Religion to become extinct, says model of census data

[brooklynite]

Source: BBC

A study using census data from nine countries shows that religion there is set for extinction, say researchers.

The data reflect a steady rise in those claiming no religious affiliation.

The team's mathematical model attempts to account for the interplay between the number of religious respondents and the social motives behind being one.

...snip...

The team took census data stretching back as far as a century from countries in which the census queried religious affiliation: Australia, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

---

Meanwhile, we have the Creation Museum and now the Magical Ark...

[Orrex]

1. Talk about mass extinction!

[SharonAnn]

70. I wish the united States was one of those countries. It couldn't happen soon enough for me.

Though I'm a Christian, I'm surrounded by a type of fundamentalist, right-wing, belligerent theocracy that I'd love to see go extinct.

[joeglow3]

79. You honestly think flawed humans would not find something else to manipulate?

nt

[ClarkUSA]

2. If the South seceded, the remainder of the US would be amongst those nations in the survey.

Just joking. Kinda. ;)

Actually, religion is winking out amongst the 20-something set, according to a national survey recently. I don't have the link but it was noted by Andrew Sullivan at The Atlantic late last year.

[Liquorice]

28. It's true that the South is generally more religious, and some of that

has to do with the African-American community, which has by far the highest rate of religiosity at 87%.

[quaker bill]

38. That and the fact

that our governments in the south leave us a bit more to pray about....

[ClarkUSA]

83. Do you have any link to that statistic? I'd think Hispanics and white Southerners are as religious.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Couldn't happen fast enough. nt

[Frisbee]

5. Amen to that!

:)

[Chef Eric]

56. A big, SECULAR amen! nt

[TheDebbieDee]

7. I agree.......I'm counting the months!

[sce56]

12. Don't worry a meteorite will land at the Vatican and they will say it is a message from GOD

Hey it worked for the Muslims!

[idrahaje]

13. not sure if I am pushing for the end of the world but oh well

State Run media in America. yeah I can see the end soon.

[Demeter]

4. From Your Lips to God's Ears!

just joking!

[Faux pas]

36. I knew it was a joke and I laughed, thanks.

[Psephos]

6. Thus showing the inanity of relying on models of reality...

Model lovers seem forever blind to the epistemological insufficiencies of induction.

Meanwhile, religion is a universal feature of all human cultures across all historical times. I rather doubt it's going on the endangered species list any time soon.

:)

[darkstar3]

29. I doff my cap to an amazing Poe.

[Psephos]

96. And I in turn doff mine to a deviously nuanced Poe's Paradox.

[elocs]

8. Yeah, I'd start holding my breath on that one since is will likely happen any day now.

Well, maybe not.

Is it possible for somebody to be religious without claiming religious affiliation?

[Hardrada]

9. How is this true? Is Israel becoming non-religious? Is Iran?

Are they only talking about Christianity? It would seem so. Is Buddhism vanishing? I am not sure the other world religions are vanishing.

[Codeine]

92. The OP clearly states which nations are included. nt

[Hardrada]

99. Perhaps I was being a bit too enthymematic. What I was getting

at, of course, is that all these so-called studies lately seem to be sniping at organized Christianity and not any of the other Great World Religions. And why is that, pray tell? Those of us of a Christian background are flattered by all the attention but wonder about the impending secularity of everyone else.

[riderinthestorm]

10. My children are utterly uninterested in religion.

While I'm an atheist now, I grew up in a deeply evangelical house going to church or church activities 6 days out of 7, sometimes twice a day. I became an atheist before my kids were born so when that time came, I told them I'd be happy to explore any and ALL religions with them in order for them to decide on their own what they believed.

Meh. Not interested. They know I know all the "facts and figures" on Christianity as it were, and that I spent years after leaving my evangelical roots exploring many different religions, so they intimately know I'm not afraid of them being curious.

But they're not.

