More Than 200 Doctors Contemplate Moving to Vermont if it Adopts Single-Payer Health System

[kpete]

More Than 200 Doctors Contemplate Moving to Vermont if it Adopts Single-Payer Health System
‘Doctors want to practice medicine, not push paper,’ says Dr. Peggy Carey

BURLINGTON, VT - March 22 - A local affiliate of a national physicians’ group says it has collected the names of more than 200 doctors from 39 states and the District of Columbia who say they would seriously consider moving to Vermont if it were to adopt a publicly financed, single-payer health care system.

Many of the doctors are primary care physicians, who are in great demand in the state.

While most of these physicians reside in nearby states, doctors from as far away as California, Oregon and Washington state – and even Hawaii – would contemplate moving to the Green Mountain State if it adopted a single-payer, improved-Medicare-for-all system, said Dr. Peggy Carey, interim chairperson of the Vermont chapter of Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP).

Another 54 doctors-in-training, medical students, from around the country have said they’d also consider such a move, Carey said. She pointed to a regional medical student rally set for this Saturday afternoon, March 26, at the Vermont Statehouse in Montpelier as further evidence of health-professional support for a single-payer system. Sen. Bernie Sanders and Gov. Peter Shumlin are among the speakers, she said.
..............................

the rest:
http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2011/03/22-21

[progressoid]

1. As a patient, I'd consider moving there too.

[LynneSin]

5. Seriously I'd consider retiring there

I think what Vermont is doing is wonderful

[glinda]

39. Definitely more cowbell.

[karynnj]

68. My husband and I will retire to Vermont within a couple of years

We vacationed in Vermont each summer for about 21 years and in the last several have looked at all the condos in the Burlington area - so we know exactly where we want to be.

We have always loved VT - and think our now graduate school daughter got it right when she wrote in a state report in 5th grade, that VT seems like a different country. (Each kid had to pick a state to write a (non NJ) state to write a report on.)

[closeupready]

71. I would, too.

nt

[geardaddy]

14. Me too.

[glinda]

21. That is where I want to move to with my husband but will have to wait until

sick elderly parents pass. We just talked about it again last night.
I have been thinking about it for four years now.
We will take his retirement money with and I work a little out of home so will give my taxes to a better place.

[geardaddy]

28. My g/f and have been talking about moving there

for a while, too. We visited in the summer and really enjoyed it. I havent' been there in the winter, but it can't be worse than here in MN.

[cali]

29. Nope. No worse then MN. More snow, but that's about it.

It's a great place to live.

[glinda]

40. We MN. would fit in quite lovely, doncha think geardaddy?

[geardaddy]

79. Yes, ma'am!

[geardaddy]

77. I would think it's a bit warmer

We regularly get minus zero here during the winter.

[cali]

85. oh, we get that too on a very regular basis

and minus 20 isn't at all rare here in the Northeast Kingdom. Minus 30? Yep- though not as often as we got those temps 25 years ago.

[geardaddy]

87. Well, keep a place for us there!

We're coming!

[cali]

88. absolutely. you'll love it. it's a great place to live

and despite the myth of the taciturn Yankee, you'll find people really welcoming.

[glinda]

127. Maybe we should split a piece of property.

[geardaddy]

150. That sounds good.

Housing co-op?

[handmade34]

55. still about 5 foot drifts at my house

but I have the best water I have ever tasted!!

[geardaddy]

78. Yeah, you guys probably get more snow than we do.

I'm just tired of the consistent subzero cold.

[handmade34]

81. small price to pay

makes one appreciate a warm cozy woodstove, hot chocolate and fuzzy socks when coming in from the cold...

[glinda]

129. No complaints from me. I LOVE SNOW. Wish it was all year round actually.

[Auntie Bush]

114. Me too! The one out front was over 7 feet...but I love snow!

The more the merrier! I much prefer snow to rain.

[glinda]

130. and to tornados

[Auntie Bush]

143. We don't have tornadoes or hurricanes. Knock on wood!

[glinda]

128. I have heard! lol! told my husband and we looked up your house on a map. All he wants

is work space. I need a room for my work.

