I'll admit that with the rest of the world, I've been distracted by Japan

[tavalon]

That said, are the Libyan rebels who are asking for UN support different in some fundamental way from the Egyptians? Sure, the Egyptians didn't want our help but their despot wasn't shooting from the sky. I'm confused as to why we are calling this a war when it seems to be responding to asked for help. Am I missing something? I admit freely that I have yet to do the research necessary to understand the ins and outs of what's happening in Libya. I would prefer not to be taken to task about that but would appreciate a short encapsulation of what is and has been happening there since Japan was destroyed.

[Kolesar]

1. When the Soviet Union dissolved, the Clinton government funded radio stations in Russia

...to help establish an independent media in that country. A free press is essential for a new democracy. I hope the world can help Libya to establish a democracy with the rule of law.

[tavalon]

2. But I asked about whether were going to war

Are we? Have we?

[quinnox]

3. Well, firing guided missiles and controlling a countries airspace are

generally considered acts of war. Try to imagine if we here in the Untied States were fired on by missiles, I'm pretty sure we would consider that an act of war.

[JackintheGreen]

4. I'm kind of with the OP

"War" these days is as much a legal category as anything. It is an act of defensive aggression sanctioned by several world bodies (UN, Arab League, League of African Nations maybe?). So, together with my query earlier on the constitutionality of this, more philosophically, is it "war" if only one side sees it as such? Sure Qadaffi sees it as war, but I also think he might arguably be mad.

[TBF]

5. Here is some material on the oil aspect -

I did a journal on this yesterday morning and included many additional articles in the threads: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TBF/41

I'm convinced we are involved due to the oil (as opposed to when we didn't get involved in Darfur and Rwanda). Others will argue that it is purely humanitarian (I'll leave it to them to make their arguments).

It is a lot to digest right now, in both the Libya and certainly Japan.

[JackintheGreen]

6. I'm not so sure

Oil reserves or no, less than 5% of world demand is supplied by Libya. And the biggest share of that is controlled by European companies (proximity). Two US companies, Conoco and Hess, each control less than 5% of that. That isn't enough to justify US involvement: at most 10% control of 5% of the world's oil production.

Now, if you want to get more conspiratorial, perhaps Europe has schemed to get the US involved due to our greater military strength in order to protect their oil interests, but Gazprom control about 7.5% percent by themselves and Russia blocked action, and ENI (Italian) controls 12% (more than Hess and Conoco combined) and they are hardly a force in the UN, certainly not a bosom friend like Britain, France, or Germany. I'm not sure I buy it.

[TBF]

7. Big supplier to Europe -

and the western oil companies have good contracts there. However, recently, Gadaffi was making noises about making contracts with China, India, and Brazil (cutting into that billion dollar business). So, I think that is why this went sour.

Thanks for your comments, though, I am open to discussion. We've all been focused on Japan while this was brewing, so folks are just starting to really delve into this and do research on it to figure out what's going on.

[JackintheGreen]

8. I did mention that

But it's the actual European players that are most interesting to me. To reiterate, Russia's Gazprom is a big player, and they blocked action. This could be for a variety of reasons: to avoid disruption to their supply, to contradict the will of their European (and US) counterparts, etc. And as you point out, PetroChina is making inroads, or trying to, and they also blocked action. But Italy has a huge presence their (again, proximity), and that no doubt has something to do with European interest, but Italy by themselves are not such a force in Europe that they can strongarm opinion in the UN, I think. I could be wrong. The rest of Europe may know what side their bread is buttered on and the likes of Germany and France seem to despise Gazprom.

Now, movement into India and Brazil are more interesting. I wasn't aware of India, but Petrobras I think is at least interested, if not already present. That could certainly be a motivator for the like of ENI and certainly Gazprom. I don't know why Russia eventually agreed to action, or at least agreed not to stand in the way, but I wouldn't put it past them to pull the strings to give Petrobras the boot. Anyway, *I* need to focus more on my dissertation and less on Japan and Libya. So food for later thought.

Cheers.

[TBF]

9. Thank you for the detail -

It has been interesting looking into this, and certainly is not a black/white issue. Good luck with your dissertation.