Can't force them to "believe". And frankly, now that they are older, I'm relieved they're not religious. That's not to say they may never go there but they've already developed lovely moral systems and secular support groups and humanity enriching activities that aren't religion based. I can't see why they'd suddenly choose "religion" over volunteering at the local food bank....

Surprises may happen but their moral code isn't based on religion and I don't ever see them "going there" for any reason.

[Saphire]

47. very well stated. it's the same in our home.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

11. I don't think so.

Remember what Einstein said about the two things he thought were infinite, but wasn't sure about one of them?

[Proletariatprincess]

14. This is good news....

but how ironic it is that at this very time the US Congress is codifying "In God We Trust" as the nation's motto.
Remember when it used to be Upluribus Unium? (I know I butchered the spelling on that...but you get the idea). It was changed during the 50s Commie scare to demonstrate that we are a "christian nation". Well..we aren't and never were. But we sure as hell were an anti-commie nation...and still are for the most part.
What twaddle. And what profound long term damage was done to the national phsyche in those cold war years. Now, unlike other nations, we can not even consider any solution to any of our many problems that hints the least bit of socialism. That is a great loss. But, we have "god" on our coins and thats what really counts, right?

[Zoeisright]

15. From your lips ...

... to god's ears.

LOL! Couldn't resist.

[Teaser]

16. good

.

[8 track mind]

17. works for me

the sooner the better

[Blacksheep214]

18. This is intelligent design?

I reject all organized religion which has some supreme creator. How can anyone say this is intelligent when living creatures tear other living creatures to bits in order to eat? This unthinkable violence just does not go with an organized, peaceful religion or any deity.

Like the kid who saw Grandpa in heaven wearing wings. What would the kid have seen if he weren't indoctrinated into this fairy tale?

[AtheistCrusader]

19. NOT SOON ENOUGH

[slay]

90. +1

i think a lot of people are "high on god" - or their idea of god or what not. i say this having seen evangelical events on tv, and having gone to many Grateful Dead shows. same type of swaying, jumping up and down, following a presence "larger than themselves" etc.

<-- Evangelical church . <-- Grateful Dead show

Granted the Grateful Dead show had a larger crowd - but then again they are WAY cooler too. :evilgrin:

[Liberty Belle]

20. Aw hell, now the missionaries know where to go. n/t

[cui bono]

21. Please god, make it so. Let us pray.

[Divine Discontent]

22. this has probably been said for as long as there's been people who believe in a higher power.

[mackerel]

23. Religion extinct...Let it be so.

[Solly Mack]

24. K&R

[stevedeshazer]

25. +1, please dear god make it so.

[old mark]

26. I don't believe it, but I will applaud if it should happen....nt

[kristopher]

27. I don't think that is possible.

IMHO only: We have a need for an agent to effect causation in random events.

For example, suppose you have a huge fight with a loved one, wish in you heart for that person to "die", and the next day they get in an auto accident and get killed.

Your rational mind tells you that this is a random occurrence, not your fault; but the guilt that you feel cannot be assuaged.

Listen to people tell stories of the incidents that "led them to God" and see if you think it applies.

It isn't just guilt, the need to change a "correlation without causation" event to a "correlation with causation" event applies across a wide range of circumstances.

Organized religion might be on its way out, but that doesn't usher in a human psyche dominated by rationality.

Again, just MHO.

[callous taoboy]

42. I gave up magical thinking years ago. It is a choice, like everything else.

[kristopher]

43. It isn't universal, but I'd bet your make-up at birth allowed it. nt

[kenny blankenship]

30. Thank God!

I don't think I could take another millennium of this bullshit.

[happyslug]

31. This is actually more frightening then you think

Generally religious affiliation membership tracks membership in other social groups, including non-religious groups. People get to worried about themselves and their immediate family so they ignore problems in their community. That being the case, such people do NOT join ANY group, they become loners.

This was noticed in the 1990s when people started to point out the number of people who were NOT joining bowling leagues, even while bowling held its own on total number of people bowling. People just could NOT meet up and do things together.

