"Deadbeat" parents locked up in modern day debtors' prisons

[Rage for Order]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_deadbeat_parents_lawyers

A South Carolina father who was repeatedly jailed after insisting he couldn't make child-support payments of about $50 a week is asking the U.S. Supreme Court to end five states' practice of locking up delinquent parents without providing them with a lawyer.

In a case that will be argued before the high court on Wednesday, Michael Turner contends that poor people who are facing time behind bars for missing payments have a constitutional right to an attorney at taxpayer expense. Florida, Maine, New Hampshire and Ohio are the other states where deadbeat parents are not automatically given a lawyer in such cases.

By at least one estimate, hundreds of people a year in those states do time for not paying child support — a practice some advocates say penalizes both parent and child. "It's a heinous situation. Jail just becomes a revolving door. We're locking up the poor," said Michael McCormick, executive director for the American Coalition for Fathers and Children. "Child-support lockups are debtors' prisons."

Opponents say that providing lawyers would prove costly and would clog up an already cumbersome legal process and that deadbeats already control their own destinies: If they pay, they go free. In its ruling against Tucker, the South Carolina Supreme Court said a delinquent dad holds "the keys to his cell because he may end the imprisonment and purge himself of the sentence at any time" by paying at least some of what is owed.


Much more at the link.

Given the current economic climate (and that of the last few years), I find it unconscionable that people are imprisoned because they can't pay their debts. I thought we did away with this shit a few hundred years ago?

[Orrex]

1. How long before they start taking children away from their impoverished parents?

For the children's own good, of course...

[Donnachaidh]

10. here come the orphan trains

Jeez -- we're hurtling into the dark ages...

[Land Shark]

26. already happening all over the place. But your tagline does say funnier than ....

It's called "neglect". Sometime's its real, sometimes and all too often it's just being short of money for too long. If one is rich, one can always hire a good nanny or such and thus not be 'neglectful.'

[shanti]

2. for profit jails

there's a lot of money to be made from this practice, you can bet on it.

[hifiguy]

12. We have a winner!

Ding, ding, ding!

[w4rma]

3. How does anyone pay these fees while they are jailed? (nt)

[bengalherder]

4. Why, probably by working at one of those highly paid prison industry jobs

until they make the scratch.

Given the current high unemployment rates, an attorney to help them make their case is not going to hurt. I'm sure there are probably a few 'deadbeats' who really have been trying but aren't doing any better financially than some of the folk here.

[happyslug]

5. You be surprised how many come up with money to get out of jail

Happens, over and over again. Now my courts, if the parent who has an order to pay child support (can be a mother as while as a father, sometimes both parents are paying support) makes reasonable efforts to look for work (generally a list of job applications) or show he is starting a new job, they do NOT go to jail, it is the payee parent who is still claiming he has no money and made no reasonable effort to find work (Or is working under the tables so his wages can not be attached) are the parents who are jailed. Often months after the parent with the child is behind in debts incurred to feed and cloth the child AND months after the parent with the child has reported the paying parent has money, just not being reported, does the parent goes to jail.

My courts have left people who are in Collage, who have been laid off and can not find a job, or has suffered from a medical injury to reduce their child support orders to nothing, but sooner or later some sort of payment HAS to be made (unless the parent is put on SSI, then no payment is expected for to be on SSI the Social Security Administration would have had to rule that the Parent can NOT work and does NOT have a work history so to get Social Security Disability). Often if the parent who owes child support goes to jail, you be surprise how much money that parent comes up with to pay on the support obligations.

While, I the above is true and I have seen the money appear once a parent goes to jail, I also agree the parent, if facing jail time, should be entitled to an attorney. Just because he is a dead beat does not mean he may NOT have a good reason for NOT making his payments and an attorney can bring that up to the Judge better then most lay people.

[xmas74]

7. I know my kid's dad finds the money

every time they arrest him.

I'm sure there are some out there that cannot afford it, no matter what. In my personal experience, the ex never has any money until the warrant is issued. Once the warrant is issued, he suddenly finds the money to bond out. (He always has a "cash only" bond, since he tends to FTA in court.)

In my house, it's almost like Christmas when he's arrested. We know that, within six months, we'll have a decent child support payment.

[villager]

6. well, that's bound to help the kids out a lot...

