least not to those who are in the U.S. government; it's about being able to manipulate the markets. Your post points out that it is not about the oil companies and you're correct. It is about the perception of Libya's oil and the ability to manipulate that perception.

[TheCanadianLiberal]

63. No it's about plutonium!

I running our and my delorean needs more. This is not about oil, power or rights it's about time travel!