Nader: Obama should be impeached for 'war crimes'

[Gman]

Former presidential candidate Ralph Nader says that President Obama should be impeached for committing war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The consumer advocate and former presidential candidate said in an interview that aired Friday that Obama has committed "war crimes" on the same level as President Bush.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/150907-nader-obama-should-be-impeached-for-war-crimes

==============================================

LOL! This from the guy that GAVE US Bush-Cheney and who personally has all the blood of Iraq and Afghanistan on HIS hands.

[LiberalFighter]

1. He should go back under his rock.

[Sky Masterson]

4. +1

.

[Motown_Johnny]

57. +2

[Maru Kitteh]

90. +3

[mac56]

91. +4

[cliffordu]

121. +5

[RiverStone]

130. +6

[WildEyedLiberal]

141. +7

[blondeatlast]

151. +8. nt

[JoePhilly]

43. He usually only comes out to check for his shadow in Presidential election years.

[ProSense]

2. Maybe he

can get with Kucinich and Issa.

[Liberal Veteran]

3. Is Periodic Cicada Ralph Nader already out of hibernation?

Must be a presidential race coming soon.

[2gabby]

5. I wonder how Brad Manning feels about that

But that's right, he's locked up with nothing but walls and bars to talk to. No, that's not right. I don't think they let him talk at all, right?

Do we have to defend torture? Really?

[jaxx]

13. Manning would probably rather not discuss war crimes.

[sabrina 1]

78. Wrong, actually. Manning wants very much to talk about war

crimes. His superiors in the military told him stfu about such things, and now they will not allow him to speak about them.

Why do you think that is?

[Demoiselle]

49. Has Nader spoken out in defense of Manning?

I'm asking...not trying to sabotage any arguments. I really don't know. I just googled "Nader on Manning" and got nothing. Please let me know.

[2gabby]

56. i'm honestly not sure. nt

[bluestateguy]

6. Bush and Cheney's favorite leftist speaks again

nt

[2gabby]

7. its painful to point out you are all attacking the messenger

Which is something best left to those without an argument. It makes it seem as if whether or not there's any truth to war crimes is less important than Ralph Nader.

[bluestateguy]

11. If you still don't get it after 11 years then we don't have anything to talk about

nt

[2gabby]

14. dont get it after 11 years

No, with that much information, all I get is "don't say anything bad about the democratic president". I guess my answer is, good luck with that.

[bluestate10]

30. I will break the news to you. Nader elected Bush in 2000.

The wingnut Supreme Court acted on Nader delivered opportunity.

[2gabby]

53. if Nader elected Bush while 300 million of us...let him?

Sounds like Nader is our overlord already then. I'd quit talking about him, if that's what you think.

Seriously, if you got nothing but Nader hate, it doesn't help Obama. And you can quit talking to me about it.

[Tesha]

71. Clinton and his bad behavior elected Bush.

The Election of 2000 should have been a runaway
win for the Democrats, yet it wasn't. Why was that?

Tesha

[Chef Eric]

109. Are you for real?

Do you really base your opinions about people by studying what Bush and Cheney think of them?

Can't you form your own opinion about a person by considering the things that he has said?

[silver10]

8. maybe, but he definitely doesn't deserve his Nobel PEACE Prize

[FLPanhandle]

9. Fuck Nader

I've enjoyed saying that since the year 2000.

[Gman]

40. +1

[mac56]

92. +2

[Taitertots]

10. A weak democratic candidate and a stolen election gave us Bush

Nader was right all along (Iraq, Afghanistan, economics). It is probably a good idea to listen to him this time.

[Blue-Jay]

15. On what issues was Al Gore "weak"?

His only weakness was in presentation and marketing.

[Taitertots]

19. Presentation and Marketing are critical to anyone who expects to win elections

The man has the charisma of an old oak tree. It makes no sense to blame Nader for Gore's failures or Bush's election theft.

[RaleighNCDUer]

101. The only person in that election with less charisma than Gore

was Nader.

Yet somehow he became the boogieman for Bush's THEFT of the election.

