Is there any doubt; that this nation is fascist?

[ej510]

Look at the actions of our government. Everyone understands the republican party is 100% fascist, but too many political figures in my party are fascist to. I am tired of the all out assault on the working class and the poor.

[theaocp]

1. Question: does fascism rely on a dictator?

I'm honestly not sure of how the two intertwine. Anybody know?

[white_wolf]

2. Fascism is according to its founder, Mussolini:

"The merger of the state with corporate power."

[Siouxmealso]

4. OK

So does that mean that Bill Gates can send me to jail for not using Microsoft products? How does he have power over me?

[Terry in Austin]

8. When the crowd thins out, do you do the same?

No -- when you frame the question distributively, it makes no sense.

Collectively, however, corporations do have considerable power over the citizenry.

They have enough power to bypass the government's ability to maintain policies favorable to the majority. Any way you cut it, corporations are running the place.

[Selatius]

17. He can buy more politicians than you, and use those politicians to pass favorable laws. nt

[Quantess]

42. Exactly.

[ej510]

5. No, a country can be fascist without a dictator. We've proven this since 9/11.

The holding of American citizens in captivity without any of our fundamental rights.

[kenny blankenship]

9. Paleo Fascism was modeled on military leadership: the Caesar, the General of Generals, Napoleon

Contemporary Corporate Fascism is modeled on business leadership. Bland and banal. Not covered in gold braid and medals. Not the extraordinary individual who "embodies the folk" and will lead them to their glorious destiny, but instead the five hundred players, who best manage resources, and will cut out the dead wood. The leaders of Corporate Fascism will rotate in office, coming and going like managers and directors of companies. The faces will change, but the suits and the prospectus stay the same. Five hundred Fuhrers, one voice.

[coalition_unwilling]

24. Rather than a dictator, classical fascism requires a one-party state.

Fascist regimes in the 20th century tended to have 'charistmatic' leaders (Hitler and Mussolini naturally come to mind). It is why I do not believe the USA has tipped into fascism quite yet. There is still at least the outward appearance here of a two-party, i.e., multi-party, state.

[theaocp]

25. NOW, we're getting somewhere.

This is what I thought, too. We're just moving closer to fascism, as there is no liberal party that can win. The dems have become moderate pukes and the pukes are mindless corporate drones. Not fascism yet, but it's frightening as all hell. Fuck.

[coalition_unwilling]

30. FWIW, I earlier had pegged Palin as the 'charismatic leader' that a

native-born American fascist movement would coalesce around. Proves that I should not be in the forecasting biz, as Palin has become for most Americans an object of derision and\or amusement.

A key difference between the US and various European countries where fascism took hold is that those European countries employed parliamentary systems with proportional representation which allowed fascist parties to gain a toe-hold and some legitimacy.

[Yavapai]

40. Our political system today,

has a right wing and a left wing, both attached to the same corporate bird. Both are largely financed and controlled by this same corporate bird.

When one wing loses the respect and trust of the enabling class (the voters who actually vote), the other wing is thrown into power to make it APPEAR that there has been change and to appease the populace. This is what keeps the lid on and keeps the fascist power elite in actual power.

The battle between the fascists and the people have largely been between corporate interests and unions. It is my belief that the assassinations of John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King and the elections of Nixon, Reagan, and the Bushes have all been huge victories for the corporate fascism we see today. These things plus the corporate takeover of all media have brought us closer to the propagandizing and “dumbing down” of the population to accept fascism as the rightful leadership of the American Empire.

Very much like following footprints while hunting, one sure sign of fascism is the hatred of communism, socialism, and any true reform that jeopardizes the ultimate power in the hands of the corporate state.

This is my 7 cents worth (adjusted for inflation from 2 cents worth). I am probably paranoid, but this explanation is the only way I can seem to make sense of today’s realities. I would find it very interesting to hear others ideas on this subject.

