More and more, I am inclined to believe the bank bailouts was all a big scam...

[kentuck]

A going-away gift by George W Bush and his anti-government friends.

From the moment he decided to destroy the Clinton surpluses, I have thought that Bush wanted to destroy government by squeezing all of the money out of it.

Not only did he start two wars without paying for them, he gave the wealthy benefactors trillions of dollars in taxcuts. On top of that, he pushed through a Medicare prescription bill of about $600 billion dollars plus. In the end, he had doubled the national debt.

There was little left for any type of government program but George W Bush wanted to put one final nail in the coffin. This was his final attempt to destroy "big government" before he rode off into the sunset.

It was a scam. And Barack Obama and the Democrats bought it. They gave away the store to the big banks and now we are left debating what programs we should cut. They won and we lost. The era of "big government is over. For real. We cannot afford it any longer.

[Fumesucker]

1. Thank God It Passed..

A quote about TARP from Operation Mind Crime, one of the most blatant and longest lasting trolls ever to infest DU.

If OMC liked it, it was a scam, OMC *loved* it.

[Poll_Blind]

5. +1

He is/was one of the few people who I think of more as a "performance artist troll" who just comes in and tries to intentionally disrupt as much as possible, all as much within the rules as possible. That single poster intentionally drove dozens of people (at least) away from DU and single-handedly lowered the level of reasonable discourse on this entire forum which, I have little doubt, he considers a "success".

Even a poster like Jim Sagle could have his moments of reasonable discourse. For instance, I think sometime in the summer of 1957 we briefly agreed on the color of cheddar cheese.

PB

[Lorien]

53. You mean I can finally remove those two from my "ignore" list?

awesome!

[Rex]

6. I wonder what finally sunk his DU ship?

I'd given up on that poster ever getting TSd so long ago I quit noticing their posts here lol.

[Hydra]

52. OMC got tombstoned???

Miracles DO exist! I have to say he was quite talented, even if it was in a way that gave me ulcers. He should have gotten a job as the Press Secretary.

[AllyCat]

145. And I thought he didn't post anymore after his wife died. Or was that all part of the scam?

[Hydra]

152. He posted after that

I put him on ignore shortly after that. I respect the dead(even the possibly fake ones), but he was obviously here stirring up trouble.

I used to think ignore was a bad idea, but after a flameout I had with a DUer who has contrary views to mine, I realized we weren't doing anyone here favors by arguing our points. Now I don't know how I ever did without it.

[AllyCat]

164. Actually, you are right. I do remember seeing posts during the 2008 primary

from OMC that made me think "he must really be grieving to be saying something like this". Now I know it might be that he was a troll. Who knows? I actually forget who I have on ignore and every few months or so, I check it and think "what was that about?"

I hope he is at peace.

[kentuck]

163. Didn't he also go by the name of Mr Benchley?

Seems I recall?

[donheld]

82. -1 Just for bringing up past demons

:D

[Fumesucker]

101. Eh, there were more than just a few DUers who really liked OMC..

Somehow he always seemed to manage to garner support for his blatant trollery, even from the mods apparently.

But the yard thick layer of icing on the Troll Cake was when he ran back to FR and bragged how adroitly he had hoodwinked the mods here.

[HughBeaumont]

124. He also went to the unmentionable site and did the same.

OMC was a grade-A, contrary-for-the-sake-of-being-contrary POS. How he had so many fooled was beyond me.

[fascisthunter]

127. he isn't the only one

how he could have fooled anyone here is just astounding.

[Hello_Kitty]

143. OMC was anti-choice. eom

[theaocp]

2. I feel the reason the bailouts were a scam

was because no one told the fucking banks what to do with the money. Where I come from, beggars can't be choosers. Except in this case, the beggars were given the green light to be as choosy as they wished to be. And they chose to keep the money for themselves. Shocking that giving people money with NO STRINGS ATTACHED and just good intentions yields the ugliest side of humanity. Oy.

[FirstLight]

70. exactly...

Welfare people may not be 'told' what to do with their money...BUT they monitor our bank accts, ask for explanation of ANY thing that changes, and deduct money even when we tell them the truth about earning something...

so ya, the whole idea that any of this was 'corporate welfare' is an oxymoron... the corporations in NO way have to ba as accountable as the average poor person.

fuckers, ALL of 'em

[Foo Fighter]

76. Good post.

People getting a few bucks a week for food stamps have to wade through endless red tape and meet very strict requirements yet the govt. handed billions over to the big banks with absolutely NO strings attached. Apparently requirements and qualifications are only for the "little people."

You're absolutely right that 'corporate welfare' is an oxymoron. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Orrex]

74. That's an excellent point. Consider:

If I ask a bank for a business loan of $2000, you can bet that they're going to scour my credit history and references, and they're going to want a precise articulation of what I intend to do with the $2000, an explanation of why I can't raise it on my own, and a rigid timetable for how I plan to pay it back. This is somewhat reasonable, in fact, because it is the creditor's responsibility to validate the debtor.

However...

In the case of the bank bailout, We The Creditors were prevented from learning how they planned to disburse the money, and it's becoming more and more clear that the banks were far less solvent (i.e., far less able to repay the loans) than they portrayed themselves to be.

If the serf who runs the corner bodega tried that shit, he'd be laughed all the way out of the bank. But when the banks did it, Our Esteemed Legislature positively tripped over itself in an effort to funnel even more money to these parasitic companies.


Socialism for the rich, as they say.

[liberation]

153. The issue in my opinion is that most people still do not understand what a transfer of wealth is.

This has nothing to do with "beggars" the banks and the bankers were not asking for chump change, they were asking for ransom. There is a big difference between "do you have spare change?" and "give us money or the economy gets it" and that was basically what their (the banks) proposition amounted to. The fact that the government complied ipso facto should be a clue to most Americans that this country has never been about its people, but about capital. And that is a true fact from day 1 of this republic.

A country that takes less than a couple of days to approve the single largest transfer of wealth to boost and protect the interests of less than 1% of its population, yet it does not seem capable of mustering enough political will to provide affordable and humane health care to 100% of its citizens... even though every single other industrialized country on earth has been doing so for DECADES. Such a country displays a lot of gall when pretending than it is supposed to be for the people, by the people, and of the people.

Alas, plenty of people will go to their graves defending their "right" to be robbed blind and taken advantage of. A significant number of them in this site even.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jaxx]

7. That started as a subtle bash and ended up a blatant bash.

Not very productive, let alone progressive. Was that the objective?

