Libya recently cut back the amount foreigners, especially France, could take from leased wells...

[PurityOfEssence]

France was the first major nation to officially recognize the rebels as the true government of Libya, which they did on March 10th. Then, when things started to go very badly for this newly-formed government, the call for intervention increased.

This is from an article entitled: "Why Imperialists hate Libya, love Bahrain"

A cable from U.S. Ambassador Gene Kretz to the State Department on June 4, 2009, made public by WikiLeaks, shows that more recently Libya was able to force foreign oil firms, especially France’s Total, to agree to take a much smaller percentage of the oil and gas yielded from their wells, under threat of renationalization.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/china/THESFJ3KBVS2JJJN7

Few things at this level of international relations happen for one simple reason, but there's definitely a big oil component here. France gets approximately 10% of the oil produced in Libya. Germany gets 14%; it declined to vote in the Security Council resolution and has spoken out against the adventure. Italy gets 23%; it's trying its best to stay on the fence. Russia would benefit from Libya's oil being taken offline, but they also declined to vote and are speaking out against the incursion.

The "National Transitional Council", who proclaim themselves as the rightful government of Libya, and who were recognized by France, are a group of ex-military officers from Qaddafi's regime, or so claims Wikipedia. I don't pretend to know much of anything about them, and for all I know, they may be a fine bunch of chaps, but they ARE ex-officers of Qaddafi's military, so chances are that they're not Jim Hightowers or Bernie Sanderses. I had heard a news report--I believe CNN--where they had stated, when asking for foreign assistance, that they would remember those who came to their aid and those who didn't, but I couldn't find any reference to this in a quick internet search.

Regardless, here's the Wikipedia entry for them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Transitional_Council

Once again: anyone who says this is a simple situation is seriously missing the point.

[joshcryer]

1. 94+ people died in Benghazi after the cease fire was announced and after the UN resolution.

How many would have died if France didn't push them back?

[Modern_Matthew]

4. I'm more concerned about what's happening within our own borders. nt

[BooScout]

7. 30 people died in Yemen on Friday.....

How many more will have to die before we come to their rescue?

[meow mix]

9. in yemen its a shiite push for power, you think were going to help them? false equivalence

good fucking luck with that... ghadaffi loves you.

[PurityOfEssence]

10. 52, actually; shot in the head by snipers while protesting, prompting government resignations

They have no oil.

[PurityOfEssence]

11. They're in open, armed rebellion and have declared a provisional government

They are not innocent protesters anymore, regardless of how just their cause may be. They are considered traitors by their government, and are trying to overthrow the government by force of arms.

We are taking sides in an internal struggle, and we don't know that much about this particular side. Even if they WERE pristine and truly honorable pluralists, what right have we to intervene?

I don't think we have the right to intervene in Yemen yet, either, but we should certainly be bringing influence to bear and doing so in a very public way, which we're not.

[joshcryer]

12. We don't know how many were armed and how many weren't.

Simply being with armed people doesn't mean you deserve to get shot sorry.

[PurityOfEssence]

15. Then why do you default to considering them all as innocent?

The conflation of armed rebels and demonstrators is as continual as the spurious and inciting misuse of the term "genocide". I am at least conceding that there have been some attacks against demonstrators early on, yet you dismiss this and consider ALL casualties to be victims.

Note that some of the Qaddafi supporters are considered to be civilians, too...

Here's a clip from Wikipedia, the source you so selectively like:

Among the security forces there had been more than 450 dead, including civilians in support of the government, mercenaries and rebel soldiers. There have been many reports that members of the security forces have been killed by both the government and the opposition. On February 18, two policemen were hanged by protesters in Benghazi.<11> Also, on the same day, 50 African mercenaries, mostly from Chad, were executed by the protesters in al-Baida. Some of them were killed when protestors burned down the police station in which they locked them up<12> and at least 15 were lynched in front of the courthouse in al-Baida.<13> The bodies of some of them were put on display and caught on video.<14><15> By February 23, the government confirmed that 111 soldiers had been killed.<16>


It's not a simple situation. Bear in mind that the movers and shakers within the provisional government are members of Qaddafi's military who have defected. Something tells me that this doesn't quite make them "fine fellows" themselves. We simply don't know what all is going on, and pretending we do with force of arms is an abomination.

