Libyan rebels appear to take leaf from Kadafi's playbook (Terror for Libyan blacks and immigrants)

[Catherina]

Libyan rebels appear to take leaf from Kadafi's playbook
Opposition officials in Benghazi, whose wide sweeps to detain alleged Kadafi supporters have drawn criticism, take journalists on a tightly controlled tour of detention centers. Many detainees say they're immigrant workers and deny fighting for Kadafi.


Detainees of the rebel government in Benghazi are housed at a former Kadafi regime security complex. (Luis Sinco, Los Angeles Times / March 23, 2011)

By David Zucchino, Los Angeles Times
March 24, 2011

Reporting from Benghazi, Libya— ...

For a month, gangs of young gunmen have roamed the city, rousting Libyan blacks and immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa from their homes and holding them for interrogation as suspected mercenaries or government spies.

...

Any suspected Kadafi loyalist or spy who does not surrender, Ghoga warned, will face revolutionary "justice."

...

But when a rowdy mass of photographers and reporters rushed the prisoners and began snapping photos and shouting questions, the carefully staged event collapsed in chaos. Soon opposition officials were hauling out prisoners for interviews and photos, all the while shouting down the detainees when they proclaimed their innocence.

One young man from Ghana bolted from the prisoners queue. He shouted in English at an American reporter: "I'm not a soldier! I work for a construction company in Benghazi! They took me from my house … "

...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-libya-prisoners-20110324,0,5389027,full.story

...

Other African workers told Human Rights Watch that Libyan civilians had attacked them over the past week, and most said that they had lost almost all of their possessions in the violence. Many also claimed that their employers had not paid their salaries for the past month, leaving them destitute.
Roland Omokpia, a 30-year-old electrician from Nigeria, told Human Rights Watch that he had come to Libya in 2006 and opened a shop to do electrical work, but had been forced to flee without his possessions.

"I can't go back to my shop, because they are looking to kill blacks," he said. "The youth came to our area and threatened me, saying, ‘There is the black, the black who Gaddafi hired,' so I had to run away."

Festos, a Haitian electrician who did not wish to give his family name, told Human Rights Watch that he had come to Libya in 2007 to work at a Turkish construction company. On February 25, he said, a group of roughly 1,000 Libyan civilians came to the company armed with machetes and guns and attacked the workers.
"They broke everything and stole everything," Festos told Human Rights Watch.

...

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/03/02/libya-stranded-foreign-workers-need-urgent-evacuation

It's not a good sign when the most oppressed group in the country, which makes up 1/3 of the population, is living and fleeing in terror.

[sasha031]

1. I saw a documentary awhile back, way before any of this happened

Gadaffi imported labor workers meant for menial jobs, from Africa.

They of course were paid very poorly, lived in deplorable conditions and were not accepted in society.
We could expect this, anyone of color is thought to be a mercenary.
so sad...

[Distant Observer]

4. Imported "FROM AFRICA" ??? Libya IS in Africa, 2009 Head of African Union.

Gaddafi not only HAS NOT had a reputation for importing "blacks" for menial labor but is
noted for having many black-complexion Libyans in high positions in his government, and having
pushed laws to promote "open borders" and protection for immigrant labor -- mandating same
workplace and social welfare protection.

That is exactly why many travel to Libya to work from all over Northern Africa.

Libya'a native tribes are NOT of Arabic or European descent (as are many Libyan citizens) but are Berber Temehu of the Sahara and tend to be of dark complexions bordering on black in the South.

Unfortunately, the Benghazi anti-Gaddafi forces tend to be Euro-centric and view themselves are the natural elites, of the ruling group whose leader was King Idris whom Gaddafi overthrew.

[Catherina]

11. I keep forgetting about the King Idris link. Is this why they're flying the monarchy flag? BURKAS?

I came across his name while I was trying to find out what percentage of Libyans is dark-skinned but then I realized race isn't a category issue in countries that aren't dominated by Caucasians. I gave up.

