Generational wars

[MadHound]

Looking back over our post WWII history, it simply amazes me. The US has been involved in over 140 military conflicts, skirmishes, actions, ranging from Laos to Nicuragua, El Salvador to Somalia.

In addition to these rather small conflicts, the US tends to get involved in conflicts that last for a generation or more. Our military involvement in Vietnam lasted for thirty years, from 1945 to 1975. Our military involvement in Iraq has lasted from 1991 until present, and it is well on its way to spanning a generation. The Afghan war has lasted for over a decade, and is also well on its way to becoming a generational war.

Think about that, war for an entire generation. A child of a soldier fighting in one of these conflicts can grow up to fight in the same conflict.

How do such conflicts come about? It is very simple. The US has no military objective in these conflicts, no objective other than running up the body count and using up the war material. With no firm military objective, there can be no firm, objective military victory. All that can happen is that we simply continue to waste soldiers and treasure, enriching the wealthy elite, the MIC. But the rest of us lose.

Our society is suffering from sixty five years of generational war. Our people are becoming ever poorer, our infrastructure is crumbling, our status in the world is suffering, badly.

It is time to put a halt to these generational wars. It is time to get out of Iraq, fully and completely. It is time to leave Afghanistan, now, immediately. And we simply don't need to get engaged in other conflict in Libya, one that very well could turn into another generational war.

It is time to end the madness, bring the troops home, and take care of our own people who are in need. Otherwise, we will all lose, and our country will go the way of Rome.

[polly7]

1. + 10000 K & R

[HughBeaumont]

2. I'd have to look this up, and it was said on here . . .

. . . but since Bunker Hill (1775), America has spent exactly ONE YEAR out of a military conflict of some kind. I wonder if that's true. I mean, I wouldn't DOUBT that it is, and if it is, it's indeed a sad commentary on where this nation's priorities fall.

Talking about the past 60 years, doesn't it kind of all go back to your findings on Reinhard Gehlen and his "intelligence" that was part and parcel why the military got to justify it's continual fights and fundings? All buildup and actions since WWII have really been based on trumped-up flimsy connections to paranoia to outright falsehoods. Most other industrialized nations have their problems, but at least they chose to better society for their people.

America chose to make life better for the MIC and the wealthy only.

[MadHound]

4. That wouldn't surprise me about Bunker Hill,

Between our foreign "adventures" and our war on the Native Americans, that sounds about right.

It actually goes back further than Gehlen(but hey, thanks for paying attention, it's nice to know that someone is). After WWI, the MIC realized that war was good for business, but Wilson essentially disbanded the standing military to a large extent, and took away the opportunity for the "merchants of death" to continue to make obscene profits. There were even Congressional hearings on how these obscene profits were made, so the MIC was pretty much shut down. However they knew that another major conflict was coming, and continued to grease the right palms, make the right contacts, and had everything in place for the end of WWII. Thus, they were able to prevent the near complete demobilization of the military that they suffered after WWI. They were able to seed men and material in certain "hotspots" in order to stir up more conflicts, and thus keep those obscene profits rolling in.

Gehlen was a large part of this, stirring up irrational fears about Communism with false information and overhyped analysis. But the larger part of that picture is the simple fact that we divided the world into a bipartisan camp, Communist or non-Communist. We turned on a WWII ally, one that had done much of the heavy lifting in that war, and simply contrived to make a bipolar world, a move that benefited the MIC, but was deadly to everybody else, including our own civilian population. After Communism fell, we turned first to the War on Drugs, then Terrorism in order to continue the MIC gravy train. Sadly, as more and more people begin to question this arrangement, to speak out, and to act in order to change it, I think that we will see our own military turned against its people. I hope not, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[lunatica]

3. Yeah, but war creates jobs in the US

Who do you think makes those weapons? It's so bad that if we stopped doing it this country would collapse economically.

[MadHound]

5. That's horseshit, propagated by those who benefit from war

Other countries, as your chart notes, spend far less than us on their military, yet their economies don't collapse. That is money that could be used to invest in top notch infrastructure, world class schools, and the well being of our populace.

The only ones who would suffer from a downturn in military spending are the wealthy, elite members of the MIC. The workers who make the munitions could be trained to work elsewhere, like creating a green energy grid.

Stop buying the lies.

[lunatica]

12. The workers would join the unemployed

The bullshit is that anyone thinks retraining is the answer. Retraining for what? Green jobs that are non-existent? U

[MadHound]

13. Wow, I guess all that retooling, retraining, re-education after WWII,

And especially WWI simply didn't happen, since in your eyes it simply isn't possible:eyes:

[notesdev]

6. Amen

no blood for politics!

[MadHound]

7. No blood for profits as well n/t

[Javaman]

8. I think about the ending to Heinlein's book "Starship Troopers"...

(not the truly epically crappy movie).

Where the Protagonist, returning from the front, bumps into his father at a rear base. His father, much older than he, was going to the front to fight.

Once upon a time, taking up the family business was a way of life. Now war is becoming many a family (let alone the nations), way of life.

"yup, I'm in charge of my dad's old artillery unit!"

We are a sad nation.

[The2ndWheel]

9. How many times has it happened voluntarily?

"How do such conflicts come about? It is very simple. The US has no military objective in these conflicts, no objective other than running up the body count and using up the war material. With no firm military objective, there can be no firm, objective military victory. All that can happen is that we simply continue to waste soldiers and treasure, enriching the wealthy elite, the MIC. But the rest of us lose."

I think this can find a place in the category of the human world not fitting together correctly. We have global institutions like the UN, but for the most part, only one member of it pays for the enforcement of its rules. In turn, that allows that one member state to effectively have carte blanche when it comes to international conflicts. There isn't a governing body that can tell the US Government no. If the US Government attacks another nation in some fashion, the US won't be bombed in retaliation, or economically sanctioned, the leaders won't be put on trial, or anything else.

[warren pease]

10. Don't forget the bogus "war on terror..."

It's a multi-generational conflict and a war profiteer's wet dream. It's the Cold War, only a hundred times better. And the greatest thing of all: It can literally never end. I mean, how could you tell?

No uniforms, no lands to conquer, no heads of state to assassinate, no generals to negotiate with. Not even an organization to force a peace treaty down the throats of their most militant warriors. Yup... War profiteering as far as the eye can see.

A hundred years down the road and some loon blows up a hot dog kiosk. Turns out he's a pissed off vegan, but so what... He's still a terrorist by definition and, therefore, the War on Terror is still going strong.

Crank out a few more subs and aircraft carriers, Admiral. There's work to be done.

wp


Oh... :sarcasm: for the ironically challenged.

[Catherina]

11. You're wrong Madhound. Each and every one of those was a humanitarian intervention

Rec'd