They said it wasn't Chernobyl and they lied

[autorank]

http://agonist.org/michael_collins/20110325/new_scientist_fukushima_radioactive_fallout_nears_chernobyl_levels">New Scientist - Fukushima radioactive fallout nears Chernobyl levels

Michael Collins

According to an international scientific group monitoring radiation around the world, the Fukushima reactors are emitting nuclear toxins at levels approaching those seen in the "aftermath" of Chernobyl. The Chernobyl disaster began with an explosion. Fukushima is a smoldering cauldron of toxins. Chernobyl had 180 tonnes of nuclear fuel on site. Fukushima has 1700 tonnes of nuclear fuel on site. (Image)

This isn't the beginning of the end as hoped. It's looking like the end of the beginning.

[ixion]

1. They lied, and this surprises you why?

they always lie about everything, as the wikileaks releases show.

[autorank]

3. Nothing, I just thought I'd point it out once again;)

[Hannah Bell]

9. You got that from the New Scientist? They're among the liars, then.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20257-why-fukushima-daiichi-wont-be-another-chernobyl.html?page=2

[autorank]

26. The Austrian Nuclear monitoring group is tellinlg the truth

It was a New Scientist headline. Look at the group and what they do. They're in place to monitor
nuclear emissions around the world for the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.

They are NOT liars. They're speaking out at some risk, I suspect, to tell the truth, a truth
that the people need to hear.

They should be commended and New Scientist did just fine with their headline.

[BrookBrew]

27. Agenda pimps standing on corpses to add volume to their message..

really that simple. There is not one case of acute radiation sickness, not one death, not one fatality from this event and its already Chernobyl.


that simple fact on its face makes this article a steaming pile of shit.

Post the last two paragraphs from their free to distribute article, go for it..

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hannah Bell]

40. i didn't say they (zamg) were liars. i didn't say anything like that.

the referent for my comment is "new scientist".

you said:

"They said it wasn't Chernobyl and they lied" & posted a new scientist article to support your contention that 'they' told these lies.

i posted a new scientist article from a couple days earlier saying this was not chernoboyl.

ergo (per your comment) the new scientist must have been lying in the earlier article.

[autorank]

48. Oh sure.

Gee, thanks for clearing that up.

They're headlining stories, not making statements of belief or assertions. New Scientist is a newspaper/electronic news publication. But you take news headlines on a changing story and call that a contradiction. By your logic, once they'd headlined the first story they could never report a change in a headline or they're liars. That's simply beyond the pale.

Calling the Austrian institute a "weather service" without noting the highly sophisticated nature of their nuclear monitoring distracts from the importance of that story and it's significance in the overall picture unfolding in Japan.

[Hannah Bell]

51. i linked the EU page calling them precisely that, with a description of what they do.

sorry you didn't find it satisfactory.

i see you are willing to allow that the new scientist editors may change their opinion in light of changing evidence.

but the japanese government, in the midst of a 9.0 earthquake, a tsunami, the near-destruction of 1/3 of the country -- plus a nuclear crisis -- cannot. no, it was all lies from day one from the all-knowing, all-seeing japanese government.

which has, for some reason, no doubt nefarious, changed its strategy in the last few days & is now telling the truth.

i thought you were a bit less black & white than all that.

from zamg:

Since the volatile gases and particles like Iodine-131 and Cesium-137 do only make up a certain proportion of the total effective dose rates, our estimate does not imply that the effective dose rates around the Fukushima plant are comparable with those measured around Chernobyl. Using only the volatile substances Iodine-131 and Cesium-137 to calculate the effective dose rates, we end up with estimates that do not contradict the measurements provided by the Japanese Authorities and IAEA.


http://www.zamg.ac.at/docs/aktuell/Japan2011-03-25_1600_E_1.pdf

[autorank]

53. Totally unsatisfactory

You engaged in a rhetorical trick - misplacing news headlines for statements of position and then calling the reporting on disparate data and stories lying by the news source.