[Chef Eric]

112. I disagree. The only person in that election with less charisma than Gore was Lieberman. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

116. Whoops. You're right.

He has so little charisma I completely forgot about him.

[Sonicwall]

17. Al Gore was never a weak candidate

It was the damn BFEE that monkeyed the election and they need to placed in prison for life, without parole - in a solitary confinement box measuring 6x6.

No letters, visitors, and they must be nekkid 24/7. No mattress, blankets, pillows or anything of that kind.

The only thing they can have is a suicide smock to keep warm.

[Taitertots]

33. Yes, he certainly was a weak candidate

I'm not going to blame Nader for Gore's unpopularity or Bush's election theft.

[white_wolf]

12. I hate how DU is so willing to attack one of the few real progressives in this country.

He didn't cause Bush to win in 2000, because Bush didn't win he stole it. Blame the Supreme Court for that, not Nader. For the record if Nader had been president I bet he wouldn't have sold out on Single-payer and give us a health insurance bill designed for the benefit of insurance companies.

[2gabby]

18. it has an undertone of being used as a distraction

And I don't like it one bit. Defend Obama damnit. Don't LET accusations go by attacking the messenger. That is all.

Edited to fix proper curse word

[Blue-Jay]

21. Nader didn't cause a win for Bush in 2000.

His "pie-in-the-sky, everything should be perfect RIGHT FUCKING NOW" followers did.

[Taitertots]

23. Damn those people for expecting that the President shouldn't make the world a worse place to live

They should accept a candidate diametrically opposed to their views.

[Blue-Jay]

58. Classic either/or fallacy.

It's your right to vote for the candidate that best supports your views (I support this). But to say that your vote for a non-viable candidate had no effect on helping to elect the worst candidate is false.

Nader votes (in Florida specifically) did what they thought was best. Their choices, however, made it possible for the GOP to steal the election. In retrospect, the ones who claimed that there's no difference between Gore (Party A) and Bush (Party B) have been proven to be incorrect. Party A is not ideal, but Party B is full of lunatics.

[Taitertots]

60. You are assuming that people who didn't vote for Nader would have voted for someone....

Diametrically opposed to their political views. There is nothing to support this assertion.

[Blue-Jay]

63. Gore's views are diametrically opposed to yours?

Enlighten me, so that I'll make no further assumptions.

You do know what "diametrically" means, right? Like the word "diameter", it means that there was "one side" or the "other side". My thinking is that politics is sometimes more complicated than yes/no. Although I respect and mostly agree with Nader, I was quite aware that Gore would have been a better president than Bush. "My way or no way" is not how the world works. I hold the "libertarian" concept of "I got mine, so fuck everyone else" in the same contempt.

[Taitertots]

68. No, they are diametrically opposed to NADER's views

Which is why it is laughable to assume that Gore would be an acceptable alternative to Nader voters.

[Blue-Jay]

69. sigh. OK.

If that's so laughable, I hope you are still enjoying a good chuckle.

[Taitertots]

72. Yes, your failure to understand the political views of other people is making me laugh

The Bush Presidency was more crying, screaming, and dreaming of a better future.

[Blue-Jay]

74. YOU=FAIL, ME=AWESOME!

LOL! LOL!


(Have I summed up your position correctly, sweetie?)

[Taitertots]

76. You have jumped right to the conclusion

The position is that people who vote for Nader don't support Gore. Therefore Nader voters are not to blame for Bush becoming President.

Then I laugh because you think that people will vote for someone they think will win, even if that person holds political views they deem unacceptable.

[Blue-Jay]

82. What a goddamn waste of time this is.

Still (glutton for dumbassery that I am) - I feel like I should ask which political views of Al Gore's do you deem as "unacceptable"?

I'm pretty sure I was moving to that sort of discussion before you decided to opt for the LOL! you suck! classic middle school divert & derail debate tactic. Hey. at least you're being an adult about this.

[Taitertots]

84. I don't, NADER VOTERS are the ones that do

Maybe you should ask them why they didn't support him. Instead of assuming that they would support Gore and blaming them for the Bush Presidency.

[Blue-Jay]

89. ffs....

You win. You've outlasted me. I'm in awe of your skills.

