Charred corpses after Western strikes on Tripoli. Depleted Uranium: A strange way to protect #Libya

[Catherina]

Charred corpses after Western strikes on Tripoli
By Khaled al-Ramahi and Zohra Bensemra

TRIPOLI, March 24 | Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:08am EDT

(Reuters) - Eighteen Libyans killed by what officials say were Western air strikes and missile attacks in the capital Tripoli lay in a hospital morgue, some charred beyond recognition.

...

"They are civilians. They are not guilty of anything," said morgue worker Abdel Salaam.

His associates, wearing surgical masks to ease the stench of death, rolled some bodies into numbered refrigeration units.

...

Some were burned beyond recognition. Others seemed frozen in time by the blasts. One man appeared to be pointing his finger just before death. A wedding ring was visible on another man's hand.

...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/24/libya-deaths-idUSSGE72N03920110324

Wait until the depleted uranium kicks in. Then they'll be really *grateful*.

iRevolt Roqayah
In the first 24 hours of the Libyan attack, US B-2s dropped forty-five 2,000lb bombs, all containing depleted uranium warheads. #Libya
13 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply


iRevolt Roqayah
Depleted Uranium: A strange way to protect #Libyan civilians http://bit.ly/dPX5Lz
7 minutes ago

Depleted uranium: a strange way to protect Libyan civilians
By David Wilson
Stop the War Coalition
24 March 2011

"(Depleted uranium tipped missiles) fit the description of a dirty bomb in every way... I would say that it is the perfect weapon for killing lots of people." Marion Falk, chemical physicist (retd), Lawrence Livermore Lab, California, USA



In the first 24 hours of the Libyan attack, US B-2s dropped forty-five 2,000-pound bombs. These massive bombs, along with the Cruise missiles launched from British and French planes and ships, all contained depleted uranium (DU) warheads.

DU is the waste product from the process of enriching uranium ore. It is used in nuclear weapons and reactors. Because it is a very heavy substance, 1.7 times denser than lead, it is highly valued by the military for its ability to punch through armored vehicles and buildings. When a weapon made with a DU tip strikes a solid object like the side of a tank, it goes straight through it, then erupts in a burning cloud of vapor. The vapor settles as dust, which is not only poisonous, but also radioactive.

An impacting DU missile burns at 10,000 degrees C. When it strikes a target, 30% fragments into shrapnel. The remaining 70% vaporises into three highly-toxic oxides, including uranium oxide. This black dust remains suspended in the air and, according to wind and weather, can travel over great distances. If you think Iraq and Libya are far away, remember that radiation from Chernobyl reached Wales.

Particles less than 5 microns in diameter are easily inhaled and may remain in the lungs or other organs for years. Internalized DU can cause kidney damage, cancers of the lung and bone, skin disorders, neurocognitive disorders, chromosome damage, immune deficiency syndromes and rare kidney and bowel diseases. Pregnant women exposed to DU may give birth to infants with genetic defects. Once the dust has vaporised, don't expect the problem to go away soon. As an alpha particle emitter, DU has a half life of 4.5 billion years.

...

http://stopwar.org.uk/content/view/2321/27/

[KG]

1. would you rather kaddafi march on Benghazi and slaughter 700,000?

:eyes:

[DeSwiss]

5. You ready to take that logic.....

...to North Korea? Congo? Zimbabwe? Darfur? Ivory Coast?


- Or is our magnanimousness only applicable where the "slaughtered people" also have oil in the ground???

[Recursion]

53. Two people are drowning. Guess I shouldn't save one of them.

:facepalm:

I oppose the intervention, but I find that argument appalling.

[DeSwiss]

55. Two people are drowning.....

...you should try to save one. Preferably without killing anyone in the process.

- And it helps if your motives aren't pecuniary.....

[MisterP]

60. it was 250K only two days ago: by Apr. 7 people will say he wants to kill 6M,

and he'll hit 100M by Oct. 2, if it's a linear progression

[Godhumor]

2. Libyan officials = flat-out lie. i.e. charred bodies were not killed by bombs

Anything that comes out of the Libya official channel is just wrong.