The quote you selected refers to "around the plant," which is different that the statement from New Scientist based on their interview with the Austrian authorities: "Japan's damaged nuclear plant in Fukushima has been emitting radioactive iodine and caesium at levels approaching those seen in the aftermath of the Chernobyl accident in 1986." "Emitting" means what's let into the atmosphere and carried by the wind. As ZMAG points out, Chernobyl was an explosion and Fukushima is a rolling collapse with a variety of leaks. This selective quote dos not contradict the New Scientist article and the position of the ZMAG folks to made the statements.

I have the greatest sympathy for the Japanese people. They have been and are ill served by their government, which only started measuring for particles, the most dangerous toxins, on March 23 according to the Chief Cabinet Minister.

The problems in reporting from the Japanese is why both the NRC and the EU authority announced, a week or so ago, that they'd developed their own sources for information on Fukushima.

The ZMAG people made an effort to have the truth come out and it has born fruit.

This is extremely serious. Given the b.s. on this, there is every reason to be concerned that much worse will happen.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4790297

[kristopher]

13. Full text of article here

New Scientist - Fukushima radioactive fallout nears Chernobyl levels

Michael Collins

According to an international scientific group monitoring radiation around the world, the Fukushima reactors are emitting nuclear toxins at levels approaching those seen in the "aftermath" of Chernobyl. The Chernobyl disaster began with an explosion. Fukushima is a smoldering cauldron of toxins. Chernobyl had 180 tonnes of nuclear fuel on site. Fukushima has 1700 tonnes of nuclear fuel on site. (Image)

This isn't the beginning of the end as hoped. It's looking like the end of the beginning.

CounterPunch ran an interview wit Japanese nuclear industry author Hiroshe Takashi just yesterday in which the author lamented the poor reporting of the tragedy in the Japanese press:

"Really, they talk this nonsense, trying to reassure everyone, trying to avoid panic. What we need now is a proper panic. Because the situation has come to the point where the danger is real." Hiroshe Takashi, March 22

Just two days later, the "proper panic" is on its way.

The Central Institute for Meteorology and Geodynamics of Vienna, Austria has a world wide monitoring system set up to monitor the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. They are well positioned to monitor the effects of the Fukishima disaster.

The group told New Scientist that:

"Japan's damaged nuclear plant in Fukushima has been emitting radioactive iodine and caesium at levels approaching those seen in the aftermath of the Chernobyl accident in 1986. Austrian researchers have used a worldwide network of radiation detectors – designed to spot clandestine nuclear bomb tests – to show that iodine-131 is being released at daily levels 73 per cent of those seen after the 1986 disaster. The daily amount of caesium-137 released from Fukushima Daiichi is around 60 per cent of the amount released from Chernobyl". New Scientist, March 24

The concerns about spent fuel rods and cooling polls in the reactor have materialized. The Chernobyl event was more discrete and identifiable with a major explosion but damaged reactors at Fukushima are toxic nonetheless. The Austrian scientists point out that Chernobyl had 180 tons of nuclear on hand while Fukushima has nearly ten times that amount at 1700 tons.

"When the fuel is damaged there is no reason for the volatile elements not to escape," and the measured caesium and iodine are in the right ratios for the fuel used by the Fukushima Daiichi reactors. Also, the Fukushima plant has around 1760 tonnes of fresh and used nuclear fuel on site, and an unknown amount has been damaged. The Chernobyl reactor had only 180 tonnes. New Scientist, March 24

In his interview on the 22nd, Takashi was blunt about the health risks. He distinguished between radiation in the atmosphere and radioactive particles carried in the atmosphere, then ingested into the body.