[comtec]

58. we have state care, its called Minnesota health isnt it?

Im filling out the paperwork, and turning it in today.
i guess the problem is "few" people know about it.
the cost is based on income.
in the bay area in ca, i had county care and its very good.
yes you wait for appointments with your doctor...
but there's no restriction on what your doctor deems necessary

[cali]

61. not at all the same. VT has several state care programs

and it ain't single payer.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

73. The income restrictions for Minnesota Care are very low--it's basically Medicaid

But if Gov. Dayton can pull off a miracle (or have a DFL legislature next time around), then there's a chance that Minnesota's single-payer movement will be successful, too.

[geardaddy]

76. Minnesota Care?

Yeah, you have to make under a certain amount, I believe. I make too much to qualify.

[glinda]

131. Isn't that for well below poverty level? I will look it up.

[jwirr]

92. Hey, MN friend - stick around and help us get rid of the t-baggers

and set up our own single payer program!!!!!

[geardaddy]

103. You're right. I should.

[Oak2004]

138. Having lived in both states, I'd say MN winters are slightly worse

Not a lot worse, but a little.

States with winter know what to do with it. If you ever want to see pathetic, try one of the borderline winter states, one that's just warm enough the gov't does not invest in snowplows. the state shuts down upon sight of a snowflake, and what's worse, they really do have to come to a halt, because no one has the means to deal with it.

[peace frog]

47. Same here

Vermont is a beautiful state. For single payer healthcare, I could even learn to tolerate the winters. :)

[valerief]

52. Me, too. nt

[rfranklin]

66. Vermont is going to get very crowded...

Real estate values are going to go through the roof.

[peace frog]

109. Better rent that affordable house or apartment

within the next year or two. The target date for single payer to begin is 2014, not so very far away.

[CrispyQ]

110. How many businesses will move there as well?

I'm thrilled to read this thread! :applause:

[SPedigrees]

2. Oh I hope that we do adopt single payer health care! nt

[Coyote_Bandit]

3. I'm not a doctor and

I despise winter. But it's been about 15 years since I've seen a doctor. I'd move to Vermont and happily pay Vermont taxes in order to have healthcare. I'd even endure the weather.

[msongs]

13. w/global warming full on there will coco palms there soon :-) nt

[david_vincent]

80. There has already been talk among scientists

about the sugaring going north over time, due to climate change. The maples won't be able to survive a much warmer climate, which means that in the future, all the best maple syrup will come from Quebec. That will be a blow to the economies of VT, Maine, New York, Michigan, and Wisconsin.

on edit: and NH !! Great maple syrup comes from the Granite State, too.

[geardaddy]

105. You forgot MN, too.

The First Nations here will lose one of their traditional food sources.

[glinda]

133. They are going to loose that with the mining. Their riceing will be gone.

[geardaddy]

147. Then all of our "Wild" rice will come from CA.

from factory farms. Pfffft.

[glinda]

148. Destroy the Rice on/near reservations and you destroy the culture and the Tribe.

[geardaddy]

149. Yep.

It's more than a food source. It's a cultural phenomenon.

[glinda]

152. It is tied to their language. Their life. Their beliefs. Repubs in MN. are on assault to them.

[glinda]

132. Vt has the best cheese. I always buy it. Love Vt. Teddy Bears and love the pancake mixes. I buy

a lot from VT. including my pj's from the Vt. Country Store.

[ProudDad]

100. Coco palms won't grow in granite

The northern soils are not rich enough to grow most crops, seriously...

So this is just another global warming denier fantasy...

[aquart]

4. Me, too. Lovely state. Sane voters.

I don't suppose they'd consider a wall at the New Hampshire border?

[Mopar151]

43. The Connecticut River does pretty well....... n/t

[handmade34]

56. not all sane voters

just enough to get some really good people in...

Vermont has its share of crazies and uninformed...

[cali]

82. not too many.

even here in the Kingdom, most folks vote dem.

