To those opposed to the US participating in the no-fly zone in Libya...

[Gman]

would you stand by and watch someone get murdered because you think you shouldn't get involved? Would you let a child get beaten? Would you let a race of people get murdered by the millions in the name of racial cleansing?

There are just uses of force. They are to protect and defend. Force is never to be used for aggression. Iraq was not a just war. Afghanistan ceased to be a just war when Bush let OBL go at Tora Bora. Libya is not the same thing.

Attacking Libya right now is the right thing to do.

[William769]

1. K&R.

Very well put.

[Davis_X_Machina]

2. I'm proud...

...to stand with a left that, on the basis of the last couple days, would have vetoed US participation in the multi-national naval squadron sent to West Africa for the suppression of the slave trade, would have mildly opposed US entry into the League of Nations—only mildly, because it was toothless — opposed ratification of the UN Charter — more strenuously, because the UN is only mostly toothless — and have endorsed Bob Taft over Eisenhower and Truman at any given point in the 1950’s, because of his iron determination to use US forces only in defense of the national territory.

Which gives one pause.

[LWolf]

3. I don't support any military action while the economy is

being used to gut public services in this country. I don't support any military action used to bankrupt this nation so that those cuts can be promoted as necessary because we have to fund wars.

I don't support military action as a tool of international relations.

I support military action when we are directly attacked, to defend our own nation.

I support assisting the UN when the UN determines that there is a need based on humanitarian reasons. In that case, we can pull all of our troops out of the corrupt, bogus "war on terror." Then we'll have a small force available to assist the UN if necessary.

[TomClash]

4. So you support an invasion of Bahrain

To prevent the slaughter of the protesters there by Saudi and Government forces?

[malaise]

7. or Israel to protect the

Palestinians?

[TomClash]

14. How dare you make such a comparison?

Israel is sacred and must never be questioned let alone attacked. It's our friend! :sarcasm:

[Fuzz]

5. There is too much hypocrisy in our foreign policy to defend this action in that way.

[Raksha]

6. K & R - Even though I know my rec will be cancelled out

by the false equivalence crowd. I agree with you that there are just uses of force, and this is one of them.

[Gman]

25. I get false equivalents by the dozens when I post stuff like this

I just shake my head.

[cali]

8. that's spurious. I'm sorry but I can't support it.

Why Libya and not Bahrain? Why not Darfur which really was a genocide?

[Critters2]

11. +1 nt

[Gman]

27. Darfur would have been a just use of force

unfortunately it happened for the most part under Bush which meant since people in Darfur are Black and poor, intervention was a non-starter.

[Frustratedlady]

9. I agree. Get it done and get out. n/t

[Prometheus Bound]

21. That's always the plan. But in Iraq and Afghanistan...

[Gman]

28. Mega-Beyond false equivalents

[Prometheus Bound]

31. Rumsfeld on Iraq invasion: "weeks, not months"

[Gman]

35. Ummm... he hasn't been around in what?....

6 years?

[Prometheus Bound]

36. Yikes, you sure missed the point!

[Gman]

40. No, the point is this is another time and day

and Rumsfeld isn't around. What he said in that completely different time is irrelevant to now.

[Prometheus Bound]

32. Duration of Iraq no-fly zone: 1991-2003

[dkf]

23. Get out? Yeah sure. We have such a great history of getting out of wars right?

Sounds like the cakewalk in Iraq.

[EFerrari]

10. We can't sit back and let people die, we have to bomb them.

Nice logic there.

[Critters2]

12. !

:rofl:

[indepat]

17. Surely now there will be no collateral damage from just firing a hundred or so very

smart missiles into populated areas. :patriot:

[EFerrari]

18. Last time I looked, those things only take out wedding parties and funerals.

But maybe this time will be different. Yeah, right.

[jacquelope]

22. Well said! LOL! n/t

.

[gratuitous]

13. No it's not

But, as usual, getting in is easy, and there are always all the best reasons in the world to do so. Let us know when you ship out to fight your just war. I'll be the one putting the finishing touches on a shroud.

[gateley]

15. Don't bother, Gman. We won't change their minds, they won't change

ours. We just need to accept that and ignore the threads we know will upset us.

I agree this is a different situation, but others don't see it that way and that's their opinion which is just as valid as ours. :shrug:

Hoping for the best! :grouphug:

[Gman]

29. And we criticize the right for only seeing black and white

I see it around here way too much among people that should know better.

[gateley]

34. Yeah, I guess it's just a personality thing maybe. I'm almost too far the other way,

seeing both sides and not being able to take a firm stand! But I'd rather be that way than be so rigid -- I think that would be an awfully constricting way to live. :hi:

[Tatiana]

16. I've heard this same logic applied to the Philippines, to Vietnam, to Korea, to Iraq....

American foreign policy is hypocritical at best and we usually end up leaving a wake of turmoil due to our interventions.

If France and the UK wanted tactical or strategic support, fine... but now we're bombing and any civilians killed will remember the bombs that had the name of the United States on them.

[EFerrari]

19. The weapons repressive regimes are using all over the Middle East

to quash or kill dissent have our name on them.

The tanks in Tahrir Square were our property.

The way to make this better can't possibly be more of the same inflicted on the people.

[Ringo-san]

20. So going into Iraq was good because we saved all those Kurds

That is a contortion of a world class order. Which country do we fly into with our red flowing cape next?

[TBF]

24. It is our job now to police the world? Are you interested in

folks who are oppressed in ANY country, or just the ones who have natural resources we would like to plunder?

[DainBramaged]

26. And when the Repukes shut the government down because we didn't cut social spending

are you going to get involved?

[DainBramaged]

30. Hmmm, I can name a few countries we let go to shit......

[ixion]

33. Military solutions never work

some day maybe we'll get smart and learn that.

[Xicano]

37. Would you throw a hand grenade at someone while committing murder?

Fair question.

Also did you call for the attacking of the murderers in Rwanda or Sudan or the many other places where mass killings were happening? No? Why? Perhaps because there was no bandwagon fanclub?

:shrug:

[Union Scribe]

38. Next time just say, "If you oppose war you want babies murdered"

so I don't have to waste time clicking the thread to know you're an illogical chickenhawk.

[Dash87]

39. It's the Libyan's problem. They can defend themselves.

They aren't worth American time or money, or worse, lives.

"Libya is not the same thing."

It is the same thing. It's all for oil. The world doesn't care about the Libyan people. It just wants to bring stability to their government so that the oil keeps flowing.