Honest question: Has Libya targeted nonviolent civilian targets?

[usregimechange]

And if they have not (I really don't know)...

Does a country have the right to attack rebel forces within its country only if it has a sufficiently democratic form of government? Is that the real issue?

[malaise]

1. That is a serious question

Apparently the West can arm rebels to attack the 'legitimate' government and then when the government fights back the rebels will be protected by said West.

None of this makes sense.

[somone]

2. Perfect summary

of what's going on in Libya.

[joshcryer]

8. The protesters took the arms from a police station that was ordered to kill them.

Then the militaries defected and decided to defend the protesters. When a military refuses to follow orders you have to ask big questions and stop trying to place the blame on the protesters. You will not find a topic like this with regards to the secretarian violence in Yemen or Bahrain.

[Distant Observer]

3. I have not seen any INDEPENDENT evidence

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Yes, ambulances for example

and they have raped people before cutting feet and putting a bullet in head.

His forces have not bee precisely kind.

Hospitals lost the ability to treat people.

So the claim that he has gone to war on his people is real.

Why my very nuanced view is... if this is even 80% about humanitarian... sure I wil reluctantly support this... alas I know there is more than just humanitarian.

Oh and I forgot mercs have shot people willy nilly in the streets.

[usregimechange]

5. Have any sources/links on that?

Thanks...

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Al Jazera has been posting this on their blog

they are the least bad source.

THere is also a long history of Qadaffi having issues in the arab world.

Oh and yes the ICRC pulled out of Benghazi last night. From what I know the ICRC just does not pull out of an active warzone.

That said, why the qualifiers... if this is even 80% humanitarian. I am a world class cynic and suspect this is the very valid (hey more than the WMDs) excuse.

[meow mix]

15. people seem to being ignoring journalists

DU is very ignorant, and on purpose it seems

[Posteritatis]

6. This whole thing started with Qadaffi machine-gunning protestors. (nt)

[joshcryer]

7. Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=libya+protester+killed

[usregimechange]

9. Thanks guys, still forming my opinion on this...

[riverwalker]

16. if you really want to form an opinion

I don't think a thread on DU will do it justice. There are mountains of information available. That is, if you want to know. (No, no links, unless you pay me by the hour.)

[usregimechange]

17. Agreed, still looking it over...

[joshcryer]

18. I think wikipedia is doing a remarkable job showing what happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2011_Libyan_uprising

[bhikkhu]

11. I'm not there, but when Gadhafi promises "no mercy, no pity"

I tend to believe he will do what he says he will do in Benghazi.

600,000 people live there...of course you could say its all anecdotal and unproven, but I think its better to do what can be done now than to do nothing, then argue over satellite pictures of likely mass grave sites later.

[Zoeisright]

20. Exactly.

Thank you.

[Iterate]

12. Plenty enough for a rock solid crimes against humanity case.

What hasn't really happened yet, because it's all happened so quickly, is a finding that would invoke an obligation to act. By the time that would be completed the death toll would be 10x thousands.

[joshcryer]

19. The International Criminal Court is salivating at the prospect. It'd be open and shut.

[Historic NY]

13. Mohammed Nabbous was killed by a sniper.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x693762

and then there is this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x692608

[bobbolink]

14. Does attacking hospitals and killing wounded people fit the bill?

YEs, G has been doing all of that... and using mercs to do so.

The daily threads on the tweets from Libya are very informative. I highly recommend them.

[Puregonzo1188]

21. Yes they did. And this is coming from someone who opposed intervention and the imperialist bullshit

of this government and the other ones collaborating in the no-fly zone.

How about we intervene in Bahrain--or what about a no-fly zone over Gaza?

[Catherina]

22. Yes they have. Horribly so. There's plenty of gruesome footage

As to your second question, it's a very important one thought I'd change "democratic form of government" to "western-interest-friendly government" because when it comes to revolution of the working class in Arab countries we provide arms, ammunition and political cover to tyrants targeting nonviolent civilian targets.

Here's just one example of hired foreign mercenaries killing people
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsUliy-UCu0

And here you can see the sad fate of soldiers who refused to shoot unarmed civilians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh5s6QlTwOs

I warn you that the second video is graphic and will hurt to watch.