[AtomicKitten]

6. Bernie Sanders was THRILLED by Pres Obama making this possible.

I can imagine blue states ending up with single-payer and the red states can revert to voodoo for their healthcare.

[Marr]

22. lol... Obama made this possible?

Well, I suppose he did... in the same way that GW Bush increased ACLU donations (i.e., indirectly and unintentionally). He left a backdoor out of his scam bill. Hooray, what an incredible man.

Some states might try to do the healthcare job with integrity, since Obama made his own healthcare bill into a sop to the insurance industry. It's a little bizarre to give Obama credit for Vermont's effort here, however.

[AtomicKitten]

24. Yes, he did.

Bernie Sanders: President Endorses State Waiver Proposal
http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=44a664de-8e92-43f4-a871-d26e0b5a252d

Sen. Bernie Sanders: 'Vermont stands a chance to be the first state in the nation to pass single-payer'
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/11/sen_bernie_sanders_vermont_sta.html

Obama backs waivers needed for Vt.’s single-payer system
http://vtdigger.org/2011/03/01/obama-backs-waivers-needed-for-vt-%E2%80%99s-single-payer-system/

Obama supports speeding up health-care reform in Vermont
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011103010301

[Marr]

26. That's what I thought you were referring to. Don't you think it's a bit odd

to greet news of a possible single payer system in Vermont with, "yay for Obama" when his contribution essentially amounted to building a backdoor OUT of his own plan?

[AtomicKitten]

27. My post is more accurately characterized as Bernie Sanders saying "Yeah!!"

[karynnj]

70. It is more than that

Even as passed a state could opt out in 2017 AND they would be able to use the subsidies that the plan included as part of the funding for their system. It is a big deal, though I don't know Obama's role in putting it in or being in favor of it.

[AtomicKitten]

83. .

Obama administration pushes waivers to let states design health insurance plans:
http://www.nola.com/health/index.ssf/2011/03/obama_administration_pushes_wa.html

[karynnj]

90. Thanks

I didn't have the backup needed on Obama's part, but I do think that having done that - and having passed the entire structure of the bill - was a BIG deal.

[Motown_Johnny]

25. it would not have happened without the affordable care act passing

and that would not have happened if President Obama had not made health care reform a top priority

[slipslidingaway]

34. +1 n/t

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CTyankee]

7. I hope and pray that CT can do the same! CTpeople would welcome it.

And we have slightly better weather. But I do love VT. So beautiful...

[Autumn Colors]

98. I hope so, too, but we are home to a lot of insurance companies

I have to wonder if it would spread here very soon because of that....

[CTyankee]

106. Exactly what I was thinking, but we do have some good progressives in our state lege.

And a progressive governor. That gives me a glimmer of hope...

[Autumn Colors]

121. Have you seen this?

It's a start, non-profit at least. Maybe this can be built on...

http://www.chnct.org/Members/CharterOak.aspx

[bobbolink]

8. Wonderful news! I needed this smile today!

State by state...... its the Domino Effect! :)

[BattyDem]

9. How is this possible?

Hasn't the GOP always claimed that a Single-Payer Health System would cause a doctor shortage? Primary care physicians were going to become specialists to make more money, while many other doctors would leave the country or quit medicine altogether ... right?? :eyes:

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. Because, of course, the only reason to go into medicine

is that's where the big bucks are.

[BattyDem]

31. I guess it never occurred to them that some people ...

enter medicine because they actually want to help sick people.

I really hope Vermont does this. It will be fun watching all the right-wing, GOP arguments and scare tactics get blown out of the water ... one by one. :evilgrin: (My personal favorite was always, "Doctors will leave the country". Huh? Every other industrialized nation already has some sort of universal system, so where the hell were they going to go??)

[Lifelong Protester]

10. Move over, I'm interested in moving there TOO!

[bobbolink]

19. I think the whole object is for each of us to move our OWN states in this direction.

You know... the true Domino Effect! :hi:

:hug:

[glinda]

41. It would be great if we could get the upper tier around the lakes to do it. Sort of like a "group".

[bobbolink]

94. I agree, that would be great. Are there chapters of PNHP there?

I would think that could be organized.

