Don't lie to me anymore. That is all I ask.

[mmonk]

Don't say it is about saving people when you let others be slaughtered and never lift a finger. If you want my support, have an honest discussion. Discuss the merits of action vs inaction. I have been lied to before. But I am still reasonable.

My request to my government.

[Posteritatis]

1. That's a discussion that pretty much everybody should be having anyway. (nt)

[dkf]

2. I wonder if those who support it are as shocked as the Arab League that we are killing people

Or do they take full responsibility for their support knowing there will be deaths.

[vaberella]

14. dunno...it was the Arab league that pushed the NFZ mission.

In Cairo, the Arab League asked the U.N. Security Council to impose a no-fly zone to protect the rebels, increasing pressure on the U.S. and other Western powers to take action that most have expressed deep reservations about.


http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2011/03/12/gadhafi-pushes-ahead-arab-league-calls-help/

[joshcryer]

3. What would you like to know?

[Aerows]

4. We already have been lied to

These "protesters" have planes and anti-aircraft artillery. We know this because they shot down their own plane a couple of days ago by mistake. That story was covered up, and only reported by Reuters.

The oil contracts have been voided, so now, they are eager to get a more stable, biddable puppet in there instead of a civil war.

This is, once again, about OIL. We should have let the Libyans sort it out. These are not people being slaughtered for peaceful resistance - this is a civil war, with both sides being armed. All the neo-cons are on board with this, and that should tell you all you need to know.

[Jamastiene]

15. You've been paying attention too, I see.

Just think, in a few months, all of the ones who are so for this will start to realize they've been had and they will start to deny they were ever for it. Waiting and putting up with the naivete for all that time will be the hardest part. I might take up building model airplanes or some other hobby while I wait for them to catch up and learn what the rest of us already know. Yawn.

[quinnox]

5. President Obama government lie to the people?

Say it ain't so! I refuse to believe it.

[Marblehead]

6. I can't remember

when our government ever told the truth, they lie about everything

[OwnedByFerrets]

7. Government = Lies.....even though

the government is supposed to be US, its not. Why would we lie to ourselves. Its not a government of the people any longer. It's a government for corporate greed and run by the powerful.

[fascisthunter]

8. Thank you, I'm sick of all the Bullshit Too

[Jakes Progress]

9. "Get used to being disappointed."

You might find out Wesley's name and you might even find the six-fingered man. But what you are asking here is too much.

They want your support, even your faith and trust. But they won't give you what you want.

[Tatiana]

10. Yep. Our leaders think we are stupid and often we prove them right by believing their propaganda.

I really don't believe this is a humanitarian effort. Otherwise, we would have been introducing UN resolutions for Bahrain or Yemen or Darfur to protect those civilians.

We are seeking regime change. We're trying to be a little savvier than an outright coup (e.g. Allende in Chile, Mosaddegh in Iran or the clumsy attempt against Chavez in Venezuela). We're aiming for regime change under the auspices of humanitarian action, much the way we nabbed Noriega to get him out of Panama once he was no longer useful to us.

I would also add the UK intelligence has been our partner in crime before (e.g. Iranian coup), so the fact that Europe approves of these Libyan strikes doesn't mean a lot to me.

[Schema Thing]

11. wait, we can successfully intervene in any and all situations w/o weakening our own country?

wow, I see why I'm a hypocrite now. I thought being a "superpower" meant one thing, and you're telling me it means wearing a cape and having magic powers. Now that I know that, I'll see things through a much narrower (and dimmer) lens.

[Jamastiene]

12. Yawn.

Same here. I'm just waiting for the end game to reveal itself. There has to be some reason why THIS certain country's people matter so much more than others who are suffering under some serious oppression.

My rose colored glasses were broken during the last administration. I hate being lied to also. I just wish they would quit with the "never mind the man behind the curtain, the wizard is powerful, blah blah blah" routine and tell the truth for a change, instead of making us wait to see what they are really up to.

[Swede]

13. Great post.

You are one smart cookie. Oops.

[Agony]

16. once they SMASH wikileaks you won't have to worry about knowing that they lied...

problem solved!

[StarburstClock]

17. I say that every single day

It never works, I'm a peon, "fu__cking retarded", in the eyes of politicos. We're all just objects to be manipulated by them, mere animals that need to be herded in one direction or the other so a criminal system of failed/unregulated capitalism can be propped up for the benefit of the few. Most people are fully aware of it now too, it's both frightening and encouraging.

[tkmorris]

18. You're in for a world of disappointment

They have NEVER not lied to you. They are never GOING to not lie to you. Governance has always been largely the manipulation of the governed. Some are obvious, some are not, but none are innocent.

[bluesmail]

19. I truly despise it when, even if it's a close relative, who's lying to me.

There's no difference if it's a relative or a government. Sad to say, the degree of anger is the same.

[tavalon]

20. Oil

Does it make you feel better?

[PurityOfEssence]

21. That really is the heart of it.

If the desire is to influence an armed conflict, don't claim to be only protecting innocent civilians. If the desire is to remove a leader from power, don't say that it's not the aim.
If the desire is to smash a military and render it tame, don't call it a "No Fly Zone"
If it's to make the place safer through an arms embargo, don't talk about then resupplying rebels.
If we're the leaders of the attack, don't say we aren't and then say we're about to pass the baton.
If one side's atrocities count, then the executions done by the other do to.
If we're talking civilians, talk civilians, not armed insurgents.
If it's about saving civilians, then save them everywhere, not just when dealing with those we dislike.
If attacking those who don't threaten us is bad when done by a Republican, then it's bad by a Democrat.
If war is being made, call it war, not some sanitized air-flight ban.
If things are complex and interconnected, don't claim that they're simple and unarguably good.
If the horror of war is to be flirted with, don't do it in a casual, half-assed, ultramoderate way.
If Perle, Wolfowitz, Kristol, McCain, Lieberman and Woolsey want it, but Rumsfeld doesn't, explain.
If we're sowing the seeds of peace from cruise missiles and drones, then what next?
If troops won't be involved, what happens if the air attacks aren't enough?

That's all; I'm tired.

Thanks for the thread. I feel somewhat similar, except I am not so reasonable now...