[notesdev]

10. The objective

is to open eyes to the fact that we are being betrayed by both sides

pretending it's not happening will make certain the problem is never corrected

I mean really, if people have to reach so far as to make GWB out to some sort of mastermind in order to make the case, it's a pretty poor case. Isn't it obvious the guy needed a tutor to tie his shoes?

If it's "progressive" to turn a blind eye to Democrats assisting the looting and pillaging of this country, then that word has taken a very ugly turn of definition.

[jaxx]

11. That objective wasn't reached.

Everybody isn't out to get us, that's paranoia. As is the "Democrats assisting the looting and pillaging of this country".

[notesdev]

13. Is that so?

Then explain to me why Tim Geithner is running the Treasury, when his primary qualification is having been an entirely negligent regulator and primary responsible party in the biggest financial scandal in human history!

[jaxx]

14. Because he's smart enough to run it, why else.

[notesdev]

15. If that's the only qualification

then we're in deep trouble. Bernie Madoff was smart enough to run it too.

You see, when I vote for Democrats I expect things like looking out for the interest of the common man AGAINST the competing interests of the wealthy and powerful.

Which brings me back to my point. Today's Democratic Party leaders no longer care about the common man. They are, just as the Rebumblicans, wholly owned assets of International Banking, Inc.

I am NOT satisfied with this state of affairs and no other Democrat should be either.

[jaxx]

19. The Obama adm does care about the common man.

They have shown this many times. I don't really care what you expect, nor do I care about the constant carping. Just because you'll never be satisfied doesn't mean that others will not agree with compromise when necessary, or what administration person can be put down today by some isn't going to be by all.

One thing people need to get straight is that this is a Constitutional Republic, not a socialist country. All the key words in the world won't change that.

[notesdev]

23. Wishful thinking

List me a few things that shows he cares about the common man, please.

[jaxx]

25. Here's the list, pick them out.

* Reversed restrictions on stem cell research.
* Signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. Reducing discrimination based on gender, age, religion, or race.
* Signed an executive order reversing the ban that prohibits funding to international family planning groups that provide abortions. Gag rule revoked (Mexico City policy).
* Signed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.
* Creates the White House Council on Women and Girls "to provide a coordinated federal response to the challenges confronted by women and girls and to ensure that all Cabinet and Cabinet-level agencies consider how their policies and programs impact women and families."
* Signed a Presidental Memorandum extending federal benefits to same-sex partners of federal workers and announced support for the Domestic Partners Benefits and Obligations Act of 2009.
* Reverses U.S. position on LGBT Issues at the UN: At the "Durban Review Conference," U.S. supports language condemning “all forms of discrimination and all other human rights violations based on sexual orientation.”
* Signed the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) Reauthorization Act of 2009 expanding health coverage for 250,000 children.
* Rescinded a Bush administration directive that effectively made it impossible for states to raise their eligibility limits under the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) above 250 percent of the poverty level.
* Named Wilma Liebman as the next chairwoman of the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB). As an NLRB member over the past eight years, Liebman challenged the Bush administration’s war on workers.
* Nominated Mark Pearce, a member of the New York State United Teachers union, and Craig Becker, current associate general counsel for the AFL-CIO and the Service Employees International Union, to the to the National Labor Relations Board.
* Signed executive order requiring federal contractors to offer jobs to current workers when contracts change.
* Reversed a Bush order requiring federal contractors to post notice that workers can limit financial support of unions serving as their exclusive bargaining representatives.
* Signed executive order preventing federal contractors from being reimbursed for expenses meant to influence workers deciding whether to form a union and engage in collective bargaining.
* Created a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners.
* Expanded eligibility for the refinancing portion of the Making Home Affordable plan to help Americans struggling with distressed mortgages refinance at lower interest rates, even if they owe up to 25 percent more than their homes are now worth.
* Established a credit card "bill of rights".
* Expanded loan programs for small businesses.
* Extended and index the 2007 Alternative Minimum Tax patch.
* Expanded eligibility for State Children's Health Insurance Fund (SCHIP).
* Expanded funding to train primary care providers and public health practitioners.
* Created a new White House task force on the problems of middle-class Americans, and installed Vice President Joe Biden as its chairman.
* Appoints Vice President Joe Biden to Oversee Stimulus Plan Payouts.
* Granted a reprieve to Liberian immigrants facing imminent expulsion.
* Directed military leaders to end war in Iraq.
* Allowing Caskets to be photographed when the return from Iraq with family approval.
* Released nine previously secret internal Justice Department memos and opinions defining the legal limits of government power in combating terrorism.
* On Arab TV Network, Obama Urges Dialogue.
* Gave a speech in Cairo engaging the Muslim and Arab world.
* Bars independent contractors from conducting interrogations of terror suspects.
* Granted Americans unrestricted rights to visit family and send money to Cuba.
* Ordered the release of nearly a quarter of a million pages of records from the Reagan White House that were kept from the public during a lengthy review by President George W. Bush.
* Restored funding for the Byrne Justice Assistance Grant (Byrne/JAG) program.
* Released presidential records.
* Required new hires to sign a form affirming their hiring was not due to political affiliation or contributions.
* Pushed for enactment of Matthew Shepard Act, which expands hate crime law to include sexual orientation and other factors.
* Invites gay families to the Easter Egg Roll as part of the Obama administration's outreach to diverse communities.
* Created a White House Office on Urban Policy.
* Increased funding for the NEA.
* Appointed an assistant to the president for science and technology policy.
* Funded a major expansion of AmeriCorps.
* Banned lobbyist gifts to executive employees.
* Investment in all types of alternative energy.
* Enacted tax credit for consumers for plug-in hybrid cars.
* Support for high-speed rail.
* Provided grants to encourage energy-efficient building codes.
* Extended unemployment insurance benefits and temporarily suspend taxes on these benefits.
* Created the White House Council on Automotive Communities and Workers to help auto industry workers transition to new manufacturing opportunities, including jobs in alternative energy.
* Stop raids on medical marijuana dispensers.
* Nominated Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court of the United States, the first Hispanic to ever serve on the Supreme Court.
* Nominated Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court of the United States.
* Appointed more than 60 openly LGBT persons to positions in the executive branch.
* Issues Presidential Proclamation for Pride, proclaiming June as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month.
* Signed a mercury reduction pact with 140 other nations.
* Signed the Weapons System Acquisition Reform Act to curb wasteful spending by the Pentagon. Intended to price contracts and budgets lower; may potentially save billions of dollars in defense.
* Signed the Omnibus Public Lands Management Act of 2009, which serves to protect two million acres of land and creates a new system of land conservation for the Bureau of Land Management.
* Phase out government payments to crop producers making more than $500,000 a year and eliminates subsidies for cotton storage to help trim the U.S. budget deficit.
* Cut funding for a proposed U.S. nuclear storage facility at Yucca Mountain.
* Restored Endangered Species Act Provision requiring U.S. agencies consult with independent federal experts to determine if their actions might harm threatened and endangered species.
* Orders The Chesapeake Bay Protection and Restoration "to protect and restore the health, heritage, natural resources, and social and economic value of the Nation's largest estuarine ecosystem and the natural sustainability of its watershed."
* Signed the 2009 Omnibus Public Land Management Act designating two million additional acres of public wilderness areas the highest level of government protection from logging and other forms of commercial use and development.
* Signed the Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act which will expedite the search for cures and treatments for millions of Americans living with paralysis caused by spinal cord injury, stroke, MS, Parkinson's and many other diseases and disorders.
* Established The Joint Virtual Lifetime Electronic Record, a new system for updating medical records of servicemen and women both during and after their military careers.
* Established the White House Office of Health Reform
* Created new and stronger safety standards to safeguard the country's food supply.
* Signed into law the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act
* Overturned a 22-year-old travel and immigration ban against people with HIV.
* Extended the Ryan White HIV/AIDS program.
* Directed US Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice to sign the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons With Disabilities Proclamation. The UN treaty calls on all countries to guarantee equal benefits, protection, and justice for individuals with disabilities around the world.
* Largest increase in veterans funding ever - more than the VA had actually asked for.
* Signed the Daniel Pearl Freedom of the Press Act into law.
* Signed the Caregivers and Veterans Omnibus Health Services Act of 2010 into law.
* Signed the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act into law.
* Signed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act into law.
* Signed the Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment (HIRE) Act into law.
* Reversed the USA's negative global image in one fell swoop.
* Signed the Fair Sentencing Act, which reduces the disparity in the amounts of powder cocaine and crack cocaine required for the imposition of mandatory minimum sentences and eliminates the mandatory minimum sentence for simple possession of crack cocaine.
* Signed into law the Small Business Jobs Bill that will help promote job creation and spur private-sector growth.
* Signed into law the most comprehensive financial regulatory overhaul since the Great Depression.
* Signed into law the Pigford/Cobell settlement funding bill.
* Signed into law Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act 2010.
* Signed into law the 13 month UI extensions, leaving tax cuts for all for 2 years.
* Signed into law the repeal of DADT.
* Signed into law the START Treaty.