Just because you have aligned yourself with protesters against a horrible regime doesn't mean you're loosed of the responsibility of observing the same standards of truth that you demand from your opponents.

[joshcryer]

17. Because I've seen the video of how these things go down, the armed military guys...

...tend to be strategic, the armed protesters tend to get in the way and run around with their heads cut off, and the unarmed protesters tend to be in a state of liberated euphoria which gets them killed.

[OKDem08]

2. but we are being told it's a humanitarian mission...

:sarcasm:

[Catherina]

3. Rec'd. Here's the quote

Opposition Member: Liberated Libya Will Remember its Friends
Ali Tarhouni, member of the Economic and Oil Committee in liberated Libya says pro-democracy Libyans want a no-fly zone
James Butty March 16, 2011

A Libyan opposition member says those opposed by Moammar Gadhafi will be disappointed with the United States and the rest of the international community if they fail to impose a no-fly zone over Libya.

Ali Tarhouni, member of the Economic and Oil Committee of the Provincial Council running the liberated areas of Libya, says the days of the Libyan leader are numbered and the people will remember those who supported them in their time of need.

“I think it is actually a shame that the Western world, particularly the United States, that advocates for democracy human rights, and now we see more of a cowardly position. The Libyan people are not asking for much. All they are asking for is for no-fly zone,” he said.

...

“I don’t understand what they mean by sanctions. Gadhafi has his airplanes and they are bombing cities about 50 or 100 kilometers from here. To tell you, as a supporter of Obama, I’m totally, as most of the Libyan people are, disappointed. And here is a simple equation; it is not really complicated – Gadhafi will go sooner or later, and I think the Libyan people will remember who their friends are (and) who stood by them in their hour of need,” Tarhouni says.

...

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/africa/Butty-Libya-Opposition-React-Tarhouni-16march11-118064954.html

[dgibby]

5. Once again,

if you really want to know what's going on behind the scenes, you need only to follow the money. The "Beast" (MIC) must be fed.

[joshcryer]

6. Ahh, I now see why you didn't link the actual article, but rather a quote on a forum:

http://www.workers.org/2011/world/bahrain_0324/

[joshcryer]

8. OK, the cable does not say that at all! Total dishonesty! Sickening!

4.(SBU) Each consortium will take 27 percent of oil production, down from the 50 percent take they had under the previous agreement. For gas, the consortium will take a 40 percent share (down from 50 percent), which will be reduced in the future to 30 percent. For the Mabruk field, which is located in the Sirte basin and produces some 20,000 barrels of oil per day, the new production share is 73 percent for the NOC, 20.25 percent for Total and 6.75 percent for StatoilHydro. The contract's expiration date has been extended from 2027 to 2032. For the offshore al-Jurf field, which produces 45,000 barrels of oil per day, the new share is 73 percent for the NOC, 20.25 percent for Total and 6.75 percent for Wintershall. Natural gas produced at al-Jurf will be split as follows: 60 percent for the NOC, 30 percent for Total and 10 percent for Wintershall. The al-Jurf contract has been extended from 2017 to 2032.

Translation: they took a share cut in order to get an extension.

5.(C/NF) Comment: The new production share percentage accepted by Total and its partners is still considerably larger than those obtained by other IOCs in renegotiating their existing contracts. It is also larger than the production shares of companies who won contracts in the most recent EPSA-IV bid rounds. The new agreement still guarantees Total, Wintershall and StatoilHydro longer access to existing Libyan reserves and further field development opportunities, with the potential of increasing oil production.

Translation: they still came out on top, and they got extensions to boot.

[jacquelope]

13. Rule #1: Follow the money. n/t

.

[BeFree]

14. Once again....

...we are bent over a barrel of oil.

If Libya had no oil it would hardly be news.

Just more of the downward spiral of modern civilization, and the bottom is coming faster.
Guess we might as well get there sooner rather than later?

Seems the doomers are going to get their way.
The elites are running things to the bottom as fast as they can.

I once had a foolish dream of Hope for some real Change.
Fuck it. We will bomb our worries away!!

[Starry Messenger]

16. k&r

[Balbus]

18. But a democrat president told me differently...