My Idiot Brother-in-law and Potassium Iodide...

[MineralMan]

The place is Minnesota, and the player is my teabagger moron brother-in-law, who has not read a newspaper nor listened to or watched a normal news program for years. Listening to satellite right-wing radio is is only contact with the world beyond his house. So, he finally heard about the radiation problem in Japan yesterday from some radio moron, and heard that potassium iodide is the thing to have to protect himself from deadly fallout that will somehow teleport itself to Minnesota.

Being the moron that he is, he did not seek out the stuff himself, but sent his wife to get some. Now, I'm not sure where she found it, but she came back with a 100-count bottle of potassium iodide pills to meet the needs of him, her, and their 13-year-old son. She told my wife about it yesterday. My wife advised extreme caution with these pills and suggested that a consultation with their doctor might be in order before gobbling the pills. I later told my wife that some people are allergic to the stuff without even knowing it, and that it can lead to anaphylaxis and death, along with being absolutely useless against anything but Iodine-131, which will not come here to Minnesota. She has passed that information on to her sister, but I'm sure it will have no good effect.

You see, the teabagger radio blabber has spoken, and that settles it for my idiot brother-in-law. I do not speak with him, for my blood pressure's sake, so all communications are passed with my wife as the intermediary. I'll make one more attempt to inject some reason into this, but I doubt it will be of use.

This is what we face out there - morons listening to other morons, then buying enough potassium iodide to supply their entire townhome development.

[Botany]

1. Send your sister in law a letter and tell her that use of the ..

... product in the wrong way and at the wrong time could kill her or her son.

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/potassium-iodide-side-effects.html

[MineralMan]

3. My wife has already done that, via email. Her sister has a

smart phone that the idiot b-i-l doesn't know about, plus a secret email account. You have no idea how fucked up the family is. It's intensely depressing to have to deal with them. I hope it works.

[oregonjen]

13. She has a smart phone that he doesn't know about? Is there abuse?

If she is hiding a phone from him to communicate with others, sounds like he's a controlling abusive man. I hope she runs far away.

[MineralMan]

14. Yes. there is abuse. We've been trying to get her to leave for

years, now. It's mostly psychological abuse. She won't leave. I fear that it's hopeless.

[yardwork]

64. That's too bad. I logged in to say the same thing - sounds like abuse.

Psychological abuse is just as damaging as physical abuse. There's a child being abused - that is going to cause lifelong problems. You know all this, of course. Just talking out loud.

Can DUers help you connect with some expert advice?

[hobbit709]

2. With a little luck

[MineralMan]

4. With a little luck, they're fake pills or some homeopathetic

pills with nothing in them at all. I don't know where she got them, but it was probably a health food place, so there's a good chance they're homeopathetic and harmless.

[gkhouston]

12. If she got them at a health food place, it might be KI but with a dose in micrograms

instead of milligrams; i.e., it could be a dietary supplement and unlikely to do any harm. Here's hoping.

[peacetalksforall]

15. I resent your comments about the worthlessness of Homoeapathy and I would like you to

consider this. Most likely your in-law went to a Walgreen's type store. They cater to allopathic doctors and I doubt that they would carry much from any brand of homoeapathic companies.

I become furious with people who smear homoeapathic remedies. How many prescription drugs from allopathic medicine DO NOT hurt the liver? How many prescriptions drugs have a side effect printout that is five lines or less - they often take up an entire page. It makes me sick to hear people smear homoeapathic assists to the body.

At Walgreens - they may be purchasing this:

Roxane
Drug Information For: POTASSIUM IODIDE SAT. SOLN. W/DRP
Ingredient Name: POTASSIUM IODIDE (poe-TAS-ee-um EYE-oh-dide)

Drug Manufacturer: ROXANE

Common Uses: This medicine is an expectorant used to treat lung conditions where it is helpful to thin mucous so it may be coughed up more easily. It is also an antithyroid agent used to treat certain thyroid conditions. This medicine may also be used to treat other conditions as determined by your doctor.