Yoh: So making comparisons with X-rays and CT scans has no meaning. Because you can breathe in radioactive material.
Hirose: That’s right. When it enters your body, there’s no telling where it will go. The biggest danger is women, especially pregnant women, and little children. Now they’re talking about iodine and cesium, but that’s only part of it, they’re not using the proper detection instruments. What they call monitoring means only measuring the amount of radiation in the air. Their instruments don’t eat. What they measure has no connection with the amount of radioactive material.
Yoh: So damage from radioactive rays and damage from radioactive material are not the same.
Hirose: If you ask, are any radioactive rays from the Fukushima Nuclear Station here in this studio, the answer will be no. But radioactive particles are carried here by the air. When the core begins to melt down, elements inside like iodine turn to gas. It rises to the top, so if there is any crevice it escapes outside. Hiroshe Takashi, CounterPunch, March 22

The Austrian Institute scientists also pointed out that the spread of radioactive isotopes from Chernobyl are still causing thyroid cancer today:

While in the body the isotopes' radioactive emissions can do significant damage, mainly to DNA. Children who ingest iodine-131 can develop thyroid cancer 10 or more years later; adults seem relatively resistant. A study published in the US last week found that iodine-131 from Chernobyl is still causing new cases of thyroid cancer to appear at an undiminished rate in the most heavily affected regions of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia. New Scientist, March 24

National Public Ratio (NPR) ran an interview with Japanese Green anti nuclear activist Aileen Mioko Smith yesterday. She brought home the rapidly spreading awareness the nuclear disaster in Japan.

She noted that a prominent Japanese scientist reworked the Tokyo Power data on soil contamination within 40 kilometers of Fukushima and found that the levels of contamination could be twice that of similar areas near Chernobyl:

And the soil contamination is really high. Soil found 40 kilometers away—now, remember, it’s still 30 kilometers indoors, stay indoors; 20 kilometers, evacuation. So, beyond that area, for example, north-northwest in Imatate, the levels on the soil were very high—in fact, a thousand times iodine, 4,000 times the cesium standard. And we just got a report from the Kyoto Research Reactor Institute, Dr. Tetsuji Imanaka, that said that—he had to look a little bit more into the sampling of the Japanese government, but depending on how the sampling was done, this level of contamination in the soil could be twice the amount that was compulsory evacuation for Chernobyl. Aileen Mioko Smith, March 24

Smith commented on the "travesty" of Japanese earthquake guidelines for reactors. She said:

"And I just want to address that the Japanese government’s earthquake reinforcement requirements, the standards that are in place, even today, at all the nuclear power plants in Japan, is really a travesty. And actually, the Fukushima plant was operating under 1978 guidelines. The new guidelines had been established in 2006, but even those guidelines underestimated this earthquake. The earthquake that happened in Fukushima this time was 140 times or so more than the maximum that was estimated under these new guidelines. And the new guidelines didn’t even take into consideration anything beyond the outer containment, and it didn’t even take into consideration the spent nuclear fuel pools." Aileen Mioko Smith, March 24

The Japanese public has awakened to a new world where tap water is a danger to children and pregnant women, where food from one of the nation's key agricultural regions may be toxic, and in which there is little safety offered by the guidelines that put in place ticking time bombs that are subject to inevitable natural catastrophes.

The story will continue to unfold and the people of the world will then have to decide on the wisdom of a laissez-faire energy policy that puts entire regions and nations at risk for health and safety.

END

This article may be reproduced entirely or in part with attribution of authorship and a link to this article.

http://agonist.org/michael_collins/20110325/new_scientist_fukushima_radioactive_fallout_nears_chernobyl_levels

[autorank]

46. Thanks for posting that! Here is the nuclear industry kill shot - brilliant and short piece

Is Nuclear Power Too Dangerous To Tell the Truth About?

[ixion]

15. lol... fair enough

:toast:

[kristopher]

2. This is good, it helps cut throught the misinformation being promoted here.

Thanks.

[autorank]

4. Welcome

This is very straight forward. The agency that monitors the nuclear treaties, fully equipped, says they see this level of radiation. Then Mioko Smith from Japan reports on scientists taking TEPCO data and coming to better conclusions. This is going to be a real wake up call. The Japanese people didn't sign up for this, not ever. I wish them well.