I notice the people doing this research tied it in with the lost of languages, but again people speak a language NOT to hear themselves speak, but to interact with other people. Thus you speak a language to interact with other people. You stop speaking a language if it is no longer useful for that purpose. The researchers are trying to make the same connection with religion i.e. the lack of affiliation is based on the lack of use, but the underlying problem is the lack of the people to interact. i.e. people do not join churches just to follow a religion, they join church like they join ANY social organization, to meet and interact with people. if you are so busy that you can NOT join a church, you are often to busy to join any other social group. Such people tend to interact most often with fellow workers, but if fellow workers live in different neighborhoods (More and more common today) if that interconnection dies out.

My point is simple, this is more frightening for it shows how more and more people just do NOT have the time or the ability to interact as a member of a community. Maybe it is my labor background, Labor unions first came out of social groups (Social groups that first provided life insurance for members of the group for no one else would provide them insurance, so the members of that profession formed their own insurance group, that later was the base actual unions came from, furthermore most such social groups came out of churches were the later members attended). If you read about the Homestead strike and its aftermath, you notice one thing, as the Union was bring formed, so were various social groups for the benefit of Homestead as a whole, after the strike people who tend to join such groups were black balled by the employer, for the leadership of the Union that went on strike in 1892 against Carnegie steel, had also been the people who formed various social groups and had been leaders of their churches. Such "Joiners" were disliked after 1892, so while most churches survived, most saw drastic drop off in membership as did all of the social groups that had been formed in the years before the strike.

One of the facts behind being a member of a church and any other social group (Including little league) is a tendency to work with others for the betterment of the community. One submits to the demand of the group, so as a member of that group, the group as a whole does better. One of the side affects of the lost in income since 1970 for most workers, the increase level of debts for the same workers AND the greater demands as to time on the job of such workers (including the requirement that such employees work weekends) is that most workers today have less time to work with others and as such do not have time to work for the betterment of their communities.

Thus the drop in church membership is more tied in with the general decline in the ability of people to get together and work together then anything else, and as such something to be feared not applauded.

Another related factor is how often people move, thus they have to form new contacts with their community with each move. People need to interact, but sooner or later you do NOT want to many, if you have to move sooner or later. This further breaks down the ability of people to form social groups. We are headed for a society where most people have only a very tenuous attachment to the society they work and live in. That is never good for it leads to breakup of society in times of crisis (Social Groups are what people fall back in in times of crisis, no social groups, no place to go, and thus no safety net to fall into). I like the net and I use the net but it can not and does not replace face to face contact and the interaction among people in my community. A healthy community has a lot of people working together for various improvements, an unhealthy community is a collection of individuals guarding they some crumbs from everyone else. We had heading for the later given this data.

Side Note: This is one more data showing we are heading back to the 1890s. Similar drop in church affiliation occurred in the late 1800s, early 1900s as the poor got poorer and the rich got richer. We had similar drops in the rate of Marriages, delay in age of marriage and even a similar rate of babies born to unmarried women today as we saw in the 1890s. These numbers only started to reverse in the 1930s (and tend to peak in the 1960s) as sociality changed do to the New Deal and the Social Affect of the Great Depression (You has a "baby bust" starting about 1927 till 1947 do to the great Depression and WWII, and a raise in church attendance, little leagues, bowling leagues and other social groups in the 1940s and 1950s as communities members became more active in the community. These trends are more interrelated then a lot of people would like to accept and why the drop in church affiliation is not necessity good

Second Side Note: One of the earliest areas of the Western World with a huge lack of Church Affiliation was the American South before and after the American Revolution. This trend continued till about 1900 (Even surviving the US Civil War). Since that time period Church affiliation has increased in the South, but not to the old mainline churches but to the fundamentalist churches. Thus, be careful what you ask for, a lack of church attendance may lead to a people joining a new more radical religion movement (this is what happened in the American South after the Revolution and continues today).