Before Using This Medicine: Some medicines or medical conditions may interact with this medicine. INFORM YOUR DOCTOR OR PHARMACIST of all prescription and over-the-counter medicine that you are taking. DO NOT TAKE THIS MEDICINE if you are also taking potassium-sparing diuretics. ADDITIONAL MONITORING OF YOUR DOSE OR CONDITION may be needed if you are taking medicine for heart conditions or high blood pressure (ACE inhibitors). Inform your doctor of any other medical conditions, allergies, pregnancy, or breast-feeding. Contact your doctor or pharmacist if you have any questions or concerns about using this medicine.

How to Use This Medicine: Follow the directions for using this medicine provided by your doctor. DILUTE EACH DOSE in a glass (8 ounces) of water or fruit juice before taking. If crystals form, warm the solution by holding the container under a stream of warm water and shaking gently until the crystals are dissolved. THIS MEDICINE MAY BE TAKEN WITH FOOD if stomach upset occurs. DO NOT REFRIGERATE. STORE THIS MEDICINE at room temperature in a tightly-closed container, away from heat and light. Do not use the solution if it is discolored. IF YOU MISS A DOSE OF THIS MEDICINE, take it as soon as possible. If it is almost time for your next dose, skip the missed dose and go back to your regular dosing schedule. Do not take 2 doses at once.

Cautions: IF YOU HAVE HAD A SEVERE ALLERGIC REACTION to this medicine or a medicine that contains iodide (such as SSKI, Betadine), contact your doctor or pharmacist immediately BEFORE TAKING THIS MEDICINE. A severe reaction includes a severe rash, hives, breathing difficulties, or dizziness. If you have a question about whether you are allergic to this medicine or if a certain medicine is an iodide, contact your doctor or pharmacist. BEFORE YOU BEGIN TAKING ANY NEW MEDICINE, either prescription or over-the-counter, check with your doctor or pharmacist. DO NOT USE SALT SUBSTITUTES while you are taking this medicine. IF YOU PLAN ON BECOMING PREGNANT, discuss with your doctor the benefits and risks of using this medicine during pregnancy. If you are or may be pregnant, check with your doctor for instructions on using this medicine during pregnancy.

Possible Side Effects: SIDE EFFECTS, that may go away during treatment, include upset stomach, and metallic taste. If they continue or are bothersome, check with your doctor. CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR AS SOON AS POSSIBLE if you experience nausea and vomiting, abdominal pain, or skin rash. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor, nurse, or pharmacist. This is not a complete list of all side effects that may occur. If you have questions about side effects, contact your healthcare provider. Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects. You may report side effects to FDA at 1-800-FDA-1088.

Overdose: If overdose is suspected, contact your local poison control center or emergency room immediately. Symptoms of overdose may include muscle weakness and irregular heartbeat.

Additional Information: DO NOT SHARE THIS MEDICINE with others for whom it was not prescribed. DO NOT USE THIS MEDICINE for other health conditions. KEEP THIS MEDICINE out of the reach of children and pets. IF USING THIS MEDICINE FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME, obtain refills before your supply runs out.

Copyright 2010 Wolters Kluwer Health, Inc.
http://www.walgreens.com/marketing/library/finddrug/druginfo1.html?particularDrug=Potassium&id=10719

If this came from the pharmacist this print out might take a page also - this is only wiki.

Please continue.

IN ADDITION

please read this -

Roxane, a brand name of the drug roxatidine (this is from wiki if you enter Roxane) and there is a link.

If you click on the link you get this -

Roxatidine

Roxatidine acetate is a specific and competitive H2 receptor antagonist. The antisecretory effect of roxatidine acetate is mediated by its main metabolite, roxatidine. Pharmacodynamic studies revealed that 150 mg of roxatidine acetate were optimal in suppressing gastric acid secretion, and that a single bedtime dose of 150 mg was more effective than a dose of 75 mg twice daily in terms of inhibiting nocturnal acid secretion.

Roxatidine acetate has no antiandrogenic effects and does not influence drug-metabolizing enzymes in the liver.<[br />
This is also from wiki.