(And there are multiple reports of the Libyan army dragging shot bodies to bomb locations to make the claim.)

[Fool Count]

6. Sure, since US and NATO officials have proven their trustworthiness so

convincingly over the years we just take their word for it.

[Godhumor]

13. Again, every single thing the official Libyan government version says is designed explicitly for

propaganda purposes...explicitly. It is Gadaffi's MO, has always been his MO and will continue to be his MO.

[Fool Count]

61. Sure, as opposed to every single thing the US government says always being

an absolute unshakable truth. Gimme a break. According to my personal score, confirmed lies fed to me
by the US government up to now far outweigh the confirmed lies coming from Qaddafi. And I am now supposed
to trust them more based on that history? Pardon me, if I will pass on that attractive offer.

[joshcryer]

25. Charred bodies are highly unlikely with these types of explosives.

They're explosives, not firebombs.

Here's what happened: State TV showed "blown up bodies" and the news media didn't even consider it credible because they were bullet ridden and many days old, rotting. So what they did was decide "they're not buying it, we need to try something else" and then they very likely took some bodies out, poured gasoline on them, and lit them on fire. There, there's your charred bodies. The media, again, isn't buying it, because relatives aren't coming forward, because the bodies are unnamed, because bodies being bombed don't look like that (the Benghazi dead were mostly intact, the percussion from the explosion alone was enough to kill them; one reporter even wrote that it looked like they were sleeping on the back of the tank).

While no doubt civilians are being killed in these actions, I highly highly doubt the words of Libyan State TV propaganda machine, and the international media isn't buying it either.

[Hugabear]

57. Exactly. 2000lb bombs only kill bad people.

You see, these bombs are designed to only kill the bad people. After all, they are smart bombs and missiles, aren't they?

:sarcasm:

[DeSwiss]

3. Depleted Uranium being used in US weapons? In Libya?

Now I've been http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=566146&mesg_id=566293">assured that this isn't the case. So therefore it couldn't be true.

- And if it is.... well, at least they'll be free. Dead or dying and with mutated babies, but free.

K&R

[Poll_Blind]

4. We can just call the deformed babies "Freedom's Flowers" and it'll be OK.

See, doesn't that sound better?

And the ones which are spontaneously aborted, stillborn because the poisoning caused the body to reject the fetus as viable- we can call them something like "Desert Angels"

That's beautiful. "Freedom's Flowers", "Desert Angels"

All better!

PB

[Recursion]

11. Sigh. The issue is toxicity, not radioactivity

Toxicity doesn't cause mutations, it just kills you. It's less radioactive than bricks. That's why it's called "depleted". It's used as shielding in X-ray machines.

[Igel]

19. Actually, heavy metal can bind DNA.

This can produce birth defects.

Not exactly mutations.

[Recursion]

29. Well, that's a good point

And I'm not trying to make light of heavy metal toxicity (which is a real problem in war zones). I'm just tired of ZOMG DEPELTED UNRANIUMZ!!!! threads.

[felix_numinous]

20. Depleted uranium is used in gamma cameras, not xray machines.

Also DU is linked with gulf war syndrome, it is a very toxic metal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

[Recursion]

27. Yes, I mentioned its toxicity

But also mentioned that it is less toxic than the molybdenum that used to be used in AP rounds.

[DeSwiss]

56. Uhhh.....

...science begs to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium#Chemical_toxicity">differ.