[anneboleyn]

32. Good point: says more about lack of people willing to join groups than religion itself.

I know that some researchers have commented on this -- arguing that human interaction is changing, increasing isolation and "individualism," "loner" mentality, etc.

[happyslug]

34. And has to be fought

People are social animals, we NEED to belong to larger groups. Employers wants us to be only member of their group i.e. their employees, but then not as a group (that would lead to unionization) but as individuals. Not joining any social group isolate us from the other people in society and that is never good for society.

[nolabels]

57. As a loner myself i think the evidence points the other way

Religion is going to keep on taking hits as long as lives in fairy tales. As for other types of social interaction we always will be able to function better with each other rather than alone. The selfishness of man is only supplanted by the laziness of man. There are lots of things that are changing but most of the results make us more dependent on one another than ever before. This from a guy that tries do everything himself :shrug:

If you looking for fun things to do and expect others to provide it then you might have a problem (i don't know). As for being happy, it is best found from within (IMO)

[Raine]

35. GREAT insight, THANKS! nt

:thumbsup:

[Brickbat]

44. Did you see the list of countries this article was talking about?

[happyslug]

59. Yes, I did, many with the same problem of dis-association as the US

Reaganomics was not only practiced in the US and Britain, it was practiced throughout Europe. These neo-liberal economic policies were expanded into Eastern Europe after the fall of the Berlin Wall (Britons and other Europeans are constantly complaining of the number of Poles and other Eastern Europeans taking their jobs in Britain and the rest of western Europe). If you have a sizable part of your population moving about for jobs, it will have an affect on employment of even native born people (This seems to have been the cause of a lot of disruption in the US employment in the late 1800s and why anti-immigration fever took hold at that time and finally lead to the closing of the US to such immigrants after 1921).

Immigration and decline in employees time off work seems to be tied in (Time off, while employed NOT while on unemployment). As immigration goes up, income and time off work goes down. Employers like both, employees hate both. This also leads to less time available for people to join social groups, even in a country like the Netherlands.

My point is this drop in time off work leads to a drop in the time people can use to form and be active in social groups. This includes Churches, but includes Little Leagues and even Volunteer Fire Departments. Yes, you do not have either in the Netherlands, but there are other similar social groups in regards to people getting together on a constant basis (Not people mingling as individuals, but people working as teams together). All of these type of social groups are in decline in most countries do to the decline in time off work while employed.

[Mimosa]

49. +100 and totally agree

Very insightful post, Happyslug.

I do not attend churches now. But I used to, different denominations. Studies have shown people who regularly attend religious services are happier and suffer less from depression than those who don't.

There are all sorts of churches, temples, mosques. And all sots of people. On D.U. sometimes a few people seem to think all churches are full of right wing fundamentalists. That's just silly.

[undeterred]

64. Excellent post.

[FredStembottom]

66. A book for you: The Great Good Place by Ray Oldenburg

All of what you speak about above may have a fairly simple cause.

Oldenburg argues that until recently most people in communities lived in 3 places

Home
Work
3rd Place

That 3rd place was often bars and pubs - but could be others.
It was a place less rigid than the workplace (where you basically lose your rights for 8 hours), nearly as comfy as Home but not an isolated island like Home.

He finds that during the suburbanization of America we forgot to build a place for community to happen.
We downsized to just work and home.

It's a really enjoyable book as Oldenburg roams the pubs, beer-gardens, outdoor entertainments of the past - and I bet you'll never forget it.

[happyslug]

86. Reminds me of Homestead in 1919

A reporter did a report on Homestead in 1919 and one of the things he notice was that all of the bars were connected to the management of the Steel mills. The bar tender and owners were spies for the mill on the workers, making sure the workers only argued about themselves and did nothing to recruit others for any common cause. It is called one of the most chilly reports on any American City and you wonder why Homestead was died culturally.