[formercia]

18. Now that there'a a suspected breach in reactor number three.

It's a whole new ball game.

I wonder why that water was so radioactive. Could it be the Plutonium going into solution? If so, we are all in deep shit.

[autorank]

28. Here you go

Chief Cabinet Minister Yukio Adano tonight admits that they are not monitoring radioactive
particles in the atmosphere. They've done a simulation but they're working on actually
monitoring this stuff.

Story and remarkable video here:

http://dailybail.com/home/we-are-not-able-to-measure-the-amount-of-radiation-coming-fr.html

[Cetacea]

16. You'd think they would have learned from the BP debacle

Though the truth may not be what they are promoting.

[Cetacea]

17. Thanks Autorank.

Always nice to see a post from you.

[autorank]

29. Welcome and thank you!

This is a mess. Check out the link in reply to formercia above. The video will blow you away. They're not even monitoring particles in the atmosphere yet. Remind you of anything. You're so right on BP. They did learn from that. BP got away with a travesty and did the cake walk. But this
is bigger than any catastrophe I've ever seen in potential and it is just ramping up. Higher Power help us!

[leftstreet]

5. K&R

:cry:

[Hannah Bell]

6. ZAMG is the Austrian weather service.

http://www.medclivar.eu/institutions/ZAMG.htm

[kristopher]

11. They are far more than a "weather service"

You're another with no shame, aren't you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Institute_for_Meteorology_and_Geodynamics

[BrookBrew]

25. I have no shame, but did stay awake through applied physics and mat sci.

and its not fucking chernobyl without a single goddamn body yet.

At least wait until they have one corpse from radiation. Just one?

[Whisp]

50. we know how truthful the news is and who owns it, yep.

[Hannah Bell]

41. tell it to med-clivar if you have problems with their description, kris.

doubt you even read the link.

personal attack seems to be more in your line.

[autorank]

30. And they monitor the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty

And they spoke out.

Here's what the institute does.


Comprehensive Test Ban Treat Organization

Here's more from thelink you provided for ZMAG: "The division has a long experience in climate and climate change related national and international projects.<like the test ban treaty>. It is experienced in formal and informal collaboration with the Weather Services in Europe as well as to a number of national and international research institutes and has the necessary staff and equipment for the requirements necessary for supra-national data-related climate research. Besides the key persons from ZAMG’s climate variability group, there may be additional support of the project by other staff of the climate department. The support includes also the use of the computational resources of ZAMG."

Here's NPR's description:

As radioactive contamination from the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant spreads, a global network of sensors is tracking it across oceans and continents. The network was originally set up to detect nuclear weapons testing, but scientists now hope it can tell them more about the accident.


Built For Bombs, Sensors Now Track Japan Radiation by Geoff Brumfiel March 25, 2011

The Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization began setting up its monitoring stations about a decade ago, with the eventual goal of enforcing a worldwide ban on nuclear weapons tests.

"We have currently over 280 sensors worldwide, monitoring underground, the atmosphere, the oceans for any sign of a nuclear explosion, and we're also sniffing the air for any sign of radioactivity," says spokesperson Annika Thunborg.

This measuring station, located in the far northern Canadian city of Resolute, is part of a network of sensors that the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization uses to detect radioactive particles in the environment.
Enlarge CTBTO

This measuring station, located in the far northern Canadian city of Resolute, is part of a network of sensors that the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization uses to detect radioactive particles in the environment.

This measuring station, located in the far northern Canadian city of Resolute, is part of a network of sensors that the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization uses to detect radioactive particles in the environment. ...

That now includes radioactivity from the Japanese plant. Explosions at three reactors and a fire at a spent fuel pool have released radiation into the atmosphere.

[tavalon]

7. Don't look at it as lying

Look at it as creative spin management.

On second thought, they have lied.