[notesdev]

28. OK so you can cut and paste

What you apparently cannot do is distinguish something that helps the common man from something that helps the elites. A great deal of that list is either meaningless, symbolic, or helps the elites... and at least one is an outright falsehood.

So which department of the government do you work for?

[jaxx]

31. LOL now you go there?

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jaxx]

42. I live in the real world.

What you have now done is write a biography of me that is 100% fictional. But you will parade it as truth because I don't agree with you on just about anything. Good luck. This is exactly what I mean when I say rumor is turned into supposed facts....thanks for the example.

[apocalypsehow]

51. Right here is the reason internet "debate" is often times so futile - RIGHT HERE IN THIS REPLY.

You asked the poster above: "List me a few things that shows he cares about the common man, please."

He replied in good faith, with a long substantive list answering your question in detail.

Your flippant response?

"OK so you can cut and paste"

You didn't make the slightest feeble effort to deal with the substance of the reply, because, as you well know, such a substantive reply on your part would have required you to concede your error, and admit that your opponent had made a good point - or twenty.

But dog forbid that you would do that! Oh no: why bother to actually address the substance of the reply when a snarky dismissal will do?

Very telling, that.

[notesdev]

60. It's because I refuse to accept lazy nonsense?

Cutting and pasting a list is not making an argument, especially when no effort is made to connect the elements on the list to the subject at hand. The vast majority of that list has nothing to do with the situation of the vast majority of this country - it's an example of priorities almost completely detached from the actual needs of people in this country.

If anything what makes Internet debate futile is the willingness to accept such nonsense in lieu of actually addressing the issues.

[apocalypsehow]

86. It wasn't "lazy nonsense" - simply facts you refuse to address. Which makes my point even more.

Thanks for helping me do so. :thumbsup:

"it's an example of priorities almost completely detached from the actual needs of people in this country"

:eyes:

[notesdev]

103. Facts I refuse to address?

I think I addressed it quite straightforwardly - that list is a list full of complete bullshit that by and large has zero relevance to average people in this country.

Maybe on your planet, proclaiming a national Gay Pride day helps people to eat and to put a roof over their head and to find a job with dignity, but not on this one!

[apocalypsehow]

160. Yes: facts you have not typed one word in substantive reply to address. By George, I think you're

catching on!

Instead of reeling off another substance-free snarky reply to me, why don't you invest some time and intellectual energy in scrolling back up to the original post in question, and spend some time addressing it? :shrug:

I won't be holding my breath.... :eyes:

[notesdev]

165. I don't because it is designed to waste time

It was an extremely poor answer to a question of mine. Actually even calling it an answer at all is generous, what it is is an abdication of the opportunity to forthrightly answer the question.

I have in fact already addressed a few of the items therein, pointing out that they are trivial, and do not positively impact (or even negatively impact) the condition of the average person in this country.

If you were on the receiving end of such a "go fish" type of response, I wager you'd be equally unconvinced and annoyed by it.

[Myrina]

120. +10

... its like going into a job interview with a resume made up of fancy sounding words and awards. But what does it really MEAN? What are the actual pluses <spelling?> of those 'Acts'/Laws? Bottom line, strip out the fancy sounding titles and verbiage and what do those 'accomplishments' really DO for the everyday folk?

[Occulus]

63. If it was The Blue Link List I've seen before, it's been posted, and refuted, on multiple occasions

I have that one on ignore, so I don't know for sure, but if it's The Great Blue Link List of Obama's Accomplishments, most of it is milquetoast accomplishments-on-paper that have little to do with actually improving anything of substance. The List has been posted- and refuted- probably dozens of times, but that doesn't stop them from posting it.