1)answering a question with another question? (check!)
2)putting words in another's mouth? (check!)
3)classic "I'm laughing at you" post? (check!, check!)
4)derailing an honest discussion? (check!)

My level of interest has been destroyed by your tenacity. I was bored five posts ago. Now I'm super-bored. Claim your victory, gladiator. You made no points, refuted nothing, showed yourself as incapable of adult discussion.

Victory is YOURS! Make the final post in this sub-thread to trumpet your superiority to all interested parties! You deserve it, you master of debate tactics.

[Taitertots]

96. You constantly complain, yet do the exact same thing you are complaining about

1) You would have to answer a question for that to happen
2) You have done that repeatedly
3) Classic "oh you win" post
4) You are doing it RIGHT NOW!

[Chef Eric]

97. Um, no. Al Gore's idiotic choice for a running mate did. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

104. If all the votes had been counted, then Gore would have won

no matter how many of 'those people' voted for Nader.

A reactionary steals an election from a moderate, and the progressive gets blamed.

[Blue-Jay]

107. Truth.

Then again, we (as Democrats) need to make sure that the results are always "less close". The courts will fuck us, so we need to ensure a large enough victory to prevent theft.

[RaleighNCDUer]

117. Agree - and one way to do that is to actually listen to the progressive wing

of the party, and not deliberately piss on them.

"Where are they going to go?" To Nader.

[Blue-Jay]

119. We're in a difficult predicament, for sure.

Personally, I'd rather vote for Democrats than face the kind of crap that we're seeing in Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, and New Jersey. I know that a lot of folks just shrugged their shoulders and said "Fuck it. It doesn't matter...", but it DOES matter.

Nader? I have nothing against the guy. My upthread point was that if more folks would have voted for Gore, the 2000 theft wouldn't have happened. People who still maintain that Gore was not "different enough" from Bush should at least admit that maybe they got it wrong.

[Ikonoklast]

80. Anti-labor Nader? Union buster Ralph Nader?

FUCK RALPH NADER.

[mac56]

105. +1

[jpak]

16. Nader can kiss my ass

yup

[Union Scribe]

20. I love that Nader can still make hacks cluck.

[Drunken Irishman]

22. Ralph Nader's opinion means about as much to me as Sarah Palin's...

Both are as worthless as tits on a bull.

[Gman]

24. +1

[mac56]

93. +2

[Peacetrain]

51. +1

holy crap

[sabrina 1]

83. Probably worth more than yours or mine though.

When was the last time anyone interviewed you to ask for your opinion? I haven't been asked lately either.

His opinion may not matter to you, but millions of people not just here, but from around the world respect his opinion very much. Being that this is the case, it is childish to try to silence or smear him as it is a futile effort. People will continue to ask for his opinion.

Why do people who say his opinions are irrelevant never present anything to contradict him?

Is he right on this, or is he wrong? I don't care who the MESSENGER is, I want to know if the message is worth considering.

[Ikonoklast]

129. People ask Sarah Palin her opinion on things, too.

People from all around the globe.

What's your point?

One thing IS different about Nader and Palin, however.

Palin never busted a union that tried to organize workers like Nader did.



Some fucking hero.

SCAB.

[sabrina 1]

134. Yes, but tea-baggers don't count. I mean they thought she

really could see Russia from her house.

I mean intelligent people. But you knew that.

He is a hero. Sorry he hurt your feelings by trying to warn us way back when we were all so idealistic we thought there was a political party that worked for us. I didn't like what he was saying then either. But time has proven him to be correct, and hard as it has been, I had to admit I was wrong.

I know how you feel, being wrong is hard, especially when you put so much faith in someone or something.

[Ikonoklast]

135. I have never respected Ralph Nader for anything he has done in the political spectrum.

I see Nader as another trial lawyer that saw a way to enrich himself using politics in much the very same way Palin is currently doing. He jumped on that bandwagon and has never got off.

I don't actually think he cares about you, or me, or anything else outside his close family circle and trusted lieutenants, and the money he makes off his foundations.

His actions concerning who he has allied himself with have belied whatever idealism he has tried to portray as his values.




I am a Union man.