This is off tangent but here are two things I came across.

Show Name:
Conversation with H.R.H. Prince Mahdi Al-Senussi
Date / Length: 8/28/2008 12:00 PM - 1 hr

Share
Description:
h:5900 s:267597
Conversation with H.R.H. Prince Mahdi Al-Senussi

H.R.H. Prince Mahdi Al-Senussi, member of the Al-Senussi Royal Family and leading financial advisor to the Middle East, is a co-founding member and manager of Washington Investment Capital and has a long and distinguished career in private and investment banking. He has structured and negotiated investments totaling over several million dollars and has been highly successful deploying investment capital yielding an above average annual rate of return.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/e3c/2008/08/28/conversation-with-hrh-prince-mahdi-al-senussi

Libya’s Islamic reform model
Iason Athanasiadis ("GlobalPost," March 23, 2010)

...

In Benghazi, Libya's second largest city after the capital Tripoli, Islamism is on the rise. The Mediterranean port was once so multi-cultural that it was dubbed by its expat residents “the poor man’s Alexandria.” Although its malls throb with imported goods, far fewer women walk its streets and those who do are heavily covered by their burqas or hijabs. This contrasts with the more liberal atmosphere for women in Tripoli.

...

http://wwrn.org/articles/32937/

WOMEN IN BURKAS? ARE PEOPLE FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Comments from 2010 about Benghazi, taken from various posts, that support the Wikileaks cables

General Advice for a female moving to Benghazi

#1 2009-12-07 13:34:05

...

about the night life, there is no night life in Benghazi as the most known activity is to talk a walk by the sea.

...

the city is very safe but for young ladies I believe that they have to go out in groups and highly recommended to be escorted by a man.

...

I had the privilege of being in benghazi in september. During my visit these are the things I noticed.
Women do not typically go into shops, the men do. Women do not go out at night the men do. Women do wear barikas ALOT. It is looked down on by the men there believe it or not and many women disagree with wearing it. Women do not smoke! Most women wear long skirts and abias and the hijab. Women and men do not mix mostly.

...

Rarely are there women out at any time. But during the day when it hot they do go out. There is a street dedicated to women so they can walk up and down there in the evening for excerise, it is considered safe and no one bothers them.

...

on the beach, but no bikinis. t shirt and leggings are preferred.

...

http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=20611

This one's called

How's it living in Benghazi - 2010-10-04

Answers

... there is no way for any kind of “small-freedom” for women. They keep an eye on that

...

Most of the women here clothes in the traditional way (with veil and long -preferably not tight- clothes) and there is a big number of those”black ghost” walking around the streets, where you can not even see theirs eyes. Unfortunately the percentage of these “black-style” women has been increasing with the time.

Even girls who walked wearing the “normal-style” before, after being married are asked to wear this “black-style”. How they can survive living in a kind of shadow of themselves anytime they go out remains a mystery for me. Even when I think about the “willingness” and “acceptance” the women have towards this measurement.

...

you are in a place similar to paradise there in Tripoli, you can believe me…

http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=48760

[Catherina]

8. There are also many Black Libyans who've lived there for millenia, especially in the South

I agree with you. It's so sad. I've been really concerned ever since one of the tweeters sent out a jpg of a so-called mercenary card and it was a work permit clearly dated 2006.

I've been looking at pre-2011 information and it seems Libya is very race-oriented, worse than Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt and Morocco which are bad enough as it is.


I'm still trying to figure out what percentage of the population is dark-skinned and subject to unfair reprisals. I read 20% somewhere but can't find that link.
So far I've found the Tebu, Harathin, Achdam and Tubu tribes of Tibesti and who've lived there for millenia. Some of the pre-2011 stories of racism, even against Libyan Blacks who are 100% Libyan, were shockingly sad but they happen all over the world too. What a world.