The point of The List is to get people- people such as yourself- to side with them, saying something like "well, they posted a list, but you didn't look at it/talk about it/correct it/ refute it". The extended goal to posting The List is to get people to talk about Obama's accomplishments as stated by The List, and not the specific failure being addressed by the thread as a whole. That poster, and others like it, have pulled this little trick more times than I can count (which is why they're on ignore, funny how that works).

In other words, The List is a tactic. You just fell for it.

[apocalypsehow]

88. Since you supposedly can't see it (*rollseyes*) you have no idea what it is. But it hasn't been

refuted in the slightest: all we've seen is smarmy snark listing all the reasons why a reasoned reply is not forthcoming.

All the shallow intellectual preening aside by those snarking about what was posted (even those who, supposedly, can't even see it! :eyes:), the facts listed in the reply above stand un-refuted - by you or anyone else in this thread. Period.

[JDPriestly]

99. Continues the surveillance of electronic communications in violation of the 4th Amendment begun

under Bush.

Continues to deprive prisoners at Guantanamo of due process including the right to trial begun under Bush.

Continued and increased the bail-outs to the banks.

Appears to have agreed to cut Social Security benefits for working Americans, benefits that those same working Americans have paid for.

"Compromises" to allow the tax cuts for the rich to continue.

Agrees to cut the taxes paid into the Social Security trust fund while claiming that Social Security is scheduled to run out of money.

"Compromised" health care policy so as to insure yet bigger salaries for insurance company CEOs.

Continues the policy that has permitted the banks to pay extremely low interest to depositors while demanding extremely high interest from borrowers.

Continues the corrupt policies that result in a bloated defense budget that does not provide the security we need.

Has increased invasive Homeland Security searches at airports and public places frequented by ordinary Americans but ignores the real security hazards at major industrial sites in the country.

Is hiring Homeland Security staff while firing teachers.

Is destroying our public schools system and replacing it with charter schools that are not required to and often do not hire well trained teachers.

If I went on, jaxx, I could list just as many Obama failures as you have successes. Overall, Obama is not the president of change. He may plan to run in 2012, but I think that he cannot win. We need a real Democrat who stands for the principles of FDR to run in Obama's stead. Obama just is not doing the job that is needed at this time of crisis.

[notesdev]

104. The difference between

the failures you list and the "successes" he lists is that the list of failures has real impact on regular, average people all over the country.

I for one am tired of being fed shit sandwiches and being told it's Beluga caviar.

[Enthusiast]

107. Thank you.

This is the list that really impacts the citizen.

[davidwparker]

148. "We need a real Democrat" - It is my intention to gauge

the interest of the Dem party by seeing if there is a primary challenger. If not, then the party is not interested in keeping the WH.

Your list is the list I go by. The previous posted list is largely symbolic.

[sulphurdunn]

156. Fascinating.

What does any of it have to do with bank bailouts?

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheKentuckian]

81. Why can't a Constitutional Republic also be "socialist country"?

That "logic" sounds pretty freepish.

[Enthusiast]

108. Agree about the "logic". nt

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enthusiast]

109. Very stinky fish. nt

[cui bono]

96. Dick Cheney was smart enough to run this country while VP.

How'd that work out for ya?

[BobbyBoring]

142. Yeah Really

TARP was GWBs final F%$^ You to the American people. At first, it was give us 800 BILLION and don't dare ask where it went. All the players in this con game are still around, just like Gates and some of the DOD hacks.

It's a little better (Maybe) than what I thought his final FU would be. We did have an election in 2008~

[Marr]

16. God, that's getting old.

I'm so tired of people who try to suggest that acknowledging certain observable realities is equivalent to raving over black helicopter paranoia. This is not Art Bell stuff.

If you prefer to wear rose-tinted glasses and pretend your heroes have nothing to do with this, fine-- but please, put away the "I'm the adult here" tone.

[jaxx]

21. Use facts, they are much better.

Observable realities are nothing more than a person's take on any given situation. They can look at it any way they want to, but only the facts are real.

[Marr]

29. We are talking about simple facts here, not some esoteric, philosophical point.

The fact is that Obama and Geithner continued the fraudulent bailout approach you ascribe solely to the Bush Administration. They required new legislation to do it.

From what angle are you looking at this fact, that allows you to perceive it all as the work of GW Bush? Or are claiming the bailouts were bad when Bush did it, but magically morphed into responsible economic policy when Obama continued doing the same thing?

[jaxx]

33. What is that all about?

I was for TARP, I didn't want to see the banks fail and the bottom fall out of the economy worse than it did. I don't remember mentioning dubya in this thread, but maybe I did...his fingers are in many of the pies.

Really, don't try to lump me in with your preconceived notions of what the non-lefty Democrat thinks. None of us think alike, we all have our own reasons for supporting President Obama and not all of his policies are perfect. However he is the Democratic President of these Unites States of America and I'm a supporter. If you're not, why not?

[rhett o rick]

41. The Democrats did nothing to stop GWB from starting two wars that are illegal. They kissed his feet

as he invade Iraq. They did nothing to even slow down his attacks on our freedoms, like the Patriot Act. Many were falling all over themselves to appease the Boy Emperor. They helped when the banks decided to blackmail the Congress into bailing out the banks with no consequences. And now the Democrats are doing little to end the wars, nothing to undo the Patriot Act and other assaults on our freedoms. We are still torturing people.

And whose side do you defend?

[jaxx]

44. Iraq is ending. Afghanistan isn't.

Democrats did support the wars, some did support the Patriot Act. It was a time of unity, most likely the last we'll see. The banks have mostly paid back the TARP money. Who says we're still torturing people? Airport security isn't an assault on freedom.

Who's side do I defend? The side of the USA. There is no other side. Not if you're an American who can see that the Democrats are working to turn the country back to sanity.

[rhett o rick]

45. "It was a time for unity"? Bullshit. It was a time for cooler heads to prevail. They knew Bush was

lying but they gave him permission to kill innocent Iraqi's. The Democrats have not made a move to undo the Patriot Act. I dont believe that the people are getting back all the money they gave the banks. How much did the Fed give the banks? It is a secret. Some believe in the trillions. But the Democrats wont tell us.

You are on the side of the USA. LOL. Made me stand up and sing God bless the USA.

There is a war in this country that many are ignoring. The middle class is rapidly being bled dry. You are either on the side of the middle class or on the side of the oligarchy. Sounds to me like you are siding with the oligarchs.