I did a lot of volunteer work for Health Care For All Colorado, a branch of PNHP, and there was a stong plan for Colorado. I'm not going to be surprised if it is reinvigorated and pushes again for this.

It takes work... are you up for it?

[glinda]

123. I don't know if there are Chapters. I need to check. The States

around the Lakes have (illegally?) elected Repubs running everything and running rabid. But the people in these areas are pissed and want change. I can feel it.
Am I up for it? Will have to see what I find out first.

[peace frog]

48. Great idea, but

some of us will find it a tough row to hoe. Here in Florida, Rick Scott and the FL-GOP will be certain to kill any such intitiative, and they will be with us for at least the next 8 years.

[bobbolink]

95. Every step of growth forward is a tough row to hoe.

Try fighting for Housing For All! Talk about TOUGH!

It time we all start Walking Like An Egyptian. :hi:

[glinda]

124. The good people of Florida must make it difficult for them to stay in office. Fight!

[peace frog]

137. Florida isn't Wisconsin, sad to say

Lefties are vastly outnumbered by teabaggers in this state, and our elected officials reflect this disparity. Easy to say 'fight' but quite another to do.

[handmade34]

57. you are very wise

[Autumn Colors]

99. I think a mass exodus to VT might actually help in a small way

Don't you think? Showing what the people want by taking themselves and their talents where the single payer is?

Voting with our feet, so to speak.

[peace frog]

108. There's a downside to that

A mass exodus would strain Vermont's resources, perhaps perilously so, and that does give me pause.

[glinda]

125. I hope to. I really do.

[marions ghost]

11. great news

K & R

And those are the type of doctors you'd want to go to!

[RainDog]

12. small businesses should relocate there too

ones that are not dependent upon geography for their biz.

b/c so many of them cannot afford health care themselves, much less employees.

[Auntie Bush]

15. I could NEVER move to snowy VT!!!!!!!

I already live here! LOL

[glinda]

23. I am prepared. We just had a foot (blizzard) last night in MN.

[Auntie Bush]

30. Welcome, we would be happy to see you. nt

[glinda]

42. And I, you!

[booley]

16. Hell, I'd consider moving there

IF they add a state owned bank like North Dakota to avoid the financial crap the rest of the country got it self into, that would be even better.

[Mopar151]

45. Well' kinda....

I know the guy that used to be their chief Bank Examiner. According to him, the reason that VT had few bank failures during the S&L mess has to do with their "Act 250" enviromental impact permitting system. Basically, commercial properties cannot be built on spec. - they must serve a need to satisfy Act 250.

[Autumn Colors]

17. This medical transcriptionist would move there in a heartbeat! (nt)

[Chef Eric]

50. Pardon me for asking...

How did you get into medical transcription? Did you study it in school? Do you work for a hospital? For the pharmaceutical industry?

I've been working as a technical writer for eight years, but I've been very curious about medical writing.

I'm sorry to throw so many questions at you!

[Autumn Colors]

97. Well, it's a profession that's becoming obsolete

I took a class in medical terminology at a community college and was lucky enough to find two part-time jobs with small companies that did other types of transcription and office support, too. After that, I got a job working at home for a regional med. transcription service. When the owner sold the company to a national company and my small team and I (I was a "team lead") were forced to take a big pay cut, I left and started my own business.

At its peak, I had several transcriptionists working for/with me (all of us from our homes), but since the government is requiring hospitals and med. practices to get and use electronic medical record systems (and is throwing a lot of grant $$ at them to do so), my profession is going the way of the dinosaur. Since May of last year, I saw income from my largest of 3 clients go down by about 80%. Another will be switching to an EMR over this next year, so the downward spiral isn't over. What little transcription work is out there seems to be going to India, too.

As it is, my house is being foreclosed on ....