[kristopher]

12. Nope - you are just trying to keep people from reading the linked OP.

The OP has information far more credible than anything that the nukapologists have ever posted here.

http://agonist.org/michael_collins/20110325/new_scientist_fukushima_radioactive_fallout_nears_chernobyl_levels

About ZAMG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Institute_for_Meteorology_and_Geodynamics

[tavalon]

19. I guess I forgot my sarcasm smiley

The information is credible and bad, bad, bad.

[autorank]

35. Managing by the quarter

for maximum bonuses. Let the chips fall where the may - the rationale. Well, the chips are falling in deadly order and in a way that will be noticed by all. Imagine being CEO at GE. The story will come back to them when the current crisis is a bit more predictable. They risked a fine company, for the most part and a bunch of jobs, just to do nuclear, apparently not too well. I know that companies can choose, long range. I was with one a good while ago that got out of nuclear specifically because it was a bad scene and they didn't want to risk their "good will" (value of their name) on such a flaky exercise. It was a well reasoned executive decision that, in retrospect, was very much in that companies interests. I hadn't remembered that until I saw your reply. Thanks!

[PoliticAverse]

8. The longer the plants go on spewing radioactive materials into the environment the worse it gets...

And they don't have a firm idea on how much is spewing out really...

[autorank]

31. Chief Cabinet Minister Adono speaks - no measurements for particles

This is a fascinating video, especially for what they're not monitoring yet, like particles
in the atmosphere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyYcJc7dPaM&feature=player_embedded

[marions ghost]

44. Right

I don't know how the diehard proponents of nuke power can keep spewing their garbage about how great it is --even while the world's worst nuclear disaster unfolds.

It's like saying we should get used to sacrificing land and people for short-term gains. We should not care what's happening in Japan.

Nuclear power is not for the future--it's only legacy will be stockpiles of lethal waste for centuries.

[slay]

10. Maybe this will make us - as a country - rethink our priorities

like ending the wars, stop targeting public workers - aka citizens, make jobs available to anyone who wants one by whatever means necessary, address the homeless problem in our country, etc. Depending on how bad this turns out to be - the USA may need to provide refuge to many of the Japanese - at least until things are brought under control and the damage fully assessed over there.

This chance for positive change could have happened when we were last united - after 9/11 - but Bush used, lied, and manipulated the country into a pointless war for oil and profit. What a huge waste of potential. Hopefully soon these will be known as the old ways and we can move on to a more positive, humanitarian future.

[autorank]

36. Excellent connection between war for oil and this mess

It's like the think there are only two choices: war for oil or nuclear. Lord, they need some remedial courses in logic. There is huge potential for positive change. The dialog needs to broaden to a more serious set of alternatives. The people will do the hard work, the workers in UNIONS. Just point us in the right direction.

[TBF]

14. Capitalists will sell out their own grandmother for a dollar. This does not surprise me. nt

[autorank]

37. How much can they get for grany?

Yep
:hi:

[Me.]

20. Lying Is The New Normal

Just don't you (or me) try to get away with it

[autorank]

33. It's the old double standard

But what's good for the goose is good for the gander, I'm told.

[Raksha]

21. Why am I not surprised?

Re "They said it wasn't Chernobyl and they lied."

[autorank]

23. Because you're a realist

Can get you in trouble from time to time.

[freshwest]

22. Lying to protect the bottom line and power; when will we tell these people off?

[autorank]

32. Tell thelm off and send them packing

There are so many alternatives to nuclear, so much potential. When a decades long oil man like Boone Pickins stakes his career and reputation on wind, you know he can deliver. I'm not staying that's the only program but he had a careful and solid plan. They've marginalized him. But the facts are there.

I think the Japanese people will start the job of bringing justice to those who ruined their country.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zorra]

34. No surprise. Many here knew they were lying before they even said anything.

Because that is how it always goes.