Also I would like to hear what others think of the apparent “people’s revolutions” in the middle east. Are they true revolutions or fascist manipulations to bring about total world fascism?

Or do I need to be on Meds???

[immoderate]

96. It's a kinder, gentler fascism...

The key is the answer to the question, "Who runs the country?"

Few can say, "It's the people," with a straight face.

--imm

[SDuderstadt]

97. That doesn't make it...

"fascism".

[immoderate]

100. So tell me then, who runs the country?

Who decides how our health care system, education system, military, transportation, and public services are distributed?

And what would you call it? :shrug:

--imm

[SDuderstadt]

102. Dude...

Do you understand the difference between plutocracy and fascism?

Running around screaming "fascism!" at anything and everything, makes us look silly.

[immoderate]

104. There's a difference?

Maybe I don't understand the benefits of living under a plutocracy. You should tell me how fortunate I am.

--imm

[SDuderstadt]

106. What a stupid strawman argument...

I said nothing about a benefit.

This inability of many on our side to think critically is a huge problem.

[immoderate]

112. Which one of us lacks this ability?

If the "plutocracy" derives its power from corporate wealth and protections, how do I differentiate them from fascists, who use corporate power to control the state? Is it in their smile? Don't you detect some overlap here?

Are we all willing participants in this plutocratic rule? I don't remember voting for it. How did it come about? Who imposed it?

--imm

[SDuderstadt]

113. If you think "plutocracy" is a synonym for...

"fascism", not only do you lack critical thinking skills, I can't help you.

[immoderate]

119. Do you think you could explain the difference?

You understand this so well. Do you think you can articulate the critical points well enough to instruct myself? Be careful though, as it requires that you understand what you are talking about well enough to verbalize it.

Is it something like, fascists will eliminate any and all dissension, and plutocrats will only take out the serious threats? Is it something about direct control vs. indirect control or some other cosmetic difference?

I mean, what can I do when you own critical thinking?:shrug:

--imm

[SDuderstadt]

120. You could start by doing some...

serious research before throwing words like fascism around.

[immoderate]

121. Can you not articulate ANY difference?

It seems you are stuck in personal insults. Understandable when the "synonym" straw man doesn't work. Give some thought to the fact that no two words have exactly the same meaning. So the synonym challenge always works.

Now, can I assume that your declaration that this is a plutocracy effectively rules out the possibility that it can also be fascism? Can you point me to the literature which proves these things to be mutually exclusive.

You may have nailed when you suggest I do "serious" research. I tend to laugh a lot when I do research. How did you know?

--imm

[SDuderstadt]

122. More stupid strawman arguments

You can start by stopping your gross mischaracterizatiin of what I've said. We can see how it goes after that.

Deal?

[immoderate]

123. What have you said? Plutocracy rules out fascism -- AFAICT.

That's all you got? Like most people who can't back up their arguments, you throw it back to me for homework. :rofl: You already declared my thinking invalid, so you don't have to respond to any points I make. You have already done this "critical thinking" and cannot share the fruits of this wisdom with a fellow DUer?

I thought a fascist state could be run by a plutocracy. You say, because we are run by a plutocracy, we can't be fascist. Did I miss your other reasons? Something to do with synonyms? (in Boolean: p --> ~f )

I define my fascism the way Mussolini defined his, "a merger of government and corporate power." I don't see how plutocracy prevents this. Do you? How can you have fascism without a plutocracy to build on? Where do I find the "serious research" that supports this? You have nothing to offer. And being enlightening in any way is just not your thing. You haven't defined your terms, you know.

When you imagine a fascist, is he wearing a uniform? with boots? maybe a helmet? Or is he wearing a suit? How about golf pants? Answer that one, and we'll discuss what critical thinking means.

--imm

[SDuderstadt]

124. Show me where I said that n/t

[immoderate]

125. You didn't. But you did say that we are a plutocracy and therefore...

what? :shrug:

If you didn't mean we are a plutocracy instead of a fascist state, what did you mean? Vague is hardly a defense. Does your post mean anything?

