Cameras catch speeders

[pokerfan]

First it was red-light runners. Now it's speed enforcement and it's probably coming to your state if it hasn't already. States love the camera. It works 24/7 and never calls in sick. It's not about preventing speeding, really. When you aren't even aware that you've been nabbed for speeding until weeks later when the citation shows up in the mail, there's hardly any deterrent effect at that point. No, this is all about collecting the fine. Don't want to get a ticket in the mail? Answer's simple: Never do anything wrong.

(Ridgeland Mayor, Gary) Hodges is not surprised by opposition to the cameras, particularly with South Carolina's history of motorists' rights. South Carolina was one of the last states to enact a .08 blood-alcohol level for drunken driving and took a long time to pass a primary seatbelt law.

"We went through similar things when breathalyzers came out. We went through similar things when radar guns came out," Hodges said. "It's the same type of mentality."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/27/ap/national/main20047643.shtml

[WingDinger]

1. If it was up to me, I would have kids shoot out the lens.

They are owned by the corps, and get a take. They also have been KNOWN to rig the system to entrap legal acting drivers. In Orange county, a judge put them out of business for two years. CROOKS.

If they could, they would make up laws. And I got a judge and cop busted for doing just that. They got theirs at midnite though. They busted down my door. Guns drawn and handcuffs.

[Taverner]

4. Or do like they do in the UK

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/index2.htm



Fill a tyre with petrol, put on speeding camera and light :evilgrin:

[sarcasmo]

20. The U.K knows how to take care of a speed camera, nice!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. Why wait for the kids?

Great monkey wrenching opportunity

[Blue_Tires]

46. Activists in Arizona have been slapping duct tape on the lens

for a few years now...It's been pretty well organized...

[theaocp]

2. I'm guessing the mayor's tickets

will never see the light of day, let alone get paid. Fraudulent assclowns.

[Blue_Tires]

49. The mayor almost certainly gets a huge kickback from the company

red light/speeding camera contracts are BIG money

[formercia]

3. Public Transportation is the key

Oh, wait, that would kill a big revenue source.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

5. I think your're onto something...

less speeders
less seatbelt violations
less auto insurance
less auto registration (tags)
and the automarts (aka:autozone) would also hurt.

BUT

We still could use a High Speed Rail System in the USA.

[formercia]

9. Now you're getting it

Less car and truck sales
Less gas sold, thus less Tax Revenue.

..and you wonder why the Koch Whore Governors cancel High Speed Rail...oh, wait Koch=Oil

[buddysmellgood]

6. Why would you speed if you knew you'd get caught?

[hlthe2b]

8. Ever drive several miles without it being apparent what the speed limit was?

No signs blocked by trees or defaced by vandals, or missing totally where you live or frequent? Never been in traffic and unable to see a change in speed limit sign that is blocked by traffic in the near lane? Honestly, do you really think it is always possible to avoid accidental speeding?

[buddysmellgood]

15. So some speeding is okay?

[hlthe2b]

34. A little sanctimonious, aren't you?

Geebus. Take your soapbox elsewhere. I'm simply stating that even the most "law-abiding" and cautious driver could be caught up in these speed traps. Speed enforcement should be geared at deterrence so as to improve motor vehicle safety--not simply ticket traps. This is clearly of the latter variety.

[buddysmellgood]

53. Have you ever been hit by a car? A "ticket trap" doesn't trap

people who drive safely. I'm not saying that cameras can't be abused, but in problem areas with low enforcement they can save lives.

[WingDinger]

56. An OC judge shut down just such a good driver trap, for two years.

The evil, is that the company gets cut. SO, they have a vested interest in trappping folks. And when the bad drivers stop doing it there? Pressure is present to up the trap. Monkey with yellow times. Etc. Many jurisdictions are complaining that the revenues sold to them have diminished. PROVING, that it is about revenue, not safe driving.