EDIT- it took me 30 minutes to write that. I had so many excerpts and links and then erased them all because the picture was too incomplete. I didn't see that someone already had more information about this than I did before I posted. Apolgies

[Bluerthanblue]

9. have you read this ?

This same Gaddafi was busy parading himself as an anti-imperial Pan-Africanist, while refusing to educate his people about the essence of Pan African solidarity. Gaddafi’s regime has been involved in the repression of black migrant workers in Libya. In 2000, workers from Chad, Nigeria, Niger, Cameroon, Sudan, Burkina Faso, and Ghana were targets of killings in Libya after the Gaddafi regime officials accused these migrant workers of spreading diseases, crimes, and drug trafficking. Accounts of migrant workers from these countries have revealed that Gaddafi’s deportation practices were so inhumane that deportees were packed like animals on aircrafts without seats for several hours of flight to their countries.

Progressive persons who accept Gaddafi’s claim as a Pan-Africanist and anti-imperialist should recall that it was in response to Gaddafi’s racism that the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) expressed concern over Libya’s practices of racial discrimination against dark-skinned migrants and refugees. In 2004 this committee accused the Gaddafi regime of violating Article 6 of the 1969 International Convention on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (ICERD). This accusation states that Gaddafi failed to implement proper mechanisms for safeguarding individuals from racist actions that undermine human rights. And six years after this accusation, Gaddafi went ahead to make his racist remarks about black African immigrants turning Europe ‘black.’

from:
http://revolutionaryfrontlines.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/opposing-gaddafi%E2%80%99s-massacre-and-foreign-intervention-in-libya/

The information at this site seems to be pretty evenly balanced.

[Catherina]

13. Please don't think I'm ignoring you. I'm not

I've had that sight up since you posted this and got distracted. It does initially look evenly balanced and I'm looking at it with interest, among about 40 other open windows.

Gaddafi wasn't an angel with African workers but neither have been any of the European powers. If anything they've been worse and I could link you to stories that would have you in tears about how Italy and France brutally sent them back. I think that particular excerpt you posted is warped (no slam at you) because Gaddafi put Blacks in high positions in his government and he's been Pan-Africanist and anti-imperialist to get both the Africa-haters and Imperialists really worked up.

On one hand we have anti-Imperialists like Chavez and Castro and Chomsky etc and then on the same UN hand, we have the African Union cold locked out of any input on this mess.

I think, just from a few minutes of perusing the site, that it's even handed and worthwhile so thank you.

[joshcryer]

19. Good link, shows that Gaddafi is not afraid to foment a race war to stay in power, thanks for it.

[tcaudilllg]

23. Do not try to absolve the prejudicial by blaming Gadhafi.

Whether Gadhafi is "fomenting" racial violence or not is irrelevant -- people have free will and are responsible for the emotions they project.

[joshcryer]

26. Absolutely, it is tragic, no one ever said the revolutionaries were pure and amazing.

But they shouldn't be blamed first because Gaddafi hired black African mercenaries on purpose. If anything they're playing in to Gaddafi's hands, and it's working. As black African mercenaries learn that they are being mistreated by the revolutionaries because of a deep seated profiling that is taking place, their allegiance to Gaddafi is only strengthened.

[Turborama]

27. The apologetics for Gaddafi make me want to hurl

The conspiracy theories were bad enough but an escalation in the apologetics for Gaddafi? FTS!

Personally, I am glad that Gaddafi and his brutal psychotic dictatorship is going to be finally finished in the not too distant future. I will never forget the 1st time I saw the poor guy in the wheelchair (27 seconds in): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ0KQABYXgE

http://www.libyafeb17.com/

I'm putting GD on Ignore now.

[sasha031]

36. I have been trying to find an article on Libyan culture and Gaddafi

written in the New Yorker yrs ago that I thought you might find interesting.

every google search comes up with current information which is useless when your trying to understand the historical mindset.

I am not an expert, but form what I have read, the Libyans are very nationalistic.
They identify with Arabs and not Africa. I know...Libya is in Africa.