I mean, a lot better than seizing the economy back from the bankers, or something...

[kevinbgoode]

8. This is unconscionable. How is the father supposed to TRY to

earn more money to pay on the debt if he is in jail? Does the state of South Carolina provide paid wages and work to prisoners? And why would we shift the responsibility of the father - and the child - onto the taxpayers of the state, who suddenly have to provide food and shelter to possibly both of them? It makes little sense to me.

Moreover, I get so sick and tired of conservatives talking about "paying" things - as if they have any grasp that good people would love to "pay" if they had enough damn money TO pay.

[Rage for Order]

9. Kick for the morning crowd

:kick:

[booley]

11. They admit these are debtors prisons

From the guys advocating this..."If they pay, they go free"

Funny, that's how one got out of debtors prisons.

OF course this makes the assumption one has money with which to pay.

And in today's economy (hell, in every economy that has ever existed) this was never a forgone conclusion.

Not to say there aren't dead beat parents.

But one's rights should not be ignored to make things more convenient.

[treestar]

13. It's for contempt of court

It is not a debtor's prison. It is for disobeying the court's order. A lot of the time the obligor needs to make a motion to change the child support judgment amount, if he's no longer able to make the money - but that's another issue.

Generally they will pay due to other penalties - losing driver's licenses or passports. And there are wage attachments.

But those who don't care about whether they have their license, passport, and don't have a W-2 job - they can get away with not paying.

[Taitertots]

15. It is not a debtor's prison, it is just imprisoning people for not paying a debt

[Rage for Order]

29. I can't tell if your response is sarcasm

It seems like it is, but these days one can never be sure

[Ilsa]

14. Locking them up is ridiculous, serves no purpose.

But there are deadbeat dads like hubby's cousin that has enjoyed the free meals and hanging out with the other guys. Before you jump me, don't criticize me; he said it was no big deal for him. He liked getting his three squares and kicking back.

[Taitertots]

16. Maybe we will stop making men pay for children they don't want

Instead of locking up poor people because they can't afford to raise someone else's child. I say someone else's because if they are not allowed the same role in the child's life from conception to adulthood than it certainly isn't their's.

Not providing them with legal representation during the process only makes this extra egregious.

[Horse with no Name]

18. I honestly can't believe you said that

Seriously. It is THEIR child. If they do not want spawn on the earth, then they need to snip their dicks or tie their tubes...otherwise, they are 100% financially responsible for what comes forth from their act of sex for 18 years--regardless of visitation, etc.

Child support is about the CHILD, not the parents. It is about responsibility of taking care of something you put on earth.

Now personally? IF my fucktard ex-son-in-law would just sign the papers and walk away--he could keep the half million dollars he is ordered to pay in support. He is NOT a good influence in the child's life and she screams and cries when she has to go--if she even sees a vehicle like his she cries...but by fucking God if we have to give this precious child to him every other weekend, you can bet your ass he will pay. But anytime he doesn't want to pay...he can sign the papers and take a walk. If he doesn't pay and doesn't want to sign her over...I'll personally watch his ass be dragged off to jail.

[Taitertots]

19. If the women doesn't want to be responsible for something she is putting on earth she can ....

get an abortion. If your daughter didn't want to raise a child by herself than she should stop having sex with people who don't want children.

[Horse with no Name]

20. Oh trust me...we want the child

We spent over $25k on a custody battle fighting for her.

We would gladly raise her without her father. But he chooses not to sign papers. So, until the day he decides to do that, we absolutely will INSIST on him paying his child support--or gleefully watch his sorry ass carted off to jail for not doing so. Different situation than most, he can afford it whether he works or not.

Oh, by the way, most women do have sex with their husbands. Maybe your wife didn't--and honestly, I wouldn't blame her.

[Taitertots]

21. Sounds like a fairly non-typical situation

You spent $25K fighting to prevent him from having access to the child. Now you want him to pay you or lose access to the child and you think this is somehow fair.

So he gets unequal access and has to give up access if he wants to stop giving you money. And you think this is fair?

[Darth_Kitten]

25. Do you know this guy? You seem to have a major chip on your shoulder.

Seems like the "father" in this case is a major passive/aggressive jerk.

Let's make it simple, deadbeat dads should pay, not society.