[ScreamingMeemie]

58. As the (recently disabled by law changes) red light cameras in Houston prove...

"Ticket traps" don't save lives. Please don't spread false info. Thank you.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

39. I have that on my daily commute

Going southbound there is a sign for where the speed limit goes down to 50, going Northbound there is no sign at all - until you reach another sign that says 60. Apparently the sign has been missing for the better part of a decade.

[pokerfan]

10. Why not install GPS trackers on all vehicles?

GPS is actually quite good at monitoring speed. Then once a month the state could send you a speeding bill or perhaps deduct your account directly. It's not really about law enforcement anymore. It's all about the $$$.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. That is being considered and prototyped for "usage charges" for roads

Electric and hybrid vehicles wreak havoc with the current funding models

[Lance_Boyle]

55. Electrics, maybe, but hybrids? That's a joke, right?

I mean, if the Geo Metro didn't wreak havoc with its 52+ MPG I don't see how the 20-30MPG figures for most hybrids are doing so.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

65. No joke...experimental study use in the northwest mostly

[Quixote1818]

23. Better yet, why not program vehicles/GPS to let you know you are more than 5 mph

over the speed limit or for that matter if you want to be a safe driver and avoid tickets, program the car and GPS to prevent the car from speeding over 5 or perhaps 10mph over the speed limit.

I would love this kind of system as it would probably save me a couple hundred a year.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

47. Limiting the ability to accelerate is extremely dangerous. nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

66. Garmin shows going over the limit in RED on some units

[Blue_Tires]

48. Don't tempt them...

[WingDinger]

57. Seen the damn Progressive commercial?

[DutchLiberal]

62. The $$$ just come in handy; but it *is* about law enforcement.

You see, keeping people from speeding... is enforcing the law.

We have the system in Holland; works good. I'm all for it.

[JohnnyRingo]

7. Our previous mayor spent a ton to erect red light cameras here in NE Ohio

A circuit judge shut them down a couple years ago, but the cams remain mounted to every traffic light. I assume they're just awaiting their day.

I don't speed (really), and I don't run lights, but I'm opposed to this foot in the door of government surveillance.

[Blue_Tires]

50. another side issue is that cities spend so much to install the cameras

there is a much bigger emphasis on catching speeders (both electronically and manually) because the city wants to quickly pay off the debt incurred by buying the systems

[elocs]

13. Swedish Speed-Camera Pays Drivers to Slow Down:

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/12/swedish-speed-camera-pays-drivers-to-slow-down/#

Is it possible to make road-safety fun? Yes, it turns out. Kevin’s idea is both smart and simple. As well as ticketing you when you run through a speed-radar too fast, Kevin’s “Speed Camera Lottery” also notices you when you come in at or under the speed-limit. It then automatically enters you in a lottery. And here’s the really smart part: the prizes come from the fines paid by speeders.

This would probably never work in the U.S, where speeding fines and red-light cameras exist as revenue streams for the police rather than as deterrents to bad driving, but the Swedish National Society for Road Safety, which worked with Kevin, has found it to be a success. The average speed of cars passing the camera dropped from 32km/h before the experiment to 25km/h after. Now, if only there were a way to pay car-drivers to be polite to cyclists.

[blueamy66]

14. And these cameras cause drivers in AZ

to slam on their brakes and cause accidents.

Yeah, they're great....NOT

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. Can you give us the stats on that, please?

How many more accidents do you claim happen because of them?

[kentauros]

22. Here's the Federal Highway Administration report on that:

Safety Evaluation of Red-Light Cameras

"Crash effects detected were consistent in direction with those found in many previous studies: decreased right-angle crashes and increased rear end crashes."

[blueamy66]

26. thank you

and this is just about red light cameras....I'm talking about speed cameras on 65 mph highways.....people see the cameras and slam on the brakes....thank goodness they've been shut off here

[kentauros]

27. I guess I misread your post.

But it looks like it's the same mentality with regards to their reaction to the cameras.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. Good - "a modest aggregate crash cost benefit of RLC systems"

So they reduce accidents. Any stats about speed cameras, the main subject here? (Apart from the one quoted in the OP article showing that they lower accidents and deaths)

[kentauros]

32. No.

As I stated above, I misread blueamy66's post about speed cameras instead of redlight cameras. I would suspect the FHA would have data or a study on that, if you look...