They resented Gadaffi's involvement in African affairs, one of them monetary reasons. With infrastructure falling apart and many other issues that plagued the country, they preferred the focus be on the Libyan people than elsewhere.

To understand what is going on currently it would take some time to back track, to see what caused this to boil over.

[sasha031]

37. as for importing labor, it is true...

don't have time to find links...

but even recently with the humanitarian crisis of nationals fleeing...
Gadaffi stated this was a good thing, as it would provide jobs for the Libyan people.

didn't he import Palestinians at one time for labor, then just throw them out...

[PhillySane]

2. I've been suspicious of these rebels from day one

[PurityOfEssence]

3. Any suspected loyalist or spy who doesn't surrender will face revolutionary justice.

I guess that would be the Committee for Public Safety. So, are there any Girondins in this brouhaha, or are they all Jacobins?

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Distant Observer]

6. It is so NAIVE to expect either pro-Gaddafi or anti-Gaddafi tribes and fighters to behave like we

and the Europeans proscribe for good European social democrats.

[Catherina]

12. We have a disturbing lack of ability to see anything but through our prism n/t

[Obamanaut]

32. You mean like tossing a couple hundred missiles at strangers? nt

[Distant Observer]

35. It is so civilized when you can kill at a distance while saying "peace to the world"

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Now, a little Ethnic Cleansing for "Freedom"? K&R

[EFerrari]

10. At least no one has likened them to the Founders yet!

lol

[malaise]

20. Hehehehehhe

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

30. Lol. It may be that younger DUers don't remember the "Contra War"

and how that opposition was partially fabricated and sold to us. They almost sucked in my mother, who is always adamant in her support for democracy and human rights. :hi:

[Amonester]

21. I rec'd this but it shows Net rec. 0 (your vote +1)

Why?

[dipsydoodle]

24. I just did the same

with the same result. Must be a lot of unrecs stacked up.

I guess a lot here must actually believe what they think.

[Amonester]

28. Yeah... I found it rather *strange* at first, but....

once I saw the second link (dated March 2) that has United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the International Organization for Migration (IOM) all over... Not to mention the journalists tour in the first (which would NOT alert the UN? Come on...).

Sometimes it looks like some want to destroy the legitimacy of the UN... on DU! :(

bolton-ists? :scared:

[Starry Messenger]

14. Catherina, I'm about ready to go to sleep

I wanted to pass this on to you in case you might find it useful. I've been reading the Time magazine archives on Libya. Even though they are pro-capitalist articles, there are lots of interesting details, even for the anti-capitalist/imperialist reader:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,864742,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,866867,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,899455,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,941787,00.html

tons more at Time, just plug in "libya" into the search there.

[David__77]

15. We need as much investigation as possible.

I try to peruse Arabic-language sources certainly, to get a better grasp on the situation. From an important perspective, I do not have a position on "Gaddafi vs. opposition." I think that is for the Libyans to decide, not US citizens. But it is interesting to see the full force public relations effort in play currently. We've seen variants of it before, many times.

[sabrina 1]

16. There were reports early on of this kind of thing. I saw

interviews with black workers who had been attacked and accused of being mercenaries. They were trying to get out of Libya, but were afraid to go out in the open.

At first I thought maybe it was Qaddafi propaganda, but credible reporters on the ground were verifying the reports. I hoped it was just fear driving the revolutionaries which was understandable considering the other reports of what mercenaries were doing.

Just one thing. When the American Govt and Europeans sent ships and planes to evacuate their citizens, they left these people behind. Just like Rwanda, especially since it was known that they were in danger.

[Amonester]

17. The UN is aware of this.

IMO, I doubt the United Nations will refuse to do all it can to protect their Human Rights.

On re-edit: Tensions are high for everyone there.