Normal functioning of the kidney, brain, liver, heart, and numerous other systems can be affected by uranium exposure, because in addition to being weakly radioactive, uranium is a toxic metal.<6> DU is less toxic than other heavy metals such as arsenic and mercury. It is weakly radioactive but remains radioactive because of its long half-life. The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry states that: "to be exposed to radiation from uranium, you have to eat, drink, or breathe it, or get it on your skin."<64>

However, the Institute of Nuclear Technology-Radiation Protection of Attiki, Greece, has noted that "the aerosol produced during impact and combustion of depleted uranium munitions can potentially contaminate wide areas around the impact sites or can be inhaled by civilians and military personnel."<8> In a three week period of conflict in Iraq during 2003 it was estimated over 1000 tons of depleted uranium munitions were used.<9> The U.S. Department of Defense claims that no human cancer of any type has been seen as a result of exposure to either natural or depleted uranium.<65>

As early as 1997, British Army doctors warned the British MoD (Ministry of Defense) that exposure to depleted uranium increased the risk of developing lung, lymph and brain cancer, and recommended a series of safety precautions.<66> According to a report issued summarizing the advice of the doctors, 'Inhalation of insoluble uranium dioxide dust will lead to accumulation in the lungs with very slow clearance - if any . . . Although chemical toxicity is low, there may be localised radiation damage of the lung leading to cancer." The report warns that 'All personnel... should be aware that uranium dust inhalation carries a long-term risk... has been shown to increase the risks of developing lung, lymph and brain cancers."<67>

Studies using cultured cells and laboratory rodents continue to suggest the possibility of leukemogenic, genetic, reproductive, and neurological effects from chronic exposure.<4> In addition, the UK Pensions Appeal Tribunal Service in early 2004 attributed birth defect claims from a February 1991 Gulf War combat veteran to depleted uranium poisoning.<68><69> Also, a 2005 epidemiology review concluded: "In aggregate the human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in offspring of persons exposed to DU."<10>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium#Chemical_toxicity">link.

[Recursion]

62. That's what I said

It's a toxic heavy metal, like any other munition. It's not a radiological weapon.

[malaise]

15. Yes We Can

:puke:

[Recursion]

9. If we had tanks firing armor-piercing rounds we would be using depleted uranium

It's less radioactive than bricks. It's used because it makes the round heavy enough to punch through armor. It's not used in cruise missiles. It's toxic, but less so than the molybdenum it replaced. I'm getting tired of people making up conspiracy theories about it.

[indepat]

64. Surely the US wouldn't use DA (with a half-life of 4.5 billion years) for as surely as God made

little green apples in the summertime, use of DU as a weapon would surely be a monstrous crime against humanity and: the US doesn't torture, much less practice genocide. :patriot:

[Recursion]

7. Depleted Uranium is used in cruise missles?

That makes absolutely no sense. It's not used in explosive rounds. It's used in APFS rounds to make them heavier. It's less toxic than the molybdenum it replaced and less radioactive than bricks.

[Catherina]

32. Yes it does, please catch up. Missile warheads are adapted depending upon the target

They can indeed have a DU insert added for the penetration of hard-targets like bunkers and reinforced concrete and armored targets.

One example for the Tomahawk cruise missiles is a WDU-36 warhead encased in titanium with a depleted uranium tip

This is old, it's from the Iraq war the patents clearly admit it. A little research could help you understand the "hysterical" "ZOMG DEPELTED UNRANIUMZ" threads a little better before you weigh in.

[Recursion]

34. That patent mentions DU might be used

It isn't; the use tungsten just like the patent says. There's one kind of bunker buster that uses it, and we're not attacking cold-war era missile silos.

[Catherina]

37. Okey dokey n/t

[snot]

8. K&R'd

[sasha031]

10. did anyone expect anything different

[Recursion]

12. I don't expect depleted uranium in bombs

Since it's not used in them. And I certainly don't expect depleted uranium to make "charred corpses". I guess I really shouldn't expect non-hysterical threads on this site about depleted uranium, either.

[Gravel Democrat]

24. BBC: Nato reveals Kosovo depleted uranium use

Nato has finally given the United Nations some details of the areas in Kosovo where its aircraft fired depleted uranium (DU) ammunition in last year's Balkan conflict.

Last October, the UN published the results of its investigation into the environmental aftermath of the war.