[MineralMan]

18. Homeopathetic medicine is a complete fraud.

Sorry, but those are the scientific facts. I'm not going to belabor the issue in this thread, however.

[peacetalksforall]

24. This is your post and in #4 you brought up homoeapathy - you didn't have to. You could

have promoted what she purchased if you had to bring up the subject at all. Looks like an opportunity that you took for whatever reason you have that motivates you.

Allopathic - good for acute problems.
Homoeapathic - good for preventive health.

I was fortunate enough to be introduced to one of the h products thirty years ago by a doctor whose clients included one of the US Olympic teams.

I have been fortunate enough to have gone 15 years without taking a prescription drug filled by the doctor-pharmacist-pharmaceutical-lobbyist profit consortium - that incident was for bronchitis that I couldn't treat in time because I was on a road trip and exposed to rain, cold, and lack of sleep.

Homoeapathy and that licensed western medicine doctor were two of the great gifts in my life.

There are many people who benefit. You are smearing us.

[Codeine]

25. Sid hasn't stepped up, so I'll post this.

[SidDithers]

27. Thanks for the assist....

:hi:

Sid

[peacetalksforall]

35. Snotty, smarmy, and unbecoming of a DUer.

[Codeine]

42. And yet completely and utterly accurate. nt

[peacetalksforall]

45. I'm equally accurate - neither of us has provided proof. And I don't trust

the health industry. What is the target number for the reduction of the world population by the ruling elite? How man billions?

I don't know your reasons for your partisanship on this issue, but you are in alignment with the health industry - a highly objective wealth industry. There is no reason to demean other people with a toilet and the s word.

And then expect no one to challenge you and your friends who help each other on DU.

[GoneOffShore]

58. If water has memory, to quote TIm Minchin, how does it remember a drop of onion juice,

Yet forgets all the poo (shit) it's had in it?

No person is being demeaned, but an idea that has no basis in reality is.

[peacetalksforall]

61. Sorry, you team took the lead and made no case for what you're saying.

Plants are also used in allopathic prescriptions drugs.
Sugar is used in allopathic prescription drugs.

[GoneOffShore]

62. Please send links to peer reviewed double blind studies showing that

Homeopathetic sugar pills and magic memory water actually work.

Otherwise, I will still dismiss homeopathy, the more outrageous claims of chiropractic, reiki, needle sticking and all the other woo as woo.

[peacetalksforall]

65. I wasn't the one to bring up h. Those who go on the offensive can make their case.

Those who attack for no reason are not typical DUers.

To attack H. is parallel to attacking solar energy.

There is a grand profit in oil and uranium and H is dirt cheap - like a bike.

And who are any of you to claim that it is a charade. Who are you and where are you coming from - western medicine practitioners, lobbyists, insurance, hosp adm.?

[GoneOffShore]

68. Not typical DUers? Excuse me? Really?

Most DUers I've encountered, except for the anti science brigade, want to see results and not just anecdotal ones when it comes to medicine.

You got one thing right about homeopathy but you added an extra word and a phrase that wasn't true - Homeopathy is dirt. It certainly isn't cheap. It's expensive in terms of the suffering it causes by giving people who trust it misplaced hope.

Believing ridiculous things for ridiculous reasons will always rot ones judgment and lead to swallowing tripe like homeopathy, creationism and other sorts of woo.

And please - I've seen the harm that woo can do.

But to quote Tim Minchin -

If you show me that, say, homeopathy works, then,
I will change my mind, I will spin on a fucking dime.
I’ll be as embarrassed as hell,
But I will run through the streets yelling,
It’s a Miracle!
Take physics and bin it.
Water has memory!
And whilst its memory of a long lost drop of onion juice seems infinite,
It somehow forgets all the poo it’s had in it.