The unionization effort of the 1930s actually reviled Homestead to what it had been prior to the 1892 strike, but after WWII, the unionized workforce abandoned Homestead and headed for the suburbs. The first generation of just people often stayed in contact with their friends in the bars and churches of Homestead, but as their children grew up, the connection was broken and you get the sterile outlook of the suburbs you mentioned.

Some aspect of these connections could last for generations, St Michael Catholic Church on the South-Side of Pittsburgh ran a Passion play for lent from 1910 to the present day. Most of the members parents and grand parents played roles in the play since 1910. It is a social gathering more then a true play (and this is characteristics of most passion plays, done today and in the Middle ages). It is a way to get people together (In fact many a family name started based on that family's role in some middle age passion play, thus the numerous bishops, popes, monks as family names, these and many other roles, for example Family names after one of the apostles, Pilate's name, Shepherd etc, were tied in with certain families and those roles became the family name when people re-started to use family names in the late Middle ages). It was a social gathering around a social event of some village.

When the Puritans settled New England, one of the first things they built in any new community was a "Meeting house". This was also a Puritan Church, but was intended for other purposes when a place to hold such other meetings was required. When the Middle West was settled, if the Community was settled by people from New England or the Middle Colonies, the public square was in the center of town and the various protestant church were on that square so after services the people of the various faiths would get together on the public square to talk together on how to improve the town and society in general. Catholic Churches tend to come later and thus NOT on the public square (More do to no place was open on the public square then any other reason), but tend to be only a few blocks away (where the Catholic could find an open spot to build a Catholic Church, close enough to the Public Square so Catholic could interact with the rest of the community. You see this over and over again in in small town America, North of the Mason Dixon line and the Ohio River.

On the other hand you do NOT tend to see this south of the Mason Dixon line and the Ohio River. This is do to the fact the South was settled differently then the North. In the north the most important thing was to build some place for all the people to meet and get together to set up a plan for the community. In the South, such public places were just not built. If a community was formed, it tended to be commercial only with churches built as an afterthought i.e. away from the main section of town. Business was more important then sociality and it reflected in Southern Towns and Cities.

Please note the division was not a sharp line in the dirt but how people form each areas formed their towns and cities. The difference was reported in the 1700s as while as the 1800s. In the Mid-west it was not uncommon for a Southern Town to be North of a Northern town and you could tell the difference by just how the town were set up and maintained. Southern towns tended to be slums and dives, Northern settled towns tended to have a much high grade of living. Now, Northern towns and cities had its slums and bad areas, but these were kept in their place, away form the main business areas and away from where people get together.

Side note, the above reflect the settlement of this country NOT its subsequent industrialization. Industrialization and settlement tend to occur about the same time after about 1840. Industrialization tended to be company run towns as opposed to a town run by the people of that town and as such tended to be dives and slums for industry wanted to pay their workers the least amount. This trend tended to conflict with the above settlement, but in some strange ways.

Just some comment on social grouping, Southern towns and Industrial towns tend NOT to have places for people to meet, while Northern towns tended to make sure one existed from the first day the town was settled. Suburbs are more like industrial towns then Northern towns, designed by one or two people instead of by a large group of people who WANT to be able to interact. Parks, playgrounds, and other places for people to meet was important to the later group of people, but tended to be ignored as not profitable by designers of industrial towns and suburbs.

For more on Pittsburgh Passion play:
http://www.veronicasveilplayers.org/index_files/Page1488.htm

[lumberjack_jeff]

78. Exactly right. A country of loners who believe in magic is no improvement. nt

[JoeyT]

33. It's unlikely religion will ever die out.

Ironically enough, it'll just evolve.