In its work on DU, it said it had been "forced to rely on available published information", and it urged Nato to provide more detailed information on its use of DU weapons.

But even now, according to the UN Balkan Task Force (BTF), the information is not detailed enough to allow "an accurate field assessment of the environmental and human health consequences".

DU is 1.7 times as dense as lead, and is used in armour-piercing rounds. It is only mildly radioactive, but on impact with a solid object it burns off in a spray of very fine dust.

Much Much more @ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/686593.stm

[Recursion]

26. Yes, it's in bullets, not bombs

It's used in armor piercing bullets, like those fired from A-10s.

[Gravel Democrat]

33. BBC: DU is used in the core of missiles,..

Balkan syndrome probe begins

"...A scientific team from Portugal has begun examining sites in Kosovo, where Nato's use of bombs containing depleted uranium is alleged to have caused contamination and led to illness and deaths among soldiers serving there..."



"...This has been blamed on the depleted uranium (DU) used in the manufacture of Nato missiles - but Nato itself insists there is no risk of contamination...."

"...DU is used in the core of missiles, as this makes them better able to penetrate armoured vehicles.

The Portuguese Prime Minister, Antonio Guterres, said on Saturday he could no longer "be completely confident" in Nato assurances, while Poland has announced plans to carry out medical tests to all its soldiers in Kosovo..."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1104087.stm


******

http://costofwar.com

[Recursion]

35. Those were the fin-stabilized sabot rockets (not missiles) used against tanks

Again, not cruise missiles.

DU rounds save lives because they let a tank or howitzer take out a bunker with one round, rather than with a barrage that would flatten four city blocks.

[Catherina]

36. Again, please catch up. DU is used in bombs too.

Just one example here

[Recursion]

38. Again, no

The patent application listed the potential application of DU rather than tungsten or molybdenum. But that's not how they got built.

[Catherina]

46. Such determination to support this war. n/t

[Recursion]

49. I oppose the intervention in Libya

Nice try, though.

[Catherina]

54. Thank you for clarifying that. Apologies n/t

[Recursion]

14. Why do people keep repeating the repeatedly-debunked claim that cruise missiles have DU warheads?

Seriously. Isn't there enough wrong with this intervention without making stuff up?

[Godhumor]

17. We also have to keep repeating the charred bodies were killed by us lie, too n/t

[Igel]

21. For some, the bad guys must be as evil as possible.

Even if the evils are imaginary.

For some, the bad guy is a constant. No matter what the bad guy does it's bad. Even if he does what the accuser thinks is good, the goal is evil, the intent is evil, the means are evil, and that so taints the enterprise that it is evil.

[joshcryer]

23. As long as it's anti-west it's basically good, there's no room for shades of gray.

[Gravel Democrat]

28. Notice how...

The *entire* country of Libya has been reduced to the Crazy Kaddafi vs. unknown "rebels".

Exactly like the entire country of Serbia was reduced to Milosovic.

It's much easier to brush off the casualties and stir blood lust.

"You're with us or you're against us! :D "

[Recursion]

30. Not particularly

I notice how the entire country has become Ghadaffi's mostly-hired, mostly-foreign army, some rebels of sketchy provenance, and a shitload of civilians between them, who for the most part seem to prefer the devil they don't know of the rebels.

[joshcryer]

22. Agendas.

[bluestate10]

16. You believe Qaddafi and his agents? Stunning. nt

[Godhumor]

18. 12 net recs for an article containing not a single fact. Love it. n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

31. Unrecced for so, so, so many reasons. Hit-n-run for starters. Transparent propeganda,

Too much bold type makes your message almost unreadable, the bull-crap about DU has been debunked thoroughly ad nauseam, probable copyright violations and - my favorite - eighteen bodies and they all happened to be fighting aged men...... Hmmmmmmm. Wonder why THAT IS?