[jaxx]

48. Sounds to me like you're all wrong.

I'm a liberal, not a socialist. Oligarchy doesn't do a thing for me, neither does corporatist or common man or any other key word used by the left. That must be what's ringing your ears. I don't care what you believe, read the damn papers. TARP is nearly all paid back. As for the Fed, who knows. But we didn't go into a depression so whatever it cost it was worth it. As for they knew bush was lying....only the committee knew. Durbin let the cat out of the bag on that one a couple years ago. They told the committee one thing, and they're sworn to secrecy, and told the congress something else. Look it up.

[rhett o rick]

57. So you are saying that the Democrats that supported the Bush war believed him?

They thought he was an honorable man? When there were loads of people all over the world calling bullshit. But the Democrats in Congress, those who were elected to watch out for us, they were fooled? I would never have voted for going to war w/o clear proof. Then they supported his Patriot Act, MCA and wiretaps, and on and on. They failed us that elected them to look out for us. May they all rot in hell.

[Catherina]

84. +10000 n/t

[valerief]

112. +666 trillion

[thanks_imjustlurking]

128. Amen. nt

[bengalherder]

155. Yeah, that damn patriot act that miraculously appeared in something like

24 hours from conception...

Like THAT wasn't suspicious.

[Lorien]

54. +1. nt

[rhett o rick]

46. Please explain how you think the war in Iraq is ending? How many private contractors are we keeping

there? How much money are we spending there?

[jaxx]

49. All troops out by Dec. 2011....just like the SOFA deal says.

Somebody has to guard the white elephant of an embassy in Baghdad, so there will be people doing that. I don't know how much money, ask the previous administration who lost pallets of money. Don't act like this is brand new as of Jan. 2009. I'm sick of that angle.

[rhett o rick]

55. You are the one claiming "Iraq is ending". I will believe it when I see it. nm

[jaxx]

56. Ok, just wait it out.

[mrdmk]

72. Well that is certinly a polite way of telling the poster to go sit on his hands

BTW, I am being polite also!

Here is answer you refused to acknowledge:

<snip>
At present there are 132,610 in Iraq and 68,197 in Afghanistan. The report notes that while the deployment of security contractors in Iraq is increasing, there was an 11% decrease in overall contractors in Iraq from the first quarter of 2009 due to the “ongoing efforts to reduce the contractor footprint in Iraq.”
<end of snip>

link: http://www.alternet.org/blogs/world/140378/obama_has_250%2C000_%27contractors%27_deployed_in_iraq_and_afghanistan_and_is_increasing_the_use_of_mercenaries

At the peak there 170,000 US troops, not to mention "The Coalition of the Willing." Now there are around 50,000 US Troops. You add 50,000 + 132,610 = 182,000. Some withdraw!!!

[rhett o rick]

87. Well said. Some are going to great lengths to rationalize that things are better. nm

[grahamhgreen]

110. If patriotic was supporting the wars then unpatriotic is failing to prosecute those who lied us into

The wars.

[Kaleko]

26. Without the correct diagnosis of what's ailing us,

there can be no cure. You said it well.

It's a gut-wrenching realization that we've been conned by a very sophisticated and well-spoken candidate for President who then turns out to be another lackey for Wall Street, evidently hand-picked and groomed by the predator class to put a caring face on this ongoing robbery.

I'm grappling with the facts of this massive betrayal every day.

[martymar64]

105. From Dune, Obama is Feyd Rautha to Bush's Rabban

After Rabban destroyed Arrakis, they would bring in Feyd Rautha who would be seen as a savior.

But Rabban and Feyd were both Harkonnens, working on the orders of the Baron.

[loudsue]

85. I agree 100% ! We're all being played for a bunch of suckers.

The money runs the show, and the rest of us are spectators.

[truth2power]

137. What's productive and progressive is engaging in critical thinking...

I'll have to rely on my memory, because notesdev's post you responded to was deleted while I was responding to your post. I wonder who alerted on that.

Nevertheless, instead of accusing someone of bashing, a critical thinker (critical thinking is, after all, about asking the right questions) would ask whether it really is the case that the vote was not on party lines,i.e., Democrats did not oppose it. If that is found to be the case, then what can one reasonably infer from that information? Could one infer that the Democrats were complicit? It's certainly worth discussing.

Sorry, that's the best I can do. I feel as if I'm participating in a discussion with a group of people and one person says something to which I'd like to respond, but others, who are annoyed by what he said, knock him on the head a drag him out of the room.

When I try to rephrase what I think he said, the group members tell me it's not important because he's gone.

It's really difficult to carry on an adult discussion under those circumstances.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

93. So sad, but I'd have to agree with you.

[grahamhgreen]

106. +1

[leveymg]

4. The traditional approach would be Nationalize the oil companies and the banks. Jail a few CEOs.

Guess that just doesn't occur to anyone, any more.

[Tesha]

17. That'd be like that damned Soshulizm! (NT)

[PassingFair]

22. We should have held the FDIC lines and let it fall.

Boo hoo if you had more to lose than
you could hide.

[leveymg]

27. Hey, any company that hasn't already hidden its assets offshore is too stupid to live

What doesn't have to be reported can't be seized. I'm afraid we're beyond traditional solutions in most cases.

[snappyturtle]

8. I think we can afford 'big government'.....IF we substantially reduce

the military's and Pentagon's budgets and tax the rich. I know the tax cuts for the rich are still with us and a huge $700+billion dollar budget was recently passed (by the Senate?)...well, we know it will go through. We will have drunk the kool-aid if we accept the 'we can't afford it' mantra.


edit: Oh, YES, it was all a scam....there were lots of reasons not to attach strings to the bailout.

[bluerum]

9. No Joe! Tell me it ain't so.

[Marr]

12. It *was* all a big scam, and Obama and the Democrats repeated it.

Our political establishment is comprised of lobbyists for Wall Street. Matt Taibbi's Griftopia describes the situation very well, IMHO.

[bcool]

111. Agreed - a GREAT book!

I just finished reading Griftopia, and I agree - it very clearly and entertainingly explains how corporate America (and other countries) have stolen our country. I HIGHLY recommend that everyone read it - it will make your blood boil!!!

[Octafish]

18. BFEE Operation

Know your BFEE: Phil Gramm, the Meyer Lansky of the War Party, Set-Up the Biggest Bank Heist Ever.

