Way to go Dennis ~ now the rwwackos are digging up clips of other Dems saying Impeachment

[jillan]

Talk about handing the nuts a present on a silver platter.... And while YES Dennis makes valid points, pick up the phone and call the WH next time and bitch and vent to them all you want but stay out of the press. I'm sure you have a phone number.

Here's a clip they found from the VP from 2007..... but of course they don't tell you that....instead they tell you this:

Say, maybe this is why Barack Obama has decided to shave a couple of hours off of his South America tour by skipping the Mayan ruins in South America. With Joe Biden insisting that he would personally take charge of impeaching a President that launched military action against another country without getting authorization from Congress, Obama may feel the need to race back to Washington to keep his own VP from ousting him from the Oval Office.

Here was Biden's comments in 2007....

Ladies and gentlemen, I drafted an outline of what I think the Constitutional limits have on the President with the War Clause. I went to five leading scholars, Constitutional scholars, and they drafted a treatise for me that is being distributed to every Senator. And I want to make it clear, and I’ll make it clear to the President: that if he takes this nation to war in Iran, without Congressional approval, I will make it my business to impeach him.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/03/23/biden-we-should-impeach-presidents-who-launch-attacks-without-congressional-approval/
(sorry about that website, but I originally saw this story on Huffington Post)



Next???

On edit - One day someone is going to have to explain to me why Democrats always eat their own??? This has gone viral.

[meow mix]

1. gilligan!!

fucking saboteurs

[The Straight Story]

2. Our job is not to protect Obama, his actions should do that on their own (nt)

[Taverner]

5. Why is this such an unpopular opinion?

Its as if war is only justified as if there's a D next to your name

[jillan]

10. It's not that, Dennis may be right, but saying Impeachment in the press??? That's what I take issue

with.

[Taverner]

13. Well I think he kind of overreacted too, but being that he's one of the few calling the prez on this

Is what makes me mad

[ReggieVeggie]

41. You really should know what you're talking about

A hard-core group of liberal House Democrats is questioning the constitutionality of U.S. missile strikes against Libya, with one lawmaker raising the prospect of impeachment during a Democratic Caucus conference call on Saturday.

Reps. Jerrold Nadler (N.Y.), Donna Edwards (Md.), Mike Capuano (Mass.), Dennis Kucinich (Ohio), Maxine Waters (Calif.), Rob Andrews (N.J.), Sheila Jackson Lee (Texas), Barbara Lee (Calif.) and Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D.C.) “all strongly raised objections to the constitutionality of the president’s actions” during that call, said two Democratic lawmakers who took part.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51595.html#ixzz1HTjscOvb

Maybe you should talk to the two assholes who decided to leak that to the press!

[Luminous Animal]

47. Exactly. The reading comprehension on DU is deplorable.

[revolutionnow45]

33. because Kucinich is a hypocrite

There are two illegal immoral wars that Bush still needs to be held accountable for
Elizabeth de la Vega's Criminal Indictment of George W. Bush Et A-NOW is the time to go after them
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x715679



Kucinich did not push for impeachment of Bush- why so fast to jump on Obama?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x710981

[Taverner]

36. ...And the character asassination contines on the "Kuch"

I hope you at least get paid for such misinformation

[revolutionnow45]

38. I wish!

I wish I would have gotten paid for the two presidential campaigns I worked on for him too.

I know a more about Kucinich now than I ever would have wished for. Over time he has disappointed me to the point where I cannot listen to him anymore. I mean honestly, asking for money for this?

He asked for money to support single payer WHY? Then he did that whole plane trip with Obama and backed down. WTF!

Why isn't he pursuing accountability of Bush? This is just absurd to attack Obama for finally doing something right.

I am not one to defend Obama, but for once he is right and the Dems attack him.

I believe there is a concerted effort to make liberals look cruel and heartless 'we can't afford to help'

and to make Bush look better 'see those liberals always complain, Iraq was a good thing after all'... When they are not even close to the same situation.

We had a no fly zone in Iraq and it was working just fine until Bush kicked the inspectors out and bombed the hell out of the people.

[Taverner]

39. Explain your examples

Take it off line if you have to

[revolutionnow45]

40. ??

explain yourself- what do you want to know exactly?

[Taverner]

43. Look, I'm not disagreeing with you - but if he didn't pay you for services rendered

That's a pretty hefty charge

[mod mom]

8. +1 Stand by principles or march lockstep?

[emulatorloo]

11. Our job is not to promote baseless dumb Impeachment Fantasies either

to the rw idiots.

[Luminous Animal]

48. Kucinich never advocated for impeachment. He stated IN A PRIVATE CONVERSION AMONGST LIB DEMS

that what Obama did could be an impeachable offense. This in a conversation with other liberal Dems who were expressing concern over the legality of Obama's action.

