Libya will swiftly turn into a monumental cluster fuck

[cali]

it's already on its way. And that's one reason I opposed this action. What a fucking tragic mess.

[Shagbark Hickory]

1. Already a clusterfuck if you're a loved one of the innocents that got in the way of a $1mil missile

[Catherina]

24. None of those killed a single innocent person. Even the people shot at by US marines

when they went to rescue their pilot didn't happen. The young boy whose leg is getting amputated, didn't happen.

Clusterfuck is putting it mildly.

[lies and propaganda]

27. we respect your work on the ground there.

Oh you arent on the ground there? But you have some insider information... :sarcasm:

[Catherina]

28. Lies and propaganda is well chosen. Please try to keep up with current events

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x717183

[malaise]

31. And that's the truth

One more clusterfuck - what a mess

[joshcryer]

35. Any innocent people at the bombing sites will have been prisoners, kidnapped by Gaddafi.

The vast majority are bodies that Gaddafi is taking from morgues to place in bombing sites.

[slackmaster]

2. I just wish that for once we could successfully hand one of these off to France

Just ONCE.

:argh:

[sabrina 1]

46. Can't do that, then they would be in charge of the oil

We are the world's Empire, for now. It's our job to be involved in every corner of the world, as we are.

[damntexdem]

3. It already did.

But the intervention may still rescue it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

4. Yep. Not to mention the costs.

And it sounds like they're now "considering" GROUND TROOPS! Here we go!

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. Tell that to the warmongers!

I knew it would come down to this. assholes. They always lie.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

5. The tragic mess started before we got there.

And you seem remarkably slender on details. Dieting?

[cali]

6. Kadafi may well not be deposed or killed

even if he is, what comes after him could well be as bad or worse. this could just go on and on and the results of a country being under constant bombardment are pretty awful. I don't see a positive scenario.

[HappyMe]

20. I agree.

It will turn into a 'where's waldo' scenario with Kadafi. In the meantime, constant missles, ground troops will be brought in, and on and on.....

[Bluerthanblue]

37. I don't think there was going to be a happy ending for Libya if the UN

did nothing.

I'm not sure how this will end- I am sure that there was no good or easy solution to this situation.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. I suspect they had/have their eye on a remake of the Contras.

So far they have gotten their version of the Iranian Helicopter fiasco, what's next?

[spanone]

8. what libya turns into is yet to be seen.

[countingbluecars]

9. I 'm hoping it does not. n/t

[ProSense]

10. U.S., allies agree on key NATO role for Libya

U.S., allies agree on key NATO role for Libya

[Recursion]

11. Meh. I predict a Bosnia-like stasis

We still have troops there, after all, but everybody has managed to live with the NATO-enforced partition (while pretending it doesn't exist).

[Distant Observer]

12. Don't know. Western Interest was not being served by Gaddafi regime. Replacement will better

serve our interests -- if not the Libyan peoples.

[Modern_Matthew]

13. The "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner is being dusted off as we speak. nt

[GSLevel9]

17. Obama needs to take aircraft landing lessons... nt

[nolabels]

56. I have an heroic imaginary picture of him........

Body surfing his way onto the stage on the top of giant tsunami :silly:


Sometimes events are bigger than the men who are tasked to them, it looks like we are encountering events of one of those times

[Bluerthanblue]

40. what is the point of this post?

do you get something positive out of it?

:shrug:

[sasha031]

14. I am so disgusted with this adm. now

:banghead:

[n2doc]

15. The rebels are not inspiring confidence so far in their military abilities

This is the problem with violent revolutions. So we will probably have to "advise" them.

[Waiting For Everyman]

18. The crystal balls are working overtime.

And what if you're totally, 100% wrong in the future? It's possible. What if this turns out great, then what? Then you pretend you were for it all along, right?

I'm glad France didn't take that attitude during OUR revolution.

[cali]

19. I'll be glad, but history doesn't encourage optimism.

[joe_sixpack]

23. And I'm glad they decided NOT to intervene

on the side of the confederacy in our civil war. There're probably adequate examples in history of any point of view.

[Waiting For Everyman]

25. Except that a hypothetical doesn't equal a fact that happened.

[ieoeja]

55. Actually, France did decide to intervene on the side of the Confederacy.

They landed in Mexico intending to put down a minor revolt there then continue marching north of the border to link up with the Confederacy.

Then on Cinco de Mayo that year they discovered the revolt was not so minor after all forcing them to cancel their plans to aid the Confederacy.

Cinco de Mayo could be as much an American holiday as a Mexican holiday.