The Senator who made deregulation of Wall Street his reason for being left office to become vice chairman of UBS Switzerland. WTF?

[Joanne98]

133. 1+

[WiffenPoof]

20. What Is Completely...

baffling to me and I will never understand, is why the banks were not given specific instructions on what the money was to be used for. That is to say that with the bail out, they should have had some requirements to meet. For example...that a certain portion of the money be made available as loans to Main Street. I cannot for the life of me understand how we could have given away tax dollars without a single benefit to the consumer. What were they thinking?

-PLA

[egoclothes]

32. "trickle down" ideology is still in play and played well for the

banksters and the supporters during the crisis.

[Kaleko]

39. In a nutshell, US politicians work for international banking cartels.

No allegiance to any country or communal ideals prevents them from serving the highest bidders.

It's a mind-set that springs from a deep-seated attitude towards life in general. It's "every man for himself" and "after me the deluge", and it is utterly destructive to society.

[DemReadingDU]

24. Of course!

Baliouts aren't for us little people. They were for the banksters who devised investments to make them even wealthier. Then when the investments became toxic, they demanded bailouts so they can give themselves million-dollar bonuses.

QE1, QE2, QEx, also are a type of bailouts for the banksters. From the way I understand it, the banksters can stealthly move their toxic shit to the public debt in segments to not arose too much awareness what they are doing. That is why we had QE1 last year, QE2 this year, next year we will get QE3.

Obviously, I do not have the exact details, but it's all been designed so the rich get richer, and we get poorer.

[salinen]

30. Boy kentuck

you are one uppity slave.

[BzaDem]

35. I don't think the cuts have a huge amount to do with the bailouts.

As for TARP, we got nearly all of that back.

There was also a lot beyond TARP (such as AIG). But some of that (such as trillions in guarantees to the financial system) were just that -- guarantees. They never had to be used. So while we lost the possibility of getting a profit on what is essentially insurance, we never had to pay out claims.

As for the wisdom of having a bailout, I think much of the bailout (such as AIG) was absolutely necessary. The vast majority of banks (big and small) in America were directly or indirectly (through a chain of counterparties) dependent on AIG. The depression that would have ensued if we had no bailout would have drained the treasury in a heartbeat (in addition to the human suffering it would have caused).

[Still a Democrat]

140. Dead on, but not fitting with the conventional wisdom here n/t

[Ilsa]

36. As far as I can see, there was only one big benefit to keeping the major banks operational:

They operate an extensive and essential payments system. I suspect we could have kept it intact by nationalizing the banks and then selling off various operations and regions. But the payment system needed to remain intact. Too many jobs depend on it.

The other reasons for TARP were bullshit as far as I'm concerned. No real strings were attached, no real reforms were made, and no one is in fucking prison for ruining so many peoples' lives.

[BzaDem]

37. I think most in favor of TARP here would agree with you.

No one liked the lack of strings, conditions, accountability, etc. No one actually wants the big bankers to be richer. The only reason TARP was necessary was the collateral damage that would occur in its absence.

[kentuck]

38. You obviously believed them.

Some people did not. It was a matter of faith. The facts were not present at the time. Just give it to us! they said.

[BzaDem]

40. Well, it wasn't that I believed them or not believed them. While I am not an economist, I had some

passing knowledge economics/history/etc, and that knowledge told me that what turns recessions into deep depressions is a collapse of the banking system.

I wasn't the only one that thought that (see Paul Krugman, Brad Delong, etc). The fact that Bush said something similar is irrelevant.

I would have preferred a nationalization (which is still a bailout of bank bondholders, except the US government makes more profit off the upside). But most progressive economists agree that a bailout is preferable to nothing.

[Amonester]

83. You mean, the banksters (and their lackeys) sure KNOW HOW TO TAKE HOSTAGES

the entire population, in order to keep their privileges and their bonuses growing, and mostly EVERYTHING THEY WANT, like the last round of them holding hostages for their bush tax-cuts extensions.

They do it (taking HOSTAGES) over, over, and over again, and they ALWAYS WIN.

And why is that?

[thanks_imjustlurking]

129. Yep. Even our president used the term HOSTAGES.

I think he drew the wrong conclusion, though.

[RegieRocker]

43. A small corrupt government run by the rich and for the rich

will not be any better. It's not the SIZE that is important. It's the quality, honesty and integrity.

[sendero]

47. The bailouts ....

... were nothing more or less that making the taxpayers pay for the failures of the banksters in their ripoff abandon.

Talk about moral hazard, these folks will stop at nothing now, it has been proven to them that it's "heads we win tails you lose".

And indeed it is.

[mdmc]

50. It was a scam.

[femrap]

58. the whole TARP idea was to

put the taxpayers on the hook for all of the debt....not the corporations who created all the mistakes. And now we can see that this has now gone worldwide. It's all about sovereign debt...and that's the taxpayer, baby.

The corporations are off the hook. Now the taxpayer is faced with Austerity Programs. Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Spain, Portugal....and now the US. States, cities, municipalities....all faced w/ outrageous debt...because they did what Wall Street told them to do.

BIGGEST. HEIST. EVER.

Now food prices will rise....they're going to try to starve us. (I think something called The Food 'Safety' Bill just passed)....think Orwell.


wasf.

[Skittles]

59. SCHEDULING KENTUCK FOR ASS-KISSING

for just now figuring out something that was OBVIOUS from the START

[kentuck]

61. I may be slow...

But I eventually get there. :-)

[Skittles]

69. did I really say ASS KISSING?

you should be kicking MY ass :D

[taught_me_patience]

62. The bailout of AIG, FNM, and FRE

are the big scams. TARP was a diversion to the real bailout, which was throug these entities.

[Odin2005]

64. It was a grand theft, plain and simple.

[RegieRocker]

65. Yes

and the motives that say otherwise are motivated by greed because they have investments etc. Plain and simple. Don't listen to their nonsense.

[TBF]

66. We'd afford it just fine by cutting defense 90%. nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. The bank bailout was first thing that angered the left-wingers and right-wingers equally

on my local paper's website. (The second was a scandal in which nursing home employees abused patients. It was heartening to see both righties and lefties appalled by that.)

I was suspicious of TARP, but I KNEW it was a scam when the banksters were allowed to keep their bonuses "because contracts are sacred" while the auto workers were forced to give up THEIR contracts. That was the thing that ended all doubts about whose side Obama is on.