[Horse with no Name]

28. You are such a manipulator of words

We paid $25k to keep a child we wanted and cherished in HER safe and stable home--instead of seeing her go to people that are undeserving of children--2 were killed in a preventable accident, 1 had 3rd degree burns to feet when they ran through a fire, and another had serious head injuries and was still permitted to do dangerous activities and keep on sustaining injuries--to the point of almost incapacitation. So yeah, we don't want her in their "care". A sane person wouldn't blame us--and the judge agreed.

However, he gets standard visitation. Nobody is denying him that. HE moved 15 hours away. HE limited his own access to this child. FWIW--when he lived with her, he held her a total of THREE times in one year--her FIRST year of life. What a good Dad he was!:sarcasm:

WE don't want him to "pay us or lose access"...that was totally the decision of the court. BUT yet when he plays games with his child support and goes 2-3 months without paying--he is still permitted to pick her up. You wanna know why???BECAUSE VISITATION AND CHILD SUPPORT ARE TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES.
They occur completely independent of each other.

I never said he HAD to give up access--just stated IF he doesn't want to fulfill his financial obligation--HIS only recourse is to sign her over to my daughter. If HE wants to not pay his obligation and NOT sign over his rights--I will hold open the cell door. It is completely HIS choice of what HE wants to do. As I said...he is wealthy. He could write a check for a half a million dollars right now and not miss a beat. It is a different circumstance than someone who is unemployed.

[xmas74]

33. Sounds like we're in the same boat.

If my ex would sign over papers I'd be in seventh heaven. Until he does so I want my child support in hand on the same day every month. If not, I'd be only too happy to watch him to go prison for violating his probation.

[Darth_Kitten]

22. That's so wrong and so disrespectful...

I guess to you her daughter should have read the guy's mind? :eyes:

Maybe men should realize that if they don't want kids, don't have sex. OOOO, what a concept. :sarcasm:

[Lyric]

23. Why do you assume that he told her he didn't want children?

I'm sorry--are you under the VERY mistaken impression that only women lie?

:eyes:

[Liquorice]

24. I can believe it. It's true that child support is for the child, but there

are a lot of sick and very selfish people in the world who don't give a damn about the kid. They're petty and vindictive and refuse to financially (or otherwise) care about their own children. I'm sorry your family has to deal with one of them. It's so sad, especially with the psychological damage these deadbeat fathers do to their children.

[crazyjoe]

31. wtf does a child need half a million dollars for? I wouldn't pay it either.

sounds like someone's trying to "cash in" to me.

[Horse with no Name]

34. That is what the child is entitled to because of what her Dad has

The amount was set according to state law. It's hers legally.
They have been to court twice to attempt to lower it. The second time they pulled that nonsense, the judge actually raised it to the highest amount allowed because of the bullshit they have pulled.

He doesn't want to pay? He can go to jail. He can rot there if he so chooses.

On edit:
Would it make you mad to know that THEIR money comes because they lied and were able to fleece someone else AND that their lawsuit probably cost thousands of jobs to people who had nothing to do with it?

[lies and propaganda]

27. SICKENING. Absolutely revolting.

Cant believe I read such shit by someone who is at least smart enough to use a computer.

[xmas74]

32. Then maybe, in some cases,

the men need to sign over their damn rights instead of holding on to them as a means of making everyones lives miserable. Otherwise, it's their kid and they need to pay up.

And some of the men bitching and moaning about this have chosen to have nothing to do with the child in the first place, yet complain about visitation the moment the state makes them pay their child support. They need to man up, get a job, and support the kid. The kid has no say in the matter and they don't deserve a deadbeat father or mother, whatever the case may be.

I wish they'd lock my ex up. We'd get $30 a month in child support, which is more than we normally receive. An added bonus would be that we could actually locate him if he's in prison somewhere. Maybe the prison would give us his medical history too, since he refuses to tell me anything that my child should know about his family.

In some cases, prison can be a good thing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. If a parent is capable of financially supporting his/her children, he/she should do so

But the law should provide alternate arrangements for parents who are unemployed.

[Rage for Order]

30. +1

That would seem to be the reasonable approach. You should have to pay if you have the means, but you should not be sent to jail if you don't have the means to pay