[JCMach1]

37. The sooner irrationality dies the better

[eridani]

39. Given that religious belief grew out of tribalism and xenophobia, I doubt it

With increasing population and exhaustion of resources, favoring the familiar and one's relatives ("I'm in with the in crowd! I believe in exactly the same implausible things that my friends and relatives believe in!") is likely to increase by a lot. The data in the article were derived from currently comfortable societies that are comparatively egalitarian, where citizens can have at least some power over the circumstances of their daily lives. If we'd like to see religion die out, then we'd have to make the rest of the world like these societies. I'm not holding my breath.

[Nye Bevan]

40. The UK has become essentially non-religious.

A very small percentage of the population is religiously observant. And during the election campaign, one of the candidates for PM mentioned that he was an atheist. Everyone shrugged and ignored it and he ended up becoming deputy PM in the coalition.

The abortion debate in the UK is very sane, too, compared to US standards, with religion kept out of it.

[LeftishBrit]

52. In general but with caveats

The UK has a long tradition of politicians and governments who don't 'do God' -from our first Prime Minister Robert Walpole, nearly 300 years ago, onwards. Attlee was openly a nonbeliever; Churchill seems to have been totally indifferent to religion. And right now, two out of the three main party leaders are open atheists. Moreover, those Prime Ministers who were strongly Christian (like Gordon Brown) have not generally interpreted their faith as requiring them to impose social or economic conservativism. Nor on the whole do most bishops and religious leaders exert pressures in this direction.

However, the problem does still exist. Tabloid writers and those for the 'Torygraph' and some politicians take a fervently anti-liberal, anti-secular, socially conservative (usually linking it to being also economically conservative) agenda. Indeed, they frequently attack not only atheists and secularists, but religious leaders seen as too left-wing, notably the Archbishop of Canterbury. You don't actually need to be a Christian to be a promoter of the Christian Right, and some who bitterly lament the decline of Christianity in this country and the 'immorality' of the 'secular left' and wish to impose Christian Right attitudes are themselves atheists (Tebbit, apparently) or members of other religions. In fact, I think that the next stage in the fightback of the British religious right against 'the left' may well involve collaboration between socially conservative Christians and socially conservative Muslims.


'The abortion debate in the UK is very sane, too, compared to US standards, with religion kept out of it.'

Not in Northern Ireland. And unfortunately, last year, not in my Oxford constituency where the local representative of LIFE got heavily involved as a 'concerned citizen' in the General Election; conducted a very nasty smear campaign (abetted by some outside journalists) smearing our former MP as 'Dr Death'; and a number of 'pro-life' anti-secular hardliners then hailed his narrow defeat as 'the best result of the election'. Admittedly, probably we failed to see this coming and to prevent it, just *because* it's rare in England and so came as a surprise. But there are also other places where the MPs seem to be backed by the religious right; notably Nadine Dorries and that utterly revolting sanctimonious 'compassionate conservative' Ian Duncan-Smith: I think he is my most HATED current British politician, though there is strong competition from Osborne and Lansley!.

[Nye Bevan]

55. "most hated"..... obviously, not counting Nick Griffin

and candidates like Nadine Dorries are notable for their rarity in the UK, compared to here in the US.

[LeftishBrit]

61. True; I should have said 'most hated member of the British government'

Nick Griffin's defeat really *was* the best result of a highly frustrating election last year!

[Scuba]

41. Free at last, free at last. From god almighty, we're free at last. n/t

[SoCalDem]

45. Can't happen soon enough..n/t

[CanonRay]

46. I hope I live to see it n/t

[LeftishBrit]

48. Interesting but these are mostly Western countries

There seems to be no decline in religion in the Middle East, India, Pakistan, or Africa, for example.

I also note that the USA was not one of those sampled! Nor were some of the more firmly Christian countries in Europe.

And though Australia is a very secular country, which has had several openly atheist Prime Ministers including the current one - they came within *just one parliamentary seat* of having Christian Right nutter Tony Abbott as their Prime Minister. One example of how a country doesn't have to be very religious to have at least intermittent problems with the Religious Right. E.g. did you know that Evil Secular Britain currently has a powerful Cabinet Minister, and former Tory Party leader, Ian Duncan-Smith - who once co-authored an article on 'compassionate conservativism' with RICK SANTORUM?!