Two of those liberals leaked the contents of that PRIVATE CONVERSATION to the right wing press. Myself, I'd like to know who leaked.

[Tippy]

3. I always thought Dennis

had some common sense...boy was I wrong

[KaryninMiami]

4. I love Dennis but sometimes it appears he doesn't think things through before sounding off

I actually agree with him most of the time and have sent him money for his campaign since I respect and admire him tremendously. But screaming impeachment now is not good timing- not when things are so precarious and the right wing nut jobs are so eager to pounce and re-spin. Express frustration or disappointment but impeachment is over the top and not necessary.

[jillan]

6. That sums up my feelings perfectly, Karyn.

[EFerrari]

57. The problem isn't Dennis speaking up.

The problem is most Democrats not speaking up.

They leave the field to the Republicans. That's not Dennis's responsibility. He's doing his job.

[krispos42]

7. When the people of Iraq rose up against Saddam, Pres. Bush turned away and let them be slaughtered

Shove that up your ass, Repubes. The next fact you have on your side will be the first.

[Modern_Matthew]

9. Nah. Kucinich didn't make the decision to go into Libya. The President brought it on himself. nt

[emulatorloo]

12. UN RESOLUTION 1973

[Indydem]

15. UN RESOLUTION 1973 DOES NOT TRUMP THE CONSTITUTION.

Period. End of story.

[emulatorloo]

19. You all act as if this happened in a vacumm

That was my point.

As to the sudden DU obsession with the constitution, there are several arguments around that explain the relation of US resolutions to treaties etc.,

Additionally I beleive Obama has notified congress according to his responsibilities under the War Powers Act,

Now DK may not like this, but it isn't "IMPEACHABLE"

[Luminous Animal]

51. DU was obsessed with the Constitution when Bush was in office. DU remains obsessed during Obama's

term.

[phleshdef]

29. The constitution trumps the constitution though.

And the constitution says the UN Resolution is to be upheld as the law the of the land because its a treaty we signed. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

[Luminous Animal]

50. No it does not. The Supremecy Clause applies to the states not to the Federal Govt.

The Supreme Court has affirmed that the Constitution prevails over treaties. And, in matters of military action, the UN Charter recognizes Constitutional sovereignty of every country that ratifies.

[phleshdef]

56. Constitutional sovereignty isn't an issue. The UN charter in question does not contradict it.

Congress ratified the UN charter which authorized the President make military assistance available to the UN Security Council whenever it was called for. By doing that, Congress inherently already "ok'ed" military actions requested by the UN security council in general. The only way a President would have to go to Congress for the purpose of satisfying the UN charter is if Congress somehow amended or changed that agreement. Yes, Congress does have to approve these things. But for the purpose of taking the call when the UN security council makes said call, that was approved by Congress decades ago. Thats the part everyone seems to be missing.

[Luminous Animal]

58. The charter is clear... "in accordance with their respective constitutional processes."

Sovereignty was a thoroughly debated issue and concluded by the insertion of the bolded section below"

1. All Members of the United Nations, in order to contribute to the maintenance of international peace and security, undertake to make available to the Security Council, on its call and in accordance with a special agreement or agreements, armed forces, assistance, and facilities, including rights of passage, necessary for the purpose of maintaining international peace and security.
2. Such agreement or agreements shall govern the numbers and types of forces, their degree of readiness and general location, and the nature of the facilities and assistance to be provided.
3. The agreement or agreements shall be negotiated as soon as possible on the initiative of the Security Council. They shall be concluded between the Security Council and Members or between the Security Council and groups of Members and shall be subject to ratification by the signatory states in accordance with their respective constitutional processes.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter7.shtml

Supreme Court rules: "There is nothing new or unique about what we say here. This Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty"

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0354_0001_ZO.html

No matter how many times people try to claim the contrary, THE UN CHARTER DOES NOT TRUMP THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.

[phleshdef]

61. You are imagining arguments that no one has made while ignoring the ones that have been made.

When Congress ratified the charter, it gave approval for the President to answer the call of the UN Security Council.

There is no constitutional question here. You say Congress needs to approve it. What you are refusing to see is that Congress DID approve it decades ago.

[Upton]

14. It's not Kucinich's fault Obama started lobbing cruise missile into Libya

but, unlike many others, at least Kucinich has the balls to call him on it..

[Indydem]

16. +1 nt

[jillan]

17. Right - but to say it on the news, that's what I take issue with.

[CrispyQ]

24. Considering how the media has treated Kucinich over the years, I have to ask,

"Why is this elf-looking, peace-nik, vegan, who carries a pocket Constitution, getting any air time at all?" :crazy:

Just like the professional left is irrelevant to Obama until election time, Kucinich is irrelevant to the media until he says something useful to them. Perhaps he should sit down & shut up, like the left was told to do.