Nader is a union-buster.

THAT is a fact. No scab is ever going to be a hero to me.

And, it is all I need to know about him.

[sabrina 1]

145. Well, nothing you have said about him dfferentiates him from

most politicians. Few of them care about you or me and tend to enrich themselves as a result of having been elected.

As for his bi-partisanship, well that's all the rage in DC. At least he hasn't appointed any Republicans to Commissions or or other cabinet positions where they have the power to influence our government.

Union busting, I know nothing about that, but will look it up. I don't see many politicians fighting hard for Unions these days either. In fact the current administration is currently waging a war on teachers. I am a teacher and have no time for politicians who view teachers are enemies of the people.

[kas125]

25. What difference does it make who it came from? If he's

committed the same war crimes, we should be calling for him to be impeached and imprisoned, just like we did with Bush. If we don't, we're just a bunch of hypocrites.

[Gman]

28. You miss the irony entirely

that's the point here. And, BTW... it's probably the most ridiculous statement I've read in the last 2 years.

[kas125]

100. I didn't miss anything, not even your assertion that

Nader gave us Bush. He did no such thing; the Supreme Court gave us Bush. And what's so ridiculous about the statement?

[Imagevision]

26. Without Nader Bush never would have happened...

[RaleighNCDUer]

36. And you will never understand that that particular meme was created

by the pro-Bush conservative media from day one, to distract from who the REAL culprits were in 2000.

[hfojvt]

46. Day one? It was talked about at least 60 days before the election.

Reporter: What if your campaign helps Bush to win?

Nader: I don't care.

He was wrong not to care then, and he was wrong to have never apologized. And his defenders still think it is about Florida. http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/118

[RaleighNCDUer]

47. Again, it was the MEDIA setting that up. Nader KNEW that

he would not cause Bush to win, so the question, and answer, were both nonsense.

He didn't apologize because he had nothing to apologize for.

And you know what? EVERY subsequent investigation has proved him right.

[hfojvt]

73. your own answer seems to be nonsense

How could Nader know that he couldn't cause Bush to win, when he actually did cause Bush to win?

And I don't know what investigations you are talking about.

Electoral math is really pretty simple. With candidates A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H. The one who gets the most votes wins. Even if the combined total of B,C,D,E,F,G, and H are more than the votes that A got. As long as A gets more than the second place B, then A wins. If the dupes who voted for C,D,E,F,G, and H don't want A to win, then they had better vote for B.

It becomes tougher in a 3-way race if A is at 36%, B at 33% and C at 31%. In that case, considering the uncertainties, then C might as well stay and battle it out. With some hard work and luck, C is just as likely to win as any other candidate. But a candidate at less than 10% is nothing but a spoiler, and is certainly to blame if B loses by less than the margin of their votes.

[RaleighNCDUer]

99. You say that as if Nader took huge numbers from Gore -

I believe it was the NY Times investigation showed that if the votes had been completely honestly counted Gore would have won DESPITE the votes that Nader got.

It was the vote counting that cost Gore the election - not Nader. 'Nader cost Gore the election' is a meme promoted by the RW media, the GOP and their DLC allies to shut down progressive voices.

A meme which you work overtime to promote.

[hfojvt]

131. I put my time in to promote the truth

and Nader did not need to take huge numbers from Gore.

"Gore lost New Hampshire by 7,211 votes or 1.27% and Nader took 3.91%. Was New Hampshire gonna be stolen anyway (as the argument goes about Florida). Change New Hampshire into the Gore column and Bush has 267 electoral votes to 270 for Gore and disaster is averted.

Gore won Iowa by 4,144 votes or .31% where Nader took 29,374
Gore won Wisconsin by 5,708 votes or .22% where Nader took 94,070
Gore won Minnesota by 58,607 votes or 2.4% where Nader took 126,696
Gore won New Mexico by 366 votes or .06% where Nader took 21,251
Gore won Oregon by 6,765 votes or .44% where Nader took 77,357
Gore lost Tennessee by 80,229 votes where Nader took 19,781 and was not really a factor, but Gore might have campaigned there or run more ads there if he was not worried about losing Florida, Iowa, Wisconsin, Oregon, Minnesota, New Hampshire or New Mexico."