--imm

[Hawkowl]

63. That explains Obama's obsession with bipartisanship . nt

[BobbyBoring]

98. But that's all it is

An "appearance" of a two party state. As I've said countless times, there are a handful of Ds that haven't been totally corrupted and those that aren't are being eliminated like Alan Grayson. Reid, Dodd, Frank, etc are nothing more than corporate lackys.

[coalition_unwilling]

126. I'm no big fan of the current Democratic Party, but I do have to

disagree somewhat with your assessment. We have a far-right (quasi-fascist) party of Republicans and a Center-Right party of Democrats. They form a legitimate two-party state (hence not fascist), even though the left wing has been all but exterminated in American politics (a trend that began in the late 40s and reached its apotheosis under Reagan and the two Bushes).

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ej510]

6. Some people will continue ignore the obvious, because it is hard to

believe the wealthiest nation on the planet is a fascist state.

[Better Believe It]

48. You still can freely post on DU? How is that possible in a fascist state?

[RegieRocker]

60. Give it time my padawan friend.

[dkofos]

7. It has beeen since to coup in 2000.

Where have you been??

[Cleita]

10. We still haven't jumped the broom, but it's so low

that we only need to step over it to become a full blown fascist government.

[SDuderstadt]

11. If this was a "fascist nation"...

you would be brutally suppressed.

Stupid OP.

[Xicano]

27. Fascism isn't an on/off switch. No political model is. They are a slide rule.

With various degrees of intensity. I would thought you'd understand that. The OP is stating that political slide rule is weighted more toward the fascist side than the democratic side.

Does the government tend to listen to the people more or do they tend to listen to corporations more? Marijuana is a good example. Despite the majority of the people being for medical marijuana, and despite democratically held elections in states passing medical marijuana laws. Does the federal government respond to the will of the people, or do they respond to the will of business interests to maintain marijuana illegal in every aspect?

The right to assemble and redress of grievances against the government is routinely trampled upon to benefit the corporate class. How many times have we seen this? Just ask Amy Goodman to respond on this example. Remember her experience at the RNC at Minneapolis? And her experience isn't at all an isolated occurrence. What do you call "free speech zones?" Isn't ALL of America a free speech zone? Aren't free speech zones more fascist than democratic?

Who is it on the ballots you get to vote for? Doesn't our ballots look more like Halliburton vs Goldman Sachs or Exxon vs Aetna as opposed to a republican candidate vs a Democratic candidate representing the interests of their citizen base?

And don't even get me started on the militarized police and their ever increasing heavy handed policing and disrespecting of people's rights. We can keep going on and on and on with examples which illustrate what direction that slide rule is gravitating toward.

[SDuderstadt]

28. Good advice...

I won't "get you going".

[Bonobo]

43. It's about time someone pointed out that obvious fact.

It is indeed a sliding scale and there is no real way you can argue anything but that the US has been sliding in the direction of fascism.

[Xicano]

45. Thank you Bonobo.

Its also sad to see, and just as sad to see others not recognizing it.

[SDuderstadt]

56. So, if we slide the other way...

are we sliding into communism?

Please take a critical thinkimg class.

[Bonobo]

64. You know I've come to realize...

Below the snark, there is zero substance.

[SDuderstadt]

65. I'm sure it must suck to....

get called on your logical fallacies, dude.

Maybe debate just isn't your game, Bonobo. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

[anneboleyn]

39. True, SDuderstadt. Just reading about Operation Sea Lion yesterday, scary stuff.

The term "fascist" gets thrown around here, too bad, given the threat posed by a genuine fascist state planning to invade major European countries for "living space."

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

46. Ridiculous on it's face.

How does a nation-state function when everyone is brutally suppresssed.


Just following your if-then statement...

[SDuderstadt]

67. Show me where I said "everyone" is...

brutally suppressed.