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. The results sound very good

Could be a statistical anomaly, but it's up to the camera opponents to prove that:

From January to July of 2010, there were 55 crashes and four fatalities. From August through the end of last month, there were 38 crashes and no deaths.

Can one of the opponents tell me why that is bad?

[Modern_Matthew]

19. When results are the only thing that matters, you stand to accept just about anything. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. When results mean nothing to you, you'll never progress (nt)

[Quixote1818]

21. It depends on who is programing the cameras and the the length of the yellow light

In Albuquerque they pulled them because they say it started losing money. Originally the company running them had everything set to where the yellow lights were very short and all kinds of people were getting tickets that probably should not. At night it looked like the cameras were flashing every ten seconds. The number of tickets was astronomical! It was a racket big time! The company making them was getting really wealthy and they were raising tons of money for the city. Some people were able to prove the camera's were dishonest and there ended up being so much pressure on the Mayor he pulled the plug (even though they say they were losing money). How do you lose money on a camera that only costs a few thousand dollars? It probably pays for its self in a day even with the longer yellow lights. There were lots of rear end crashes because everyone got scared to even go through a yellow light and they were slamming on their breaks. I even saw a rear end crash right in front of me that I am sure had to do with the cameras. The light turned yellow just as they reached the intersection and they got part way out and slammed on their breaks causing the other car behind them to nail them.


http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S2030196.shtml?cat=500

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. No yellow light involved in speed cameras

Just a posted speed limit, which will already be there.

[Quixote1818]

18. They had cameras in Albuquerque and shut them down because of public outcry

Not sure if they will come back or not.

[blueamy66]

25. They're gone here on the freeways in AZ as well.

Big Brother has been shut down for the time being.

[bhikkhu]

24. I would definitely support cameras in problem areas

There are at least a couple that come to mind - a stop sign in front of my daughter's school that too many people roll through, while chatting on the phone; the beginning of a 35 mph zone in my neighborhood, which is well posted but still people fly through regularly at 55-60; an intersection of a busy road I have to cross twice a day (on my bike), where over 50% of the time after the light changes another car or two fly through against the red.

In principle I'd say if people manage things well on their own, then there's no need or call for cameras. On the other hand, I think everyone is aware that there are some bad areas, there are habitually careless drivers, and plenty of places that are simply dangerous without traffic controls.

[MindPilot]

45. Not every problem demands a law enforcement solution.

If there is an open sewer cover on the sidewalk, you don't fix it by setting up a camera to watch pedestrians fall in.

If drivers are ignoring a stop sign in front of a school, maybe that intersection needs a crossing guard on duty during school hours or that intersection needs the stop signs swapped out for a light.

If people are driving over the speed limit in a certain area, then it's entirely possible that speed limit is too low. Decades of traffic engineering studies have shown that when the speed limit is set at or very close to the speed 85% of the vehicles are traveling, there is most efficient flow with fewest accidents. Unfortunately most speed limits are set arbitrarily with more of an eye to ticket generation than safe driving.

If there is an intersection where a lot of drivers slide through after the light changes, then this is most likely a timing problem.

If there are problem areas, fix them! But actually approaching things like this with science and engineering makes it difficult to extort cash from motorists.

[bhikkhu]

54. I suppose it depends on the experiences one has had

I've had much more experience in my lifetime with idiot drivers - whether drunk, inattentive, careless, or just stupid - than I have with overly restrictive traffic controls. Few people really think about the thousands of pounds of metal and glass they are hurtling along in through populated cities.

I don't have any trouble myself with driving the speed limit, stopping for red lights and stop signs, even stopping to let people by at crosswalks...just driving slower and paying attention makes it all safer and easier for everybody. Sometimes it takes fines to get people to take their behavior seriously.