That Gore could have won Florida with a more honest count does not change what happened in New Hampshire, Iowa, Wisconsin, Oregon, New Mexico, Minnesota or Tennessee. Just think, if another 16,987 progressives had switched from Gore to Nader and the press could have talked about a Bush electoral college landslide as Iowa, Wisconsin, New Mexico, and Oregon would slip into the Bush column.

I would like to see progressives take over the Democratic Party. What I want to shut down is counter-productive splinterism that just empowers both Republicans and the DLC.

[Gman]

77. So then why were people "trading" votes between states

so as to try to make sure Gore carried states to win where it was close and to also try to get Nader the 3% (?) he needed to get on the ballot 4 years later. Nader's staff knew they were screwing it up and did it anyway by trying to find a safety valve that didn't work. Nader had no business on the ballot.

[NorthCarolina]

54. ...

:rofl:

[bluestate10]

27. Ralph Nader is an idiot. nt

[Cleita]

29. Hasn't he already had his fifteen minutes of fame? n/t

[themadstork]

31. So what did Bush do that Obama hasn't?

Aside from campaigning as a repub.

[JoePhilly]

45. Lie about WMDs, invade Iraq, waterboard someone? nt

[FrenchieCat]

32. Nader and Minister Farakkahn......

are on the same side. Kewl!

I'm with Rev. Desmond Tutu and Samantha Power on this one.

[ecstatic]

34. Who would take over? Biden or Boehner?

[joeybee12]

35. He didn't give us Bush-Cheney--cowardly dems who wouldn't fight a stolen election did...nt

[Scurrilous]

37. @#$% Ralph Nader. n/t

[MilesColtrane]

38. "former presidential candidate "?

Hardly

Ralph is running, baby.

One last flameout in a blaze of glory, while ensuring a Republican White House through 2016.

At least the old fuck probably won't be around for the election cycle after that.

[madinmaryland]

39. This should be good!

:popcorn:

[madinmaryland]

41. madinmaryland: Nader should STFU!

[TheCowsCameHome]

42. Unsafe at any

age.

Go away Ralph.

[WilliamPitt]

44. Gad zooks.

(fa-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-cepalm)

[BzaDem]

48. Says the enabler of all of Bush's war crimes. n/t

[stevenleser]

50. The only thing Nader really cares about is Nader.

I could go into all the reasons why this logic fails, but what is really the point?

[AsahinaKimi]

52. Mr. Nader? Where were you during Bush Cheney?

eom.

[ReggieVeggie]

94. with all due respect, Asahina...

Nader was calling for Bush's impeachment while Democrats were enabling him

[quiller4]

55. Nader is a pretentious fool I do not understand why anything he says

is picked up by the press. It isn't like this is a slow news day.

[SidDithers]

59. Fuck Ralph Nader...nt

Sid

[Gman]

122. +1

[G_j]

61. my second unrec of 2011

for the false assertion of your end comment.

[Karmadillo]

62. Noam Chomsky: ‘President Obama Is Involved In War Crimes Right Now’

http://www.mediaite.com/online/noam-chomsky-president-obama-is-involved-in-war-crimes-right-now/

Noam Chomsky: ‘President Obama Is Involved In War Crimes Right Now’

<edit>

What are your thoughts on President Obama?

He’s involved in war crimes right now. For example, targeted assassinations are war crimes. That’s escalated quite sharply under Obama. If you look at WikiLeaks, there are a lot of examples of attacks on civilians.

What did you think when he was given the Nobel Peace Prize?

Considering the history of the Nobel Peace Prize, it’s not the worst example. It was given to him before he had the time to commit many war crimes.

Is there any point in us being in Afghanistan?

We wouldn’t have asked in 1985: “Is there any point in the Russians being in Afghanistan?” The fact is that the invasion was a crime. Then comes the question: “Is there any point in continuing?” But that presupposes legitimacy. Putting aside questions of morality and legality and simply asking about the goals of the US government is a very narrow consideration.

more...