[immoderate]

101. And only full brutal suppression qualifies a fascism.

Partial brutal suppression, or less intense suppression, such as controlling media and communications channels is part of democracy, right? A fascist just wouldn't shirk his responsibility to be brutal to everyone.

--imm

[SDuderstadt]

103. Please show us where...

there's even "partial" brutal suppression of the opposition.

[immoderate]

105. Demonstrators are never gassed and beaten here.

Right?

--imm

[SDuderstadt]

108. In a fascist country...

It would be the rule.

Please point to any examples of peaceful demonstrators being passed or beaten you cam find. Rioters are not peaceful protesters.

[immoderate]

115. That's easy...

Nearly 300 arrested on convention's first day, nine injured

I'm wondering where you got the notion that unless there are violent confrontations, fascism doesn't exist. Corporate control over the government is necessary and sufficient to qualify. That's all you need.

If coverage of legitimate demonstrations is suppressed, what do we call that? :shrug: The benign guidance of our plutocrat handlers? Did you see any Iraq war demonstrations on the TV? Who made that decision for us? Hint: corporations own the media. And how did the government assault on unions come to be? Those wonderful Koch brothers, who appear to own about a dozen states, are just here to help?

--imm

[SDuderstadt]

117. First of all...

you claimed they were being gassed and beaten, yet the article you cite talks about a few having minor injuries. Does that sound like "being beaten" to you?

Secondly, corporate control of the government is known as "corporatism", not "fascism". Read a fucking history book and quit embarrassing liberalism.

[treestar]

51. +1

The ability to say this freely without consequences means it's not.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

52. People didn't say stuff "freely" under fascism?

Where do the last gasps of free speech(and other sundry rights) end and fascism begin?

It's not monolithic.

[treestar]

53. No.

Anyone who complains about fascism in a truly fascist state winds up in jail or worse.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

54. I guess I'm gonna make you define "truly fascist."

This conversation would be pointless otherwise.

[Enthusiast]

75. Hardly.

If the government engaged in brutal suppression it would raise an alarm in the masses of sleeping sheep. The fascists do not want to alarm the people. They wish to bring the frog's water to a boil gently. Besides, they are getting everything they want now without brutal suppression. They just employ plain old suppression without the brutal.

Look at it this way, the nation outspends the entire world on the military. What is your justification for a military of such scope?

[SDuderstadt]

79. Brutal suppression of the opposition is...

a hallmark of fascist regimes. Maybe you should study the concept.

[Enthusiast]

116. Absurd.

So fascism absent the brutality would be perfectly benign and not really fascism at all?

That is exactly what today's fascists want us to believe. One would be a fool to believe such unfounded nonsense.

There will be plenty of time for classic fascist brutality once the fascists have gently removed their opposition from power by dumping vast amounts of corporate money into elections, voter suppression and outright election fraud.

[SDuderstadt]

118. Another stupid strawman argument...

I never said anything was benign. But, as I stated previously, brutal suppression of the opposition is a defining feature of a fascist regime. Do you see the Obama administration brutally suppressing its opposition?

This subjective definition of fascism is deeply embarrassing to liberalism.

http://remember.org/hist.root.what.html

[tritsofme]

12. Do I think President Obama is the head of state of a fascist nation?

No, I think that sounds pretty fucking stupid.

[MineralMan]

13. The United States of America is not a fascist nation.

You apparently do not understand what fascism is. That can be corrected.

[taterguy]

14. Get back to me when you get 'disappeared' for making comments like that

Then we'll know it's fascist.

[ZombieHorde]

15. I don't think the US government is fascist, and I don't think the Republican party is fascist.

Fascism is pretty specific.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism

–noun
1. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

2. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.

3. ( initial capital letter ) a fascist movement, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

[RZM]

21. I think the OP is talking about DU's rather loose interpretation of fascism

Definition: 'Anything a particular poster does not like.'