[The Straight Story]

31. Tie cameras to all law makers first, then get back with the rest of us (nt)

[Shagbark Hickory]

33. The red light cams did so well here they took them down. Not the money makers they thought they were

gonna be. I guess.

[seabeyond]

35. i am really good at not running red lights. i am not really good, actually really really

really bad going the speed limit. cannot be done. impossible. i am really good at spotting cops and taking foot off the gas. but not good at all, going speed limit.

i am in so much trouble.

[hlthe2b]

36. LOL... chronic lead foot may have been "cured" by my Prius...

I keep watching the gas consumption monitor and that reminds me to slow down and not speed off from red lights as I once did. I really hate when I have a drop off in MPG-- it is almost a competition with myself. LOL

[seabeyond]

37. ah ha. see, i could see that. the whole competition with self thing.

when i drove my husbands trooper, i didnt speed as much. was just a cumbersome, slow moving vehicle. but my cars....

zoom zoom zoom

lol

[JohnnyRingo]

40. LOL... There has to be a support group somewhere.

Good luck my friend, and Godspeed.
Actually scratch that last part.

[seabeyond]

41. godspeed.... bah hahhaha. ya, that. nt

[blueamy66]

43. And therein lies the problem...

people see these speed cameras, as they see cops, and SLAM on the brakes....

[seabeyond]

51. i have not experienced the cameras. i know when i see a police

i dont slam on breaks, more take foot off pedal... but i agree, there is a whole behavior when cop is seen. it is amazing how much people slow down, beyond the speed limit. drives me mad... but i can see what you are saying.

is it an area that warns there are speed cameras? so people know the cameras are there?

[blueamy66]

59. yes, there were warnings....but people are people

thank goodness they're gone

[seabeyond]

61. good to know there are warnings. and i am glad they didnt work either

waste of money for your state

[blueamy66]

67. yep

and everyone that I know that has gotten a ticket in the mail never paid it...waste of time AND money

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

38. There is a bunch of guys in Phoenix who dress up like Santa and vandalize them

I think they have been at it for three or four years now,

[MedicalAdmin]

42. I was once among a group of guys who monkey wrenched a speed camera

We took turns sitting with a slingshot lobbing rocks past the trigger zone to set it off when there was no cars on that stretch of road.

Shoot. Click. Sip beer. Shoot. Click. Sip beer. Repeat 10s of 1000 times. We worked it in shifts randomly for about a month. They kept sending out repair trucks and finding nothing wring with it. The reason we did this is because this was a pilot program test camera to see if it worked for the whole city. It turns out the company in questions equipment had a huge false positive problem... He he he.

[blueamy66]

44. And then there was the guy that shot at a camera van

with a man in it and killed him...

[jillan]

52. Not in Arizona. We had them. But the rethugs wanted them out so badly that some guy that was fix-

ing one of the lights got beaten.

We have a problem with people going 100mph+ on our freeways. When we had the cameras the number of accidents and injuries went down.

I was sorry that they took them away on the freeways.

[DutchLiberal]

60. We have had that in The Netherlands for a long time now. I'm 100% for it.

Like you said: don't want a ticket? Don't speed.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

63. If I allegedly broke a traffic law, then I think I have the right to be told so.

At the time the offense allegedly occurred.

By a human who witnessed it with his/her own two eyes.

I have a serious, serious problem with turning law enforcement over to machines. No offense, RoboCop. Or Carl's Jr.

[Xithras]

64. The real nasty ones are the "Averaged Speed Cameras"

You pass Camera A, and it records the time and your license plate number. Many miles later (could be 1, could be 10, could be 25), you pass Camera B, and it records your license plate number and time.

The computer knows the exact distance and speed limits between the two cameras, and knows the minimum amount of time that it should have taken you to drive between those points. If you pass Camera B before that minimum amount of time, the computer merely has to do the math to determine your average speed and figure out how much your fine should be.

I was introduced to one of these during a visit to the UK. Apparently they're spreading across Europe, and it's only a matter of time until someone tries to install them in the U.S.