I'm not sure what a career in medical writing would entail since that has little to do with what I do for a living. I listen to and transcribe patient reports for small practices (all of them happen to be gastroenterology practices). I've never worked in a hospital or for the pharmaceutical industry.

My prior experience was as an administrative assistant in the music industry. I worked for artist managers, one of whom was also an entertainment attorney, so I had transcription experience involving legal work before taking med. terminology classes.

I would say to take a medical terminology class at the local community college. That would be a start.

May you have better luck in your field than I've had in recent years.

[Chef Eric]

118. Thanks for detailed reply.

I'm so sorry to hear about what has happened to your business.

I guess I just assumed that medical transcription and medical writing were closely related. That was a bad assumption on my part.

Your suggestion about taking a class in medical terminology at a community college sounds like a good idea, and I appreciate it.

[Kennah]

18. I smell Woodstock II, with great skiing!

[flamingdem]

38. Too true, Vermont still has some of that hippie vibe

I love it, my home.

[highplainsdem]

32. K&R

[slipslidingaway]

33. Doctors agree: We need single-payer health care - 2008

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/5732041.html

"...Until now, doctors who believed in a system of guaranteed single-payer health care were in the minority. However, in a new study from Indiana University published in The Annals of Internal Medicine, 59 percent of the physicians support national health insurance.

This is a 10 percentage point increase from the same survey done 5 years ago. In fact, there are increases in support among doctors in every medical specialty. We expect that physician support for single-payer national health insurance will continue to grow. Recently the American College of Physicians endorsed a single-payer system.

Our group, the Physicians for a National Health Program, applauds the new findings. We are thrilled that the majority of our colleagues believe, as we do, that the solution to the health care crisis is a single-payer system..."

[RB TexLa]

35. Hopefully if they do it, it won't be as easy for the doctors to steal from as Medicare and Medicaid

is.

And they set strict punishments for attempted theft. Overbill and try to steal from the taxpayers, go to prison for 20 years.

[revolutionnow45]

36. I love Peter Shumlin!!!

He is my new hero :applause: hard to find these days...

[slipslidingaway]

37. Vermont's single payer proposal - listen to William Hsiao

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2011/march/vermonts-single-payer-proposal-listen-to-william-hsiao

"The United States faces two major problems in the health care arena: the swelling ranks of the uninsured and soaring costs. The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA) makes great strides in addressing the former problem but offers only modest pilot efforts to address the latter. Experience in countries such as Taiwan and Canada shows that single-payer health care systems can achieve universal coverage and control inflation of health care costs. Because of strong political opposition, however, the U.S. Congress never seriously considered a single-payer approach during the recent reform debate. Now Vermont, wishing to solve the intertwined problems of costs and access through systemic reform, is turning in that direction.

Perhaps we are at the dawn of systemic reform in U.S. health care. The Vermont single-payer plan will never be as efficient as Taiwan’s or Canada’s because it must work within the bounds of federal laws and programs and the realities of porous state borders. Nevertheless, it can produce substantial savings to fully fund universal coverage, reduce health care costs for most businesses and households over time, and reform a fragmented delivery system. Of course, someone will bear the burden — mostly the private insurance industry and high-wage businesses that don’t currently offer insurance. But if Vermont can navigate its political waters and successfully implement this plan, it will provide a model for other states and the country as a whole.

Comment:

By Don McCanne, MD

Many in the single payer community are looking at this as a great opportunity to do what Saskatchewan did - establish the first state (provincial) single payer system to serve as a model for the rest of the nation. This perception is right on - almost, but...

Saskatchewan began with a tabula rasa. They were not hindered by a quagmire of federal programs, laws and regulations. Vermont and all of the other states attempting to establish a single payer system must obtain waivers allowing them to be exempt from these federal constraints. The problem with that is that waivers do not exist for most programs and regulations, except for the subsidies in the insurance exchanges, and for Medicaid, but even these "1115" Medicaid waivers have very significant limitations on the modifications that can be made..."