[Township75]

50. The sooner religion dies, the sooner we can get to enjoy an aethist state like the old Soviet Union

complete with gulags, purges, mass starvations, unmatched political corruption, and smashing religious relics to be replaced with massive idols of our glorious leaders for us to worship. BRING IT!

[LeftishBrit]

53. 'Emperor Worship' is just one form of theocratic religion

And Stalinism was just one form of Emperor Worship.

Theocracy of all sorts - from the Inquisition to the Taliban - has had dire results.

I don't expect religion to die, but I very much hope that theocracy and religious-right attitudes *do* die!

[EOTE]

72. Yeah, that's it. It was atheism that brought down the Soviet Union.

Because they no longer had their sky daddy to protect them. You make a rather convincing argument.

[Mojeoux]

102. "And I want to thank God for making me an Athiest."

Riki Gervais

[WinkyDink]

51. This will be news to the Muslim nations. But sadly, look around Europe: the greatest architecture is

because of religion.
Some might argue the greatest art, period, going back to the Parthenon and beyond.
(Contrast, say, with Soviet-style buildings and paintings, or with Communist Chinese.)

Not the greatest science, it is true, but man lives not solely by his knowledge.

Be careful what you wish for.

[sybylla]

58. Who took their money from the people

and used it to collect power onto itself and glorify itself instead of helping "the least" of their followers or creating a fair and safe world for them to live in.

All that beautiful architecture is a monument to fucking my ancestors over.

[Stevenmarc]

54. From your mouth to Gods ears

[Stuckinthebush]

60. Never gonna happen

As nice as that sounds (Imagine no religion!), it goes against human nature.

We are a superstitious species, aren't we? One outdated and silly religion will be replaced with another flashy religion. Or, the religion changes with the times. Look at Christianity. It has changed numerous times in the past 2000 years. Islam? The same. Religion is developed and re-developed over and over and over again to support the fears and insecurities of humans.

The new religions may not look like the old - no invisible being watching our every move. It may be totally different. Say a belief in ordered cosmic purpose that doesn't rely on a deity but is attractive to people with a greater understanding of the universe through science. It could be a resurrection of old and dead religions like paganism that is repackaged for consumption by an intelligent population.

I look at some liberal and moderate "mainstream" denominations and can see a pattern developing. Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and United Church of Christ members are more likely to tell you that they don't take the Bible literally. Some would even tell you that the veracity of events in the Bible are not even at issue - the message is the most important thing to them. I've heard some even privately say to their atheist friend that they aren't very convinced in the existence of a deity. The religion is a social event.

So while these people are becoming more agnostic they still cling to their labels for social purposes. They still give money to their churches and they still have young people who go to seminaries to become CEOs in these organizations. I just don't see them going away.

Religion is also a money maker. As long as there are people on this earth there will be two things - preachers who want to take your money and prostitutes who want to sell you services. Both are big business. Just when you think that people have become too smart to be swayed by religious con-men you see religions like Scientology and Fundamental Christianity reaping big rewards.

So, while this atheist would love to see a utopian society full of logic and mutual respect for life without religion, I don't see it happening.

[TBF]

62. Lakewood here in Houston triped in size in the past 10 years -

http://blogs.chron.com/believeitornot/2011/03/megachurches_getting_bigger_la_1.html

[Ganja Ninja]

63. Having no religious affiliation isn't the same as not believing in superstition.

Crazy doesn't always go to church.

[Javaman]

65. Meh, it will be replaced by something else. nt

[LAGC]

100. Like sports worship?

People can get pretty animated over their favorite teams...

[Javaman]

103. Good observation...

I have seen "christians" worship more at the foot of their teams logo, then they do at their so called churches.