[Recursion]

40. I'm still curious how an alleged "DU missile" would cause burns (nt)

[Tx4obama]

39. Video of Libyan Soldiers Loyal to Citizens Burnt BY GADDAFI

Reported February 21, 2011
Before the No Fly Zone

Tyrant Gaddafi burnt soldiers in Benghazi, Libya who refused his orders to attack innocent citizens in Libya. About 60 were burnt with a military flame blower.

Video of Libyan Soldiers Loyal to Citizens Burnt by Gaddafi - refused orders to attack citizens (graphic)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x556426

[Catherina]

41. And this has exactly what to do with destroying innocent Libyans for generations to come?

Sorry, that's a fail. Deja vu too in every conflict where we need to justify an inhumane response. That's some humanitarian intervention we got going there. Don't count on too many thank you letters next year. I'm still waiting on thank you letters from the Iraqis and the Afghans. Maybe mine got lost and went to the White House.

[Tx4obama]

42. And what does the pro-Gaddafi propaganda OP have to do with anything? n/t

[Catherina]

43. So now Reuters and antiwar articles are pro-Gaddafi propaganda?

Interesting. Speaks volumes.

[Tx4obama]

44. Anything that comes out of Tripoli said by Gaddafi backers I call BULLSHIT.

Gaddafi is letting reporters see only what he wants them to see in Tripoli.
Everything is set up beforehand.
The morgue story is propaganda BS.

[Catherina]

52. I see. The Reuters journalists are lying now. Just like the Sky News Journalists

Anything that gets in the way of supporting this war is an inconvenient fact that has to be dismissed as a lie.

Let me know when you get your thank you from the people of Iraq and Afghanistan for the depleted uranium. I'll be patient and give the people of Libya a few years to get around to it.

[Tx4obama]

50. In your OP it says: "(Reuters) - ...... killed by what officials say were..."

That would be GADDAFI OFFICIALS - so why would anyone believe that after all the other lies that have come out of Tripoli?

[Godhumor]

51. Even Reuters states: "In what officials say..." i.e. they know they've been fed a line

As I said elsewhere, it really is not too hard to find other articles talking about how people recognized fighters shot to death in the 33 burned ones. Or how the staged funeral for 33 ended up being 14 bodies, all of which were recognized by the locals as fighters killed in ground action. The other 19 weren't there because, according to officials, they were being buried in their home towns.

The story is BS, even Reuters knew it. Makes me wonder why they bothered reprinting Gaddafi's crap.

[joshcryer]

47. Meanwhile in Misrata:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/25/us-libya-misrata-fighting-idUSTRE72O63720110325">Six killed in Libyan town shelling: rebel
(Reuters) - Forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi shelled an area on the outskirts of the city of Misrata on Friday, killing six people including three children, a rebel said.

The Libyan port, the North African country's third biggest city, has experienced some of the heaviest fighting between rebels and forces loyal to Gaddafi since an uprising began on February 16.

"There was shelling this morning and almost all of the day; it targeted a residential area on the outskirts of Misrata called Al Jazeera. Six people were killed including three sisters aged 2, 5 and 12 years old," rebel Saadoun said by telephone.

"This residential compound is northwest of Misrata and they attacked it with mortars and tanks."

[Amonester]

45. Don't try to show "the other side's atrocities" (and war crimes).

AGENDAS are at stake.

It's not like it's a Civil War, you know, with two sides....

Nope. It's a Civil War with just one (US vs "them modern and educated burka-less mon$ter followers") side.


:sarcasm: needed?

[Statistical]

48. DU in 2000lb bombs? Hardly.

DU is a penetration aid. It isn't used in 2000 pound bombs. Not that facts have ever stopped a rant.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Godhumor]

59. Except we didn't kill these people. Gaddafi disinformation at its finest

And we didn't drop DU on anyone via bombs. There is nothing in the OP that is accurate.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

63. The depeleted uranium claims are indeed total BS

None of the weapons employed contain DU.

I think what is going on in Libya is unacceptable. However when we mix the specious DU claims in with legitimate protest, we get written off as nut cases. Stick to facts and we gain credibility.