[Tripod]

44. k&r

[SoCalDem]

46. The spin about doctors hating "nationalized care" is just that.. a MYTH.

Most doctors would LOVE the idea of being paid a nice wage, and just doing medicine...without the hassle of all the office staff needed to do all the paperwork. Most doctors these days have to be part of a group anyway, since going it alone is often too pricey for even doctors.

Our son just got his new increase from his health care insurer.. up again of course.. It's now $200 every 2 weeks from his check for just him and his wife.. they are both 32..no kids. The company plan would cover him alone for $16.00 a pay period, but the "family" plan is $200. His wife's employer does not offer coverage, so they are stuck.. And it's not even a good plan. They also did not find out until AFTER they signed up during open enrollment that the medical group they have always gone to is no longer "on the list", so they have to pay more AND find new doctors.. He had back surgery a while back and is not interested in having a new doctor, so they will pay the $400 a month, and wait until the next enrollment period to see if they can find a plan that offers the medical group he has always gone to.

[fasttense]

49. I disagree.

My sister and brother-in-law are both doctors and they despise the whole idea of single-payer. Their friends (the handful of doctors I've met) also hate the whole notion of single payer. I think they believe it will destroy their income but of course they don't say that. They say it's socialism, it will wipe out the practice of medicine. It would make doctors welfare recipients, it's communism in disguise. It would be unfair.

You must know different doctors.

[stillwaiting]

51. How could they say it would be "unfair"?

I'm truly curious to hear their rationale for making such a statement.

Unfair to whom? Unfair for doctors, patients, insurance companies, Wall Street?

The number of people who die prematurely in this country due to inability to access health care resources should make them consider their Hippocratic Oath a little bit more when forming their opinions on this matter.

[frylock]

96. unfair to BMW dealers

[jtown1123]

72. That could just be propaganda from the AMA

[Lydia Leftcoast]

91. Now my brother, also a doctor, would LOVE to be freed from hassles with

the insurance companies. He spends hours on the phone each week arguing with the insurance companies.

He listened with envy to a Swedish doctor talking about how he was able to spend his whole day treating patients instead of filling out forms and arguing with the insurance companies.

[Enthusiast]

53. K&R, Right on! nt

[madmax]

54. K & R

[lz1122]

59. I repiled in another post about this topic...

I haven't had time to read the bill but does anyone know if you are eligible to receive benefits as soon as you establish residency or is their a waiting period for new residents of Vermont?

[Harriety]

60. I've been thinking of doing the same thing

If Vermont does this and they get more doctors and better health care for all. People are going to start to migrate there in droves. More states are then going to have to do the same thing. We can't all live in Vermont for goodness sake.

[Scuba]

62. But, but, but the Republicans told me....

...that governement-run healthcare was driving doctors out of their practices, and discouraging bright young people from entering medical school.

Could it be that the Republicans were lying?

[masmdu]

64. I HATE cold weather...But, I'd move there in a heart beat...I'd even become a productive member of

society.

Honestly, feeling like I'm contstantly fighting to keep from being screwed doesn't do much for my desire to do my best.

[AlbertCat]

65. Hell... I'd move to VT, if it wasn't buried in snow half the year.

A beautiful and mostly civilized state.

[Swampguana]

67. Only the ignorant

would be against a single payer system.

[handmade34]

75. I agree

keep well so you don't have to rush up to Oh! Canada!

[Swampguana]

86. I'll try to stay well

but hopefully soon enough I won't need to because there will be a single payer system here in VT!!!!

[avaistheone1]

69. Bravo!

[david_vincent]

74. ALSO ON SATURDAY, ALSO IN MONTPELIER

From 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. at City Hall, there'll be a demonstration against Monsanto.

For those who don't know, the VT State House is about three blocks away from Montpelier City Hall.

Two great events!! Go directly from one to the other !!!

And the weather is supposed to be clear and bright.

[glinda]

134. Oh my heart! I am in love.

[Hestia]

84. There are two fantastic companies from VT that I order from - Gardener's Supply & King Arthur Flour

Gardener's Supply is 100% employee owned. Shipping ain't cheap but I support their business model.