[GoneOffShore]

53. totally appropriate - Homeopathy = no science

[snooper2]

66. That picture is missing a proper P-trap, FYI

:P

[MineralMan]

30. Well, I'm glad you've been healthy for 15 years. That's a good thing.

It demonstrates nothing about homeopathetic "remedies," though. Not a thing. As for your doctor, I have nothing to say about that doctor. I would not use her/him for my own health if I knew that he/she ever recommended anything as useless as homeopathetic "remedies." You are, of course, free to take whatever you wish. It's none of my affair. Please see my signature line for notes about opinions, which I expressed in the posts in this thread.

[Drahthaardogs]

36. As a toxicologist I completely agree

the whole premise of homeopathic medicine is complete and absoulte bunk from a physiological standpoint. The idea that an infitiely dilute molecular amount of a substance will cause some sort of cascade reaction that will cure the symptom the larger dose created...bleh. Any positive effects are purely placebo. The best definition I have ever heard of homeopathy is "a cruel deception".

[peacetalksforall]

57. Well, it looks like you all have a team here. Just like Agent Mike and his helpers - the

team that clung to the ice theory for several weeks after the Wellstone crash.

I wonder if a team that first comes here to fight one subject is contacted to take on another with a little reward tacked on. The commonality is a call to respond, a slam attack conveniently timed with no case made - no justification for the position - just attack slam. Repeat. Repeat.

[peacetalksforall]

59. None of you on your team have said what the in-law would have purchased

at a health food store. What do they sell there that contains this iodide?

Name the product. If not, it just proves taking advantage of an opportunity to smear.

[SidDithers]

19. That's the good thing about homeopathic remedies...

you never have to worry about side effects.

Sid

[MineralMan]

20. That's very true. Since they are diluted until there is no measurable

amount of the ingredient left in what you take, you need have no fear of side effects.

Potassium Iodide sold as a homeopathetic "remedy" is called kalium iodatum, or as I prefer, kalium idiotum.

Usually available in 30c dilution, you can be sure there is no potassium iodide whatever in the "remedy," only a molecular memory of it, and memories can't cause physical harm, unless you're distraught about the memory of your first love. In that case, there is no cure.

One set of tests, using the equally bogus "kirlian photography" is supposed to have shown that the potassium iodide "principle" was present in this "remedy," Of course the principle of kirlian photography is as bogus as homeopathy, so there you are.

I recommend homeopathetic "remedies" for all those suffering from imagined ailments and as prophylaxis against such imagined ailments. The imaginary ingredients are quite effective in such cases. All others should visit a medical professional, who will offer treatments for the real ailments we are all prone to have.

[jberryhill]

21. Duh... Unregulated homeopathic crap is not required to list side effects

...or be tested, or be effective, or be safe when used as directed.

[MineralMan]

22. No problem. Unless you are allergic to water or sugar,

you'll never be at any risk with homeopathetic "remedies." They don't contain any of the thing they say is in the liquid or pill. They're perfectly safe to take. In fact, you can take the whole bottle if you like, and it will have exactly the same lack of effect that a single pill or drop has.

Use homeopathetic "remedies" freely, if you can afford them. They'll do you no harm.

[Maru Kitteh]

46. Did homeopathy turn you into a psychic who somehow knows where this lady did her shopping?

Cuz that's freakin' awesome, dude.

[GoneOffShore]

52. Homeopathy - There's nothing in it.

Of course if you take enough homeopathetic remedies you could die - of an overdose of sugar or you could drown or overdose on Dihydrogen Monoxide - http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

[TNLib]

5. I have one of those in my family my idiot Uncle

went out and bought some. My mom advised him not to take them. We live in South East TN so there is absolutely no danger of nuclear fall out from Japan. Some people are just paranoid and dumb.

[PassingFair]

7. These are the same people that thought that the Muslins were massing at our borders...

My husband and I are "friends" with a couple
like this, here in Michigan.

I didn't realize how FEARFUL they were about
the most ridiculous things.

Aren't there enough PROBABLE catastrophes
looming to be afraid of?