[Blue-Jay]

65. Fred Flintstone: 'Yabba Dabba Doo'

Gary Coleman: "Whatchu talking 'bout, Willis?"

Bruce Campbell: "Well that's just what we call pillow talk, baby."

[AtomicKitten]

108. --

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-42zqPVFu1Vo/TXDTUZdD-3I/AAAAAAAABZE/v_qPYmCaVfw/s1600/smiley+gif.gif

[Arkana]

64. Seriously, Ralph?

SERIOUSLY?!

[WinkyDink]

66. Please tell me Ralph said this at ANY time 2003-2008. Because otherwise...?

GTH, Nader.

[Karmadillo]

70. He is consistent. No look forward, not backwards for him.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/05/nader-calls-for.html

Nader Calls for Bush-Cheney Impeachment
May 23, 2008 1:48 PM

ABC News' Yunji de Nies reports: Independent presidential hopeful Ralph Nader spoke outside the White House Friday, calling for the impeachment of President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney.

Nader said the President has, "dishonored the White House and brought a pattern of waste."

"A wasteful defense is a weak defense and a weak defense, inspires waste," Nader said.

Surrounded by a handful of supporters, holding signs which read "From Katrina to Iraq, Colossal Failure," and "Resign Bush-Cheney, Like Nixon-Agnew," Nader charged that the President and Vice President are currently committing five impeachable offenses, on a daily basis, including: criminal use of offense against Iraq; condoned and approved systematic torture; arresting thousands of Americans -- denying them habeas corpus and violating attorney/client privilege; signing 800 signing statements, precluding the president from actually having to follow the laws he signs; and systematic spying on Americans without judicial approval.

more...

[WinkyDink]

110. I know I gave the timeline, but he waited until MAY 2008??! Maybe because HE was running again??

FIVE YEARS PLUS after the Invasion, AND THEN HE CALLS FOR IMPEACHMENT?

Notice how Nader worked in criticism of Obama, too.

[Karmadillo]

114. Will 2004 make you happy?

And where was Obama on impeachment during your timeline?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C04E3DC143EF936A15756C0A9629C8B63

Nader Calls for Impeachment of Bush Over the War in Iraq
By THOMAS J. LUECK
Published: May 25, 2004.

Ralph Nader, the independent candidate for president, condemned President George W. Bush yesterday as a ''messianic militarist'' who should be impeached for pushing the nation into a war in Iraq ''based on false pretenses.''

Mr. Bush's actions ''rise to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors,'' Mr. Nader said in a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations in Manhattan. He said Mr. Bush had exceeded his authority in the face of widespread opposition at home and abroad.

''The founding fathers did not want the declaration of war put in the hands of one man,'' he said, contending that United States foreign policy goals are being hindered because the president tends to ''talk like an out-of-control West Texas sheriff.''

Mr. Nader said the White House should set a specific date before the end of 2004 to withdraw American troops. At the same time, he said he would advocate internationally supervised elections in Iraq.

more...

[Raine]

67. STFU Nader

and go back under that slimey rock you crawled out from under! :grr:

[Ramulux]

75. God I love Nader

Hes one of the few true liberals we have left in this country. Obama should rot in jail for the rest of his life for his continued support of the war in Afghanistan, those dead women and children are now his responsibility.

[Tesha]

79. Someday, probably pretty soon, Ralph Nader will die.

And with Ralph-the-Bogeyman gone, it will be interesting
to see who DUers then blame for Democratic election losses.
I'm sure they'll find someone to blame other than poor
candidates with poor platforms and poor performance in
office.

Tesha

Improtant note: I have never voted for Nader, so don't
bother with the usual childish ripostes.

[Ikonoklast]

85. Not soon enough, he should have checked out before Bush/Gore.

All Ralph ever cared about is Ralph.

He is like Palin, using the presidential runs to raise money from the gullible...none of which he has ever disclosed.

[Tesha]

86. Do you have any actual proof of any of that?

Or is that just another cheap attack on a guy who
has a pretty steady moral compass since, oh, 1960
or so?

Tesha

[Ikonoklast]

128. Easily found on the intrawebs.

When it comes to money, his foundations, and his family members who run them, Nader is most secretive.