[autorank]

38. Let me guess?

Their lips were moving. I have a little kernel of hope (scary word) that there are some rational people who can tell the truth, folks at the very top. But I never get to "Say it ain't so champ."

[EstimatedProphet]

39. One of the pro-nuke jackasses here laughed at me when I compared it to Chernobyl

HE then went on a self-righteous tirade about how I should educate myself, etc. etc. and I put him on ignore. Guess I was right in calling him a shill, huh?

[autorank]

54. Nice pic of Ming

He is among us;)

You were right. And it's getting worse.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4790297

[Bozita]

42. My quick scan of OP's title: "They said it wasn't Chernobyl and they fled"

Strange how that happened.

[Stinky The Clown]

43. Hi Mike!

So true, so true . . . the end of the beginning.

Indeed.

[autorank]

45. We're rockin' in to the new era of craziness

Paul Craig Roberts predicted the pro nuclear power backlash when it was clear Fukushima was FUBAR, a
couple of weeks ago. I didn't realize how subtle the move would be. But somebody noticed in a huge
way.

Check this very short and direct post out. It's the future and it's a real horror show.

Best regards! (nice sig line-who's the pic of?)

Is Nuclear Power Too Dangerous To Tell the Truth About?

[KoKo]

47. Amazing isn't it. No One ever learns the "Cover Up" is worse than "The Lie."

I have to say...I hoped for BETTER from the Japanese Govt. I didn't think they were as corrupt as we here in the US have become.

I expected more from them. BUT...I realize they are in a "total crisis" in their country that's not been seen since WWII and the Bombings by US. They are such a small piece of land and so devastated.

So...in some ways I can understand the denial of their Rulers ...because it's so awful for them and their people that psychologically...one does go into DENIAL...because it's just to horrible and devastating what has happened to them.

I have hope and (((vibes)) for them. It's like if the entire state of CA was under Radiation Threat...and I believe that Japan is probably half the size of the State of CA.... But, whatever...they have been a Powerhouse for Global Innovation and to see them like this once again is sorrow for the people all over the WORLD...wondering Who or Which Economy could be next to suffer like this.

So many Nuke Plants in states here in the US. Any one of them could blow, at any time, sending clouds of radiation over our food crops and causing waste lands that we couldn't travel through for decades.

We need to take seriously what this means for all of us who use this power ...and where the "storage options" are still not able to be fulfilled. So, "Spent Rod Fuel" sits and sits at the sites in our states ...still waiting for disposal. And, no one can agree...WHERE the disposal should be...or IF it Should Be.

What a Problem....

[Hannah Bell]

52. the *cover up*? what are you talking about?

there is no covering up a nuclear accident in the modern age of spy satellites & global monitoring. not a minor one, not a major one.

From the same people who did the analysis in the OP:

Since the volatile gases and particles like Iodine-131 and Cesium-137 do only make up a certain proportion of the total effective dose rates, our estimate does not imply that the effective dose rates around the Fukushima plant are comparable with those measured around Chernobyl. Using only the volatile substances Iodine-131 and Cesium-137 to calculate the effective dose rates, we end up with estimates that do not contradict the measurements provided by the Japanese Authorities and IAEA.

http://www.zamg.ac.at/docs/aktuell/Japan2011-03-25_1600_E_1.pdf

[autorank]

55. Here's what's being talked about

The quote you selected refers to "around the plant," which is different that the statement from New Scientist based on their interview with the Austrian authorities: "Japan's damaged nuclear plant in Fukushima has been emitting radioactive iodine and caesium at levels approaching those seen in the aftermath of the Chernobyl accident in 1986." "Emitting" means what's let into the atmosphere and carried by the wind. As ZMAG points out, Chernobyl was an explosion and Fukushima is a rolling collapse with a variety of leaks. This selective quote dos not contradict the New Scientist article and the position of the ZMAG folks to made the statements.

[Keith Bee]

56. Nooooo

They have gooooooood intentionsssssssssss. Yesssssssss.