[Posteritatis]

23. Certainly does get watered down after awhile, doesn't it?

I remember a few people here freaking out because Obama was addressing schools; they described it as the most authoritarian act in human history. What the hell?

People need to read a book or two sometimes, I swear.

[virgogal]

16. Life is too short to be so unhappy. I would strongly suggest that you emigrate.

[Selatius]

18. You could make an argument that the US is a proto-fascist state.

In more familiar examples of fascism, there aren't even any elections or even pretenses of the people having freedom.

[TheKentuckian]

19. I don't see why it matters precisely what form of authoritarian, resource stealing system we are

under other than properly accessing it to destroy it and to root out it's progenitors and ardent footpads.

[Lint Head]

20. Frank Zappa said it best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fam5wRXcoQE

[Lint Head]

22. More by Zappa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLVUHknb-Is&feature=related

[Bonobo]

44. +1

[Enthusiast]

76. I love Frank!

CNN had to destroy Crossfire. See, even Crossfire allowed liberal ideas to make into the public discourse. This was completely unacceptable.

[Rex]

26. I think parts of it are working toward fascism. We ain't there yet.

When you and I have to show our ID at the grocery store just to get food...then it is fascism. When we have to take a criminal background screening to get gasoline for our car...then it is fascism. When we not longer vote for any apparent difference in the two parties...yep then too.

[robcon]

29. There is not a hint of fascism in this country.

Those who see the U.S. as a fascist country trivialize the evil that is fascism.

The U.S. is a thriving democracy, with freedoms of speech, religion and the press that are the envy of most of the world.

[Beam Me Up]

31. how many millions of people does this country have to murder

to qualify?

[ZombieHorde]

36. The US could kill everyone and still not be fascist. nt

[robcon]

61. Your fantasies of fascism have crippled your cognitive powers, IMO.

Please ask a question about fascism, not your fantasies of murder.

[Rex]

34. There are quite a few people working on making America into

a corporate-fascist state.

[ZombieHorde]

37. Isn't a corporate-fascist state a contradiction? nt

[Rex]

73. No neither one depends on the other.

They can both exist together or apart. The state can be a nation or a small island, doesn't really matter.

[ZombieHorde]

81. In a fascist state, the state controls the corporations,

so a corporate fascist state seems meaningless. In a plutocracy, the wealthy, such as CEOs, control the state.

[Recursion]

109. Fascist regimes nationalized basically all large corporations

Oddly enough our complaint here is that the government isn't doing that.

[Enthusiast]

78. Our votes can't even be verified.

There is an ongoing voter suppression effort by one of the two major parties. There is very near complete control of TV and radio media with efforts underway to further compromise objectivity.

The "evil that is fascism" you speak of is the fully militarized WWII version of fascism complete with evil charismatic leaders. What you fail to recognize is there are degrees of fascism. And we are so close.

[Modern_Matthew]

32. Not sure, but we have plenty of smoke to go with our mirrors. nt

[grahamhgreen]

33. Yes. If you don't know it, you need to go visit New Zealand or something.

[ZombieHorde]

38. What do you think the word "fascist" means? nt

[grahamhgreen]

57. Mussulini's definition, "The merger of the state with corporate power."

[ZombieHorde]

80. The state executive had the power after the merger, not the CEOs.

The US is more of a plutocracy than a fascist state.

[SDuderstadt]

82. Maybe you should explain the difference for those...

who think everything to the right of them is "fascism".

[ZombieHorde]

83. I posted the definition in reply #15. nt

[SDuderstadt]

84. # 15 was about the definition of fascism....

I'm suggesting posting the definition of plutocracy.

[ZombieHorde]

85. Oh, good call.

Plutocracy

1. the rule or power of wealth or of the wealthy.
2. a government or state in which the wealthy class rules.
3. a class or group ruling, or exercising power or influence, by virtue of its wealth.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plutocracy

[grahamhgreen]

89. Yes, Plutocracratic and Fascistic!

[SDuderstadt]

92. Oh, bullshit...

where's the brutal suppression of the opposition?