[zorahopkins]

20. Exactly Right!

President Obama is the one who violated the Constitution -- NOT Dennis Kucinich!

Kucinich has the guts to stand up and say, "NO!" to this terrible act of war.

[Auntie Bush]

18. Now I know why Dennis will never become president. He even

turns off many Democrats. Why do we always have to eat our own? ReThugs don't do it...why do we? Doesn't he and others realize we need every vote we can get to keep the Professional Thugs out of the White House. We don't need Dennis turning off more Indies and on the fence Dems and moderates. STFU Dennis!!

[mmonk]

21. First of all, Dennis is not planning to draw up articles. Secondly,

his positions on executive powers, congressional powers, and limitations, have merit.

[emulatorloo]

22. True about his positions, but what was the point of using the "IMPEACHMENT" word

DK got a little "TALK RADIO HYPERBOLIC" on this one.

[cottonseed]

23. So it's a lot like his record with passing actual bills?

All talk and no action?

[robcon]

25. Dennis may be stupid, but he's a person of integrity.

His Department of Peace may have been the single stupidest proposal in my lifetime, but Dennis has balls, and Dennis has consistency.

[jillan]

26. All I ask of him is that he shows his balls in private.

[democracy1st]

59. I agree with you about the bs impeachment talk and his Fox News interviews,but

Obama has just totally thrown the democratic party under the bus!

[JonLP24]

32. It was voted as one of the top 10 ideas

Also has support from Amnesty International. It wasn't a stupid idea if you read the proposal. It suggests we rehabilitate that prison population as well as drug & alcohol treatment among other things.

I personally think tax cuts during huge budget deficits is a lot dumber and I'm confident far more dumb ideas have been proposed than this. Marihuana Tax Act also comes to mind. Nixon's "War on Drugs" is another.

[Luminous Animal]

60. Because the Department of War (Now the Dept. of Defense) is so intellegent.

Hmmmm. Let's see, a department devoted to killing people or a department devoted to not killing people. I agree, a department devoted to killing people that eats up 50%+ of the national treasury is SO more pragmatic.

[grahamhgreen]

27. When will the buck stop where it belongs - on Obama's desk?

[Zorra]

28. Don't shoot the messenger. Rep. Kucinich stated the obvious.

Repubs would have done this anyway, regardless.

[Motown_Johnny]

31. simplistic and obvious do not mean the same thing.

go look up the war powers act


Kucinich is wrong


and there is a difference between the opposition attacking and the members of your own party attacking

[Zorra]

34. I have read the War Powers Act many times. I suspect that

Congress will now review the President's notification and reasons for attacking Libya (I am assuming you know what notification I am speaking of) and determine if he acted within the law (War Powers Act, Constitution).

Congress may have some serious issues with the President's justification for the attacks. We have a republican controlled House of Representatives with a large republican majority. I believe that if Congress determine that the President acted outside the law they could impeach him.

Representative Kucinich suggested that the President could be impeached. Not that he should be impeached.

It seems to me that many DUers, in their zeal fueled by an already ingrained dislike for Rep. Kucinich and his liberal ideas, and who have been attacking Rep. Kucinich for his statements, do not clearly understand the difference between the word "COULD" and "SHOULD". Here are the definitions, respectively, of the two words.

COULD: •Simple past of can; Used to politely ask for permission to do something; Used to politely ask for someone else to do something; Used to show the possibility that something might happen; Used to suggest something
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Could

SHOULD: •ought (to be or do something); Indicates that the subject of the sentence has some obligation to execute the sentence predicate; will likely (become or do something) Indicates that the subject of the sentence is likely to execute the sentence predicate; If; in case of; Indicates that its ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/should

War Powers Resolution of 1973

Public Law 93-148
93rd Congress, H. J. Res. 542
November 7, 1973

Joint Resolution

Concerning the war powers of Congress and the President.

Resolved by the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SHORT TITLE

SECTION 1. This joint resolution may be cited as the "War Powers Resolution".

PURPOSE AND POLICY

SEC. 2. (a) It is the purpose of this joint resolution to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgement of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicate by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations.
(b) Under article I, section 8, of the Constitution, it is specifically provided that the Congress shall have the power to make all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution, not only its own powers but also all other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

(c) The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.

CONSULTATION

SEC. 3. The President in every possible instance shall consult with Congress before introducing United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situation where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, and after every such introduction shall consult regularly with the Congress until United States Armed Forces are no longer engaged in hostilities or have been removed from such situations.

REPORTING

SEC. 4. (a) In the absence of a declaration of war, in any case in which United States Armed Forces are introduced--
(1) into hostilities or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances;
(2) into the territory, airspace or waters of a foreign nation, while equipped for combat, except for deployments which relate solely to supply, replacement, repair, or training of such forces; or
(3) in numbers which substantially enlarge United States Armed Forces equipped for combat already located in a foreign nation; the president shall submit within 48 hours to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate a report, in writing, setting forth--
(A) the circumstances necessitating the introduction of United States Armed Forces;
(B) the constitutional and legislative authority under which such introduction took place; and
(C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement.