He is not the person he pretends to be.

He is just another trial lawyer with a good gimmick that got him very rich.

[Tesha]

133. Ahh, the Intrawebs!

That fount of the absolute unbiased truth. ;)

I notice you didn't provide any links to this "easily
found" data.

Tesha

[jmowreader]

81. jmowreader: Nader should be jailed for causing the disaster of 2001-2008

Approximately 100 percent of the problems facing America right now can be attributed to Ralph Nader making the 2000 election close enough for Bush to steal.

[ReggieVeggie]

88. hahahahaha! what an old, toothless argument

[Ramulux]

118. You are right

While were at it we might as well make it a crime to even run as a third party. We should all blame the guy who simply ran a legitimate, principled campaign rather than the millions of people who voted for him.

Seriously, who cares about democracy, if someone funnels away votes from the democratic candidate they obviously need to be put in jail.

[howaboutme]

87. Bush should have been impeached but Nancy Pelosi and Ds opposed it

I'll never forgive and forget this because it did set the stage for more of the same. Exactly what Bill Moyers, and others said would happen. Once the rules are broken without accountability there is no going back. I put country before Party.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

[mac56]

95. There's a guy like Ralph Nader in every small town bar.

Sitting on a bar stool, getting hammered on shitty beer, blaring on about how he once was a stud and a star, and bitching about "the new guy in charge." Pathetic really.

[Chef Eric]

98. Right, pathetic. Because Ralph Nader has accomplished so little in life.

Unlike you.

[mac56]

103. Okay

I used to admire him. He accomplished great things in the past. I wish I could have achieved a fraction of what he once accomplished. Unfortunately, he pissed it all away due to his ego and hubris. He's not the man he once was. Deal with it.

[Chef Eric]

111. There is nothing for me to "deal" with, because I don't have a problem with him.

Thanks anyway.

[Bluebear]

120. :)

[Joe the Revelator]

102. Ralph Nader: Friend of terrorist dictators.

[ReggieVeggie]

106. ummm....just...what the fuck are you talking about?

[Joe the Revelator]

115. I think my post was pretty clear

[Bluebear]

113. LOL! Blame the messenger!

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ButterflyBlood]

124. Nader: No one gives a fuck what you think you piece of shit

Go fuck yourself Nader.

[girl gone mad]

125. Nader "has all the blood of Iraq and Afghanistan on HIS hands."??

Really??

Sometimes I wonder why I read DU. Between the nuke nuts who think U-235 doesn't fission and the paranoid nuts who think Nader stole their birthday, there are some strange people here.

[Karmadillo]

132. +1

nt

[Throd]

126. That irrelevant lamprey is still north of the dirt?

[Toucano]

127. I don't care who it comes from, the truth is the truth. Nader is seldom wrong.

The reaction here demonstrates exactly what is wrong the the walking-dead American left.

[Change Happens]

136. Nader = Loony left!

[ReggieVeggie]

139. I thought he wa a Republican plant!

The haters should get their stories straight

[Major Hogwash]

137. Unsafe at any age.

And getting more senile with each passing Presidential election cycle.

[spanone]

138. i didn't hear much from ralph while bu$h* was fucking us over

[ReggieVeggie]

140. You weren't paying attention

He was saying more against Bush than most Democrats were

[hayu_lol]

143. Interesting that the Greenies continue to hope for a history-

revision of their disastrous relationship with that very good friend of Grover Norquist--ya know, that Albatross Ralph Nader...the cross they will eternally bear.

For you young followers of this veritable fountainhead of wisdom, the Corvair was one hell of a car...small and fuel efficient at a time when most cars were becoming monsters.

Ralph is no-one's hero...and as such a non-person, will go down in history as a self-serving SOB.