[grahamhgreen]

127. Bradley Manning

[SDuderstadt]

128. Bradley Manning committed a crime...

dude.

[grahamhgreen]

132. No, he's being tortured for being accused of a crime.

[krabigirl]

35. It is well on it's way IMO.

[NorthCarolina]

41. The US is a plutarchy. nt

[Better Believe It]

47. Here's a good test to answer your question. Are you now in a concentration camp for posting?

[Nye Bevan]

87. He didn't reply! He's been dragged away and tortured by Obama's goons!

OMG! Fascism! OMG!

[Hippo_Tron]

49. No we're not Fascist or anything close to it, but we resemble an oligarchy in certain ways

A relatively small group of people have a disproportionate amount of power. While Fascism does involve corporate control of the state, it is a means to achieving nationalist ends. Corporations in the US aren't exercising influence in order to achieve any nationalist ends, they're exerting influence to make themselves richer.

[treestar]

50. No, the country is not fascist

It's just that most of the voters don't care. They are lazy. They let the selfish trick them into voting them into office.

[Better Believe It]

58. Or most people don't vote because they don't think they really have any choice or real political

power by simply casting a single vote.

[BOG PERSON]

55. is that a rhetorical question?

you can't have a fascist government without there being some kind of violent rupture in the bourgeois order, and if something like that were to occur, there would be no question about it.

[SDuderstadt]

59. You know...

every morning when I leave the house, I run to the car, then breathe a sigh of relief that I was not intercepted by the Gestapo or the S.A.

[robcon]

62. The whole thread is a fantasy of some people on DU

The U.S. has plenty of faults. Fascism is not one of them.

To think the U.S. is fascist is to trivialize fascism.

[Hannah Bell]

66. have you done something perceived as threatening to state power?

doubtful.

you might have a different opinion wearing someone else's shoes.

most germans didn't feel they were "unfree" under hitler or mussolini either, in the early years.

per most reports.

[SDuderstadt]

68. Only in the State of Kentucky..

I am pleased to report that I am on good terms with all the other states (and territories, as far as I know).

The thing with Kentucky will take some explaining.

[cali]

69. the word fascism gets tossed around here with gleeful abandon

we're not there yet.

[Hannah Bell]

70. when we're "there" it will be a bit late in the game for chatting at DU.

[cali]

77. sure, but lots of folks are claiming we're at full tilt fascism now.

and we're not.

[xchrom]

71. fascism? no -- but neither do i think we are a democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) 7,225,800 people at yearend 2009 were on probation, in jail or prison, or on parole — about 3.1% of adults in the U.S. resident population.<5><6> 2,297,400 were incarcerated in U.S. prisons and jails.<2><7> The U.S. incarceration rate was 748 inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents, or 0.75%.<7> The USA has the highest total documented prison and jail population in the world.<3><8><9>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison

Private companies in the United States operate 264 correctional facilities, housing almost 99,000 adult offenders.<13> Companies operating such facilities include the Corrections Corporation of America, the GEO Group, Inc, and Community Education Centers. The GEO Group was formerly known as Wackenhut Securities, and includes the Cornell Companies, which merged with GEO in 2010.

Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) has a capacity of more than 80,000 beds in 65 correctional facilities. The GEO Group operates 61 facilities with a capacity of 49,000 offender beds,<14>

Most privately run facilities are located in the southern and western portions of the United States and include both state and federal offenders.<13>


http://carloz.newsvine.com/_news/2011/03/27/6355442-tax-time-not-for-giant-corporations-the-top-ten-tax-avoiders-who-refuse-to-pay-up-and-share-the-sacrifice?threadId=3089384&commentId=52836003

Tax Time? Not for Giant Corporations - The Top Ten Tax Avoiders Who Refuse to Pay Up and Share the Sacrifice

Sanders compiled a list of...the 10 worst corporate income tax avoiders:

1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=12652

President Barack Obama today sent to Congress a proposed defense budget of $663.8 billion for fiscal 2010. The budget request for the Department of Defense (DoD) includes $533.8 billion in discretionary budget authority to fund base defense programs and $130 billion to support overseas contingency operations, primarily in Iraq and Afghanistan.

all of these figures and $ represent something that is seriously wrong in our country -- and no real attempt is being made to correct it. these things -- and others -- represent our very real oppression.