[sarcasmo]

67. Please, oh please, let it be.

[Rage for Order]

68. Flawed premise

Even if the number of people claiming a religious affiliation is reduced by half every year it would never get to zero. It's a rare mathematical model than can be extrapolated to infinity and still be accurate.

[Common Sense Party]

69. I don't think so, and I hope it never happens. n/t

[VoteProgressive]

71. It will happen, and Why????

[snooper2]

73. I figure about 8 generations, 200 years or so..Jesus & Allah will go the way of Santa

All just myths people used to "believe"

[tallahasseedem]

74. Thank God.

[H2O Man]

75. Oh, definitely.

In fact, one can say with certainty that religion will become extinct at the exact moment that human beings become extinct. But not a moment before.

[Maraya1969]

76. I don't think Buddhism will go away anytime soon. It's a guilt free religion.

They were actually speaking about how well the Japanese are handling the crisis and maybe linking it to the beliefs that is a good idea to act like Jesus, (and of course Jesus did not preach guilt) What a concept!

[thereismore]

77. Not in the US, apparently. European nations. nt

[joeybee12]

80. Remember, Man made God in his own image...eventually we'll

grow out of this fantasy.

[hifiguy]

81. That day cannot come quickly enough

for the survival of the species.

[Blue Owl]

82. Oh Lord, Thou Art Not Made Up

Or Art Thou?

[truebrit71]

84. God willing...

:evilgrin:

The day we as a species stop praying to invisible sky-daddies will be when we finally grow-up..

[lunatica]

85. Thank God!

[TNLib]

87. Lol

:rofl:

[RagAss]

88. Read the Gospel of Thomas....so Pro-God...so anti-religion.

[TNLib]

89. I think religion has just become too costly

I know way too many people that feel they have to tithe at least 10% of their income to their churches. That's allot of money. Strangely those same people complain allot about paying taxes.

They also seem to do all these crazy fund raisers to get money for the church. I think without churches people would be more willing to pay their fair share of taxes, have more free time and have more disposable income.

[backscatter712]

91. The day religion dies can't come soon enough. n/t

[devils chaplain]

93. And peaceful countries, those nine.

The same can't be said for areas that are hotbeds of religious fervor. God doesn't seem to care too much for believers.

[drokhole]

94. Whereas I'll be glad to see organized religion go the way of the dodo...

...I hope to see the realization of a deeper connection to each other, Nature, and the greater cosmos find its footing. And, as Joseph Campbell might say, to understand the underlying "Elementary Ideas" (Elementargedanken) rather than "Folk Ideas" (Volkgedanken), and not getting "lost in the symbols."

[The Doctor.]

95. It can't happen fast enough... even if it happened last year.

We're still in moron-land.

A Velvet Resurrection

I want to believe in the nobility of the human spirit.
I want to believe that mankind is essentially good and that the horror I see and the horrors I hear about are simply the last cries of a dying spectre that has haunted our fragile globe for just too long.

I want to believe that we are about to peel off the mask with which this spiteful god has been frightening us.
I want to believe that we will not dance on his defeated rotting body for that would grant him victory in death.
I want to believe that we will peel away the masks with which we frighten each other.

I want to believe that no new spectre will replace the one that died and that we can stand alone and respect one another love one another, respect and cherish life in all its shapes and sizes while continuing to evolve.

I want to believe that mankind will never be too arrogant to abandon its quest for an ultimate answer.
I want to believe that this 'ultimate answer' remains a simple question.
I want to believe that even I could answer this question.
I want to believe all of these things. I want to believe all of these things and more...

But you caught me at a bad moment and I can't.

[Initech]

97. And I say good riddance.

[Proletariatprincess]

98. this has been a very interesting thread/discussion....

I have enjoyed reading everyone's post and have learned some things and taken some ideas away to think about. That is what this kind of forum is supposed to do, I think, and I want to thank every one of you for your contributions.
I wonder how long these threads can last...... Anyone know?

[jtuck004]

101. Do we know why? I would like to send some of that to Westboro Baptist. eom