Libya - the nuclear industry's wag the dog? nt

[kristopher]

[plumbob]

1. Would not surprise me a bit

But then, I'm old and my judgment is clouded by decades of experience.

[kristopher]

20. Since so many others are taking the CON, I'll take the PRO side of the debate

The energy war between nuclear and renewables is worth about 1 quadrillion dollars. Just to get a sense of the scale of the value of the post-fossil, I did a quick calculation. There will always be a mix of inputs besides electricity, but going forward, the elctric share of the market is going to rise as it moves into the transportation sector via battery electric EVs so this is just to show what is at stake. It isn't "winner take all, but the winner will get the lion's share of the one-plus quadrillion.

The new nuclear plants have a design life of 60 years and, it is claimed, will last another 40 years with refurbishing. With that in mind I selected 100 years as the basis of a back-of-the-envelope calculation where I took today's total global energy use and converted it to be measured in kilowatts. I then assigned today's average rate of electricity in the US as the price per unit (KWH).

Everywhere where is a nuclear industry it is a state/corpororate entity. The governments, and the power structure that inflates them from within, of France, Russia, Korea, and Japan are heavily, heavily invested in nuclear power. They have divided the global market between them and corporations with home bases in the nuclear states of the US, Germany and England.

Nuclear power is a type of solution that fits the right-wing, corporate worldview that DOES use war to achieve both direct and indirect economic goals.

All policy moves, including war, are a product of a coalition of interests that band together to form a majority, so there is room for both support of military action based on genuine concern for the Libyan people's struggle to shake of a dictator, and a power block motivated by financial interests.

Of course, there is no way to "prove" cultural dynamics like this are responsible for a decision to go to war, but to not be aware of the dynamics of power that are influencing our culture is probably a bad thing for the basic concept behind a democratic form of government.

The nuclear industry has leaders. They have over the years spent literally tens of billions of mostly taxpayer dollars waging a multifaceted campaign to position nuclear power as the "energy of choice" for the next 100 years.

I certainly think the public reaction to Fukushima is, in their minds, sufficient threat that they would throw their weight behind ANY coalition advocating ANY act that is not a threat to their interests and that offered the potential for shifting the focus away from discussion of what is threatening them.

The attack on Libya by France and the US has wiped Fukushima from the media screens and replaced it with a mini-shock and awe.

[tabatha]

2. Oh, jeez.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

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[GKirk]

5. Purty much

what I was thinking.

[Bluerthanblue]

9. agreed- but now, I have to wonder

what would have been said here if DU had existed in the 90's.

Maybe it would have been similar.

We are all just people- even if we do call ourselves Democrats- and claim to be different that "them".

This place continues to teach me, and make me think. Even when the lessons are ugly ones.

:hi:

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[Maru Kitteh]

19. You know, I didn't believe in the effects of the "supermoon" but now I think it

has a significant effect on the tides of STUPID.


How high's the water, Mama?
Three feet high and risin'
How high's the water, Papa?
She said, "It's three feet high and risin'"

Well, the hives are gone, I've lost my bees
The chickens are sleepin' in the willow trees
Cow's in water up past her knees
Three feet high and risin'



. . . it is gettin' DEEP in here! :silly:

[WilliamPitt]

4. (facepalm)

Oy vey.

[kristopher]

22. ???

See post 20. it would be nice if the con side address the reality of policy and power with something of substance and you reason well.

[Shagbark Hickory]

6. Nah. I don't think so. Cuz the nuke is gonna blow soon.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[JBoy]

8. Yes, the nuclear industry started staging this whole Arab rebellion thing

in anticipation of an upcoming Earthquake/Tsunami-induced nuclear power plant disaster.

Stupidest thing I've read on DU in about a month.

[Maru Kitteh]

31. A month? You must not have time to stop by too often. It is pretty spectacular though. n/t

[RandySF]

10. Believe it or not...

Sometimes simultaneous events occur independent of each other.

[Motown_Johnny]

11. it took longer than 8 days to get China and Russia to abstain

in the UN security council vote so this could be done, and the earthquake was only 8 days ago.