[DeSwiss]

68. K&R

"And Barack Obama and the Democrats bought it."

- Or, are a part of it.....

[truedelphi]

71. I am sorry but a great deal of your info re: this topic is flawed.

The Bank Bailout might have been something favored by George W Bush.

But it passed the Senate precisely because Barack Obama, who was running for President during the Fall of 2008, convinced the other Senate members to vote for it. He had plenty of help from Hillary Clinton. And Pelosi saw to it that it got passed in the House of Representatives.

And besides the issue of it's passing in the Democratic held Congress, the 700 Billion dollar TARP payments are only about six percent of the monies that have been released by the Federal Reserve, and The Us Treasury to date. In fact, there has been about Eleven Trillion dollars given to the Biggest of the Financial Players. However there are critics of the policies that now believe as much as 30 TRILLION dollars has been given away.

If you wanna see a chart that presents this information graphically, please go to www.tinyrevolution.com, until you see the header related to Financial graph.

Our country could probably handle a single, 700 Billion dollars of TARP.

But it cannot handle the other nine and a half to twenty nine Trillion and a half dollars being handed out willy nilly to the Upper Elite, who have been sitting on the money and doing nothing with it that creates jobs here for American citizens. (For instance, Goldman Sachs recently acquired vast holdings in Patagonia, which certainly doesn't allow any one in the Northern Hemisphere to have a job, except maybe the graphic designer in NYC that prints up the catalog about this natural preserve, and a few American zoologists.)

[kentuck]

73. I cannot disagree with that.

In the end, I think more Democrats than Repubs voted for the TARP?

[truedelphi]

100. It is true that more Dems voted for it than Republicans.

But the thing about TARP, it was planned from the get-go by Paulson and Bernanke to be a media distraction.

While the two of them shovelled out TRILLIONS, the media focused on TARP. Which at certain points has been somewhat paid back. (If using new TARP like funds to pay back the original TARP payments, and/or using tax breaks counts as payback.)

[MannyGoldstein]

75. Why do you want the Palin to be President?

Are you a PUMA?

[sendero]

115. Who cares?

Economically, she could NOT be worse than Obama.

[MannyGoldstein]

118. Interesting point. I'd like to think you're wrong

Need to think about it.

[HughBeaumont]

126. Actually, she very much COULD.

[OwnedByFerrets]

131. How?

[HughBeaumont]

134. Would there be talk of extending unemployment benefits under her? For ANYone?

As not-too-far reaching as the Stimulus was, would we see ANY such action under a President Palin?

Would we thrive under a president that fails to recognize the role government has to play in an economic recovery?

As bad as everyone thinks he is, Barack Obama reduced what could have been Great Depression II: Bigger Longer and Uncut into a mere catastrophe.

Sorry, I got enough doom and gloom in my own life with the horrible six months I've had.

[jimlup]

77. The way it was eventually handled was a huge scam...

But the initial bailout was essential if we didn't want the economy to crash hard. But the way that it was done and what followed showed us who is really in control in our society. The bankers should not have had the power to hold the economy hostage in order to force the politicians to do as they ask. The politicians should have immediately come back with: "yeah, you'll get your bailout but it will cost you your controlling interest". Further, they should have taken steps to insure that the abuses could not continue. We all know that they didn't.

[Foo Fighter]

78. Not only was it a scam, it was a violation of the law.

There was a law passed after the S&L scandal (Title 12 of the US Code) that mandates that severely undercapitalized banks be put into receivership. Here's a quote from Bill Black:

BILL MOYERS: In other words, they could have closed these banks without nationalizing them?

WILLIAM K. BLACK: Well, you do a receivership. No one -- Ronald Reagan did receiverships. Nobody called it nationalization.

BILL MOYERS: And that's a law?

WILLIAM K. BLACK: That's the law.

I had to cut it short stay within DU rules but here's a couple of links. The first contains snippets of both the interview and the law that was violated and the second contains the full interview. The second is well worth the read if you have the time.

http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/william-black-bill-moyers-journal-drops-bailout-bomb-obama

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/transcript1.html

[Kaleko]

157. William K. Black is one of the few honest-to-goodness experts

whose analysis can be trusted, and I suspect most everybody in the financial services field knows that.

If Black had been appointed by Obama instead of Geithner, Summers and their cronies, we would have instantly known that Obama truly meant to fulfill his campaign promises.

Too bad that the suffering will be compounded now until the next collapse, and the next one after that.

[Foo Fighter]

162. You're right on that.

He knows he's talking about doesn't hesitate to tell it like it is.

If Bill Black had Geithner's job, it would be a whole different ballgame. Unfortunately, Obama's cabinet picks just serve to show that the fix is in.

Things are bad now but I suspect the next two years will be even worse.

[slay]

79. Yep - that and the tax cuts for millionaires

the whole American government is looking more and more like a scam these days - just there to protect their corporate masters. :mad: :grr:

[WinkyDink]

80. "He" didn't "decide" anything; his Masters did. They didn't corrupt the SCOTUS for NOTHING!

[JDPriestly]

89. It was a scam. That is absolutely true in my opinion.

[ooglymoogly]

91. Kr..The folks on this post who loved the bailout will double heart QE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k&feature=related

[go west young man]

92. I too though it all a scam.

When the media went after Madoff that December it made it clear.
They wanted us to look at that house of cards/ponzi scheme and
not the robbery in broad daylight that was right in front of us.
After all the media and the banks share the same members on their
board of directors. The American public is so dumbed down, lethargic,
and apathetic they just took it right up the ass.

[tavalon]

94. I can't resist

What was your first clue? Mine was Paulson holding up the cute puppy with the 357 magnum to its head. Give us the bailout or the puppy gets it.

[jonthebru]

97. The religious right are very happy.

I have a feeling the illogical efforts being made to destroy the middle class are feeding the christian rights effort to create a theocracy in the United States. When times are bad and people feel threatened they often fall for religious rhetoric. The World Trade Center attacks showed that Americans are vulnerable and gullible when under attack. Add to that the fact that people were willing to sacrifice "freedoms" to protect the nations' well being.
The middle class drives the consumer economy. Killing it off, which is what is happening, defeats the effort of the rich to get richer. As the rich grab more and more of the nations worth, the middle class consumer buying power falls. All the industrial and manufacturing jobs provided people with incomes to buy things, lots of things for lots of years. Companies grew and the rich got richer. Now with the incomes of the middle class falling across the board, purchasing choices change. The "consumer" economy chokes and we all suffer. Many Americans are beginning to understand that "things will never be the same".
I don't understand why the government is allowing this to happen. One theory I have is the attempt to control the federal level and many local governments by the christian right. They endeavor to recreate the nation with a theocratic government. Rules set out by the "good book" would rule our lives...
This could only happen if the people allow it. Consciously creating a very bad economy and national situation could draw people to church and put them under the conservatives spell.

"Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells."

Roger Waters "Breathe Reprise" DSOTM

I could go on but I will instead suggest looking up the "dominionism" movement and other conservative christian organizations.

[sendero]

116. It is certainly clear..

... that this mess didn't just "happen". The ultimate goal is unclear, but I'm sure we'll find out before too long.

In the meantime, I just keep doing what I've been doing since 2006, work to insulate myself and my family from what is happening as much as I can. Because there is nothing else I can do about it.

[LaPera]

98. Not a moment too soon.....

Bush signed the bank bailout bill on Oct. 3rd 2008!

[Anakin Skywalker]

102. Sure looks like it. A wreckage left by a cowboy in a ten-gallon hat.

[Still a Democrat]

113. Sadly, I think it was needed

I blame Bush for lack of oversight and blind faith in those undeserving.

He was all too in with blind confidence in the ethics of bankers and any other private sector types that were recklessly greedy or out and out crooked.

But I'm convinced the bailout was a necessary evil. Hopefully financial reform will help avoid a redo.

[KansDem]

122. "But I'm convinced the bailout was a necessary evil."

Why?

Why not let them fail?

Isn't that the main tenet of capitalism? You plan well and work hard and you succeed? You blunder and slack off and you fail?

Isn't that the main tenet of capitalism, the "best of all economic systems," or so we're told by...capitalists?

Why bail out these bums?

[Still a Democrat]

138. Because of the financial collapse that would follow

It would have brought our economy down to it's knees, or worse, by most accounts.

[KansDem]

147. Then rebuild

Stop coddling these criminals.

Rebuild the system so it will benefit the populace and not just a few con-artists.

But now we saved their asses and gave them bonuses to boot!

Just let the system crash and burn then rebuild. It's the "capitalist" way...

[Still a Democrat]

150. Let the masses endure 25-30% unemployment to satisfy your lust to make them suffer?

Not for this progressive.

[KansDem]

154. "25-30% unemployment ?"

Please provide a source for this estimate. I'm not doubting you, but would like a source for future discussion.

And if 25-30% are unemployed, then how that would affect the national psyche? Think maybe the Banksters and Con Street artists would be looking at serious jail time?

You piss off 25-30% of the American people and even FOX News won't be able to defend these criminals.

Then rebuild the nation's economy. Take energy, education, health care, and the environment out of private hands and put them where they should be: with the public. In short, nationalize them.

These concerns are national security issues and shouldn't be left with private corporations.

It hasn't worked, so let's start fresh and rebuild...

[BzaDem]

158. How do you know they wouldn't take all their anger on Democrats?

We have something called a Constitution. Not a dictatorship.

The nation might be rebuilt into something that would make you long for the "good old days" of today.

[bettyellen]

161. if the ecomomy crashed we'd have nothing but Republicans voted in for 10 years or more.

we'd have lost both house and senate and Obama would be the lamest duck ever.

[iamjoy]

114. It Was a Mugging

so, imagine you're walking down the sidewalk and some jerk jumps out of an alley with a gun and demands you hand over your wallet/purse. It's quite clear that if you don't, you're going to get shot. But the thing is, you can't really be sure that even handing over the goods without resistance won't result in you getting hurt anyway because the mugger thinks it's not enough, or you're hiding something or is maybe just bat sh** crazy.

We got mugged and our government aided and abetted.

[blindpig]

117. It was Capitalism...

Why do you think they work so hard to control the government? Gotta get some value for the investment.......

[maryf]

123. +2

those gov't workers want a living wage too...

[felix_numinous]

119. Yep, it was a national priority that this money be immediately available

so it could disappear forever in overseas accounts. If this does not define blatant criminal activity I don't know what does.

[KansDem]

121. Goodbye, "Big Government." Hello, "Big Corporation."

I only wonder what will happen when the big corporations decide to fight each other. Will we be caught up in it like warring mobs in Chicago during the era of Al Capone?

[maryf]

125. Remember "Roller Ball"?...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IguzgGx7y-8

Not like we need another hero, we need us all to be heroes...stand up to the corporate paradigm.

[OwnedByFerrets]

130. I agree with everything you say EXCEPT.....

Monkeyboy wasnt behind this. He was merely the puppet that was used to convey the scam. The "powers that be" were the ones that have had the last laugh.

[bullwinkle428]

132. The most naked example of "privatize the profits, socialize the losses" that

has probably taken place in this country, although it's been happening for quite some time, and will continue to occur at an even more rapid pace, by all indications.

[deutsey]

135. When Bush couldn't privatize Social Security, this was the next best thing n/t

[mzmolly]

136. Ah Democrats changed the rules. Obama demanded a return on the money.

Bush did not. The differences make a difference. Remember that Kentuck. Paul Wellstone did.

[The Backlash Cometh]

139. Grover Norquist inspired, I'm sure.

He knew where he was going with this.

[Still a Democrat]

141. "pushed through a Medicare prescription bill of about $600 billion dollars plus"

Did you oppose that?

[davidwparker]

144. Welcome to the club.

Scenario: The administration who lied from day 1 comes in just before the presidential election and says: We are on the brink of a depression.

What do you think? Lie.

Randi had a good joke: This was the equivalent of stealing the silverware on the way out the door.

Yes, it was theft and "starve the beast" was a delightful bonus.

[walldude]

146. Matt Tiabbi has a new book "Griftopia" that lays out

the whole scam.

[pansypoo53219]

149. Paulson ran it 1st, so of course

he did bad. should have waited to give the money til obama got in.

[kentuck]

151. It helps to remember that Bush never told the truth one time while in office...

...even when it was to his benefit, he would lie. Why did we think he was telling the truth about the banks?

[earth mom]

159. FYI-it's Obama's bankster gangster bailout now.

The bangster gangster bailout was the most massive scam EVER!

It was Enron on steriods x trillions of taxpayer monies!

Many of us here on DU were telling you and others the truth from day one and you all wouldn't listen! :banghead: