People who were activists in the 60's- did you feel hopeless before you got mad?

[w8liftinglady]

I am seeing an infinite amount of suffering in my area...poor,hungry,homeless...it is sickening.
just miles down the road,they are so fucking rich they don't know what to do with all their cash.

I see a revolution.
It will happen.
I hope it does before too many more suffer.

i find myself becoming more and more socialistic in my political views as I watch continued suffering.Is this common-or am I just going nuts?

[no_hypocrisy]

1. I'm not giving up b/c I can't give up.

I can only hope others feel the same way.

[Scuba]

2. +1

[Lint Head]

3. No, and the world has changed because of it. Vietnam lies were exposed

and on the lighter side even executives today have long hair as a result of the counter culture self image.

[roguevalley]

33. no, I just got mad.

[Le Taz Hot]

4. I wouldn't say hopeless,

but I think we recognized the enormity of taking on TPTB, including, at the time, a pro-war Democratic president. The problem was that we had to take on the government, popular opinion AND the Democratic Party -- all entities that were pro war.

The truth is the activists only made up about 10% of the Boomer generation. People forget that. But we kept ourselves informed, we held our elected officials accountable (now THERE'S a concept), we continued our activism and we refused to let the government, the Republican Party OR the DEMOCRATIC PARTY deter us. Eventually, with the drip drip drip of a) originally idyllic soldiers coming home telling us the truth of what was really happening, b) the Pentagon Papers and finding out the truth about the Gulf of Tonkin, c) horrors of things like the Mi Lai massacre coming to light and d) Walter Cronkite actually going to Viet Nam war and announcing he no longer supported our efforts there, public opinion eventually changed and none but the most ardent head-up-their-ass moron supported the war any longer. Despite our anti-war leaders being conveniently assassinated in their prime, approx. 10% of the young people of America changed the tide of this country.

Parallel movements happened with the Civil Rights movement, the Women's Rights movement, and Student Rights movement.

[OHdem10]

7. The Parallel Movements.--the Women's Movement, Civil Rights

Movements meant there was a big story on the News
every Night crating the impression there was one
big movement on the Left.

Furthermore, the activity was 24/7. Not just a
march that lasted a few hours. People were in the
streets, in some cases civil disobedience, and yes
riots. The Movements could not be ignored.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, it took
this to force change. A few marches no matter how
and no change would have happend.

[Le Taz Hot]

9. All of those movements started with a few marches or actions.

It took several years (and constant dedicated activism) to gain the momentum it had in 1968 when everything boiled over. You do, however, make an excellent point in that we actually had journalists back then with actual, real news rooms. What we didn't have back then was the internet and entities such as WikiLeaks and Anonymous. Sure as hell beats walking the streets handing out informational pamphlets.

[annabanana]

27. Back then the media took it's role seriously.

It made a huge difference.

[robcon]

5. I think just it was just the opposite.

I think the movement gained strength through victories, and anticipation of future successes.

There was no hopelessness at all in any shape, way or form. Young people (like me) felt empowered.

The anti-war marches, the counter-culture victories, the changing of the "establishment's" bargain with Ameeicans created real change, and were vital steps in the enormous change in U.S. culture during the 60's and 70's.

[Upton]

6. If you think there is going to be a revolution here..

then yeah, you're going nuts. Sure it's a shame those in charge seem to think it's more important to spend resources on wasteful wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Libya than it is to help our own American citizens, and the inequities are there for all to see.. but the overwhelming majority in this country are still living a lifestyle that much of the rest of the world would kill for..

[inna]

40. the single condescending and the least helpful comment in the otherwise great thread

[Snoutport]

45. I feel the same way Inna.... i got to hopeless and now I am getting mad

mad enough to protest myself and to send checks to the states under attach, Little checks, but it feels good.

[niyad]

8. cannot speak for the rest, but I never felt hopeless, just angry and determined to make things

better. I did not think we would be fighting the same battles all these decades later, and facing those who are even uglier, more hateful, more determined to send us back to the dark ages, then they were then.

[randr]

10. You have exposed an important aspect of protest

As you find yourself growing more and more angry at the sight of suffering you may be more likely to act. The images of MLK and friends being pummeled by angry southerners inspired and activated the Civil Rights Movement and the Viet Nam War dissent. Recently, the images of people being beaten only increased the outrage in Egypt.
What I find interesting is the medias role. The activists of the 60's were not just a youth movement. Demonstrators came from every corner of society: grandparents, church groups, womens organizations, military veterans, unions, artists and musicians. What the news networks ran were the images of violence and disturbing behavior. They tried to depict the demonstrators as radicals and angry young people. This is the recorded image left for history but it is not the truth. While the media, the same corporations that own the networks today, tried to paint the protesters as "radical", the actual message received was a picture of state oppression and violence directed at American citizens. After a time most people had participated in or knew someone who may have been at one of the protests that were held every weekend across this nation for years. The facts reported neighbor to neighbor dismissed the message the media wanted people to believe. At the same time the images of war became harder to ignore.
We now live in an age with far greater access to the events taking place. The MSM has lost the battle to control the message. The revolution is all around us and it will be broadcast.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. And that is the reason why the media go out of their way to avoid covering demonstrations

in the U.S.

I've often thought that the best place to have a demonstration would be right on the front steps of your community's largest TV station.

[Autumn]

11. No I never felt hopeless, until now.

I think that was because I had the belief that there were good and reasonable people in our Government. Now I just don't see any.

[femrap]

19. It's up to

'We, The People' now. No one in the gov't is going to help us....NO ONE.

We have to take our power back....'We, The People' must unite and cooperate.

[w8liftinglady]

12. Maybe I should rephrase- did you find that looking around and seeing nothing done-

by the masses troubled you?
Activists are just that for a reason- they are the ones who say and do...instead of sheepishly watching.
i find myself being ineffective just saying and doing.
What is the next step?


I have said and done for about 6 years.
it doesn't seem to be making a difference anymore.

[Le Taz Hot]

14. It takes getting to critical mass.

That drip-drip-drip I mentioned in my earlier post does have a cumulative effect. Japan and now Libya has knocked Wisconsin off the news but it hasn't gone anywhere. Believe it or not, Wisconsin resonated and will continue to resonate with every union-busting attempt. And what happens if/when some of these guys get recalled? Talk about popular empowerment. I think between the banksters getting away with raping this country's wealth, with the poor and the middle class getting the bill for wealthy tax breaks, with so many people losing their jobs, their homes, their way of life and now we're fighting THREE wars while the country is going bankrupt there WILL be a point where we collectively say, "No more!"

[ellenrr]

38. It's an important question you ask---

My friend asked me today at the demo- did I think our demo would change anything.

I think we don't know what will have an effect or what will make a difference until it happens.
Like Tunisia- the young man who burned himself to death, and the people who stood up after his death - I'm pretty sure that at that moment they wouldn't have predicted they were lighting a flame which continues to spread across the Arab world, and indeed- across the world.

They were doing what they felt they had to do. When I go to a demo, I go because it seems like the right thing to do, not because I think my being there is necessarily going to ignite a movement.

It seems to me - that if we do things only for the effect they have, it is easy to get discouraged.

None of the above is meant to disparage your feelings - if you feel discouraged that is certainly legitimate. I feel that way a lot!
But I feel better if I take some action.

[MineralMan]

13. Good question. I never felt hopeless, but just kept working

toward the goals. I still am. Hopelessness always seemed nonproductive to me. My activism started in 1965, when I drove from California as a 19 year old to Selma and Birmingham. There were times when I felt like all the efforts were futile, but history shows that they were not. I guess it's a matter of expectations. If you expect things to change overnight, then you're going to be very frustrated. That's certain. If you expect change to take a long time, suffer setbacks, and only slowly happen, then you will probably be rewarded in the long run.

Activism doesn't cause immediate change very often. There's a huge amount of inertia to be overcome.

[old mark]

15. I don't feel hopeless, but I feel let down by the Democrats, both this administration

and the Clinton administrations...they had so much potential and they fucking blew it, and wasted our time and effort.
The Democratic Party is nowhere near where they once were, and I would support a Leftist/Progressive wing of the Democrats-sort of a Labor Party-just to try to get them on the right path again.
I never expected anything good from the GOP, and they have not dissapointed me-they are worse than ever.
BUT the Democrats have turned their back on workers and the middle class and certainly on what remains of the Left in the US now...seems like the GOP is doing more to build the Left than the Democrats are, although unintentionally...

I am more angry than hopeless.

mark

[snot]

16. This worries me, too -- I DON'T recall the same hopelessness. Also, I think the media

really were more "liberal" -- although I'd say they were more objective -- but they did actually SHOW casualties of war; they did actually SHOW people protesting, etc. Now most of the media just ignores realities such as those, while continuing to "catapult the propaganda."

Not that I'm old enough to remember! ;)

[Iggo]

17. I felt 5.

I didn't really get what was going on. And there was a LOT going on, not just anti-war. I could see it in my parents' eyes, and I could hear it in their silence when we were sitting watching the news together. My mom grew up in Canada, her parents having fled Ireland (her dad was English, her mom was Irish; use your imagination). My dad was a very brown man from East L.A. who fought in Korea in the fifties (another war where the powers that be swore swore up and down it wasn't a war) and by the 60's was trying to live The American Dream in the suburbs of SoCal. It was Hippies vs The Man. Long-haired boys in puffy shirts and short-haired girls in pants. Flat-out racism on TV. Wars. Protests. The '68 Chicago Convention. It was women's rights, minority rights...man, it was a cultural revolution in the making. And I don't think it entirely "took", if you know what I mean. When I was a teenager in the 70's, that started to become clear to me...but I was so well on my way to becoming a drugged out guitar player (read: "bum"), that I missed my chance to try to make a difference while I was young and strong. The cloud lifted in the mid-90's, but I was 35 years old, physically spent, and a convicted felon by then.

But the 60's were a time. I was a little kid looking for explanations for what was going on in the world, and my parents honestly admitted they had very few. Although with a lily white mom and a chocolate brown dad, racism, civil rights, and equality were always on the table, and they taught me and my sibs very well. Cuz even though times were changing for the better for mixed-race children of mixed-marriages (do people even say "mixed-marriage" anymore?) the neighborhood kids' parents werent always on their best behavior, know'm say'n?

Anyway, that's what I remember about the 60's.

(EDIT: Almost got all the way through that without any tyoing mistakes. Almost.)

[femrap]

18. The economy wasn't as bad as it is now....

The Corporations did not have the massive amount of Power and Control that they have now.

There were true Journalists in the '60's. And if one watched TV between 5 and 7:00 pm, you watched THE NEWS....which had nothing to do w/ celebrities unless one had died.

We felt that WE COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE. The War in Vietnam was a disaster w/ needless death and destruction. AND THERE WAS THE DRAFT SO RICH KIDS SERVED.

It was an ERA OF FLOWER POWER....MEN WERE EXPLORING THEIR FEMININE SIDE.....growing their hair long. And women nearly ended the Cosmetics Industries. Everything was NATURAL. No one wore 'fashion labels.' Boys and girls dressed in a unisex fashion of jeans and shirts. What was on the INSIDE of a person was IMPORTANT...not the outside.

As a group, we felt united and powerful....we could stop this War. WE COULD PUT AN END TO THE REIGN OF PRESIDENT NIXON.

Today....ALAS. The GREEDY f*ckers are starving us. And pretty soon everyone feels they have 'nothing left to lose.'

Look at Europe....protests EVERYWHERE!!! London, Portugal, Greece.....even Canada yesterday.....they took down the Gov't!!!! And rejoiced by throwing papers in the air (See Rachel Maddow of yesterday...Friday).

The Globe is erupting into REVOLUTION. The Middle East, Northern Africa.

Even my pathetic state of Ohio turned out a HUGE protest to the Governor's House of King John Kasich. Look at Wisconsin. Michigan.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE READY TO TAKE CONTROL OF THEIR LIVES OR DIE TRYING.

Please.....people....STAY OUT OF DEBT. COLLEGE ISN'T WORTH IT. And consider reproducing very carefully. The World is NOT a friendly place right now.

There are too many people and not enough RESOURCES.

The paradigm is shifting....from Competition to Cooperation....and TPTB/Were are in their dying throes....and that's when they are most dangerous. Fairly soon people will realize that the only way to survive is through COOPERATION!!!!!!!

imho.

[Zorra]

22. I really like your post a lot and agree.

"The Corporations did not have the massive amount of Power and Control that they have now"

"I THINK PEOPLE ARE READY TO TAKE CONTROL OF THEIR LIVES OR DIE TRYING"

"Fairly soon people will realize that the only way to survive is through COOPERATION!!!!!!!"

It's time.

[femrap]

23. Gosh....I read the

words I typed and got a huge rush of goosebumps for some reason.

I'm glad you agree.

You're right.....'It's time.'

:pals: :fistbump: :headbang: :yourock:

[Zorra]

30. Cheers!

:toast:

[HockeyMom]

20. Karma

or what goes around, comes around. It also tends to go in cycles. I believe that. I have seen too much, good and bad, to not believe it. It may not happen right away, but it will. These Republicans may think they have they upper hand now, but sooner or later it will come back to bite them in the rear end.

It always has and always will.

[Smarmie Doofus]

21. This could describe me right now:

>>>..i find myself becoming more and more socialistic in my political views as I watch continued suffering.Is this common-or am I just going nuts?>>>

The "socialist" part; not the "nuts" part.

I used to be more of an incrementalist. Half-a-loaf is better than one, etc. But that was when things seemed *generally* to be going in the right direction, albeit at a maddeningly slow speed.

Now we're going the other way. Less culturally than economically and politically.

Money buys power in America.

Period.

Money.

A lot of us didn't get that thirty years ago, and maybe it was less true then. But it sure is true now.

[jtuck004]

24. I don't think change was brought about by anger as much as it was

education and training. The anger started it, but it was the hard work, voting, and educating large numbers of people that brought the change.

As well as sex and drugs, of course.

Had it just been anger we would have moved toward a more fascist state, much like we are doing now.

[starroute]

25. The 60's got progressively radicalized

The civil rights movement gave way to the Black Panthers. The SDS gave birth to the Weathermen.

A number of people on this thread have said there were never a sense of hopelessness. That may be true to a degree -- but I think a lot of it had to do with the economy. It was the era of guns-and-butter. Wages were high compared to the cost of living, the minimum wage was set at a livable level, and jobs were easy to get.

But on the political level, there was just as much sense of all paths to peaceful reform being choked off. People felt helpless to end the war, helpless to dismantle the military-industrial complex.

The whole hippie thing was a response to that helplessness. If you can't reform the system, then just turn on, tune in, and drop out.

By 1967-68, that drop-out impulse began to wane and hippies and activists started making common cause. Activists were smoking dope and growing their hair, hippies were getting hassled by the cops enough to feel like a persecuted minority, and the Yippies jumped in to bridge the gap.

That's the part of the 60's people remember as iconic. But if you look just a little further back, to 1965-66, you see an enormous amount of anger and frustration. Just go listen to some classic Phil Ochs songs if you doubt it.

[dixiegrrrrl]

34. Good point.

The large protests of the late 60's grew out of the slowly building dis-satisfaction of '64, '65'66' mood.
Esp. following the killing of JFK...THAT really shook people up.

So there was a period I think we are in now, here in the USA, of more people talking openly about their dis-satisfication and the problems, then a period of time when groups got together to protest ( like in Wis. and Michigan) then it seemed there were protests everywhere in the country, at colleges, statehouses, The WH, and there were marches. ALL the time, it seemed.
I remember less frustration, less a feeling of anger, than one of sheer determination.
I remember a deeply serious, no bullshit feeling of
"ok, that's it, enough is enough".
I do not remember any feeling of helplessness or hopelessness. I don't remember any feeling of fear of consequences.
I figured the worst that could happen would be I would be arrested for protesting, and I did not care, I figured someone would bail me out.

For me, the turning point was the Chicago Convention.
On live TV Dan Rather was roughed up.
Live tv news, esp Cronkite, carried the riots and protests, and showed the Chicago Police brutality towards demonstrators, just as tv had showed the viciousness of the police towards the people during the Civil Rights marches.


The attitude I remember was the feeling that change was possible. Much optimism. God, we were so damn optimistic.
Courage of our convictions. Maybe only the young can have that en masse, I dunno.

Currently I do see the momentum building here. So do TPTB. I think they will be much more proactive to stop any momentum than in the past.

[Irishonly]

26. I am not sure if hopeless is the right word

I feel twinges and then I get to work. My political views haven't changed much since the 60's. Guess I was radical then and am radical now.

[Paladin]

28. The Military Draft Was A Primary Driver Of The 60's Protests.

Once the draft was done away with, the anti-war movement deflated with embarrassing speed.

I am proud of every anti-war activity I participated in, so many years ago---and I participated in a bunch of them. But self-interest can't be discounted as a reason for what happened back then....

[robcon]

29. Good point - we should not forget the impact of the draft.

n/t

[lonestarnot]

31. You are not going nuts.

:hug:

[Love Bug]

32. We saw thousands of flag-covered coffins

The #1 reason why dubya didn't allow photos of those from the Afghanistan or Iraq wars.

[WillyT]

35. K & R !!!

:kick:

[ellenrr]

36. I was active in the '60's, I didn't feel hopeless or mad..

I was 17, I felt hopeful and powerful.
I thot we were going to change the world.

I think that is part of being young, why most activism is led by the young, and the oldsters drop in.

Now I don't think anything is going to change much in my lifetime, except get worse - in this country.
Nevertheless I still go to demos and such, well why not - it is something to do, and I'm not gonna quit now.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

37. No. I was so much younger and thought I could change our country for the best. Now, I feel it's

futile. I've seen too much of our history in my past and it won't change.
The fix has been in for a very long time. Without campaign finance reform we never had a shot....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. No. Change, real change, was thought to be possible.

Cynicism set in after the '68 Democratic convention and Kent State.

[handmade34]

41. I was too young

to feel hopeless and I refuse to fell hopeless now! I am angry

[Fire Walk With Me]

43. Change occurs when the majority demands it.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

44. No, beause I hadn't been fighting for 40 years against

this sh*t

[WhiteTara]

46. I found that very interesting about the zoning laws

of Dallas area...incredible wealth and poverty intermingled. The empty park benches the homeless were not allowed to use and all the streets going round and round and round.

May I suggest Pema Chodron as a spiritual teacher to help your anxiety? She is an incredible Buddhist teacher and offers insights on how to be a spiritual being on a social justice path without going nuts.

[Justina For Justice]

47. You're Not Going Nuts, You're Going Sane!

At the age of 14 I realized that socialism was the only rational way to run a society that put human needs before private, corporate profits. From 17 on, I was active in the civil rights, anti-war and women's movements. I never felt hopeless until five members of the U.S. Supreme Court fraudulently appointed George Bush as president, and I felt even worse when, through fraud in the Ohio vote, that jerk was re-"elected".

At 65, living in socialist Venezuela, I am even more convinced that socialism is the only rational way to run a society. Now, watching Venezuela's positive example and the U.S.'s horrific one, I am hopeful that the people in the U.S. and throughout the world will create human, democratic socialist societies and end the horror of capitalism once and for all.

[mistertrickster]

48. The 60's radicals didn't do as much as people think in retrospect.

They did a wonderful job of alienating the working class, unions, and everybody over thirty.

The Vietnam War stretched on for about 20 years and 58 thousand US soldiers officially dead.

If that's a victory, what's a loss?

ON EDIT: We're still trying to live "Hanoi Jane" down. Great strategy! Real organizers like Saul Alinsky had nothing but contempt for the long-haired poseurs. Why? Because they were all about themselves and not about convincing a majority for change.