John Cole: A former wingnut and reformed mindless warmonger learns a painful lesson.

[Fumesucker]

http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/03/22/this-is-what-i-hoped-to-avoid/

I’ve learned something very interesting the past few days, which is that after mindlessly warmongering and supporting a debacle in Iraq and intractable mess in Afghanistan, it is somehow a personal failure on my part that I need to be persuaded to engage in another military adventure. You would think that setting your default position for supporting military action to “Show me why we should do it and until then no” would be what we might bluntly call LEARNING FROM YOUR PAST FUCKING MISTAKES, but apparently that is just not the case. Turns out that is, according to many of you, just being block-headed in a different way. Interesting, that.

What makes it even funnier is that I don’t really have a say in things- nor do any of you. Not sure if you are paying attention, but they went ahead and got involved in Libya regardless what any of us thought, for or against, and right now we’re just holding post hoc pissing matches. Nothing we say or do is going to get us out of Libya a day before the powers that be decide it is time to go. See also, Afghanistan and Iraq, where no one in positions of power gives two hoots in hell what the public thinks. So holler at me all you want, bury your uterus in WACO, do whatever you need- it doesn’t really matter anyway. About all you can do is hope more shit like this doesn’t make the rounds:

US admiral refuses to deny that a US helicopter sent to rescue downed airmen opened fire on Libyan villagers. A witness reportedly said the rescue team fired shots to keep the Libyans away, then swooped in and rescued one of the crew. Six Libyans are said to be wounded. The F-15E Strike Eagle jet was conducting a mission on Monday night when it crashed outside Benghazi, apparently from a malfunction.

Neither the military denials nor the initial reports from the ground should be seen as credible, but stories like these live on, regardless.

[Rex]

1. So, when one 'refuses to deny' something they are actually admitting

to said something without saying the words 'admits to'? Guess he couldn't legally admit to anything, so he refused to deny. Smart. Or stupid.

[Fumesucker]

3. Military "logic" is often orthogonal to what civilians are pleased to think of as sensible..

[Catherina]

2. We got people right here denying it. Rec'd n/t

[Catherina]

4. Rec'd. Most of the comments are great too

It’s surprising how many liberals I’ve heard in the past 48 hours tell me that the main mistake of Iraq was not that the war was on a false pretense, not the arrogance of believing that magic freedom ponies would materialize, not the lack of any idea what we’d do once we got there or understanding the consequences for Iraqi civilians, but that the United Nations said no. Since they said yes this time, it’s totally cool. Right.

We are truly in Orwellian times when those on the right are criticizing Obama for getting us into a military engagement in the Middle East…without checking with Congress first…without weighing the consequences, exit strategy, etc.

You’d almost think that to an American president, almost without regard to party or circumstance, when given the huge-a$$ hammer that is the American military, every problem in an oil producing country looks like a nail…

Some representative democracy.

I voted for the guy who was the least likely to start another war. That was the alpha and omega of my choice, both in the primary and the general. And yes, given the choices, he WAS the least likely to start another war.

Fuck me I guess.

[Fumesucker]

5. I liked this one from "curveball" .

HEY! Change of subject!

Given that the US forces leaving Vietnam (finally!) led to the communists taking over and unifying the country under communist rule,

Was the Gulf of Tonkin resolution the right way to go?

I say if it weren’t for the Dirty F***king Hippies, especially those who were for the Vietnam War before they were against it, we’d have won the war and communism would be an after thought today. What say you?

[Catherina]

6. Lol. I just read this comment on another blog but it goes along nicely

Obama, the peace candidate
I am sure that in 2012 when Obama runs for re-election, he would pledge to end the war in Libya (along with the two other more famous wars).
Posted by As'ad AbuKhalil at 9:05 AM

One moment I laugh, the next I want to cry. I can't believe this is the state we're in now.

[malaise]

7. Same here

but at least the tax cuts for the rich prepared me.

[Catherina]

8. The FISA vote was what prepared me

but I'm still constantly astounded at the lengths and the speed. If the democratic party wants to win in 2012, it's going to have to find someone with a record because words and pretty speeches aren't going to cut it anymore.

June 2008:

This Administration has put forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand. When I am president, there will be no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens; no more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime; no more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. Our Constitution works, and so does the FISA court.

March, 2008:

"Our greatest tool in advancing democracy is our own example. That's why I will end torture, end extraordinary rendition and indefinite detentions; restore habeas corpus; and close the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay."

Dec. 20, 2007:

“The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.”

2006:

"In Sunday's New York Times, it was reported that previous drafts of the recently released National Intelligence Estimate . . . describe "actions by the United States Government that were determined to have stoked the jihad movement, like the indefinite detention of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay." This is not just unhelpful in our fight against terror, it is unnecessary."