[howard112211]

18. So these are the rebels we should be helping, yes?

[Distant Observer]

39. LIBYA: Rebels execute black immigrants while forces kidnap others

Numerous reports of this type are simply not getting through the gatekeepers in the Western press.


http://somalilandpress.com/libya-rebels-execute-black-immigrants-while-forces-kidnap-others-20586

ADDIS ABABA — While much of the world’s attention is focusing on crude oil prices and the Libyan pipelines in the east of the country– human right groups say rebels are committing crimes against humanity.

In east Libya, African hunt began as towns and cities began fall under the control of Libyan rebels, mobs and gangs. They started to detain, insult, rape and even executing black immigrants, students and refugees.

[tcaudilllg]

22. As expected, the "rebels" are just as insane as Gadhafi.

looking forward to the execution of their leader.

[Amonester]

25. The French revolutionaries executed a few of their leaders.

Happens.

May happen there too (hope not).

Gawdawfull killed 6,000 rebels already. Enough?

[Gravel Democrat]

29. Samantha Power, Cass Sunstein and cognitive infiltration

Some say the true authors of this war are "the three Amazons" of the State Department: Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice, and Samantha Power.

Here's Samantha Power:



Samantha Power is currently a Special Assistant to President Barack Obama and runs the Office of Multilateral Affairs and Human Rights as Senior Director of Multilateral Affairs on the Staff of the National Security Council.

Samantha Power is married to a one Cass R. Sunstein



Cass Sunstein is currently is the Administrator of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs in the Obama administration

On Jan. 15, 2010 Glenn Greenwald had this to say about Cass Sunstein:

Sunstein is currently Obama's head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs where, among other things, he is responsible for "overseeing policies relating to privacy, information quality, and statistical programs."

In 2008, while at Harvard Law School, Sunstein co-wrote a truly pernicious paper proposing that the U.S. Government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-"independent" advocates to "cognitively infiltrate" online groups and websites -- as well as other activist groups -- which advocate views that Sunstein deems "false conspiracy theories" about the Government. This would be designed to increase citizens' faith in government officials and undermine the credibility of conspiracists. The paper's abstract can be read, and the full paper downloaded, here.

Sunstein advocates that the Government's stealth infiltration should be accomplished by sending covert agents into "chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups." He also proposes that the Government make secret payments to so-called "independent" credible voices to bolster the Government's messaging (on the ground that those who don't believe government sources will be more inclined to listen to those who appear independent while secretly acting on behalf of the Government).

This program would target those advocating false "conspiracy theories," which they define to mean: "an attempt to explain an event or practice by reference to the machinations of powerful people, who have also managed to conceal their role." Sunstein's 2008 paper was flagged by this blogger, and then amplified in an excellent report by Raw Story's Daniel Tencer.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/01/15/sunstein

This reminds those of us paying close attention of the Amanpour-Rubin appearance of impropriety that could have made the overseers of Pravda blush. Amanpour, one will recall, was responsible for much or most of the "reporting" from Kosovo during our 78 day non UN approved bombing.

James Rubin was Chief Spokesman for the State Department from 1997 to May 2000. In the Clinton administration, he was considered Secretary Madeleine Albright's (PNAC signatory) right-hand man. Rubin and Amanpour were married in 1998.



So my point is not all tweets originate from true rebels and some english signs aren't painted by the Arabs holding them. You know that but others? Not so much.


Isn't it a wonderfully complex world?


*****



http://costofwar.com

[Distant Observer]

31. This goes to the HEART OF PRO-REBEL propaganda that has swamped any truth

that could come out of Libya.

[bullwinkle428]

33. I'm shocked...SHOCKED, at the very idea of cognitive infiltration and

stealth disinformation campaigns spread through online groups! :evilgrin:

[blindpig]

34. Nailed it.

The shamelessness would be astonishing if it hadn't been developing for decades. It is nothing more than 'the white man's burden' updated, with all of the same ulterior motives.

[chill_wind]

38. That's very interesting

and would make a useful OP of its own to explore, if you're so inclined.

[leftstreet]

40. K&R