[MineralMan]

12. Cool. You have it all figured out, I see.

Oh, wait...

[LAGC]

13. You're really obsessed with the "nuclear industry", aren't you?

Despite what you may have read, they aren't out to get everyone.

They just want to make a few bucks providing people with service that they need.

Not everything is a conspiracy, you know...

[petronius]

15. No, but why worry about it? If the nuclear industry was that powerful there's nothing

anyone could do to stop them, anyway. :shrug:

Now pipe down and eat your lunch - your Plutoni-Yums are drying out...

[lonestarnot]

18. bbbbwwwwwwa aha ha ha ha ha aha ha ROFLMAO I fucking love DU!

:toast:

[Maru Kitteh]

23. :-) n/t

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

17. Of course.

Do tell me how much they paid that Tunisian man to set himself on fire.

It would be so wonderful to be assured that everything was in SOMEBODY's control and therefore manageable by some human agency. Rather than the snowballing Murphy's Law playing out in our lives.

[Distant Observer]

21. Western Interest surely used the "protest" movements to grab a couple trillion of Oil and Gas

There is no other explanation for the orchestrated propaganda campaign and the
manner in which the opposition was quickly armed, trained and goaded into the
horrible civil war we have witnessed.

[SpartanDem]

24. Yeah the world merely imagined protesters in Libya being shot

[Maru Kitteh]

25. Who knows how many unemployed Libyan actors were employed by the nuclear industry

to look dead, er uh, before the earthquake, uh to distract from the nuclear plant damaged by the tsunami that hadn't happened yet.....

How does this work again???

:silly:

[kristopher]

26. That doesn't refute corporate pressure to make this attack.

The energy war between nuclear and renewables is worth about 1 quadrillion dollars. Just to get a sense of the scale of the value of the post-fossil, I did a quick calculation. There will always be a mix of inputs besides electricity, but going forward, the elctric share of the market is going to rise as it moves into the transportation sector via battery electric EVs so this is just to show what is at stake. It isn't "winner take all, but the winner will get the lion's share of the one-plus quadrillion.

The new nuclear plants have a design life of 60 years and, it is claimed, will last another 40 years with refurbishing. With that in mind I selected 100 years as the basis of a back-of-the-envelope calculation where I took today's total global energy use and converted it to be measured in kilowatts. I then assigned today's average rate of electricity in the US as the price per unit (KWH).

Everywhere where is a nuclear industry it is a state/corpororate entity. The governments, and the power structure that inflates them from within, of France, Russia, Korea, and Japan are heavily, heavily invested in nuclear power. They have divided the global market between them and corporations with home bases in the nuclear states of the US, Germany and England.

Nuclear power is a type of solution that fits the right-wing, corporate worldview that DOES use war to achieve both direct and indirect economic goals.

All policy moves, including war, are a product of a coalition of interests that band together to form a majority, so there is room for both support of military action based on genuine concern for the Libyan people's struggle to shake of a dictator, and a power block motivated by financial interests.

Of course, there is no way to "prove" cultural dynamics like this are responsible for a decision to go to war, but to not be aware of the dynamics of power that are influencing our culture is probably a bad thing for the basic concept behind a democratic form of government.

The nuclear industry has leaders. They have over the years spent literally tens of billions of mostly taxpayer dollars waging a multifaceted campaign to position nuclear power as the "energy of choice" for the next 100 years.

I certainly think the public reaction to Fukushima is, in their minds, sufficient threat that they would throw their weight behind ANY coalition advocating ANY act that is not a threat to their interests and that offered the potential for shifting the focus away from discussion of what is threatening them.

The attack on Libya by France and the US has wiped Fukushima from the media screens and replaced it with a mini-shock and awe.

[GKirk]

29. Really?

"The attack on Libya by France and the US has wiped Fukushima from the media screens and replaced it with a mini-shock and awe."

Really!?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. Jesus Jumping Christ on a trailer hitch.

[Maru Kitteh]

28. Oh damn, I really almost DID shoot Pepsi out my nose. n/t

[Codeine]

30. best *facepalm* yet! nt