[MineralMan]

8. Free The Wild Muslins!

How many cute little Muslins lost their lives for your clothing? Ask yourself that question. :shrug:

[PJPhreak]

11. And the purple ones are Really rare...

Don't belive me? Then one should read about the "Naugas"! They are REALLY Pissed that their speices is being wiped out so we can have nice Camaro Interiors!!


No Hide like Naugahide!!

[jpak]

6. A Mega-Moran Meltdown

yup

[MineralMan]

9. Indeed. Last month they all got the flu.

No flu shots. They're poison, you know - a plot by the librals to poison real 'merkins.

[tanyev]

23. No flu shots because they're poison, yet it's a good idea to take iodide pills

for a problem that doesn't exist. Brilliant.

[MineralMan]

29. Yah, well, logic plays no role in his thinking.

And so it goes with the baggers.

[bluestate10]

41. The the brother in law a break. People like him just came up last year

from their Y2K shelters. Mexicans and Muslims are not scary enough for the idiots, they need something else pricking their tiny brains.

[mwb970]

10. A steady diet of false fears warps the conservative mind.

The conservatives' lack of the ability to think critically, combined with total ignorance of how the world works (including science and medicine), combine to produce nonsensical, counter-productive behavior like this. This is inherent in Right Wing World, since the infusion of fear is constant and the ignorance level is very, very high.

To me, this is of a piece with the "Obama is going to take all our guns" idiocy. When you have fear-mongers screeching into empty heads, this is what you get.

[formercia]

16. More people will become ill or die from taking KI than will from the effects of fallout

Iodine 131 Isotope has a very short half-life of about 8 days. What little reaches the US will decay in short order.

[gkhouston]

39. In the US, probably true. In Japan, over the next few decades? Probably not,

sad to say. :cry:

[formercia]

40. Point taken

I was thinking of the US.

So sad.

[noamnety]

17. I'd go a different route with the situation.

You aren't likely to convince him not to take the pills. The concerns about allergic reactions, while valid, hold true for almost every medication from penicillin to aspirin, and even basic foods like peanuts hold the same risks. Some people can have allergic reactions to any of those and die.

Perhaps there are some similarities between alarmist warnings about risking their lives if they don't take the supplements and alarmist warnings that they could be risking their lives if they do take the supplements.

The route I'd take - clearly this is a time when he's most open to hearing bad things about the nuclear industry. Why not take advantage of that to start a conversation about it? "I'm not going so far as to take the pills, but I have grave concerns about the safety of any of these plants. I don't trust big business CEOs to do proper safety checks ... " Give him the history of lies about safety testing, tie it in with the gulf disaster and lies about their safety records and inspections. Lead him to an understanding of why government regulations and inspections and alternative energy sources are so important.

[Ikonoklast]

26. I wonder what it's like living you entire life being fearful?

Not only fearful, but every person that I've ever met like that is also gullible to the extreme.

I often wondered if it is a lack of critical thinking skills that make those two attributes go hand-in-hand, or if one predicts the other?

[MineralMan]

32. Oddly, though, they seem only to be gullible when presented

with information that is on the fringe. That's puzzling to me. I guess something has to drive the conspiracy theorists. Conventional wisdom is to be avoided, according to them, no matter how much evidence is presented. Some bizarre theory with no evidence behind it always seems to be preferable. Strange.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

28. Ask your BIL where his wife managed to score a 100-count bottle of pills.

That's really curious.

[MineralMan]

31. As I said, I don't speak to my BIL. If I see her, though, I'll

ask my wife's sister. I have no idea, really, but I suspect it was at a "health pill" store.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

33. Considering you're saying the pills could cause "anaphylaxis and death"...

I would think you'd want to find out asap, particularly since there is a child involved.

[MineralMan]

34. Uh, the lines of communication are open between my wife and

her sister. I believe I made that clear. Indeed, we're communicating with her with a recommendation that she not take or give any of those pills to anyone else without consulting her doctor, who will doubtless advise against it. If BIL wants to take them, he's welcome to. He's a big grownup. Stupid as a rock, but of age.

Potassium Iodide is available over the counter at most supplement stores. It's in short supply just now, but apparently not in such short supply that my sister-in-law could not find some. What are we supposed to do? Call the police about a legal medication? We're communicating.