(b) The President shall provide such other information as the Congress may request in the fulfillment of its constitutional responsibilities with respect to committing the Nation to war and to the use of United States Armed Forces abroad

(c) Whenever United States Armed Forces are introduced into hostilities or into any situation described in subsection (a) of this section, the President shall, so long as such armed forces continue to be engaged in such hostilities or situation, report to the Congress periodically on the status of such hostilities or situation as well as on the scope and duration of such hostilities or situation, but in no event shall he report to the Congress less often than once every six months.

CONGRESSIONAL ACTION

SEC. 5. (a) Each report submitted pursuant to section 4(a)(1) shall be transmitted to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate on the same calendar day. Each report so transmitted shall be referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the House of Representatives and to the Committee on Foreign Relations of the Senate for appropriate action. If, when the report is transmitted, the Congress has adjourned sine die or has adjourned for any period in excess of three calendar days, the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate, if they deem it advisable (or if petitioned by at least 30 percent of the membership of their respective Houses) shall jointly request the President to convene Congress in order that it may consider the report and take appropriate action pursuant to this section.

(b) Within sixty calendar days after a report is submitted or is required to be submitted pursuant to section 4(a)(1), whichever is earlier, the President shall terminate any use of United States Armed Forces with respect to which such report was submitted (or required to be submitted), unless the Congress (1) has declared war or has enacted a specific authorization for such use of United States Armed Forces, (2) has extended by law such sixty-day period, or (3) is physically unable to meet as a result of an armed attack upon the United States. Such sixty-day period shall be extended for not more than an additional thirty days if the President determines and certifies to the Congress in writing that unavoidable military necessity respecting the safety of United States Armed Forces requires the continued use of such armed forces in the course of bringing about a prompt removal of such forces.

(c) Notwithstanding subsection (b), at any time that United States Armed Forces are engaged in hostilities outside the territory of the United States, its possessions and territories without a declaration of war or specific statutory authorization, such forces shall be removed by the President if the Congress so directs by concurrent resolution.

[slipslidingaway]

45. + 1 n/t

[Motown_Johnny]

30. No, These Are Not Valid Points

The Commander in Chief has this authority and always has.

If Dennis doesn't like it he can invoke the war powers act. If he thinks the war powers act is unconstitutional then he should have challenged it in court years ago.

Nothing he says is valid and should not be treated as such.


Kucinich's district may disappear with redistricting. He is making as much noise as possible now because he could be very close to being out of a job.

[frylock]

35. oh noes!!1

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. If you think the Teabaggers/GOP weren't already

writing their speeches about this issue BEFORE Dennis Kucinich ever opened his mouth, I have a bridge to sell you. This has nothing to do with Dennis Kucinich saying what he said. This is about BO taking us into another WAR that we cannot afford. Period. Some people have Principles, some don't. Dennis DOES. If YOU support wars, that's on your conscience. Dennis sleeps well at night, I'm sure.

[ReggieVeggie]

42. It was Democrats who leaked Kucinich's comments to the press

Maybe you could get in touch with them and ream them a new one?


A hard-core group of liberal House Democrats is questioning the constitutionality of U.S. missile strikes against Libya, with one lawmaker raising the prospect of impeachment during a Democratic Caucus conference call on Saturday.

Reps. Jerrold Nadler (N.Y.), Donna Edwards (Md.), Mike Capuano (Mass.), Dennis Kucinich (Ohio), Maxine Waters (Calif.), Rob Andrews (N.J.), Sheila Jackson Lee (Texas), Barbara Lee (Calif.) and Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D.C.) “all strongly raised objections to the constitutionality of the president’s actions” during that call, said two Democratic lawmakers who took part.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51595.html#ixzz1HTjscOvb

[slipslidingaway]

44. Thank you, who are these two Dems who originally went to the press...

if they had not released what was said during the call would Kucinich have gone to the press.

:shrug:

[Luminous Animal]

49. Unfortunately, no matter how many times you post that (like I've done several times), it won't make

a difference.

We are led my the nose by the rightwing over and over again in order to shit on the most progressive amongst us.

[ReggieVeggie]

53. Well, I call it opportunistic outrage

There are some who would much rather talk about Kucinich's thoughts than Obama's actions.

[Luminous Animal]

54. There's that, too!

[white_wolf]

46. I'm glad Dennis said what he did.

If more people stood up for their principles we would be a lot better off.

[fascisthunter]

52. A Man with Principles.... Bravo Dennis!

Obama is Obama's own problem, Dennis is just being honest. Too bad integrity is just a political meme.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Godhumor]

62. Utter crap. n/t