[patrick t. cakes]

47. France got involved for geopolitical reasons too...

somethings never change.

[thereismore]

22. Kaddafi could become Obama's Saddam. nt

[Tatiana]

26. I hope you are wrong, but I don't think you are. We're making a bad situation worse.

We're only going to foment more anti-American hostilities with our actions.

[Distant Observer]

29. A bad, bad situation, being bombed into a WORSE, WORSE, more BLODDY MESS

[MannyGoldstein]

30. It's already rocketing into the abyss:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=636311&mesg_id=636311

[xiamiam]

33. the neocons want ground troops and whaddya want to bet?

i watched a video today on al jazeera..on witness..about a guy who drove the train..loved the train in iraq..he and others casually talked about the difference between before and now..and how our intervention has totally screwed up their lives..he loved frank sinatra and talked about how they used to gather at cinemas to watch rock hudson and gary cooper but that a congregation of that size is impossible now because a bombing could occur..i found myself crying after watching..
there is an evil so black and greedy that it devours and wreaks havoc everywhere..from iraq to middle class america...it is one and the same and it is driving this bus..

[Dash87]

32. Of course it will. 5 years down the line, these "freedom fighters" will be our enemies.

[joshcryer]

34. You're wrong, and you'll see. And I look forward to your thread admitting you were wrong.

You're one of the few people who will admit that they were wrong about something and when things come out for the better, I expect it.

[cali]

41. I sincerely hope that I am wrong. And yes, if I am, I'll say so

alas, I fear you may be the one who has to say that he was wrong. Something I will take no joy in.

[joshcryer]

44. Nor will I.

And yes I'll admit it if I am.

[PufPuf23]

36. I agree k&r

[Bigmack]

38. Total clusterfuck... complete with the Goat Option. nt

[joshcryer]

39. This goat option?

[Bluerthanblue]

45. if I'm not mistaken-

that's a sheeps head. I've raised both since I was a kid, and it sure doesn't look like goat to me.

[joshcryer]

48. Aww, dang.

That was put on one of the tanks after the French hit the raid on Benghazi. Thought it was a goat because it was meant to send a message to Gaddafi.

[LiberalAndProud]

42. Cali, I fear that you are right and I fervently hope that you are wrong.

I have been against this adventure from the start, but I hope and continue to hope that my darkest predictions prove unfounded. Since we have, in fact, undertaken this mission, I do not wish it to fail simply because I thought it was the wrong thing to do.

[bhikkhu]

43. I hope not, with job #1 well finished

...which was to turn Gadhafi's armor and artillery around at Benghazi. Probably thousands of dead were avoided last weekend, and the tide of "no mercy, no pity" has turned against a ruthless dictator.

I hope it sets an example for other countries dealing with their own unrest - slaughtering your people doesn't lead to a good result.

And I hope going forward that something peaceful may come - I don't care if it's the division of Libya, the exile of Gadhafi, or even a compromise that leads to elections; as long as it doesn't involve the slaughter of civilians and the leveling of cities by military and mercenaries.

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. Do you mean 'more of a clusterfuck than without any outside intervention'?

Because I presume by 'this action' you mean the UN intervention, not, say, people rebelling against Gaddafi, or him massacring them as a result. That is still the primary 'clusterfuck' in Libya, that involves most of the killing.

Remember, you yourself called for a military coup against Gaddafi, about a month ago.

[cali]

50. I did?

Not saying i didn't, but I don't recall it. I wouldn't be averse to the Libyan military turning against Gaddafi. That's an internal affair. Could you please link me to my calling for a military coup against Gaddafi?

And by clusterfuck, I mean a different kind of clusterfuck than had we not intervened- and in many ways yes, a worse one.

[joshcryer]

51. Much of the military has turned against Gaddafi.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. Yes, here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=476665

I think the immediate effect of the UN resolution has been to prevent a massacre in Benghazi, because Gaddafi had threatened to go from 'house to house' looking for 'traitors'. The bombing of the tanks outside Benghazi meant he wouldn't have had a free hand in that. The effects on the future fighting in Libya may be less - it will be small arms stuff, with both sides having a chance of winning, and not much intervention from UN forces, because it won't be easy without killing by-standers or fighters on both sides. But I don't think it will be appreciably worse than without no intervention; probably slightly better, overall.

[cali]

53. thanks. so I did.

I still think that would be a good thing, but I didn't endorse foreign intervention then, and I don't support it notw.

I think the unforeseen consequences of the U.N. action are likely to be as bad or worse than had we not intervened.