[Dorian Gray]

37. Please

Here, in liberal (and wealthy) Park Slope, there was a run on the stuff at the Park Slope Food Co-op. Seriously.

People are idiots everywhere.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. So he bought it. Big deal. Is he taking it?

I don't understand why, when we're constantly talking about making sure we're prepared for all eventualities, some folks are so ANGRY about this particular route of preparation.

If he's taking the pills, that's one thing. If he bought them, honestly, it's probably not a bad idea. Granted they may not be necessary for this situation; certainly not based on the radiation releases so far, at least to the extent that we've been truthfully informed about them--- but there are a lot of nuclear power plants in the US. You never know. Maybe you trust the government to get KI pills to everyone who might be affected, and to tell people in a timely enough fashion to take them (something which was not done in Japan) but, again, we've been told over and over again that WE are responsible for being prepared for all eventualities.

I really don't see why you're so mad at your BIL about this. It's his family and his business.

[MineralMan]

63. They live in Minnesota. The chances of measurable levels of

I-131 arriving here are essentially nil. In the first place, the travel time between Japan and Minnesota, should the jet stream be headed this way is just about the half life of 1-131. Secondly, the stuff would be rained out before it got here. There's rational behavior and irrational behavior. I prefer the rational type.

[Maru Kitteh]

43. Other complications of too much PI include cardiac dysrhythmia and shutting the thyroid down

altogether.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/radiation/ki.asp

Perhaps you should send along this article to them: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42135438/ns/health-health_care/

[Duer 157099]

44. Just to add some actual real info

These pills must be taken every 24 hours during the threat of exposure to radioactive iodine. So, a 100-count bottle might not be as absurd as you seem to be claiming.

[Maru Kitteh]

48. Really? How do you figure? How can taking PI pills in anywhere in the US be anything BUT absurd in

relationship to the crisis facing the JAPANESE? The Japanese are handling this with dignity and grace - in the United States we seem to be a little pissed that all of the attention isn't on us.

I'm starting to think we're suffering from an acute case of disaster envy here in America. Like the disaster isn't real until we make it OUR disaster. It's disgraceful.

[Duer 157099]

49. And I quote:

"The protective effect of KI lasts approximately 24 hours. For optimal prophylaxis, KI should therefore be dosed daily, until a risk of significant exposure to radioiodines by either inhalation or ingestion no longer exists."

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/Guidances/ucm080542.pdf

[Maru Kitteh]

50. Edited for clarity

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=696979&mesg_id=702207

[Duer 157099]

51. I get what you're saying, but my post was just factual

and not based on any specific current disaster. It was simply addressing the question of why a 100-count bottle of pills is not absurd.

[Maru Kitteh]

56. I can agree with that. It's at least plausible that number would be appropriate for a family of 3

In an actual emergency, which we will not be having in the US as a result of the Fukushima disaster.

[Codeine]

55. Disaster envy. That's fucking it EXACTLY!

You've hit on it. We need to feel like we know everything the second it occurs, that we need to interject our agendas into it, that the impact it has on our lives will be just as profound as the folks right in the middle of it, and that if we're not panicking we're not in solidarity with the Japanese.

It's fucking delusional.

[Raine]

47. but but didn't Ann Coultergist say that radiation

was good for you. :shrug:

[agentS]

54. People like your b-i-l won't learn the easy way. they'll have to learn the hard

way.
Some people are just hardheaded and need shit to happen to change their minds. Looks like your b-i-l and some other Americans (like the shoppers Dorian Gray mentioned upthread) are just gonna have to get sick.

I wonder if the paranoid folks will try to obtain and drink a bottle of Prussian Blue dye next?

[Maru Kitteh]

60. Seriously, let us know how things turn out.

[snooper2]

67. You should ask him about his fall-out shelter, and why he hasn't started on it

:)

[Maru Kitteh]

69. He could stock it with some of Glen Beck's "food insurance" and EZ water.

:-)