[ReggieVeggie]

144. according to a partisan who blames Nader for everything under the sun

[dkofos]

142. But we don't impeach for war crimes.

[JackDragna]

146. Once again, Nader gets villified here for telling the truth.

Here's some news flashes for your party apologists: Nader is in no way responsible for Iraq, Afghanistan or the failure of Al Gore to win the 2000 presidential election. Al Gore ran a tepid, tired campaign in which his political opponents were able to portray him as a pompous liar without so much as a decent response from him. He performed poorly in the debates. The problems with counting the votes in Florida, had they been rectified, would have been more than enough to give Gore the state's electoral votes. I also don't see the people here going after the many small leftist parties whose votes, had they been Democratic, would have given Gore the state as well.
If you blame Nader for the election, you suffer from the same problem affecting many people who cannot see the huge problems with Obama: you fail to see how the party's own shortcomings, including its slide to the right, has alienated some of its constituents.

[Gman]

147. No, Nader is flat out wrong

cleaning up Bush's and the neocon's messes does not qualify as war crimes.

Gore ran an excellent campaign. THe simple truth is had Nader not been on the ballot, Gore would have won. Nader knew as did everyone else from history, that when a VP runs, for prez it is a very close election. Look at 1968. There are others. Nader's own ego caused everything, I mean EVERYTHING that happened from 2001 even up through the present.

[JackDragna]

148. No, that's far from a "simple truth."

No sitting vice-president should have a problem beating an opponent when said vice-president is extremely popular. How can you say Gore ran a great campaign? His responses to the whole "I was the inspiration for "Love Story" and "invented the internet" thing was pathetic. It is not the job of political leftists to run for cover when the big, bloated pseudo-liberal monstrosity the Democratic Party has become is in a tight race with the Republicans.

[Gman]

149. The Love Story and Internet things happened well over a year before the election

it was shortly after the Internet comment (which was widely misconstrued) that he move his HQ to Nashville to get the campaign away from DC and into the mainstream where advisers had some sense. (IIRC) That was about 18 months before the election.

Humphrey in '68, Nixon in '60 are both examples of VP's that ran and lost in extremely close elections. We knew all along it would be a hard uphill fight with Gore. Everyone knew that, including Nader. Nader split the progressives off when every single vote mattered. In light of the fact that we now know the GOP has paid workers to get signatures for Nader to get him on the ballots in 04 and 08 and paid legal fees when those bogus signatures were challenged (and rightfully so), frankly I wouldn't be surprised to find out Nader was taking money from the GOP to do just what he did in 00. I'm sure in some denial way he's got himself convinced he did the right thing. Denial is all he has for protection from his conscience considering what he caused to happen to the entire world.

[mac56]

150. wish I could recommend this reply

:applause:

[JackDragna]

152. What "he" caused. When is this party going to own up..

..to the enormous shortcomings and failures of its rightward slide? Nader wouldn't have been any more of a factor that year than any other election year if Gore hadn't both come off as a little less than friendly to liberals and as such a droll, lifeless campaigner. If he would've fixed these things, the election would've been in the bag. I don't care how long it took the whole Love Story and Internet thing to pop up before the election - I remember both incidents well, and they dogged him until the day of the election. Would it have killed him to strongly rebuke both statements? Instead, he took the "high road" and hoped acting dignified and professional would work. It didn't. Ask John Kerry about being swiftboated.

It is time for this bloody party to grow up, fight back and not blame our losses on third-party movements. I said it before, and I'll say it again: liberals who are uncomfortable voting for Democratic candidates do not owe the party a vote in close elections. If we want them to vote for us, we have to present them with candidates and a political plank that will make us seem like a viable alternative. When we blame Ralph Nader for our problems, a man who keeps being right about just about everything he talks about, and keep cheering on Obama as he pushes for conservative policies, we send people the message that the Democratic-Republican battle is nothing more than a fight between two "teams" who happen to disagree politically.

[midnight armadillo]

154. How old are you, really?

"Gore ran an excellent campaign."

I can only conclude you were a child in 2000 too caught up in Pokemon to pay attention to the presidential campaign.

[DinahMoeHum]

153. "I don't think I've ever met a bigger asshole" - Bob Weir (Grateful Dead)

talking about Nader.

Rolling Stone, issue 959, page 70. (October 24, 2004)

"...Ralph Nader is the most arrogant and narcissistic guy I've ever met. I had a meeting with him in the early nineties. I was jazzed going into the meeting, and I was disgusted leaving. I don't think I've ever met a bigger asshole..."