[glinda]

135. Yes! They are great.

[iandhr]

89. Vermont again leads the nation

[Dokkie]

93. the problem with adopting puplic option in just 1 state

is that along with the 200 doctors, thousands of sick and uninsured people will be come along on the trip. This would inevitably cause the system to collapse.

[ProudDad]

101. Then, by all means

we must preserve the present expensive, broken for-profit sick care system...!!!

You forget, most people are not as mobile as doctors...

[Dokkie]

111. lol

ever wonder why so many people around the world are coming to America? desperate people (especially the ones in desperate need of life saving treatment) will be flocking to Vermont if they and they alone pass the public option and my guess is a good number of affluent residents will be moving out. This is why we need a federal public option instead of just state by state crap

I dont exactly know why we are not seeing such move in Massachusetts but if its anything like a true public option (ala medicare), it would be over whelmed by out of state residents looking for a cheap insurance.

[Oak2004]

140. Affluent people will be leaving? Not a chance.

People live here for the quality of life, affluent people included. Single payer will, if anything, enhance our quality of life.

It's not like our rich haven't noticed Vermont's propensity to elect socialists, or for that matter that VT has its very own homegrown socialist party whose presence forces the entire political debate leftward.

[Dokkie]

144. quality of life

Now it may be increasing for the majority of the people, but for the affluent, it will probably be going down or staying steady. Now if am correct about the flood of poor and desperate flood the states, theres no way you can tell me that the crime rates will not increase (even by a small %). And that my friend is the reason why the rich will flee.

Its just the way it is

[Dappleganger]

151. Obviously you don't know Vermont...

among other things.

[cali]

146. huh? why would you think affluent residents would move? they won't.

and no, Vermont is unlikely to be overwhelmed with people moving here. It's too cold and too rural.

[james0tucson]

102. yawn

I'd like to move to Vermont too, and I wouldn't even need the physician's level income. A LOT of people would like to move to Vermont.

[WatsonT]

104. Easy enough to say

the follow up will likely be less enthusiastic.

Just like the people who swore they'd move to Canada if Bush had a second term.

Some did it. But far fewer than had originally said they would.

[peace frog]

115. An American moving to another US state is hugely different from

and far more easily accomplished than an American expatriating to another country. Plenty of Americans will move to Vermont for single payer, including this DU member. Count on it.

[WatsonT]

116. Ok, let me know when your address changes

I wasn't saying no one would do this. Merely fewer than claim they will.

[peace frog]

119. Nah, but thanks for asking

and anyone who MUST move there for healthcare purposes, will find a way.

[SPedigrees]

122. I suspect we've had an influx of gay couples

moving here following passage of the nation's first civil union law, and more recently same sex marriage. Single payer health care will probably result in another such population boom. Always happy to welcome more liberals to our Green Mountains.

[peace frog]

136. Thanks, SPedigrees

Vermont is a beautiful state, I'm glad to know the people are welcoming. :)

[DeSwiss]

107. Excellent! K&R n/t

[JDPriestly]

112. I would like to see this in California too.

Here is information on the California proposal

http://healthcareforall.org/learn-more/sb-810/sb-810-summary-of-bill

[swilton]

113. Retired in NH

a stone's throw away from Vermont! It's worth it up here, even if you're not a doctor!

[masmdu]

117. Hawaii ? How about Hawaii...Does anybody know if they have similar plan in the works? I don't like..

SNOW

[glinda]

126. Can you afford to live there? Expensive.

[Shagbark Hickory]

120. It raises the same question I asked a couple months ago. What happens when all the patients move too

[old mark]

139. So how cold can it get in Vermont?...nt

[tcaudilllg]

141. Yikes that seems like a serious situation.

[adigal]

142. Maybe I won't have to move to Nova Scotia

Just to my favorite city ever, Burlington!!

[CanonRay]

145. I sure wish the weather was better, or I'd be in

Why do all the redneck states have the warm weather?

[bobthedrummer]

153. ^