[NYC Liberal]

72. Yes, there is doubt. nt

[reformist2]

74. It is, but only because we voted for it. It can be reversed once we wake voters up.

Don't ask me how we do that. Perhaps we need to think a little bit like capitalists and ask ourselves why our "brand" isn't selling.

[Nye Bevan]

86. A good rule of thumb:

if people are able to freely debate on an internet discussion board whether or not we are living under "fascism", with no government interference, then we are not living under fascism.

If we were all sitting in a coffee house in Berlin in 1933 having this debate, what do you think would have happened?

[hifiguy]

90. I disagree somewhat

The plutocrats can tolerate something like DU or other lefty sites on the internet because of their limited reach and power. They control all of the media that the vast majority of people experience on a day-to-day process and can easily shout down voices of dissent. What other purpose is there, really, for Fux News?

Fascism has evolved. The television, radio and the internet - which they use too - can be manipulated to stifle and marginalize dissent more cheaply and thoroughly than secret police. Keeping people dumbed down is easier than building the camps, though don't think for a minute that ther are not emergency plans for that.

[hifiguy]

88. No. This is a fascist country

A "soft" form of fascism, but fascist nonetheless.

We are 14 for 14 on this list of leading indicators of fascism: http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

[themadstork]

91. That list is bullshit.

And the semicolon in this thread's title is making me fidget.

[Nye Bevan]

94. You're a punctuation fascist (nt)

[SDuderstadt]

93. That list is absolute nonsense...

beyond that, even if the criteria were accurate, people will simply strain to make the case each criteria is met. Using those tactics, I could make the case that every administration in recent memory is "fascist".

[Marr]

95. I don't think that's the most accurate descriptor, no.

Personally, I think we've just turned into a kind of corruptocracy. We're an empire run by cynical business interests and everything is for sale. We've developed a class of pseudo-aristocracy that is largely above the law, for whom the state acts as a money making machine while the broader population is inconsequential, or actual grist for the mills.

We're more like Hanoverian England than any of the fascist states of the last century.

[NeedleCast]

99. You have no idea what fascism is

[Recursion]

107. Calling the American right "fascist" is IMO as silly as calling the american left "socialist"

Neither are particularly descriptive of what we have today. Fascists were much more economically collectivist than today's right is, but incalculably more socially conservative.

[SDuderstadt]

110. Isn't it stupid and...

short-sighted?

[Recursion]

111. I mean, people need to vent, I guess

But it gets old to read. We've been a corporately-managed economy since FDR made it so, and we've been a more or less functioning democracy since before the revolution. While I don't like to throw cold water on people's high expectations of our polity, expecting a good deal more than what we have, particularly quickly, seems to ignore most of history. But more to the point, recycling nearly century-old political labels and applying them dubiously probably doesn't clarify anything.

[FlyByNight]

114. I've read/seen/heard Chris Hedges reference...

political philosopher, Sheldon Wolin, on what Wolin called "inverted totalitarianism".

Essentially, politics have become subordinate to economics. In the "classic" form, it's the other way around: economics subordinate to politics.

I think it's a very apt description.

[sarcasmo]

129. Corporate fascism.

[fascisthunter]

130. no doubt at all.... and the right wing hates it when the left brings this up

because they know it can resonate with the majority of americans.

[SDuderstadt]

131. I am a dyed-in-the-wool liberal..

and I cringe when anyone brings it up because it betrays a fundamental ignorance of basic definitions and embarrasses liberalism in the process.